Community College vs University for Prereqs (2 merged threads)

[Bob_Barker27]

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I actually don't recall anyone saying it was heated....

i believe the word used was "elitest"

and boy... by the looks of your post it just kinda kills your credibility....

name calling?
lol

I believed somebody else use the word heated, I'm not sure why you think my comments were directed specifically at you since I replied to the thread, not you. I think you did imply you thought this conversation was getting heated. Something about it was getting as "horrible" and "demeaning" as physician vs. pharmacist posts. I don't see how pointing out you and a few others are a little over-sensitive is name calling, but you have the right to be easily offended. I would say calling people "elitist" is a form of name calling though. You are not an elitist if you point out that community college courses are easier. Nobody was saying that you are less intelligent if you take courses at a community college. The majority of students who go to community colleges are not pre-pharmacy students though, and the majority are not the most gifted students in the world. How many top students in your high school class went to community college afterwards? It just makes sense that community colleges are less challenging than 4 year schools because they are catering to less academically gifted students for the most part. Don't run away from the truth, it won't kill you.

 

[endlesslove]

Nobody was saying that you are less intelligent if you take courses at a community college. The majority of students who go to community colleges are not pre-pharmacy students though, and the majority are not the most gifted students in the world. Don't run away from the truth, it won't kill you.

while most who attend CCs "are not the most gifted students in the world," some are. and seriously, some ppl in this forum are taking this thread too seriously. this is a *discussion.* if you feel offended, then why bother responding to these posts? shouldn't you, future pharmacy students/pharmacists of America, be open-minded? if not, then pharmacy, or any health profession, is seriously not the place for you.

I attend UCLA with a degree in chemical engineering and the classes there are much harder because of the competition and the material. CC is much easier no doubt, but i have yet to take an anatomy and physiology class here. I can't afford to leave for full-time because I have bills to pay. And i don't want to go back to UCLA just to take two classes, although what Bob says makes sense. 😡

Which pharmacy school rep told you that? Very curious.

Blueclassring--as mentioned in some of my previous posts, i know that for the CA pharm schools, which are highly competitive, you should take them at the university level (i think they said to take them in the most rigorous/demanding setting possible--so that'd be from the school you get your degree from, for those who are pursuing a degree). Have you considered maybe taking anatomy and physio at a State university, such as Cal State LA/Fullerton? I think these schools are also very accomodating of students' schedules b/c many also work part-full time. yeah, i wouldn't want to go back to UCLA just to take those 2 classes. BEST OF LUCK!

 

[Bob_Barker27]

while most who attend CCs "are not the most gifted students in the world," some are.

Isn't it kind of redundant to to point out that some students are gifted if you previously pointed out that MOST are not? Most doesn't mean all, so it's understood there are exceptions to the rule and that SOME students in community college are academically gifted. I'm just giving you a hard time 🙂

 

[adventurer]

I have to respond, but maybe I am "sensitive and easily offended"

Bob Barker, You appear to be a might bit prejudiced against CC's. Just pointing out that many CCs have good reputations in science classes and nobody takes Physics or OChem without a darned good reason (maybe pre Pharm???)

Just a suggestion to be a bit more open minded. You have obviously chosen your own path, and I hope it works for you, but everyone's situation is different. 🙄

 

[blueclassring]

Most of my science classes were taken at UCLA. I lack phy. sci, anatomy, one english class, and microbiology. I'll contact the admission's committee to discuss this. Now, i'm downright concerned.

 

[imperial frog]

I personally don't think it's fair for pharmacy schools to accept students who take most of their science courses at a community college because it's probable that many of their grades would have been lower at the state school.

Here's to hoping you never become an adcom member then. There is something to be said about looking at the total package and not just where a student's grades came from.

I would say calling people "elitist" is a form of name calling though.

Well, technically he did call the thread elitist not any of the posters.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

I have to respond, but maybe I am "sensitive and easily offended"

Bob Barker, You appear to be a might bit prejudiced against CC's. Just pointing out that many CCs have good reputations in science classes and nobody takes Physics or OChem without a darned good reason (maybe pre Pharm???)

