COMLEX a joke?

[ERresponsible]

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Is this test what you'd want to the doctor working on your child to have to pass?

I just completed COMLEX Step 2 today and it felt so amateurish. The pictures were horrible plus there tons of non-medical epidemiology and law questions. It felt like half or less of the questions were real "medical" questions.

If I were a PD, there's NO way I would equate performance this test with USMLE. No calculator can equate State AAA Championships with the Olympics. If USMLE Step 2 (which I take next Monday) is anything like USMLEWorld it's a "real" medical test.

I get more and more disappointed with Osteopathy all the time, and the COMLEX testing sure doesn't help.

If you've taken both, I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Is this test what you'd want to the doctor working on your child to have to pass?

I just completed COMLEX Step 2 today and it felt so amateurish. The pictures were horrible plus there tons of non-medical epidemiology and law questions. It felt like half or less of the questions were real "medical" questions.

If I were a PD, there's NO way I would equate performance this test with USMLE. No calculator can equate State AAA Championships with the Olympics. If USMLE Step 2 (which I take next Monday) is anything like USMLEWorld it's a "real" medical test.

I get more and more disappointed with Osteopathy all the time, and the COMLEX testing sure doesn't help.

If you've taken both, I would love to hear your thoughts.

The exam is sufficient.

 

[RexMorganMD]

Is this test what you'd want to the doctor working on your child to have to pass?

I just completed COMLEX Step 2 today and it felt so amateurish. The pictures were horrible plus there tons of non-medical epidemiology and law questions. It felt like half or less of the questions were real "medical" questions.

If I were a PD, there's NO way I would equate performance this test with USMLE. No calculator can equate State AAA Championships with the Olympics. If USMLE Step 2 (which I take next Monday) is anything like USMLEWorld it's a "real" medical test.

I get more and more disappointed with Osteopathy all the time, and the COMLEX testing sure doesn't help.

If you've taken both, I would love to hear your thoughts.

If the comlex was comparable, I don't think people would bust their ass taking a grueling 9 hour test for the heck of it. People know the USMLE is a superior test, its also more difficult and requires a much more dedicated effort prepping for it. Even in FA for step 1 it hints around how the comlex asks questions that require less thought and 2nd/3rd order reasoning. So yeah, the COMLEX is the "back door". I think for osteopathy to step up and earn the respect of the medical world all DO's should take the USMLE, then they can take another side test for OMM skills if they choose to do so. Speaking of jokes - don't even get me started on the osteopathic journals.

 

[that dr. jack]

i have to agree. i took it today and again spent 8 hours trying not to laugh out loud at what passes for a serious assessment of our knowledge. the questions are so badly written i'm embarrassed by it.

sample question:

a female patient is sick. what is the diagnosis?

a. cancer
b. pneumonia
c. UTI
d. diabetes
e. prostatitis

it seems like the NBOME has a napoleon complex and it shows in both CE and PE- if we can do everything in less time as well as treat and diagnose, and answer questions without basic information like vital signs it must mean we're just as good as the MDs right? at this point in my career, i'm not sure i want to make a blind guess as to what a patient might have if i'm not given enough information to differentiate between the most common and the most dangerous. yet i found myself doing exactly that dozens of times today, and wondering what would happen if this was a real patient. there are things that any medical facility outside of antarctica would have standard, and yet we apparently don't need to know them? i would rather have relevant lab values than a string of outdated buzz words, because the latter is not going to be there at 3am in the ED.

this is especially sad because i don't hate Osteopathic medicine and don't think this is what our schools taught us to do. we are better than this. i think we should all take this as motivation to do well in our careers, take control of the AOA/NBOME and make some serious changes, like writing some good questions for future generations of DOs.

 

[ozzie20]

If the comlex was comparable, I don't think people would bust their ass taking a grueling 9 hour test for the heck of it. People know the USMLE is a superior test, its also more difficult and requires a much more dedicated effort prepping for it. Even in FA for step 1 it hints around how the comlex asks questions that require less thought and 2nd/3rd order reasoning. So yeah, the COMLEX is the "back door". I think for osteopathy to step up and earn the respect of the medical world all DO's should take the USMLE, then they can take another side test for OMM skills if they choose to do so. Speaking of jokes - don't even get me started on the osteopathic journals.

Coming from an osteopathic school, i have to agree with this one. I think comlex should be completely shut down and eliminated. USMLE should be the standard for ALL medical schools, regardless of what kind of school it is. an IMG in order to practice in the USA has to pass the USMLE, why shouldn't the osteopaths?

