Community service in my native country.

[Takamori]

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Hi, every one!

My question: is community service I had done in my native country worth mentioning in the application?
It was important for me and I had been doing it for years.
Thank you.

 

[Goro]

Nope. We know that most people really went to go visit Nana/Abuela/Ajima in the old country.

Service to others needs to be done here.

Hi, every one!

My question: is community service I had done in my native country worth mentioning in the application?
It was important for me and I had been doing it for years.
Thank you.

 

[Takamori]

Nope. We know that most people really went to go visit Nana/Abuela/Ajima in the old country.

Service to others needs to be done here.

Haha that makes sense, but I did not go anywhere. I lived there before migrating to the US. Does it make difference @Goro ? Thank you!

 

[candbgirl]

Have you done anything here ? If not you should since you are living here now and want to go to med school here. Maybe use your native country service in your PS somehow. But you really need to get service in the USA.


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[Takamori]

Yes, I have been doing something here, but since it's obvious, I didn't ask about my service here. Thank you @candbgirl .

 

[Takamori]

Maybe use your native country service in your PS somehow.

Thank you. Do you think I should mention it only in my PS without listing it in EC's?

 

[futuresomething22]

How about clinical work in another country? Most of my extended family is there and I visit almost every summer but last summer I worked two weeks under the only town doctor and gained lots of experience that I was also hoping to use as one of my most meaningful? It was shadowing and taking vitals and assisting the doctor in anyway I could and gained a ton of experience and insight in medicine in a 3rd world country @Goro


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[Takamori]

In my country any clinical experience is not available for non-medical professionals unless you are a patient. By the way, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world are political terms that have nothing to do with wealth or poverty.

 

[futuremdforme]

Haha that's make sense, but I did not go anywhere. I lived there before migrating to the US. Does it make difference @Goro ? Thank you!

I would use it since it indicates a long history of service, versus a recent realization that you need it for your medical school application. It's not like a medical tourism trip if you lived there.

EDIT: this is assuming it is worthy of being in your top 15 things. You could even lump a few less interesting volunteer gigs if they're similar in nature, and write about them together.

 

[Takamori]

I would use it since it indicates a long history of service, versus a recent realization that you need it for your medical school application. It's not like a medical tourism trip if you lived there.

Yes, I was thinking of different pathway in my life while I was doing what I was doing. It was important for my personal growth and I don't understand why ADCOMs should be so suspicious to applicants.

 

[Takamori]

EDIT: this is assuming it is worthy of being in your top 15 things.

That's the reason, actually. I did it for six years and put much of energy and heart into it. I guess, I'll mention it both in PS and EC's. Thank you.

 

[DingoPingo]

Nope. We know that most people really went to go visit Nana/Abuela/Ajima in the old country.

Service to others needs to be done here.

Why does service to others need to be done here? Where's here? In your home? Your neighborhood? Your city? Your country? Your planet?

Important community service, wherever it was done, should definitely be noted. It would be insane otherwise.

 

[candbgirl]

Most of these voluntourism gigs send affluent college kids into a country for 7-14 days to"work" or "make a difference" and then leave and run home and add it to their list for med school. ADCOMS evidently are well aware of this and question the commitment or real reason for doing it of the student. It is better to do stuff and make a difference helping the underserved in your own community. For one thing you can do this more than a onetime fly in gig if you want and you can really help those in need right here at home.
I think OP can certainly mention his service in his native country, but he should have work in America too.


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[Goro]

In the USA of A. And best OFF your college campus.
Medicine is a service profession. You need to show us your altruism and humanism. And we're not training you so you can go back to the old country and practice there.

Why does service to others need to be done here? Where's here? In your home? Your neighborhood? Your city? Your country? Your planet?

Important community service, wherever it was done, should definitely be noted. It would be insane otherwise.