Just a suggestion to be a bit more open minded. You have obviously chosen your own path, and I hope it works for you, but everyone's situation is different. 🙄

I have said that if your school doesn't care if you take courses at a CC, then go for it. I have been told by three pharmacy colleges that they prefer students who take the majority of their science classes at a 4 year school. I offered this information to other students in here that want to make their application as attractive as possible. I think by open minded, you mean I should change my opinion the second somebody disagrees with me. I am entitled to believe that community colleges are less challenging academically then four year colleges, and I believe this is a view held by a majority of people in this country.

 

[Tyrol]

Here's to hoping you never become an adcom member then. There is something to be said about looking at the total package and not just where a student's grades came from.



Well, technically he did call the thread elitist not any of the posters.

I have been following this thread for a while. I have avoided weighing in but, here are my two cents: Here in FL some CCs have a good reputation and some do not. The point is, it seems dangerous to generalize in one direction or the other. As Imperial Frog said, it depends on the total package. I know COP students at UF that were admitted solely from CCs, I also know ones that graduated from Vanderbilt University when I did that applied (with extremely competitive stats, in-state residency, etc) and did not get in. Obviously things like experience in the field, essays, maturity, etc. contribute to an applicants profile in its entirety. To make a generalized argument, in either direction, seems to be an oversimplification.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

Here's to hoping you never become an adcom member then. There is something to be said about looking at the total package and not just where a student's grades came from.

Well, technically he did call the thread elitist not any of the posters.

I do think GPA should be the primary thing that a pharmacy school looks at, as well as the academic reputation of the school he or she attends. I think a high GPA reflects work ethic and academic excellence over a long period of time during which you have to juggle many things in addition to school including work and social activities. I believe students should be accepted based on academic merit that a GPA reflects, not other superficial things like race, sex, extracurricular activities, or financial situation. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. By the way, a thread cannot be elitist, elitist is an adjective that is used to describe people.

 

[imperial frog]

Flew right over the head didn't it?

 

[Bob_Barker27]

Flew right over the head didn't it?

Yah, you are just too deep for me.

 

[imperial frog]

I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

I wouldn't doubt it.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering though. That's got to count for something. I also don't feel the need to call people stupid if they have a difference of opinion. You appear to have a low emotional IQ.

 

[imperial frog]

Who called anyone stupid? If someone did it sure wasn't me. In fact, I don't believe I called you any name or attributed any subnormal attributes to you at all. I was just agreeing with you.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

Who called anyone stupid? If someone did it sure wasn't me. I was just agreeing with you. In fact, I don't believe I called you any name or attributed any subnormal attributes to you at all.

This is kind of like your claim that nobody called anybody an elitist, they just called the thread elitist. Yes, you didn't call me anything, you just implied I was not intellectually capable of understanding your point about pharmacy schools considering the complete package. It just "flew over my head", as you arrogantly put it.

 

[bananaface]

This conversation needs to get back on topic.

If you disagree withsomeone else's opinion, it is okay to discuss it. But, the bickering is not called for.

 

[imperial frog]

The sarcasm apparently did indeed fly over your head about the elitist comment and your views on CC versus university.

Sorry bananahead...I deleted the rest.

 

[ultracet]

Resisting the urge to reply is very very very difficult for me bananahead... but alas i can occasionally be fairly mature and drop topics....


ok back on topic.

As far as i understand

Advantages to CC:
Cheaper
More accessable
Decreased student to teacher ratio


Advantages to University
Perception of harder classes
More variety of classes offered
More fun to be had (my opinion only)

Disadvantages to Community College
not perceived as hard
may not give adequate preparation
may not adjust as quickly to pharmacy school


Disadvantages to University
may get lost in classes
may take a semester to adjust and grades could be low



Some points to remember... Not all universities are thought of highly and don't always have a great reputation
Also there is a difference between a large university and a small one.
large being more typical "state school"
small being more like community college
yet both are 4 year


I personally have attended community colleges, small state colleges, small universities, and a large university

I found the education to be the best at the small state college i attended there were professors who were from very prestigious programs and were very well qualified.

My classes in community college were a joke for me but i was in the classes with others who had failed the class several times over. this was just my experience with this one CC and i have several friends in my class that were potentially more prepared than I for pharmacy school and had no trouble adjusting

The large university was just a lot of fun. i had a great time in college and didn't miss out on many experiences at all. but most "intellectual" people i have talked to scoff at my school (and i typically think they can shove it).