I also like your suggestion about the side test for OMM skills. It would give osteopathic schools more justification in having a side OMM board exam rather than to randomly throw it in the comlex exams.

 

[homeboy]

Coming from an osteopathic school, i have to agree with this one. I think comlex should be completely shut down and eliminated. USMLE should be the standard for ALL medical schools, regardless of what kind of school it is. an IMG in order to practice in the USA has to pass the USMLE, why shouldn't the osteopaths?

I also like your suggestion about the side test for OMM skills. It would give osteopathic schools more justification in having a side OMM board exam rather than to randomly throw it in the comlex exams.

i agree with shutting down the COMLEX. Step 1 was horrible.

I'll be taking USMLE2 soon, and am much more concerned with those scores than the COMLEX2 next month.
i'll post how it went.

 

[RexMorganMD]

Administering the COMLEX doesn't even make sense, considering that DO's are expected to know the same pathophys and basic sciences as MD's. Why not just give the same test to everybody, instead of wasting resources on some crap substandard test? It would be much less of a hassle to just have everyone take the USMLE rather than re-vamp the COMLEX. OMM can be tested in the DO version of the step II CS.

edit- Maybe the reason for the comlex is to raise funds for the AOA, and they would hate to see that money go to the NBME?

 

[delicatefade]

i have to agree. i took it today and again spent 8 hours trying not to laugh out loud at what passes for a serious assessment of our knowledge. the questions are so badly written i'm embarrassed by it.

sample question:

a female patient is sick. what is the diagnosis?

a. cancer
b. pneumonia
c. UTI
d. diabetes
e. prostatitis

it seems like the NBOME has a napoleon complex and it shows in both CE and PE- if we can do everything in less time as well as treat and diagnose, and answer questions without basic information like vital signs it must mean we're just as good as the MDs right? at this point in my career, i'm not sure i want to make a blind guess as to what a patient might have if i'm not given enough information to differentiate between the most common and the most dangerous. yet i found myself doing exactly that dozens of times today, and wondering what would happen if this was a real patient. there are things that any medical facility outside of antarctica would have standard, and yet we apparently don't need to know them? i would rather have relevant lab values than a string of outdated buzz words, because the latter is not going to be there at 3am in the ED.

this is especially sad because i don't hate Osteopathic medicine and don't think this is what our schools taught us to do. we are better than this. i think we should all take this as motivation to do well in our careers, take control of the AOA/NBOME and make some serious changes, like writing some good questions for future generations of DOs.

Just took COMLEX II today - I read this post a couple weeks ago, but boy did it ring true during my exam today. I cannot begin to tell you how many questions presented a history and physical for which I was able to narrow down the diagnosis to two choices, without looking at the possible answers.

But that was it. No labs, no vital signs, nothing. I know we are not supposed to diagnose lab values, but it seemed like they were unwilling to provide information that any normal physician would obtain before rendering a diagnosis. They wanted you to distinguish two disease processes based on H+P alone, and many times they only listed signs/symptoms that were common to the two diseases you were most likely to be thinking.

Unbelievable. Based on my 3rd year rotations, most of which were done along side MD students from various schools, I felt extremely well prepared by my school. But this exam is a disgrace to our profession.

 

[delicatefade]

To make it even better --- there was a question on my exam about medical treatment of bleeding esophageal varices. They basically wanted to know the mechanism of action of a certain medication. I just did a search of the literature and found three recent articles that state that currently, the mechanism of action of this medication is unknown. Nice.

Thanks NBOME,
Love, delicatefade

 

[NewRawTick]

Holy crap.

I agree with all your previous comments -- I was so ticked by the lack of info. I had a question with an image and all they ask was "2 y.o. with this rash. What is it?" Seriously? Too bad they don't allow crystal balls into the testing room, but I doubt that would've helped either.

Sure, make comments on the questions for the NBOME (if they even read those) -- but those seconds get taken away from our exam time, so is it even worth it? On one of the questions that asked for the next step, I commented and said, "The next appropriate step would be to obtain a complete history and vital signs." I'm sure most of us would've gotten a more comprehensive H+P after our first week of med school than what this test gave us to jump off of. Frickin' ey. You ran away with my money, NBOME...again.

If you're only taking COMLEX, don't bother using USMLEWorld. I'm so glad I used it for my USMLE prep, though.