 

[DokterMom]

Most of these voluntourism gigs send affluent college kids into a country for 7-14 days to"work" or "make a difference" and then leave and run home and add it to their list for med school. ADCOMS evidently are well aware of this and question the commitment or real reason for doing it of the student. It is better to do stuff and make a difference helping the underserved in your own community. For one thing you can do this more than a onetime fly in gig if you want and you can really help those in need right here at home.
I think OP can certainly mention his service in his native country, but he should have work in America too.

The RISK of listing your service work in your home country is that it comes off as one of these "service vacations / mission trips" or as visiting your relatives and trying to claim credit. This means there is some risk of actual backfire.

However -- If you can describe your activity in such a way as to make it clear your service was not of these flavors and that it was something done without an eye towards buffing your medical school application, then I think it has the potential to be very interesting, particularly as you indicate it is an activity of long-standing.

Just do be mindful of the risks -- It would be a shame if something good blew up in your face.

 

[candbgirl]

I thought that too at first but evidently he did this while living in his native country for several years. So while it is a slippery slope type of thing, it was his community while he was doing it. The problem will be in satisfying ADCOMS of this fact.


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[MaxPlancker]

When I interview people for my undergrad institution, my alert radar automatically goes off if they have any activity of an impressive stature that is heavily related to their ethnicity, background, etc. This does not mean that there aren't legitimate people but all too often have I seen kids be the owner/founder/CEO of a charity etc that their parents set up and hardly maintain in a 3rd world country. Be prepared for extra scrutiny though if it is legitimate and impressive, you should not fear.

 

[DingoPingo]

In the USA of A. And best OFF your college campus.
Medicine is a service profession. You need to show us your altruism and humanism. And we're not training you so you can go back to the old country and practice there.

This is interesting. What about things like Peace Corps? And other important service work outside of the US?

 

[ridethecliche]

This is interesting. What about things like Peace Corps? And other important service work outside of the US?

This question lives up to the 'dingo' part of your username.

Of course the damn peace corps counts. It's a known program and isn't a fake charity.

 

[Goro]

RTC beat me to it.

This question lives up to the 'dingo' part of your username.

Of course the damn peace corps counts. It's a known program and isn't a fake charity.

 

[Takamori]

It's a known program and isn't a fake charity.

No one is talking about a fake charity. If you don't know about something, it does not mean it's fake.

 

[Takamori]

When I interview people for my undergrad institution, my alert radar automatically goes off if they have any activity of an impressive stature that is heavily related to their ethnicity, background, etc. This does not mean that there aren't legitimate people but all too often have I seen kids be the owner/founder/CEO of a charity etc that their parents set up and hardly maintain in a 3rd world country. Be prepared for extra scrutiny though if it is legitimate and impressive, you should not fear.

Your alert radar goes on you apparently meant. I understand what you mean, but I'm not a child. Thank you all for responses.

 

[christmasindr]

In the USA of A. And best OFF your college campus.
Medicine is a service profession. You need to show us your altruism and humanism. And we're not training you so you can go back to the old country and practice there.

That's poor advice.

OP, yes, service outside of USA does indeed count if you actually contributed something significant. It doesn't have to be formal programs like Peace Corps. And most admissions don't look down on applicants who have a sincere interest in global health. It can be a strength in your application if you do it right.

 

[Takamori]

That's poor advice.

OP, yes, service outside of USA does indeed count if you actually contributed something significant. It doesn't have to be formal programs like Peace Corps. And most admissions don't look down on applicants who have a sincere interest in global health. It can be a strength in your application if you do it right.

Thank you for a humane attitude, really. I served my society long before I knew I end up living in the US and come to the point of applying to med school. My question was more technical. Like "should I list it and does it count". Anyway, it's a substantial part of my life and who I am.

 

[Goro]

Big difference in interest in global health and what the OP. Service in the Peace Corps is in an exalted class by itself. As mentioned above, most "overseas missions" are about the student, not the people being served, or are outright embellishments, if not outright lies. Not for nothing we call it "medical tourism" The first time I ever heard that phrase was from a pathologist colleague of mine.

That's poor advice.