Had I stayed at the small state college or small university i would have definitely had much much much better grades and probably learned more in classes with a max of 50 people. But i feel i would have missed out on life.

If you are young make sure you don't let everything bypass you b/c i'll tell you that pharm school is definitely less and less fun as time goes on.

 

[imperial frog]

Ok, now 100% sarcasm free.

What it boils down to is if you can take the courses at a university then by all means take them. However, if you have to take them at a CC because that's your only option, then by all means take them. It doesn't mean that you won't have a shot at getting into a pharmschool.

And if by some chance you have a position on an adcom somewhere down the road in your career, don't automatically dismiss a person who went the CC route over the university one. I've met some university educated people who were idiots (socially, educationally, and just all around) and some CC ones who were the same. I've also met good ones from both sides. But looking at the GPA and the school that gave it won't give you the true picture of the person. Some times you must talk to the idiots to find out that they just don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Gizmo]

Well stated, imperial frog.

 

[skp]

from my experience - being a student at both a private 4-year college and a large community college - is that a community college education is more unpredictable...let me explain.

i found that community college courses could either be insanely easy, normal, or forget-an-A hard. I found a huge variety in depth, rate, and applicability in CC courses. Are these attributes negative? Most definitely! Are there positives to CC? Also, most definitely! I won't list them here as most have already been described. So, in my opinion, 4-year colleges are "safer." I would thoroughly check out a CC before attending.
-skp

 

[adventurer]

I have said that if your school doesn't care if you take courses at a CC, then go for it. I have been told by three pharmacy colleges that they prefer students who take the majority of their science classes at a 4 year school. I offered this information to other students in here that want to make their application as attractive as possible.

Bob, are you trying to imply that I am not trying to offer my advice to other students as well?




I think by open minded, you mean I should change my opinion the second somebody disagrees with me. I am entitled to believe that community colleges are less challenging academically then four year colleges, and I believe this is a view held by a majority of people in this country.

I do not think that you should change your opinion, but on reading your posts, you seem to want to highly discourage people from the CC and not be open to the idea that they have academic value, without (correct me if I am wrong) having attended one yourself.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

I do not think that you should change your opinion, but on reading your posts, you seem to want to highly discourage people from the CC and not be open to the idea that they have academic value, without (correct me if I am wrong) having attended one yourself.

Um, three pharmacy schools have told me that they prefer students who take their science courses at a 4 year school. Maybe that's why I'm discouraging students from taking science courses at a CC? You need to work on those reading comprehension skills before you take the PCAT 🙂 I have taken some classes at a community college, and they were incredibly easy compared to courses at 4 year colleges.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

Ok, now 100% sarcasm free.

What it boils down to is if you can take the courses at a university then by all means take them. However, if you have to take them at a CC because that's your only option, then by all means take them. It doesn't mean that you won't have a shot at getting into a pharmschool.

And if by some chance you have a position on an adcom somewhere down the road in your career, don't automatically dismiss a person who went the CC route over the university one. I've met some university educated people who were idiots (socially, educationally, and just all around) and some CC ones who were the same. I've also met good ones from both sides. But looking at the GPA and the school that gave it won't give you the true picture of the person. Some times you must talk to the idiots to find out that they just don't know what they are talking about.

I never made the claim that you couldn't get in to pharmacy school if you take your pre-pharmacy courses at a CC. I just claimed three pharmacy schools told me they prefer students who take science courses at a 4 year school. You can choose to take that advice or not. You claim you have met many idiots who went to a 4-year school. To believe this, one has to assume that you have great intelligence. How do we know that these people were not in fact much more intelligent than you? Just take your word for it, I guess? Often times people will say somebody is stupid just because they don't like them. I think that I would prefer for an admissions committee to base academic potential on things like GPA and PCAT scores and the competitiveness of the college they attended, not so much on their personal intuition, as you seem to be advocating. It seems to me that it's primarily people with lower GPAs who would advocate looking at other things other than GPA. This approach seems like a great way for slackers to get in to pharmacy school.

 

[bananaface]

What I am hearing is a general acceptance of the idea that schools tend to prefer university coursework.

The topic currently up for debate seems to be: Is where one has completed their prerequisites likely to be a deciding factor in the admissions process? In other words, how strong is the preference for university coursework, relative to the other factors considered in the admissions process.

