COMP NEEDS TO CHANGE, WHAT TO DO?

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As one of a member of the class of 2006, I would just like to extend my deepest sympathies to your class and to the family and individual that passed away. Hopefully, our class will have in place a support network for our fellow class member(s), if and when the time should arise when they need help the most. Again, my deepest sympathies to the student, his/her family, and to the class of 2005 for having had to endure such a dreadful moment.

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CADO2b,

thanks for you sympathies. I initally supported COMP. I didn't want this story being told, due to respect for "BOB", and the negitive impact on the school. But unfortunately, all that was said earlier is completely true. And thats only what has happen in the last 2 weeks. The admin fails to see the difference between the death of a patient you meet for 2 minutes, and the death of a close friend that you have been through hell with for the last year. Thats truely sad. "learning experience"..ya, sure. But not all the professors are bad. Many really care, although they don't make that known or stick up for us when the other professors try to stomp on us while were down.

But we'll get through this without the help of the administration. I was at the memorial service today, and also was disgusted. I can tell you now, the alumni associated had better not be calling me for a donation.
 
I'm sorry that you all had to go through such a sad time while trying to study. As long as the class sticks together and remains supportive, you should be able to get through the year. Best of luck.

water
 
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I am truly sorry for your friend and his family. I am also sorry to say that I am not surprised at the response of the school/administration. This is typical of the response to bad situations which have arisen in the past.

Let me just say that, for those who are current COMPers and for future students, that I don't think that a lack of compassion from the administration should affect your learning of medicine. I would hope that you don't need lectures to learn compassion, but instead have developed it already. The clinical years are where you learn to apply that compassion in appropriate ways and at appropriate times. Please don't let situations like this affect your learning in a negative way. I have found that you can learn something from every teacher you have. Sometimes you learn things you would like to do as a physician, and sometimes you learn things you will never do as a physician. Take this as one of the latter, and try to move on, without forgetting your classmate. Become a better physician through his actions, so that they are not in vain.
 
I just wanted to say how sorry I am to all of you there at COMP for your loss. I know how tight people get in such learning situations, and so how much harder this therefore is.

The feelings, emotions, lessons learned from your fallen brother cannot be touched by anyone else. No administration, good or bad, can take away from the good moments and memories.

Hold on to those wonderful thoughts and try not to just dwell on the 'darker' side of the whole experience. I am sure that your lost classmate would rather that you learn the joy of climbing that mountain, rather then the dark feelings of hate.

Again, I am sorry but glad to see that you all have each other.

Rebecca
 
i know this is insignificant in comparison but i have two brothers that are divorced and i saw how much it influenced their ability to study and focus. My deepest sympathies go out to all of you and an even deeper respect for what you've had to overcome-- while still being expected to perform at a high level. My instant thoughts were on an answer to the question-- what to do to really get the attention of those who could have risen to the occasion and let you all down. While now is the time for healing and unity, i feel that you all were greatly mistreated and feel for all of you.
 
Now that you all know about our situations and concerns, can you answer my original question? Who do you go to when there's no one else to go to? Some class officers did see the executive office regarding our concerns, but it seemed like it made no impact. Someone also mentioned that others in the class have at least "thought about suicide." True, academics is not the only factor in our lives right now, but one cannot disagree that it does play a major role in our lives at this point. The stress level and attitude COMP has towards its students doesn't help the situation either. So if there are answers out there, I'd appreciate it. Here's another post a while ago about COMP:
<a href="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002061" target="_blank">http://forums.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002061</a>
 
COMP's atmosphere does sound pretty depressing, but it sounds like you guys are trying to depend on the administration too much. Your student body is made up of future doctors. Why not use that resource to your advantage? What would you all, as student doctors do, if you had a patient who seemed susceptible to becoming depressed or were already depressed and were talking about comitting suicide? Support, therapy, and medication are the obvious routes to go. A peer advisor system would be one way to start. At my school, all of the second years are assigned a first year as a big sib/little sib program. Perhaps the class officers could set something like this up for your class and all future incoming classes. You can make it clear to all advisors what role they are supposed to play in their advisees academic careers to ensure that everyone has at least one person they can turn to if they get all stressed out. Faculty advisors may also be useful. At our school, student group officers actually seek out a lot of physicians in different specialites who are willing to be an advisor for different students. This is something else you guys can do without administration support. Because you feel like so much of your class is "depressed", an additional step might be to set up academic support groups. People can meet every so often to vent their concerns about school. Another benefit to doing something like this would be hopefully somebody could pick up if someone was feeling suicidal and prevent such a tragedy from occuring again. I'm sure that you guys must have some future psychiatrists in your class that would be interested in running such groups.

