COMLEX I and Anesthesia

[Halcyon]

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[IN2BATE]

Hey:

Some programs last year would only interview peoplw with over 600. Some programs dont know what the hell to do with comlex. You have to go to program websites and see if they mention DO..........this is usually a good sign.

I graduated NSU 2003 and out of like 8 people who matched MD gas, I was the only one with a USMLE score.

Since it is getting competitive, you should look at DO programs as backup. (there are only like 10 in the country).

Anyway.........................people in my class matched:

Univ of Maryland
SUNY Downstate
Univ of Arkansas
Univ of Miami
ARMY (texas)
MAYO Jacksonville
Largo Fl/Suncoast (DO)


A couple of years ago people from Nova were going to top programs, but the last two years have been tough.

Hope that helps!
IN2BATE

 

[Halcyon]

!

 

[IN2BATE]

no problem...................glad i helped somebody. Good idea with backups.................................they werent necessary before, but i think they are now. My prediction is when MD programs get competitive like gas now, they tend to start putting DO and IMG applicants on the back burner. But, you should be fine.


Any other ?s, feel free

 

[Halcyon]

)

 

[Molly Maquire]

HI,

I just got my COMLEX 1 scores back and I got a 629/93.

I don't know how competitive that will be when I apply. Could you give me some info on those east coast DO gas programs?

Thanks.

 

[IN2BATE]

Mollyand all elese):

with that score you should be fine, unless they demand USMLE.
East coast spots for Do's....................

I suggest:
Temple Univ
Univ of Miami
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook
Univ Maryland

I know these take DO's per my comrads. Others in Phily are possible, but PCOM students usually seem to get them. NYC will be very tough, I had very little luck.......................all the programs there averaged 650+ applicants (NYU/St Lukes/Cornell/Columbia/St. Vincents?etc).......plus very expensive to interview this area.

Ive heard California isnt to great as a whole for DO applicants.

But make sure you go for some reach programs (UPENN or Boston Programs for example), you never know.

Besides doing electives at places you consider going to and trying to get a letter/ I would bring your score report with you b/c I heard MD programs only get three digit score not percentile, and with that percentile it would look very impressive to show them....................I know some people this happened to.


Good Luck

 

[IN2BATE]

I dont know much about DO programsbecause there really was no reason to go to one until now.........................DO's were getting into places like Harvard a few years ago.

I looked at them for backup b/c I was average Comlex/Avg USMLE.......

and I know there are about 10 programs. You must check which ones are linked b/c those spots go to the interns who matched for linked internship/residency.

Ive heard Doctors Hospital in Ohio is pretty strong for a DO program.

POH (Michigan should be decent also)

Speak to you later guys

IN2BATE
(pgy1) Future Gas Passer

"Hypochondria is the only disease I dont have"

 

[IN2BATE]

Advice.......................


Oh yeah; with ERAS apply on the 1st day if you can..........this will help, the earlier the better.

Also, MAKE sure you constantly check your EMAIL every day!

Some programs can write you immediately, some will never write back, some wont do interviewing until Dec.......................among all this, you have to coordinate travel and deal with school.

If you can spare a few bucks, dont be afraid to apply to many programs. I know people who applied up to 40 last year, while others only used the 10 allowed by the basic sign up fees.

Your Group Leader
DO DO..........Its OFF TO WORK I GO!
IN2BATE

 

[Stump]

How about a COMLEX I score of 588/85. Will that qualify for MD gas programs? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Halcyon]

IN2BATE,

Thank you so much for all the info. and help. My scores are similar to yours as well. I may have missed it, but where will you be doing your gas residency? And congratulations too!

Halcyon

 

[IN2BATE]

stump..................youll be fine. Thats a good score. Although, there are some programs thatn ive been told only consider COMLEX >600............for some reason, some directors know how to interpret it some have no idea. Bring it with you so they can see percentile...........that might help. You might not get Ivys, but I predict youll be fine.

Halcyon......................apply to as many programs as you can afford, or/and realistically will consider going to.

I matched NY Medical College (Westchester,NY). I know they took some DO's besides me. People were scared b/c they got put on probation due to the down years where less desirable applicants didnt complete steps 1/2/3........and then couldnt sit for boards which counts as failure against the program. But, they had just brought in a very famous chairman who everyone has great expectations for.

Personally I wanted NYU or St. Lukes but I dont think they took any DO's..............I rotated at NYU as did my friend from school who is going to SUNY Downstate(great program,but horrible area) and both had great rotations...........but no luck for spot I guess.

MY personal feeling is go anywhere you can match allopathic, b/c I did a lot of research and couldnt find out much about the DO programs.....................they all seem pretty small and limites with things like trauma/transplant. However, I never knew it was gonna be so competitive b/c the years before me were not.

Unfortunately...............timing seems to be everything, as things on medicine cycle. Rite now, everyone is on the radiology and anesthesia bandwagon so just hope for the best. We didnt have too many for gas in my school, but some schools had 30-40 per class trying..........thats crazy.