*sigh*

-N

 

[indymed]

Hold on, so USMLEworld isn't good for COmlex? I had that feeling, I am learning so much from USMLEWORLD but there is no way that stuff is gonna be on COMLEX. So Qbank is enough for the exam? Holy crap, why am I torturing myself, why aren't I doing kaplan qbank more?

 

[NewRawTick]

Hold on, so USMLEworld isn't good for COmlex? I had that feeling, I am learning so much from USMLEWORLD but there is no way that stuff is gonna be on COMLEX. So Qbank is enough for the exam? Holy crap, why am I torturing myself, why aren't I doing kaplan qbank more?

To clarify...
UW is a great *learning* tool. It will not, however, help you with the COMLEX question format (what question format?). You already spent the money, use it like you would another book, like Secrets or FA, but don't expect pertinent info like vitals or past med hx to show up on COMLEX.

-N

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Have taken all three USMLE's and I/II of the COMLEX. There is no comparison between the series. What a shame.

 

[nykka3]

so... do the AOA and NBOME have plans to either get rid of COMLEX and just use USMLE and maybe some OMM adjunct test...or they just don't care or have a clue that the test is subpar?

 

[RockfordWF]

Hold on, so USMLEworld isn't good for COmlex? I had that feeling, I am learning so much from USMLEWORLD but there is no way that stuff is gonna be on COMLEX. So Qbank is enough for the exam? Holy crap, why am I torturing myself, why aren't I doing kaplan qbank more?

All I used was Kaplan QBook, First Aid, and Savarese. Anything more for Step II is overstudying...

 

[delicatefade]

USMLEWorld is almost useless for COMLEX. You would do better by spending 20-30 minutes reading something each night during your third year. Read a NEJM article, flip through American Family Physician, get Swansons. Anything. I think that would prepare you better for COMLEX than spending 4 weeks doing Kaplan and USMLEWorld like I did.

I sure learned a lot from the Qbanks, but very little of it translated into doing better on COMLEX. There was just so much random stuff on there that I NEVER would have studied even if I had taken an extra 4 weeks. Plus they leave out so much information that in a way, USMLEWorld puts you at a disadvantage. At least with their questions, they provide you with enough information, and then you just know it or you don't. With COMLEX, they leave out just enough information that even though you're pretty sure you know the right answer, you still can't really figure it out with the information given and you feel like you are guessing half the time.

 

[surrender903]

this is depressing indeed.

 

[ozzie20]

I'm probably in that category of "overstudying for Comlex 2"

What i did: all the kaplan videos, including peds, obgyn, and surgery, not just the internal medicine. All the kaplan books, about 5 hours of goljan step 2, all the kaplan Qbook questions (about 800, the entire book basically) and then the entire USMLEworld q bank. I'd say covering all that, there really was only a handful of questions that i had no idea on. To be honest, i think the UsmleWorld qbank was helpful not in giving me the direct answer to questions word for word, but it was an excellent adjunct to studying with the kaplan videos.

I don't know how well or poorly i did, but i felt better coming out of that test than i did for step 1. Its not that the comlex questions were particularly vague and didn't give you enough information, its that you had to know the diagnosis based more on physical findings than lab values. I think thats where comlex differs from USMLE. the comlex uses the non-eponym words for things, and they used the physical findings to lead you towards an answer on a test. Then to trick you they'd give a history that contradicts the physical findings, but the basic principle remains the same, don't worry about the patient's risk factors/history of things as much as their individual presentation AT THAT MOMENT. The comlex tested much more first order questions, which is also why it was more difficult to prepare for given the usmleworld and kaplan questions which stress mostly second/third order questions. I will agree with everyone else that posted, the legal questions are neither here nor there, they do not have a place in step 2, that should be more step 3 material, or intern/resident boards, when legal matters are taken more into consideration. the average 3rd year should be focusing on symptoms, treatment, and diagnosis, not random laws that won't apply to them and may not be relevent when they're in the field.

 

[PayingMyDues]

I remember the crapy pictures on step 1 comlex...and I know that multiple students called and wrote letters to NBOME...yet we still have this crap again on step 2 and lets not talk about the other bs we have to deal with...how do you expect to treat patients without labs or vitals..maybe we could just wave our hand over the patient and dont forget to close your eyes..and come up with a dx...thats being a DO I guess...

Here is the sad part...we all complain about this to each other and on these forums...yet nothing is going to change and the "business" will still con't...The only way to change the system is to shock it... all of us need to come together and refuse to take this bs exam until changes are made...dont let me go on about the PE exam...

