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[RoyalAlbatross]

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Hi there. I have browsed this forum before and this is the first time I'm posting!

I am also a non-US trained dentist. I am currently in a Master's program while completing my certificate in AEGD.

I didn't plan on staying in the US long-term. It all changed when I met my current fiancee and we decided to get married! I prepared and sat both of NBDE Parts 1 and 2 last year and passed them all (whilst in the AEGD program).

I have been searching for ways to get a dental licence in the US and, like the rest of you reading this, have found it to be rather amusing and down-right ridiculuous to some point. Anyway, the result was that a US degree (by way of an advanced standing program) would be a secure way to go if I wanted a full time private practice position.

However, I don't see myself as a private practitioner. I came over to the US for the AEGD and a MS in order to become an academic and researcher (plus 40-50% of private practice time to support me & my expensive habits). I am aware that some states allow teaching licences so that an "internationally-trained" (whatever this "international" implies) dentist could secure a faculty position and treat patients as if he/she was in the private practice.

I wanted secure gurantee of income, hence I decided to apply for advanced standing where I am (would rather not disclose where though! sorry folks...). I have seen that in some cases, the advanced standing committee only required the applicant to repeat 1 year rather than 2 years, so that was the beauty of it. However, when I contacted them, their reply was it was only available according to space availability and there was no gurantee whether I would be offered even 1 or 2 or 3 years of advanced standing! Even then, I shouldn't expect to get back a realistic answer until Spring next year!

Clearly, this was not a good news. I will be getting married this November and the MS/AEGD program will end next Summer... I really wanted to be sure what I would be doing after AEGD! So I applied to UPenn's PASS program and they instantly (quite literally!) gave me an offer the same day I went for an interview. They even let me think about it for some time because I was still in the middle of AEGD program...

Now the crunch: I am going to have to choose between the AEGD/MS combination and the UPenn PASS program. The safety of AEGD/MS is that I have about 6 months to go and it may be possible to get a job as a dental academic afterwards. UPenn is, as everyone would know, 2 years long and almost $65,000 per year. (Neither me or my finacee is rich!!)

I have few weeks before I give my final notice of intent to UPenn whether or not I will be joining their program next year.

For those of you who had decided to stay in the US long term and work as dentists, have any of you experienced similar situation? I know every case and every dentist is different with different story but I am at a crossroad and need to make a decision soon. It seems SDN community loves to help someone stuck with major decision (e.g having baby or not, getting married or not, applying to a school A or B...), so I hope someone out there will take time to spare their thoughts for me!

Cheers,


2nd Ed.

 

[Meggs]

Congratulations!

Can you do both?
Finish the AEGD and then go on with PASS?
PASS starts in April, won't you be done with AEGD by then?

Because with the Masters, I think you can get a license to teach, but not to do private practice.

You should check the ADA document "Dentistry in the US", it mentions something about it there.

 

[tamer]

Hi Second Edition,


You should definately continue the MS and AEGD.It will definately secure you a good position somewhere.I'm not sure if you are aware that there are states that accept Int. dentists with MS&AEGD certificates,Texas for instance.I suggest you ask around.Why dont you try applying to Minnesota?

Could you tell me what MS program you're into and was it hard applying?I'm also looking for a MS program,I also heard its really hard getting into a AEGD program,tell us your experience on this

 

[HIM0098]

Hi 2nd ED..

Some state don't even ask you to go to 2 years advance schooling...

Once you are done with your AEGD/MA, lots of doors are open for you, like Wisconsin state don't ask for the two years as long as you passed their University Administred Practical/clinical exam which I believe it last for 3 weeks and cost around $13,000 . Once you passed this practical exam you will be eligble to sit for their board liscen...Contact Wisconsin Dental Board, you can find the address on the web"sorry I don't have it handy" and you can make a request through their web site for an application to be mail to you with a pakage of information....

And there is also another door which is offered by their neighobouring state"Minnesotta" , since you will be doing one of their requirment" THE AEGD", that is they will consider your application for liscen per se..

