Commuting for gig

[EMhawkeye]

What are your guy’s thought regarding commuting out of state for a job?
Currently have a good hourly in mid 200’s.
Considering commuting from out state. The way I figure it, if I fly there and stay at my crash pad, work 10 shifts in a row (10 hr shifts), come back the next day. That’s only 10 nights a month i’m not in my own bed.

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[southerndoc]

Make sure you won't be taxed twice by the states. Some states require you to pay taxes to them if you work there but don't live there, and some states require you to pay taxes if you live there but work in another state.

Would hate for this to be less money because of double state taxation.

 

[turkeyjerky]

A guy at one of my old shops did this and seemed happy enough w/ it, he's been doing it for 2.5 years w/o any plans to change. Personally I disliked traveling for work way more than I would've thought beforehand.

 

[docB]

You have to make sure your group will have your back on this. This falls apart quick if it gets harder to set your schedule the way you want. My group used to cater to guys that would work nights or unpopular facilities and they could get the 10 in a row you're talking about. When things got tight, even before covid, they cut off the part timers and wouldn't let people schedule the same way so all the guys who were commuting had to bail.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

You should also factor in the travel time and see how that affects your hourly. Considering the day spent traveling to the site, and the day spent traveling back are either wholly or partially “lost” since you both aren’t working or with your family.

How much more are you making at the travel site?

 

[EMhawkeye]

Currently at the job, considering moving out of state to be in the part of the country I want to be but keep a job I like.

 

[Groove]

Currently at the job, considering moving out of state to be in the part of the country I want to be but keep a job I like.

I agree with @docB, make sure the group is copasetic with your long term scheduling plans. Inevitably, over the years, the travelers with scheduling blocks would get shafted once the group filled with local FTEs. Your group/employer will most certainly have a vested interest in replacing you with someone cheaper if they are also footing the travel/lodging/rental car bill. We had a guy commuting from Vegas for years to our SE site and once I was part of administration, I heard the repeated groans over how much he cost with his travel bill and to be on the lookout for the easiest way to replace him in the future. He got his shifts cut over and over again once we got reasonably staffed. You could probably buy yourself a little more time and stability by offering to be a nocturnist for the group. Those are more difficult to replace and your commuting costs might be seen as an unofficial differential of sorts that is justified by your commitment to nights. As @The Knife & Gun Club mentioned, I think it's equally important to factor in the time lost during travel to see if your hourly rate would be much better than what you might find locally. Some people value this different than others and I suppose if you've got loud, young kids at home and a nagging SO, time alone on a plane or in a hotel might be priceless. For me, I hate traveling and I hated living out of a hotel room, so the time would definitely get factored into my rate.

That being said, I don't think it's unreasonable to decide to live in your "perfect place" and commit to locums for the rest of your career. Just be sure that it's something you can tolerate long term. Preferably BEFORE you pull out a mortgage and purchase that dream home/property. I knew a guy from Florida that was one of the smoothest EM docs I've met and he must have been traveling his entire career, at least 20 years. He loved it. I never understood how, but he did.

The only thing that would make me nervous about traveling in this day and age would be the glut of emergency physicians. In years past, you could always find a locums gig. Nowadays, I'm not so sure. It would be terrible to commit yourself to a single location only to find your job not as secure as you hoped and be scrambling in a year or two to find something else. Though, I suppose that could just as easily happen with a local job. I hope it works out for you!

 

[miacomet]

I agree with @docB, make sure the group is copasetic with your long term scheduling plans. Inevitably, over the years, the travelers with scheduling blocks would get shafted once the group filled with local FTEs. Your group/employer will most certainly have a vested interest in replacing you with someone cheaper if they are also footing the travel/lodging/rental car bill. We had a guy commuting from Vegas for years to our SE site and once I was part of administration, I heard the repeated groans over how much he cost with his travel bill and to be on the lookout for the easiest way to replace him in the future. He got his shifts cut over and over again once we got reasonably staffed. You could probably buy yourself a little more time and stability by offering to be a nocturnist for the group. Those are more difficult to replace and your commuting costs might be seen as an unofficial differential of sorts that is justified by your commitment to nights. As @The Knife & Gun Club mentioned, I think it's equally important to factor in the time lost during travel to see if your hourly rate would be much better than what you might find locally. Some people value this different than others and I suppose if you've got loud, young kids at home and a nagging SO, time alone on a plane or in a hotel might be priceless. For me, I hate traveling and I hated living out of a hotel room, so the time would definitely get factored into my rate.