 

[HoodyHoo]

Hold on, so USMLEworld isn't good for COmlex? I had that feeling, I am learning so much from USMLEWORLD but there is no way that stuff is gonna be on COMLEX. So Qbank is enough for the exam? Holy crap, why am I torturing myself, why aren't I doing kaplan qbank more?

I would say that NOTHING is good enough for this exam. It was the biggest waste of 6 hours of my life.......it left you assuming a lot about certain clinical situations.

example: 8 year old with forearm rash in the summer, what's the diagnosis????

my answer: WTF

 

[indymed]

So did you all feel like you had enough time for each section or were you rushed? Also, having taken the exam, what exactly would you do over? Also, how would you study OMM knowing what you know? Thanks, just trying to take some of the randomness out of this, although I know it probably won't matter.

 

[delicatefade]

I had plenty of time for each section.

I can't think of anything I would do differently. Honestly, more time studying would not have helped because I would either:

a. still have not studied the random stuff they expected us to know
b. been prepared for the sheer vagueness of the questions

Just know your OMM, know sacrum backwards and forwards, don't focus on specific techniques, and hope you learned enough in the clinic/hospital during 3rd year.

 

[HoodyHoo]

So did you all feel like you had enough time for each section or were you rushed? Also, having taken the exam, what exactly would you do over? Also, how would you study OMM knowing what you know? Thanks, just trying to take some of the randomness out of this, although I know it probably won't matter.[/Q]

def had enough time for each section. I got done about 2 hrs early. I wouldn't do anything over b/c I don't think anything would have helped. I agree that usmle world is completely worthless for comlex. Also agreed that you should spend a good few days on OMM to at least secure those easy points.

The exam wasn't all that tough. tons of easy questions. it's just those obscure questions that get on your nerves

 

[AbuJadenDO]

how many cranial questions did u guys have?

 

[ozzie20]

overall i had about 1/2 hour to spare on each question. The questions were vague. I don't know how well or poorly i did, but i think that they gave you enough information per question to get the question right if you knew the basic physical exam hints they gave.

As for the OMM, come on, if you passed step 1 omm, you'll pass step 2 omm. They really can't change the questions too much or modify them too much, its not like the pathophys of OMT changes that significantly from one year to the next. If you know the green book like you did step 1, you'll know it for step 2. The questions are pretty much exactly the same.

 

[RockfordWF]

how many cranial questions did u guys have?

2, but one was condylar compression & newborn suckling, which everyone knows.....

 

[JayZee]

how many cranial questions did u guys have?

None.

 

[indymed]

Did you guys order the practice questions from NBOME? Are they at all representative of the actual exam? I have noticed alot of questions are pporly written, and are flat out wrong. This concerns me, I have put so much time into this. These practice questions are awful.

 

[AbuJadenDO]

Did you guys order the practice questions from NBOME? Are they at all representative of the actual exam? I have noticed alot of questions are pporly written, and are flat out wrong. This concerns me, I have put so much time into this. These practice questions are awful.

I've also noticed some wrong answers but i think the book is dated 2002 or so on the cover and you know the questions are a few years older than the publishing date so take that into account when their clinical guidelines seem outdated in that book

i thought it was good practice but what do i know, i havent taken comlex yet

 

[Richie Truxillo]

Wasn't as bad as I expected though some of the pictures sucked. Had a boatload of cranial questions though. 🙁 I'm still bleery-eyed from the test. I have no clue how I did though since they give you so little data and sometimes have more than one "Correct" answer. They almost make you assume parts of history at times I feel.

Oh well, at least it's over! Now my ERAS awaits.

 

[AbuJadenDO]

SO Dr truxillo
do u think the ob, gyn, peds chapters of secrets were enough for those topics and green book alone for omm?

 

[Richie Truxillo]

I thought the OB and the GYN was adequate. Could have used a bit more in the pediatrics department. Had a boatload of STD questions and secrets was spot on.

I thought the green book was good for OMM. Viscerosomatic reflexes were the most highly tested followed by cranial. Questions like: "A kid has chronic otitis media, which one of the cranial bones is most likely restricted in motion"

 

[AbuJadenDO]

I thought the OB and the GYN was adequate. Could have used a bit more in the pediatrics department. Had a boatload of STD questions and secrets was spot on.

I thought the green book was good for OMM. Viscerosomatic reflexes were the most highly tested followed by cranial. Questions like: "A kid has chronic otitis media, which one of the cranial bones is most likely restricted in motion"

doesn't sound too bad to be honest