I hope this information will help make up your mind, there is a saying in my country, which I hope will help too....and it goes like this " A chicken in your hand it is better than a Egg in your hand" and as usuall lots of meaning lots in translation..

Good Luck

 

[Henna]

Originally posted by secondedition
I wanted secure gurantee of income, hence I decided to apply for advanced standing !

Now the crunch: I am going to have to choose between the AEGD/MS combination and the UPenn PASS program. The safety of AEGD/MS is that I have about 6 months to go and it may be possible to get a job as a dental academic afterwards. UPenn is, as everyone would know, 2 years long and almost $65,000 per year. (Neither me or my finacee is rich!!)

If its only 6 months more, wont you finish by April 2004 ? If you want a save/secure future then go to UPENN. Or you can finish this program and do adv later on.
(Hmm... Like I was any help ....I got to go to sleep now that should shut me up 🙂 )

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Thanks people for your suggestions and comments. I really liked the quote, "A chicken in your hand is better than an egg..." Something to ponder! Well said!

My AEGD/M.S. degree is due for completion next July... so it was actually a little more than 6 months (sorry Henna). If I miss this cycle with UPenn, then I guess I will have another chance at applying for the following year. (Or, apply elsewhere like NYC, California, Florida.. name the school!)

Originally posted by tamer

Could you tell me what MS program you're into and was it hard applying?I'm also looking for a MS program,I also heard its really hard getting into a AEGD program,tell us your experience on this

Hi tamer,

Thanks for reading my post. The M.S. program that I am doing is also called Master of Science in Oral Biology. It's coursework based as well as clinical research. I initially started with AEGD program and then chose to do 2 years with M.S. option. AEGD programs are competitive, as more and more regular US dental graduates are applying to get more exposure on advanced general dentistry before going into private practice. For overseas qualified dentists, if you have solid letters of reference as well as good GPA, good history of clinical experience post-graduation, then you will have a good chance. You also need to explain why you would benefit from an AEGD course.

If you have further question on AEGD programs, feel free to post back. Cheers.

2nd ed.🙂

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by secondedition
......My AEGD/M.S. degree is due for completion next July... so it was actually a little more than 6 months (sorry Henna). If I miss this cycle with UPenn, then I guess I will have another chance at applying for the following year. (Or, apply elsewhere like NYC, California, Florida.. name the school!)........

Ok, know I get it. I guess if you're not in a hurry you can always wait next year. But the first ten weeks of the UPenn program is an intensive course to get foreign trained dentist up to date. So maybe with your degree, they'll excuse you, because I don't really think you need it.😀 And they really showed interest in you.

Seriously, by this time you probably know about UPenn reputation, and you're so lucky to get in there. AND their program is only 2 years, compared with NYU and Florida which are 3 years.
So hang in there!!.....😀

Luck!

 

[smilee]

hi secondedition
i would like to know more abt MS programme .what all possible subjects u have in MS and do we have to take any entrance exam to apply?
i live in virginia could u tell me any schools nearby are offering MS programme? and what is the procedure to apply?
thank you

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by secondedition
.....However, I don't see myself as a private practitioner. I came over to the US for the AEGD and a MS in order to become an academic and researcher (plus 40-50% of private practice time to support me & my expensive habits). I am aware that some states allow teaching licences so that an "internationally-trained" (whatever this "international" implies) dentist could secure a faculty position and treat patients as if he/she was in the private practice......

2nd. edition

I don't know if you have this alredy but just in case....You may want to contact this person on the ADA, to verify what kind of licensure you'll be getting if you opted for IT while holding an AEGD & MS degree only.

Lois Haglund, manager, Dental Licensure, Council on Dental Education and Licensure at [email protected].

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Originally posted by smilee
hi secondedition
i would like to know more abt MS programme .what all possible subjects u have in MS and do we have to take any entrance exam to apply?
i live in virginia could u tell me any schools nearby are offering MS programme? and what is the procedure to apply?
thank you

There is no entrance exam to MS degree. You will need to show your GPA from your undergraduate school, TOEFL if you are non-native English speaker (some now say if you are applying from non-US country, then no matter how good your English is, you must take TOEFL!) and letters of references from your former faculty. Some ask for GRE but this exam is more for Ph.D courses. I know some Californian schools ask for GRE scores for their MS courses...

