COMLEX for Gen surg

[vizdo]

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Hey guys, so I'm in my third year of med school and just realized that I really wanted to do General surgery. My comlex 1 score is 525, and my class rank is average. I didn't take the USMLE since I didn't realize I wanted to do surgery before.
Is that score too low for GS? What are your suggestions in order for me to match into a GS program? What are some ways that I can improve my chances/ tips on audition rotations?

Thanks!!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think at this point your main things to do is to do well on step 2 and to do audition rotations are aoa sites as your chances of matching ACGME GS with a 525 are probably under 20%.

 

[Mad Jack]

Given that the average NRMP matched DO student in GS had a 609, and the average unmatched student had a 536, I'd say your scores are too low. The only way you'd stand a chance of matching is if you took Step 1 and blew it out of the water, we're talking 245-250ish or higher, and had some research to boot. Only way that's really feasible is if you're either really good at time management or you take a research year between MS3 and MS4.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think at this point your main things to do is to do well on step 2 and to do audition rotations are aoa sites as your chances of matching ACGME GS with a 525 are probably under 20%.

AOA GS won't exist when OP is matching in 2018- all GS programs basically have to have prelim accred by then, which effectively makes them ACGME.

 

[Rekt]

AOA GS won't exist when OP is matching in 2018- all GS programs basically have to have prelim accred by then, which effectively makes them ACGME.

Sorry to hijack, but how soon can MD students apply to legacy AOA spots after the AOA residencies apply for ACGME accreditation?

 

[Mad Jack]

Sorry to hijack, but how soon can MD students apply to legacy AOA spots after the AOA residencies apply for ACGME accreditation?

As soon as they're granted initial-accred status. For some programs this is immediate, for some there is a pre-accred status that is temporarily granted. If no progress is made toward ACGME initial-accred status or the program appears to not be acting in good faith, pre-accred status can be revoked.

All AOA GS programs have to, as of last year, be at least initial-accred, and making sufficient progress toward ACGME accreditation to not have that revoked. So my bet is, by 2018, all of them will have either sunk or swam, having lost their accreditation or achieved initial accred status.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

AOA GS won't exist when OP is matching in 2018- all GS programs basically have to have prelim accred by then, which effectively makes them ACGME.

I think that average will obviously be modified given that plenty of AOA programs will be added into the fold. Also I sincerely doubt their applying student populations will significant change. It's not like ppl will be like, oh hey heres this program I've never heard about so lets apply there or that the program suddenly will stop considering ppl who have auditioned there more highly.

So clearly this guy probably isn't going to have an extremely high chance of matching, but I think if he plays it smart I think hey may get some love from former aoa.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think that average will obviously be modified given that plenty of AOA programs will be added into the fold. Also I sincerely doubt their applying student populations will significant change. It's not like ppl will be like, oh hey heres this program I've never heard about so lets apply there or that the program suddenly will stop considering ppl who have auditioned there more highly.

So clearly this guy probably isn't going to have an extremely high chance of matching, but I think if he plays it smart I think hey may get some love from former aoa.

There's not a lot of AOA GS programs to begin with, and a lot of people will just look at ERAS and have no clue in regard to the program's osteopath heritage. With how competitive GS has become, I have no doubt that their applications will skyrocket.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

There's not a lot of AOA GS programs to begin with, and a lot of people will just look at ERAS and have no clue in regard to the program's osteopath heritage. With how competitive GS has become, I have no doubt that their applications will skyrocket.

MD GS isn't that competitive though. It's constantly regarded as low-medium competitiveness. So I doubt a lot of ppl are going to start washing into AOA GS that aren't already poor applicants, i.e USMD 220s probably have near 100% match rate as is.

 

[Mad Jack]

MD GS isn't that competitive though. It's constantly regarded as low-medium competitiveness. So I doubt a lot of ppl are going to start washing into AOA GS that aren't already poor applicants, i.e USMD 220s probably have near 100% match rate as is.

GS has the sixth lowest match rate of the 21 in Charting Outcomes. It's not highly competitive, but it's not not competitive. And that's excluding the hundreds of FMGs and IMGs that'll be applying.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

GS has the sixth lowest match rate of the 21 in Charting Outcomes. It's not highly competitive, but it's not not competitive. And that's excluding the hundreds of FMGs and IMGs that'll be applying.

90% of US MDs with a score between 220 to 230 match GS. 70% matched with a 210 to 220. The people who will be applying to AOA GS from the MD side are not going to be displacing DOs en mass.

 

[vizdo]

Thanks for the replies guys! I haven't rotated through OB, but I think I might like that as well, since it's got a surgery mix to it. Would 525 suffice for that you think? Or would it be about as competitive as gen surg?

 

[Mad Jack]

Thanks for the replies guys! I haven't rotated through OB, but I think I might like that as well, since it's got a surgery mix to it. Would 525 suffice for that you think? Or would it be about as competitive as gen surg?

OB is substantially less competitive. Average DO scores on COMLEX 1 were the low 590s in OB. 20/30 people with scores in the 500-550 range matched, but it is unknown how many of those had Step 1 scores, so we can't say for sure how many applied with only COMLEX.

 

[Mad Jack]

90% of US MDs with a score between 220 to 230 match GS. 70% matched with a 210 to 220. The people who will be applying to AOA GS from the MD side are not going to be displacing DOs en mass.

My money is on DOs losing about 40% of their DO GS spots (of which there are only 155 to begin with), and non-DO graduates taking around a third to half of what is left. So in a best case scenario, we go from 155 AOA GS DOs per year down to 93 spots, with about 60 going to DOs and 33 going to MDs and IMGs. That's a net loss of 93 DO surgeons per year if I'm correct.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

My money is on DOs losing about 40% of their DO GS spots (of which there are only 155 to begin with), and non-DO graduates taking around a third to half of what is left. So in a best case scenario, we go from 155 AOA GS DOs per year down to 93 spots, with about 60 going to DOs and 33 going to MDs and IMGs. That's a net loss of 93 DO surgeons per year if I'm correct.

I'll say 40% is possible, but not in 2018 and probably not even in 2020.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'll say 40% is possible, but not in 2018 and probably not even in 2020.

Only 37 of the 49 AOA programs applied for ACGME acceptance. That's a loss of over 20% of programs right off the bat. I have a feeling some of the remainder won't make the cut, no pun intended.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Only 37 of the 49 AOA programs applied for ACGME acceptance. That's a loss of over 20% of programs right off the bat. I have a feeling some of the remainder won't make the cut, no pun intended.

I think another 5 probably will apply last day or something. But we will see. I think GS will progressively become more and more out of reach for most DO students though. But whether it's going to suddenly drop off hard, well, I have my doubts.