In terms of ways of involving your administration, one way would be to make sure that your school has an adequate counseling center that is being utilized by the students that need it. You can lobby your administration if your school does not already have one, and you all can help advertise for your counseling center by putting up flyers and numbers to call for other students who might benefit from visiting your counseling center. With regards of making your professors more "sensitive" though, that probably can't be helped because professors are just people and you will always have some who are more thick headed then others. I remember that at my school, on 9/11, we had one professor who wanted to go ahead with his lecture but he promised to make it shorter then the normal hour lecture. Of course he ends up going on for an hour and fifteen minutes, half the class had deserted the lecture hall by the time that he was finished. With regards to teaching quality, you should try to get the second year class to help out with "teaching" the first years. We have a lot of students who got honors during their first year who serve as tutors for the first years now.

Anyways, I'm sure I could come up with more stuff but I don't see why you all can't brain storm your way out of this as a class together. Remember that the administration and professors only make up part of a school, students make up the other part. Students can greatly effect a school's atmosphere without adminstrative help IMO.
 
I am sorry about the individual in your class of 2005 that passed away. I am equally sorry that JN who was a member of the class of 2004 got drawn. My deepest sympathies to their families.

solid_confusion, honestly, I still do not know what is the problem at COMP. If anyone knows, please spell it out. So far, all I have heard is

solid_confusion posted May 12, 2002 03:21 PM
•••quote:•••.... NO ONE from the outside will understand what the Class of 2005 is and has been going through....There are MANY MANY problems that have and continue to go on ( please do not ask what they are , I can just tell you they are not typical med school problems...it' much more than the "this school sucks mentality"). ••••Please take Slingblade the Surgeon's advice when he posted May 18, 2002 05:16 AM " Surely one of you could log in under an assumed name and post the actual grievances in list form for us to clearly see. Or if someone wants to PM me the list I can post it for I have no fear of retribution. You know...Kinda like FOX, "We Report, You Decide"

Please GO FOR IT. Without knowing the real problem, nobody can help you.

solid_confusion posted May 12, 2002 03:21 PM
•••quote:••• Vet school? Why don't we ask admin where our increased tuition is going...not our program, that's for certain.
••••COMP's tuition is compatible with other DO schools, and quite a LOT less than private MD schools such as USC and LL. It's none of our business where the tuition is going. Are you saying that COMP should not charge what other DO schools are charging? Or COMP should not start its Vet school? What is your point?

solid_confusion posted May 12, 2002 03:21 PM
•••quote:••• Yes, we will continue to fight the ongoing battle, but at this time we've been hit pretty hard by a devastating Tomahawk cruise missle. Something that could have easily been avoided or prevented. The radar is going off, but no one is anouncing! It will take a very long time to recuperate from the damages.
••••I do not know what the ongoing battle is since you never say it. I can assure you that COMP has the obligation to uphold its academic standard. I totally agree with jhug when he posted May 13, 2002 09:23 AM I don't think any school would dismiss students without a great feeling of needing to do so. It really hurts the school to do so. You as a student are an investment now. COMP has a lot riding on you. They provide you the education and you provide them the reputation. What did the administration say this student was dissmissed for??

solid_confusion posted May 21, 2002 02:30 AM
•••quote:•••NOW WHAT HAPPENED NEXT NOT ONLY SHOCKED AND ANGERED ME, BUT MADE ME REALIZE JUST HOW UNCOMPASSIONATE WESTERNU FACULTY AND STAFF ARE. One of our professors got on the microphone and stated that though he knows there is a memorial for Bob occurring, there was a make-up exam for a small number of students to be conducted in the same room the memorial was taking place. He asked us to disperse and when two minutes had passed, while tears were being shed and classmates were still hugging, the professor once again asked us to exit the room knowing that there was another free classroom just next door.
••••Hmmmm, should I blame Dr. Jones for not being compassionate? Or should I ask the student who organized the memorial service why he/she did not check the availability of the room. Why booked the room for memorial services when it was scheduled IN ADVANCE for makeup-exam? What do you expect Dr. Lenz to do/say? You don't expect him to cancel the makeup-exam and pass everyone without taking it, do you? Please put yourself in his position, and in COMP's position. They have a school to run.