If you are in Virginia, check Virginia Commonwealth University (formerly MCV) Dental School. I am sure they have a MS course somewhere!

Don't ask me about applying to programs. That's really your job as the applicant. Write an email, pick up a pen or the telephone and call the institution. Don't have the address? Goto Google.com and type in the name of the institution. Click on the name and follow the link! You will get there!

It's also good way of finding out how well organized that particular institution is... the slower the response and poorer the professionalism they show, you could bet your donuts that institution will give you a good run around for nothing.

Caveat emptor! (Buyers beware!)

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Originally posted by meggs
2nd. edition

I don't know if you have this alredy but just in case....You may want to contact this person on the ADA, to verify what kind of licensure you'll be getting if you opted for IT while holding an AEGD & MS degree only.

Lois Haglund, manager, Dental Licensure, Council on Dental Education and Licensure at [email protected].

Hey thanks meggs,

I did talk to Ms Haglund earlier this year on the telephone. I explained her about my situation and to my surprise... she had nothing new to tell me! She didn't really know much more than what was written in that ADA booklet. She suggested contacting each individual dental state boards for licensure information. She sounded quite frustrated in not being able to give me more info too.

Thanks again for your input! Always appreciated. Ta!

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

hey second edition!( but why not call yourself as 1st edition??)
ok anyways....i just caught up with the whole chain and I would suggest that yu do both..... as in you say that yu'll be finishing in July with yur AEGD right? and you also say that UPenn accepted you on the spot right(wonder what charm you have!!) so why not request them and defer your admission period and then once you are done in July, you can immediatly join the program in August.....i mean a DDS is definitely the best sure shot way to hang out in this country....the AEGD and all other things are just the supplements to it...believe me (this is what a senior dentist told me) the other states which give you options may not actually have their laws "foreign dentist" friendly all the time....and ofcourse rules can change anytime!! go ahead and work on your finances and donmisss the chance buddy! atleast this is waht i feel......all the best anyways...
K'jal.

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by secondedition
....Don't ask me about applying to programs. That's really your job as the applicant. Write an email, pick up a pen or the telephone and call the institution. Don't have the address? Goto Google.com and type in the name of the institution. Click on the name and follow the link! You will get there!

It's also good way of finding out how well organized that particular institution is... the slower the response and poorer the professionalism they show, you could bet your donuts that institution will give you a good run around for nothing.

Caveat emptor! (Buyers beware!)

I love this kind of post and poster.

Originally posted by secondedition
Hey thanks meggs,

I did talk to Ms Haglund earlier this year on the telephone. I explained her about my situation and to my surprise... she had nothing new to tell me!

Thanks again for your input! Always appreciated. Ta!

Your welcome, sorry it didn't help at all. But Lois is a female???The funny thing is earlier this year I corresponded with her by email, and I always refer to her as a male!!! I always wrote Mr. !!. Lois in Spanish is a male name. 😳 😳

 

[smilee]

hi secondedition
thanx a lot and please forgive my ignorance as iam totally new to this forum . i would be glad if u can tell me the possible prospectus of MS and the possible subjects u have
and the fee structure
thank you

 

[Meggs]

Smilee,

Since you're new on this.........

Check the sticky first thread "Links for foreing......." on this forum. There I've posted a link to the ADA site where you can search for all types of post graduate studies.

If you go there, and select to search for AEGD either 12 or 24 months (I beleive this last ones usually are the ones with masters) you'll obtain a list of what you're looking for.

Then go to the list of regular DDS programs, find the schools you got on the AEGD list, and there they've posted their web addresses. Visit each individual school, and contact them with your questions.

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Thanks people for all your input. I am very grateful for you to take some time out and reply. It was great support! Thanks.