 

[Glycerin]

You need to work on those reading comprehension skills before you take the PCAT 🙂

Bob, that poster has obviously already taken the PCAT, as he/she posted in this thread that he/she was accepted to pharmacy school in October. It's comments such as the one I quoted that are really unnecessary. There's no need to try to deal low blows. As I've also stated before in this thread, it's best that if we (the group in general) don't agree on the issue, then let's just agree to disagree.

 

[ultracet]

What I am hearing is a general acceptance of the idea that schools tend to prefer university coursework.

The topic currently up for debate seems to be: Is where one has completed their prerequisites likely to be a deciding factor in the admissions process? In other words, how strong is the preference for university coursework, relative to the other factors considered in the admissions process.

I would pose this question to vandykitten.... (don't even know if she's reading the thread)... Do you feel that attending vandy has helped you in the process over anything else?

I also welcome anyone who has attended "prestigous" universities to reply as well....
Do we have anyone from Duke on here?
Emory?
UVA?
Stamford?
Harvard?
Yale?
MIT?
Don't really know about all of their science curriculums but all big names....
Sorry West Coasters... Fell free to join in I just don't know anything about anything past the Miss.

Do you all feel that your undergraduate education aided in the application process or your acceptance into pharmacy school?

I went to the University of Tennessee and when compared to those around me who went to "state schools" i don't think it made a difference at all. While I do think "state schools" are challenging I don't think most are looked at as being all that fantastic comparitively...

Perhaps an adcom would say... Prestigous School > State School > "Prestigous" Community College> Unheardof U/or College > Community college

What do you all think?

 

[Tyrol]

I would pose this question to vandykitten.... (don't even know if she's reading the thread)... Do you feel that attending vandy has helped you in the process over anything else?

I also welcome anyone who has attended "prestigous" universities to reply as well....
Do we have anyone from Duke on here?
Emory?
UVA?
Stamford?
Harvard?
Yale?
MIT?
Don't really know about all of their science curriculums but all big names....
Sorry West Coasters... Fell free to join in I just don't know anything about anything past the Miss.

Do you all feel that your undergraduate education aided in the application process or your acceptance into pharmacy school?

I went to the University of Tennessee and when compared to those around me who went to "state schools" i don't think it made a difference at all. While I do think "state schools" are challenging I don't think most are looked at as being all that fantastic comparitively...

Perhaps an adcom would say... Prestigous School > State School > "Prestigous" Community College> Unheardof U/or College > Community college

What do you all think?

BBMuffin-

Saw your post, I also graduated from Vanderbilt University (BS Biology), and to answer your question, I believe that it factors in very little in an academic setting. (See my post under CC vs. 4yr). Honestly grades and GPA matter much more. However, professionally, it has certainly been a benefit. It has opened doors to jobs and a very strong alumna/alumnus network.
BTW- you UT people always Obliterated us every year in the SEC. Thanks!
(Vandy's only claim to fame: girl's b-ball!)

 

[imperial frog]

You claim you have met many idiots who went to a 4-year school. To believe this, one has to assume that you have great intelligence.

And yet your assumption might have some merit if I claimed I've met many idiots, which I didn't exactly say did I? Not that your assumption isn't correct by the way. 😀

I think that I would prefer for an admissions committee to base academic potential on things like GPA and PCAT scores and the competitiveness of the college they attended, not so much on their personal intuition, as you seem to be advocating.

This is where I agree, but what I had originally responding to was your statement that it wasn't fair for a CC student to get into a pharmschool over a university student. You were throwing out one and only one measurement tool for the decision...whether they went to a CC or a university.

And advocating looking at the total package is not merely advocating personal intuition. It means reviewing the candidate's progression throughout academia and life via the information that the school chooses to gather. Do they have the communication skills necessary for the profession? Do they have realistic expectations of what is going to be expected of them? Do they have the temperment for it? These can be vital to not only getting them through the 4 years but also keeping them in the profession without a quick burnout, but the type of school that they came from doesn't give one iota of information about these intangibles but an interview might shed some light on it.

It seems to me that it's primarily people with lower GPAs who would advocate looking at other things other than GPA.

Hmm, and yet you just gave a list of other things you think should be looked at. Makes me wonder.