solid_confusion posted May 21, 2002 02:30 AM
•••quote:••• Think about this; when the New York 9/11 incident happened our dean said ?We must move on.?
••••President Bush said the same thing. So what else is new? Life has to go on.

solid_confusion posted May 23, 2002 01:14 AM
•••quote:••• Now that you all know about our situations and concerns, can you answer my original question? Who do you go to when there's no one else to go to? ••••Sorry, I still do know about your situations and concerns. What is the problem at COMP?

solid_confusion posted May 12, 2002 03:21 PM
•••quote:••• So back to my original question, how do you deal when you feel no one is listening? Should we seek outside resources? ••••Yes. What is the problem at COMP? You have to say what IS the problem. Is it a civil case, criminal case, or something you have to contact AOA which accredits COMP?
 
There are a lot of bad things about this school, but there are also good things too. Lets face it, most schools have good and bads too. Some of our faculty aren't the best, but some are pretty good. Saying that our faculty is substandard is not fair. Some (most) of the admins are not compassionate, but do you think that every DO school is that much more compassionate? It is very sad that our school is so far from being compassionate that AT Still would turn in his grave, but what can we do?

One thing NOT to do is bad mouth your own school in a public forum. What does this accomplish? YOUR degree reputation is based on your SCHOOL'S reputation. You are only shooting yourself in the foot. If you have a gripe, talk amongst your peers and staff memembers that care (a lot more are out there than you think).

I'm just so tired about everybody talking **** about WU. If you're not happy here, quit.

BJBM
MSIII
 
•••quote:•••I'm just so tired about everybody talking **** about WU. If you're not happy here, quit.
••••BJBM, that's great advice for those COMP crybabies.

What so sad is that they keep on bashing COMP without saying what is really the problem. Or ever thinking whether the problem is self-inflicted. This is med school, do you really expect mouth feeding all the time?

I heard that COMP has some of the very best faculties. For example, Dr. Leo is outstanding. One of COMP's alumus Paul Willis is absolutely excellent. He is teaching ICM at COMP, and he is also teaching at USC.
 
Doctors must be compassionate. That's a given. But, they must also be able to separate personal feelings from staying on track. People die. Things DO move on. You cannot let politics, distractions, and other "grievances" distract you from getting your education. When you lose your first patient in the operating room, what are you going to do...ask for the rest of the day off? No. You have to go back and do your damn job. In this field, you must have compassion, but you also must have nerves of steel. I know it may hurt, it may seem unfair, but that's your life. You chose to go down this path. Life isn't just a box of chocolates. People get screwed, but in the face of adversity, only the truly great succeed. <img border="0" alt="[Pity]" title="" src="graemlins/pity.gif" />
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by BJBM:
•...YOUR degree reputation is based on your SCHOOL'S reputation. You are only shooting yourself in the foot. If you have a gripe, talk amongst your peers and staff memembers that care (a lot more are out there than you think).

I'm just so tired about everybody talking **** about WU. If you're not happy here, quit.

BJBM
MSIII•••••I don't read a lot of threads about other schools, but there DOES seem to be a lot of bitching about COMP on this site. Are students from other schools posting the same problems, or are the COMP students just more vocal.

I see two problems here:
1) the students at COMP, while surely facing a great tragedy, are not coping with the situation well. I agree with the previous poster who said that in medicine you are going to run into some really bad s**t. You have to learn to get past the problems and continue on, without dwelling on the past. Once you are past and have achieved your short term goal, whether it is passing a test or graduating medical school, then you can look back and try to rectify the situation for those coming after you.

2) I know that students at other schools have problems too. Either I am not reading the posts complaining about their problems, or I am wrong about the problems, or the students at COMP are very thin-skinned and are publicly complaining while other students are doing things more privately. I don't know which it is, but I am puzzled by the inequity of postings I have read.

As I said in my previous post, you students have to forge ahead and make the best of a very, very bad situation. Don't let your classmate's pain derail the whole lot of you.
 