Soon I will make up my mind regarding PASS vs. AEGD/MS. I think I am leaning towards completing my AEGD/MS and then re-apply to Penn or other advanced standing course. Will the lightening strike again twice? Let's hope so!

Cheers.

 

[Henna]

Originally posted by secondedition
Soon I will make up my mind regarding PASS vs. AEGD/MS. I think I am leaning towards completing my AEGD/MS and then re-apply to Penn or other advanced standing course.

Good Idea !
You get my vote 🙂 .

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Hey Raj,

Thanks for your input. I have already deferred the UPenn entry for a year. I guess it would be too much to ask them for another deferment, don't you think?

Cheers

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

hey second edition! no way!! i dont think so! unless the school is of the really conservative types, ive heard that most schools allow deferments upto 2 years!! i mean once they know that yu are the right candidate they are looking for, they should not have any problems. I suggest you to call up the program director and speak to him/her in person and am sure you have a convincing reason to explain.....so you are still good to go! or atleast ask for a half year deferment, by then am sure yu would are done with yur current MS/AEGD program.
good luck! and get promoted to being a 1st edition soon..lol!!
K'jal.

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Hey Kajal buddy

Thanks for your encouragement. You're always full of positive attitude. You should rub some of that positivity off on this forum for some! Good on you!

I did turn down the offer and also hinted that I would be interested in deferring it for another year. I sincerely hope that they consider me for another year of deferment. Wish me luck.

In the mean time, I will finish my MS thesis and the coursework. I had to sit my TOEFL again recently because the 2 year score report time limit was up! It was pretty easy. I will gather info on various schools around the US to apply for 'back up' advanced standing programs. Including UPenn, I am considering NY, MA and California schools. They're not exactly cheap but the best of the rest!

Good luck with your application Kjal.

Cheers,

😎

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by secondedition
..... You're always full of positive attitude. You should rub some of that positivity off on this forum for some! Good on you!.....

You're soooo fuuunnyyy!!

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Hey Meggs

How is your preparation for advanced standing applications? Have you compiled a list of potential schools and programs? I have started to make a list of potential schools. Just bumped into tuition issue... some schools demand so much! Daylight robbery or am I taking things for granted too much? With that kind of money, I'd rather forget dentistry in the US and goto Medical School and become a family physician! What are your thoughts?

Ciao

2ed

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by secondedition
Hey Meggs

How is your preparation for advanced standing applications? Have you compiled a list of potential schools and programs? I have started to make a list of potential schools. Just bumped into tuition issue... some schools demand so much! Daylight robbery or am I taking things for granted too much? With that kind of money, I'd rather forget dentistry in the US and goto Medical School and become a family physician! What are your thoughts?

Ciao

2ed

I know, some people I know say they just won't pay that kind of money to go to dental school again here in the US. So they just don't revalidate the career and become hygienists or dental assistants. But I certanly don't want to do that. So if I get in somewhere, I'll opt for a private loan.

I have alredy applied to 5 schools, I've got some other few in the look, in case I don't hear soon from the previous 5. My first choices are 2 years program in the East Coast, but it doesn't seem "it ain't gonna happen". So I'll be happy with at least 1 acceptance anywhere. 😀

If you still looking for programs, you'll have probably noticed that programs in not so popular cities are the cheapests. Like Case Western, NOVA, Marquette, etc. Compared with cities like NY, San Fco., etc. So if you're willing to relocate to the middle of ....... or live under 20 feet of snow all year round 😛 , I'll say go for it. j/k 😀

Good luck!!

 

[ddsfight]

hello,
I am reallly confused about these AEGD and Gpr program.I know AEGD is a kind of residency program but as per my knowledge only us graduates can apply for this because few months back I went to UCLA site to get info about aegd and its written there that only us gradutes r eligible for that. same thing for the GPR.

Secondedition had written"I am currently in a Master's program while completing my certificate in AEGD".
In which school did u get admision and in which subject?
Without license do they allow u to treat pts in aegd program?
what is the procedure for applying to school? Is there any agency to go through it?