OP, yes, service outside of USA does indeed count if you actually contributed something significant. It doesn't have to be formal programs like Peace Corps. And most admissions don't look down on applicants who have a sincere interest in global health. It can be a strength in your application if you do it right.

 

[Takamori]

Big difference in interest in global health and what the OP. Service in the Peace Corps is in an exalted class by itself. As mentioned above, most "overseas missions" are about the student, not the people being served, or are outright embellishments, if not outright lies. Not for nothing we call it "medical tourism" The first time I ever heard that phrase was from a pathologist colleague of mine.

My experience was not an "overseas mission". It was service to people who were in need for my help. You call it whatever you wish and I value your opinion the way I want.

 

[Goro]

Put it on your app and see how it goes. That's all you can do.

FYI, I was responding to christmasindr, not your post. Good reading comprehension skills will be needed on the MCAT.

My experience was not an "overseas mission". It was service to people who were in need for my help. You call it whatever you wish and I value your opinion the way I want.

 

[Takamori]

Put it on your app and see how it goes. That's all you can do.

FYI, I was responding to christmasindr, not your post. Good reading comprehension skills will be needed on the MCAT.

Third language, difficult childhood, psychologIcal traumas...what you're gonna do...

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

Third language, difficult childhood, psychologIcal traumas...what you're gonna do...

Im not really sure what you're getting at but you should stop with the self-defeating mentality immediately. Being successful in life comes down to 20% what happens to you (positive opportunities, or negative setbacks and traumas) and 80% how you react to those things.

 

[Takamori]

Im not really sure what you're getting at but you should stop with the self-defeating mentality immediately. Being successful in life comes down to 20% what happens to you (positive opportunities, or negative setbacks and traumas) and 80% how you react to those things.

It was an attempt to be sarcastic. Unsuccessful, apparently, since you didn't get it. I am successful in my life regardless of anything for I never a priori assume that someone is a liar because I respect people. For me it means I am myself a decent human being. I think it's time to wrap up this converstation. Thank you all for valuable input.

 

[Takamori]

.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

It's was an attempt to be sarcastic. Unsuccessful, apparently, since you didn't get it. I am successful in my life regardless of anything for I never a priori assume that someone is a liar because I respect people. For me it means I am myself a decent human being. I think it's time to wrap up this converstation. Thank you all for valuable input.

Ok. Well for what its worth I think it is worth mentioning somewhere.

Apart from the whole training American MDs at American medical schools to practice in America thing....at a minimum just know that while your character may transcend borders and oceans, involvement and education often don't because we can't easily validate their standards or existence for that matter.

 

[Takamori]

Fair enough.

 

[christmasindr]

Thank you for a humane attitude, really. I served my society long before I knew I end up living in the US and come to the point of applying to med school. My question was more technical. Like "should I list it and does it count". Anyway, it's a substantial part of my life and who I am.

If you made significant recent contribution and it is part of who you are, then of course put it in the application and discuss. I see no harm to it.

 

[DingoPingo]

This question lives up to the 'dingo' part of your username.

Of course the damn peace corps counts. It's a known program and isn't a fake charity.

There's got to be a break of logic somewhere here.

Goro mentioned that all service needs to be in the US. Here is his quote: "Service to others needs to be done here." Of course I know Peace Corps counts; but it's not in the US. If Peace Corps counts, then what Goro said was incorrect. You are assuming all service outside of the US is fake charity.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

In whatever my 0.02 is worth, I think if it is something that has genuinely shaped who you are and your motivations, then I see no problem in it. Now this should not be the only volunteerism on your app. You should have stuff in the USA, but by virtue of living in a foreign country before moving to America, I don't see that being a problem. If those volunteering hours occurred prior to moving to America, then I can't imagine somebody saying "oh Takamori did volunteer work in X country before he moved to America, he doesn't want to practice medicine in America because of this." Nor can I imagine somebody questioning your activity simply because it was international volunteering, especially if it's something that you religiously did while living in that country over a course of multiple years.