 

[Tyrol]

I must take issue with this statement as well. I certainly advocate looking at a multitude of other factors when considering a candidate for CoP. However this has no correlation to my GPA, which is a 3.81.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

Bob, that poster has obviously already taken the PCAT, as he/she posted in this thread that he/she was accepted to pharmacy school in October. It's comments such as the one I quoted that are really unnecessary. There's no need to try to deal low blows. As I've also stated before in this thread, it's best that if we (the group in general) don't agree on the issue, then let's just agree to disagree.

I think it's interesting you attack me for "dealing low blows" after I and others were called "elitist" because we believe courses at community colleges are easier. I didn't see you having a problem with that. These people shouldn't dish it out if they can't handle a little trash talk in return. This guy stated incorrrectly that I seemed to want to discourage people from taking courses at CC, even though I have said several times that if the pharmacy school you apply at does not care where you take your courses, then by all means take your courses at a CC.

 

[Bob_Barker27]

And yet your assumption might have some merit if I claimed I've met many idiots, which I didn't exactly say did I? Not that your assumption isn't correct by the way. 😀



This is where I agree, but what I had originally responding to was your statement that it wasn't fair for a CC student to get into a pharmschool over a university student. You were throwing out one and only one measurement tool for the decision...whether they went to a CC or a university.

And advocating looking at the total package is not merely advocating personal intuition. It means reviewing the candidate's progression throughout academia and life via the information that the school chooses to gather. Do they have the communication skills necessary for the profession? Do they have realistic expectations of what is going to be expected of them? Do they have the temperment for it? These can be vital to not only getting them through the 4 years but also keeping them in the profession without a quick burnout, but the type of school that they came from doesn't give one iota of information about these intangibles but an interview might shed some light on it.



Hmm, and yet you just gave a list of other things you think should be looked at. Makes me wonder.

I think GPA and competiveness of the college where the applicant takes his courses should be used to make the first cut. I believe most schools have a minimum GPA that an applicant must have to even be considered. I am assuming there are going to be too many students even after they eliminate students who don't meet the minimum GPA requirement, and the schools can then look at other factors like interpersonal skills and knowledge of the profession to eliminate other students. I am curious about how you know what kind GPA one of these "idiot" state school students that you have met has? Do they post their GPA on a name tag on their shirt? Do you inquire what their GPA is? Your stated theory was that you often can determine a person's intelligence just by talking to them for a few minutes, and that seems to be just a matter of perspective and personal bias. I can say that every 4 year school student that I have met is a genius, and every community college educated student I meet is an idiot, if I wanted to just submit anecdotal evidence like you did. Since I was advised by three pharmacy schools not to take the majority of my science classes at a CC, obviously these pharmacy schools think that community college science courses are less challenging. There's no need to shoot the messenger of news that you don't like.

 

[ultracet]

Since I was advised by three pharmacy schools not to take the majority of my science classes at a CC, obviously these pharmacy schools think that community college science courses are less challenging.

i think we have gotten your point that 3 different pharm schools prefer 4yr schools to a community college.

i also understand that it is your advice/belief that if at all possible courses (especially science) should be taken at a 4 yr institution.
i personally agree with this statement but i do understand why others do not.


i was told by one high ranking official that most schools were starting to prefer 4 yr degrees and then next week another high ranking official that they would not be looking at that anytime soon and it didn't matter if you have a degree or not.

most of the time schools can't keep their stories straight and this could be aiding to some of the confusion

 

[dgroulx]

Your stated theory was that you often can determine a person's intelligence just by talking to them for a few minutes, and that seems to be just a matter of perspective and personal bias.

Actually, you usually can tell a person's intelligence by just talking to them for a few minutes. When we are recruiting for Mensa, it involves having a conversation, inviting them to an event like games night, then giving them testing information. It's really pretty easy to tell.

 

[imperial frog]

I am curious about how you know what kind GPA one of these "idiot" state school students that you have met has? Do they post their GPA on a name tag on their shirt? Do you inquire what their GPA is? Your stated theory was that you often can determine a person's intelligence just by talking to them for a few minutes, and that seems to be just a matter of perspective and personal bias.

You really should learn to read to get things correct. I never mentioned GPA and idiots. I said I met idiots from from universities as well as from CCs. And thanks for pointing out my stated theory, which I never stated nor even hinted at.

 

[bananaface]

This thread has way too much animosity. If anyone still wishes to discuss this topic, feel free to make a new thread.

Closing.

- Anna 🙂