I know its lot of Qs?
I tried to find out myself but still the things r not clear in my mind.
Your info would really really help me a lot.
thanx

 

[gsmm]

hi ddsfight..every school and hospital has different strategy..neither ucla, usc nor uop allow foreign dentists into aegd or gpr..i am interested too..i will try to look around..

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by ddsfight
what is the procedure for applying to school? Is there any agency to go through it?

Go the "Links of interest..." thread. There you'll find the links for the MATCH and the PASS programs. Read them and you'll find out what they are and who they work.

 

[shyam]

Originally posted by ddsfight
hello,


Secondedition had written"I am currently in a Master's program while completing my certificate in AEGD".
In which school did u get admision and in which subject?
Without license do they allow u to treat pts in aegd program?

Hello eveyone!
I agree with dds fight coz according to my research too its practically impossible to get into a aegd program due to liscence restrictions..i may be wrong and would love to be corrected.

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

Hi.

AEGD is becoming more and more competitive to get into lately. With the GME funding being cut off and more recent graduates unsure of what they want to do, AEGD/GPR are becoming quite popular. Most people on this thread have correctly guessed that the licensure issue will not allow some foreign graduates to participate in the program. However, most of the newly graduated US dentists won't be licenced for the most part of the program because they would have just graduated and had just finished their regional boards. Some of them even fail! So the licensure issue is not that important. Their entry requirements for foreign graduates change each year. There is no set standard entry requirements. When I applied from overseas, I basically went through the entire PASS AEGD booklet and ticked off the ones that offered positions to foreign graduates. Out of possible 50 or so, I picked about 15. Out of the 15, I had calls from only 3.

Masters of Science is an option to some 2 year AEGD programs. You treat patients and take some time during the day to goto classes and do some research (mostly clinical). It's very demanding and certainly not a walk in the park!

My advice is to do research the PASS booklet on AEGD programs, find out their requirements and make a list of them. The deadlines for application all vary greatly. Call them up and email them. Some don't require NDBEs but it's a good idea to have them if you can. TOEFL is also important. (Again, each program will have their own requirements.) Not all offer 2 year AEGD programs.

My feelings on AEGD as a recent graduate (I had been practicing almost 2 years prior to AEGD)? I feel it's great. You treat several "big" cases and treat patient with other specialists such as periodontists, oral surgeons and endodontists. In some aspects, it really makes you like general dentistry. Also, the larger the class size is, the more chance you have to interact with your colleagues and debrief each other at the end of the day. This is - I believe - AEGD education at its best. You learn to communicate with your peers and learn from what they would have done - or how not to have done! Some states allow AEGD training as "supplemental" education in the ADA accredited program as licensure requirements. e.g. Florida and Minnesota. Some don't.

AEGD can lead way into private practice. However, compared to doing advanced standing, it may narrow your choice of the US states to work in! But who cares once you open up a practice?

Good luck!

Cheers,

2ed.

PS. Sorry, April is going to be a tough month for me to reply. It's going to be very busy for me!

 

[Ann 03]

2ed,
thanx tht was helpful.
hey guys i want to knowwhether u have pay tuition for AEGD program or do u get a stipend?

 

[SiMpLy IrReSiStAbLe]

there is no tuition for the AEGD program and they do pay a stipend if u are eligible to accept it (visa status).

 

[ddsfight]

Very informative post! I got basic idea of aegd.
Thanx a lot secondedition

 

[Ann 03]

thanks itsme.

 

[DentalDocCa]

hi,
i am a foreign graduate,now in canada as a permanent resident.i am applying for AEGD in rochester.i would like to know the admission process and can i do private practice after completion of this program.is it feasible to join or should i retake part1 and go for DDS.
thanks

Hi.