That being said, I don't think it's unreasonable to decide to live in your "perfect place" and commit to locums for the rest of your career. Just be sure that it's something you can tolerate long term. Preferably BEFORE you pull out a mortgage and purchase that dream home/property. I knew a guy from Florida that was one of the smoothest EM docs I've met and he must have been traveling his entire career, at least 20 years. He loved it. I never understood how, but he did.

The only thing that would make me nervous about traveling in this day and age would be the glut of emergency physicians. In years past, you could always find a locums gig. Nowadays, I'm not so sure. It would be terrible to commit yourself to a single location only to find your job not as secure as you hoped and be scrambling in a year or two to find something else. Though, I suppose that could just as easily happen with a local job. I hope it works out for you!

Except there are very, very few locums jobs, and we have no idea if and when that market will rebound.

 

[namethatsmell]

What are your guy’s thought regarding commuting out of state for a job?
Currently have a good hourly in mid 200’s.
Considering commuting from out state. The way I figure it, if I fly there and stay at my crash pad, work 10 shifts in a row (10 hr shifts), come back the next day. That’s only 10 nights a month i’m not in my own bed.

I used to commute to a different state to what I considered my main gig at the time. I'd do 10-12 shifts a month there. They paid for all my travel/hotels. Pay was good, patients and staff were great, and the pathology was excellent.

Then the place was taken over by a CMG that slashed staffing and things went downhill very quickly. Around the same time, my wife had a job change which resulted in her having a lot more free time and so me being in another state for 1/3 of the month sucked a lot more. I did find that being away for only 3-4 shifts at a time was much more doable for maintaining a "home life" than than being gone for 6-7. Anyway, depending on your life situation this may not be a big deal.

Also, how jazzed are you to work 10 straight shifts? I only had to do it once to know I never want to subject myself to that again. By shift 5 I was crispy. By 8 my soul had evaporated. But maybe I'm just weak. Or maybe it was the intensity of that shop since the couple other docs who tried to do a long block a month burnt out fast there. That said, if your shop is staffed well/runs well or is lower volume it may be very doable.

With all this in mind though, if you're set on moving than I think your plan is a good one. While the current job market is now slightly improving, it's still crap overall. Now is not the time to give up a gig that you like. Take the steady income and then search for ways to break into a decent job in/near your new location.

 

[KGflyboy]

I've considered a similar job arrangement. I like my current job but consider moving often. Ultimately I think the travel will take a big toll on my overall happiness with the job.

Also, I would think flying and maintaining a place to stay would cut into any financial incentive you have.

 

[Mbekweni]

Make sure you won't be taxed twice by the states. Some states require you to pay taxes to them if you work there but don't live there, and some states require you to pay taxes if you live there but work in another state.

Would hate for this to be less money because of double state taxation.

Tax law won't allow double taxation. In the case where you would be taxed based on where you live you'll be able to deduct out any taxes already paid. Ie if you work in a state with a 5% tax rate but live in CA with 9.3% tax rate you'd only owe the difference (4.3%) in CA.

 

[Mbekweni]

Also this begs the question of how much you value your time off. Even $300/hr while working sounds great. But between time on flights, being a way from home for days/weeks at a time. I think that time sitting in your hotel room watching HBO is time away from friends and family also has value. I'd personally rather work an extra shift or two per month and be closer to home, working to establish a partnership track etc. I think it works out better in the long term. I love working a 3pm-11pm after I've been able to spend time with my wife in the morning, the go mountain biking or a nice walk, have lunch with a friend and then go to work. Wouldn't give that up for a few dollars a hour. Locums has never made sense to me for this reason. If you have such a terrible local work environment I'd rather move and build a new life.

 

[gutonc]

Tax law won't allow double taxation. In the case where you would be taxed based on where you live you'll be able to deduct out any taxes already paid. Ie if you work in a state with a 5% tax rate but live in CA with 9.3% tax rate you'd only owe the difference (4.3%) in CA.

Is this true with the most recent SALT deduction changes?