IN2BATE


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While on day call, I write to you my friends................praying in all forms that a code doesnt occur! (although I am in the mood to intubate)

 

[drfeelgood]

I talked to a resident 3 weeks ago from the Brigham (when i was taking the anesthesia in-service exam) and he told me that there are 4 DOs there and that there are several this year at MGH. But again.. things might tighten up for DOs as more US Allopathic med students go gas.

I'm the only DO gas resident at Tufts-New England Medical Center. I think there is another DO who is doing Radiation Oncolgy here....

About the Riverside Program... I ran into a CA-1 from that program 2 years ago or so... and he told me that the in-house rotations there sucked big time. Dr. MA, the director, tries very hard, but a fair amount of attendings there are incompetent and unwilling to teach. They do Peds at Childrens Hosp. LA (which is great) and SICU at Harbor UCLA.

in2bate.... Our Peds. Fellow graduated from Westchester, NYMC last year. I think she was the chief resident there. She told me it was a brutal program, but didn't go into more detail.

About COMLEX vs USLME.... I did poorly on COMLEX 1 b/c I didn't study...so I took USMLE step 1 in the middle of MSIII and did much better. I would just take both because you're already paying an arm and a leg for Med School. What's an extra $350?? ...a drop in the bucket.
And I don't buy that argument... If they don't accept the Comlex then they don't respect DOs and so I shouldn't even bother applying there. That's BS!!! They (the directors) just want to compare apples with apples. Not apples vs. oranges. (No disrespect to all my DO homies...)

 

[IN2BATE]

Dr Feelgood:
I think you got in just at the peak of change, but congrats on Boston spot. I applied to the Tufts program last year in the match and they sent me an email saying unless you had USMLE 1 AND 2 with 90 or greater, you didnt make the interview cutoff due to so many applications.
In the past few years, I know that Harvard did take Do's......2 or 3 years ago they accepted three from the same NYCOM class, which are probably the ones you were talking about; but I dont think theyll be taking currently with so many AOA applicants (not DO AOA.LOL).

Remember that CA1's this year atually applied about 2 years ago............there is a big difference now although thats when anesthesia started becoming competitive again.

Anyway...............thanks for the input, and just wanted everyone to be aware of the real deal.

IN2BATE

 

[IN2BATE]

Addendum to feelgood info:

I took USMLE 1 and 2.............................they are no longer $350. They have gone up to $420 fee for step 1 or 2. At this price, make sure you study.

Dont frown..........................as an intern im taking COMLEX 3 in December, it costs $535 to take; luckily my internship has agreed to reimburse us.

Just something for my DO Jr's to look forward to!


"ugh....................to the next person to ask me what a DO is? Well it is a chiropractor with a prescription pad!

IN2BATE

 

[drfeelgood]

HA HA...

I get asked that at least once a week.

 

[OldManDave]

DOs & gas seem to be a hot topic these days. Whilst on the interview/application circuit this last cycle, I encounter 1 program that was snooty about interviewee selection: Univ of VA. I had actually visited the place & was quite impressed...I have good friend there who is a surgical resident & she loves the place. However, when I applied, I was placed in the "hold for an interview" pile. They sent out invites only to folks with USMLEs >240 or COMLEX > 90th %-ile (those are the numbers as best as I recall them). Initially I was disappointed, but then I realized that I was not too hip on training in place that place so much value on a single parameter of my huge application file.

My USMLE step 1 was the average for that administration...something like 210~213 or whatever...my COMLEX was 72nd %-ile. Since I was uncertain as to how guage my net competitiveness, I defaulted on applying to a "large" number of programs - 25 - in order to hopefully land that magical 10 interviews. I was far more successful than anticipated & ended up with 4 rejections, 17 invitations & 4 no replies. I interviewed at some very highly rated programs: Dartmouth, Univ of Rochester, Penn St (I did not apply to any of the NYC or Boston programs - did not want to live there) & Univ of FL...I turned down an invitation to UChicago.

So, even with not stellar numbers, I was very successful. I matched to Dartmouth - my first choice. The point of my reply is not to toot my own horn or to instill a false sense of security into those with 'big numbers'. My intent is to heavily emphasize that your board scores, while a very important screening parameter, is not your application in toto.

The initial interview invitation screen is generally comprised of your board scores, your 3rd year clerkship grades, your CV (the ERAS thingie you fill out) & your letters of recommendation. It is the SUM of these elements that get you invited, wait-listed or rejected.

Residency directors, in most cases, are not just out hunting bright boys & girls to make their name look pretty. Pragmatically, the faculty, staff & house officers will have to spend many looooooooooooooooong hours with you over the next x-number of years. Once you have demonstrated the capacity to succeed under the rigors of med school, be a self-initiated learner & that you have the intellectual capacity to be a physician...the things that ring most important in their ears is: Can we all get along with him/her for the duration of the program? Will this candidate be an asset or a boat anchor? Will my ass chap at the end of a call shift merely by being around this person?