But I'm not an adcom so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Takamori]

"oh Takamori did volunteer work in X country before he moved to America, he doesn't want to practice medicine in America because of this."
.

oh brother/sister thanks, I really laughed here! I agree with you. I think people just want to motivate me to do smth more than that and here in the US. I appreciate that.

 

[MaxPlancker]

Lol I don't get the problem here. Goro is just saying that usually service done in a particular way is not quite as helpful to the app. It's true that all service is not looked at the same, and the reason for that is how applicants try to get any edge they can get. You can take the advice with a grain of salt and do what you will as with all other advice on SDN. But just FYI, there are so many "fake" cases of international "service" it's not even funny.

The issue is how international service is perceived by adcoms. PeaceCorps is very well-known and does not qualify for the same class of service as medical tourism service trips or even trying to make international service efforts look impressive when they are in truth essentially "made up" (e.g. a lot of Indian kids seem to love having these charities and service efforts that are set up through parents etc that just exist as an empty shell and do nothing).

 

[ciestar]

In whatever my 0.02 is worth, I think if it is something that has genuinely shaped who you are and your motivations, then I see no problem in it. Now this should not be the only volunteerism on your app. You should have stuff in the USA, but by virtue of living in a foreign country before moving to America, I don't see that being a problem. If those volunteering hours occurred prior to moving to America, then I can't imagine somebody saying "oh Takamori did volunteer work in X country before he moved to America, he doesn't want to practice medicine in America because of this." Nor can I imagine somebody questioning your activity simply because it was international volunteering, especially if it's something that you religiously did while living in that country over a course of multiple years.

But I'm not an adcom so take it with a grain of salt.

This. This needed to be said a long time ago!

 

[ciestar]

Lol I don't get the problem here. Goro is just saying that usually service done in a particular way is not quite as helpful to the app. It's true that all service is not looked at the same, and the reason for that is how applicants try to get any edge they can get. You can take the advice with a grain of salt and do what you will as with all other advice on SDN. But just FYI, there are so many "fake" cases of international "service" it's not even funny.

The issue is how international service is perceived by adcoms. PeaceCorps is very well-known and does not qualify for the same class of service as medical tourism service trips or even trying to make international service efforts look impressive when they are in truth essentially "made up" (e.g. a lot of Indian kids seem to love having these charities and service efforts that are set up through parents etc that just exist as an empty shell and do nothing).

Or those "international missions" where the gouge you for funds to even go, you "rough it" for a few days in some foreign country while spending a few hours a day seeing patients, and then coming home and putting it on your app. (This is the medical tourism @Goro was referring to).

 

[Takamori]

For some experience to be fake, it does not necessarily have to be overseas.

 

[ciestar]

For some experience to be fake, it does not necessarily have to be overseas.

Absolutely. Too many applicants lie about their experience hours as well, so many ways to get a leg up on everyone else, the true difference is in a secondary or during an interview how you actually talk about it.

 

[Takamori]

Absolutely. Too many applicants lie about their experience hours as well, so many ways to get a leg up on everyone else, the true difference is in a secondary or during an interview how you actually talk about it.

Yup. And if an ADCOM takes such a priori skeptic approach to what an applicant says in the app, then it undermines the whole idea of PS and other things such as EC. For example, you write that some event affected you in a way that determined your career choice. There's no way to check if the event took place. Then the interview is offered for a creative writing. I can continue, but I guess you got the idea that with that approach the whole populism about altruism, humanism, and desire to help goes to hell.

 

[ciestar]

Yup. And if an ADCOM takes such a priori skeptic approach to what an applicant says in the app, then it undermines the whole idea of PS and other things such as EC. For example, you write that some event affected you in a way that determined your career choice. There's no way to check if the event took place. Then the interview is offered for a creative writing. I can continue, but I guess you got the idea that with that approach the whole populism about altruism, humanism, and desire to help goes to hell.

By the way, I dont see how this could hurt you if you speak about it in the right way and that you've continued service even in a new country (I'd be way out of my comfort zone). That shows the type of person you are. You do you and you'll be fine.