AEGD is becoming more and more competitive to get into lately. With the GME funding being cut off and more recent graduates unsure of what they want to do, AEGD/GPR are becoming quite popular. Most people on this thread have correctly guessed that the licensure issue will not allow some foreign graduates to participate in the program. However, most of the newly graduated US dentists won't be licenced for the most part of the program because they would have just graduated and had just finished their regional boards. Some of them even fail! So the licensure issue is not that important. Their entry requirements for foreign graduates change each year. There is no set standard entry requirements. When I applied from overseas, I basically went through the entire PASS AEGD booklet and ticked off the ones that offered positions to foreign graduates. Out of possible 50 or so, I picked about 15. Out of the 15, I had calls from only 3.

Masters of Science is an option to some 2 year AEGD programs. You treat patients and take some time during the day to goto classes and do some research (mostly clinical). It's very demanding and certainly not a walk in the park!

My advice is to do research the PASS booklet on AEGD programs, find out their requirements and make a list of them. The deadlines for application all vary greatly. Call them up and email them. Some don't require NDBEs but it's a good idea to have them if you can. TOEFL is also important. (Again, each program will have their own requirements.) Not all offer 2 year AEGD programs.

My feelings on AEGD as a recent graduate (I had been practicing almost 2 years prior to AEGD)? I feel it's great. You treat several "big" cases and treat patient with other specialists such as periodontists, oral surgeons and endodontists. In some aspects, it really makes you like general dentistry. Also, the larger the class size is, the more chance you have to interact with your colleagues and debrief each other at the end of the day. This is - I believe - AEGD education at its best. You learn to communicate with your peers and learn from what they would have done - or how not to have done! Some states allow AEGD training as "supplemental" education in the ADA accredited program as licensure requirements. e.g. Florida and Minnesota. Some don't.

AEGD can lead way into private practice. However, compared to doing advanced standing, it may narrow your choice of the US states to work in! But who cares once you open up a practice?

Good luck!

Cheers,

2ed.

PS. Sorry, April is going to be a tough month for me to reply. It's going to be very busy for me!

 

[i beleive]

hi,
i am a foreign graduate,now in canada as a permanent resident.ii took nbde part 1 and scored 78%.i am applying for AEGD in rochester.i would like to know the admission process and can i do private practice after completion of this program.is it feasible to join or should i retake part1 and go for DDS.
thanks

all the best for your exam....dental doc......R .M.

 

[greeny]

Can you please let me know where did you do ur MS and AEGD program ? Also in what states this AEGD program is valid - I mean in what states I can get a license once I complete AEGD program. my mail ID is [email protected]

 

[greeny]

hi


somewhere on SDN i read that u appeared for an interview for AEGD program in rochester .do u have any idea which states allow to get lincensed in US.even i have also applied for this program &have my interview in sept but thinking to drop this bcoz i am in texas &texas doesnt consider this program to get lincensed .i will really appreciate your help


thanks
greeny

Thanks people for your suggestions and comments. I really liked the quote, "A chicken in your hand is better than an egg..." Something to ponder! Well said!

My AEGD/M.S. degree is due for completion next July... so it was actually a little more than 6 months (sorry Henna). If I miss this cycle with UPenn, then I guess I will have another chance at applying for the following year. (Or, apply elsewhere like NYC, California, Florida.. name the school!)




Hi tamer,

Thanks for reading my post. The M.S. program that I am doing is also called Master of Science in Oral Biology. It's coursework based as well as clinical research. I initially started with AEGD program and then chose to do 2 years with M.S. option. AEGD programs are competitive, as more and more regular US dental graduates are applying to get more exposure on advanced general dentistry before going into private practice. For overseas qualified dentists, if you have solid letters of reference as well as good GPA, good history of clinical experience post-graduation, then you will have a good chance. You also need to explain why you would benefit from an AEGD course.

If you have further question on AEGD programs, feel free to post back. Cheers.

2nd ed.🙂

 

[greeny]

somewhere on SDN i read that u appeared for an interview for AEGD program in rochester .do u have any idea which states allow to get lincensed in US.even i have also applied for this program &have my interview in sept but thinking to drop this bcoz i am in texas &texas doesnt consider this program to get lincensed .i will really appreciate your help
thanks

there is no tuition for the AEGD program and they do pay a stipend if u are eligible to accept it (visa status).