So, yes - board scores are critically important. However, do not over-focus on boards to the point that you neglect the other equally critical aspects of your application. Just like when you applied to med school, an MCAT >35 + a GPA > 3.6 did not guarantee you a seat...high board scores does not guarantee an awesome residency slot.

Lastly, forget about all of the MD vs DO hype. If a program truly seeks to have the best people that it can attract, then that is a moot point. I suspect that many DO-grads-to-be attempt to hide behind this alleged controversy. It is far easier to point a finger at some extraneous, uncontrollable variable than to simply accept the fact that they did not do what they had to do to be the most competitive applicant that they could be. That is a harse statement, but I have unfortunately seem too many DO students attempt to hide behind this pitiful excuse for underperformance. Such BS minimizes the accomplishments of the other students who get out there, bust their asses & achieve what is allegedly unobtainable.

The things you want are within your grasp if you are willing to honor the commitment, make the sacrifices and do the work...it is your decision.

 

[UNEOSTEO]

Old Man Dave.....

Did you do an elective rotation @ Dartmouth?

 

[OldManDave]

No, I did not. I had been scheduled to do one, but my wife became pregnant & there were some minor, thank GOD, early on problems. So, with >2mos notice, I asked them to cancel my slot. I was concerned that this might be the kiss of death, as Dartmouth was an early on frontrunner on my list (as were Univ of Rochester, Penn St, UVA & Univ of FL). However, as is quite obvious, I was not penalized. Of course, I had a waaaaaay legit rationale as to why I had to withdraw from the elective too.

I did do an elective stint at Univ of Rochester. This is also an extremely awesome program!

When it came down to making my final choices, I had to really deliberate b/t Dartmouth & Univ of Rochester. Both of them are superb, top-level programs that provided exactly what I was seeking in a program: university affiliated, high-acuity, high-variety, high-volume exposure but w/o having to live in a megapolis city. The key element for me that pushed Dartmouth over the top to be my #1 was their adjunct residency offering of "Medical Leadership & Preventive Med". That totally sold me on Dartmouth.

 

[seattledoc]

Just curious,
Why does anybody take the Comlex exam?

It sounds like not all programs will accept it, correct?
It costs $$.
People have mentioned that some PD's don't know how to read the scores...

Why not just take the USMLE only?
Is the Comlex exam a requirement for graduation from DO schools?
Just curious, we don't really have any DO schools out here to my knowledge.

 

[seattledoc]

Just curious,
Why does anybody take the Comlex exam?

It sounds like not all programs will accept it, correct?
It costs $$.
People have mentioned that some PD's don't know how to read the scores...

Why not just take the USMLE only?
Is the Comlex exam a requirement for graduation from DO schools?
Just curious, we don't really have any DO schools out here to my knowledge.

 

[OldManDave]

To my knowledge, all of the DO schools require that you sit parts 1 & 2...KCOM requires that you pass them both too. So, since all states accept COMLEX for licensure, and the overwhelming majority of programs accept COMLEX w/o penalty - the question becomes: Why take the USMLE? To do so only doubles the number of exams, cost and stress factor. Of course, I cannot speak for everyone, but I found there to be no disadvantage what-so-ever applying with COMLEX scores in lieu of USMLE scores. Sure, there may be a selection of places out there who may discount you for COMLEX scores...but if you present them with a top-notch application otherwise, then I cannot imagine a program writing you off simply for submitting one exam over another. I think most of this myth is exactly that - a myth.

 

[CaliGirlDO]

Personally, I decided to take the COMLEX because I had a few hundred dollars laying around and a couple days in my life that I had nothing to do so I thought, hey why not sit through 2 days of bubbling in scantron forms?

All joking aside....COMLEX is not only required for graduation but in order to be licensed as a DO and a physician in whatever state you choose to practice you need to have passed all steps of the COMLEX...just like passing the USMLE in order to be licensed for MD's.

The real issue essentially becomes why do DO's have to take the USMLE when all it does is help get us residency spots. It's not like it's a cheap test, and even though there are differences in the testing style between USMLE and COMLEX, essentially it tests the same information.

Personally, I feel program directors need to stop discriminating and learn how to interpret the COMLEX. Fortunately, in anesthesia with the shortage of applicants a few years ago, many program directors were forced to learn how to interpret COMLEX because they would rather take a US DO than FMGs at that time due to funding reasons. Consequently, there are more programs relatively in anesthesiology that do understand how to interpret your scores on the exam. But those discriminatory programs who feel more comfortable having a USMLE score from the applicant do exist and that's the reason DO's ultimately still believe they need to take twice as many exams vs. our MD counterparts.'

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Just reviving an old thread that is very interesting to me (4th year DO future gas doc). I posted a thread about my USMLE Step 2 experience if anycore cares to look here

Arch