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by BJBM:
...YOUR degree reputation is based on your SCHOOL'S reputation. You are only shooting yourself in the foot. If you have a gripe, talk amongst your peers and staff memembers that care (a lot more are out there than you think).
••••If those students are to be dismissed for academic reasons, why do they care about COMP's reputation since they won't be getting a degree from COMP anyway. I will say this though, it is very IRRESPONSIBLE to drag COMP's reputation to the mud for their own failure to succeed in school.

Question raised by Brian J. Loveless:

Are students from other schools posting the same problems, or are the COMP students just more vocal.
IMHO, the COMP students are just more vocal. Trashing COMP won't do anybody any good. Any reasonable person can see those bitching does not hold any water.

I don't know which it is, but I am puzzled by the inequity of postings I have read.
Same here. I am just as puzzled by the inequity of postings I have read. Here's the big contrast: on one hand, I read those disgruntled students saying COMP sucks, don't go to COMP if you can go elsewhere, blah blah blah; then on the other hand, I am extremely impressed with COMP's match list. I looked at UCSD's match list the other day. Even UCSD is one of the very best med school in the country, COMP's match list is every little bit as good as UCSD's, IMO.
 
So the obvious question is "Is COMP really worse than other schools?" I don't think so, having talked with students from other schools both on rotations and at national conventions, and also having discussed COMP's problems with alums I have run into.

As far as good match results, it seems that the problems I hear bitched about on this site has to do with administration who don't really have a direct effect on your learning. Obviously the teaching is adequate, at least as far as pointing students in the right direction for study, and the true problem is in the administration, both in the college and in the university.

For those new students who are thinking they shouldn't come here because the administration is not compassionate enough, I would only say that in the real world you are not going to run into many compassionate people, including the doctors you meet. The key in evaluating a school is the results of their students, both on boards and in the match. You need to think about this decision with your brain, not your heart. Good luck.
 
People die. Things DO move on.

Yes, we are all aware of that. And yes, we all sought for closure. And yes, we are moving on. But the problem here isn't moving on, the problem here is that they're not giving us a chance for closure so that we can move one. We couldn't even get an hour's worth of grievance and remembrance for our fallen colleague. We had to take an exam right after they told us the horrible news. I don't know about you, but it is very difficult to control emotions when it affects you personally. People in the class were crying as they took the exam...it even affected their performance of the exam. We couldn't even get the admin to at least ACKNOWLEDGE, school played some part in his decision to take his life. So at least maybe, they will be a little more sensitive in the future so nothing like this happens again.

So the question is...am I bad mouthing or am I doing others a favor? Do you remember our osteopathic oath? If you recall,
To my college I will be loyal and strive always for its best interests and for the interests of the students who will come after me.

"to my college I will be loyal?"
not if we are not treated with respect

"strive always for its best interests?"
Yes, hopefully they're reading this right now and hopefully they're thinking...we have a business here, and if NO ONE is satisfied, others out there won't be so willing to buy into the product. And, in order to keep the business going, they're gonna have to make some changes.
It's already affecting them because I remember interviews coming in until the last day of April. Traditionally, if I can recall correctly, I interviewed in March and they told me back then that we usually end at this time. It looks like this year, no one wants to accept their acceptance letters to this school. It seems like this is the "backup" school. So maybe by making the public more known about our school, the school might be pressured to make some changes. In the past, we've made our voices known to them but because they already have our money and because we're already "stuck" here, they aren't as willing to make the changes, or at least make us semi-happy.

"for the interests of the students who will come after me?"
You bet that by posting on here, I am abiding for the best interests of the students.
If med school were a complete monopoly, everything would remain stagnant and we'd have no choice but to accept the way things are. But since there are so many other schools out there, we have a choice as to which school is best for us. In my opinion, at this point WesternU is not the best for anyone unless it's the only school they got into. And from the looks of things, it may be like that for the next few years until COMP can gain the reputation it once had when I applied.
 
I am not a COMP student but wanted to say that the situation as described by confusion seems extreme. the last few posts have been unsympathetic and speculated about what other schools do. i can tell you that after 9/11 we had a module exam rescheduled for the med students. it would have been cruel to simply say "hey you are going to be doctors...gut it out...move on". this is not an isolated event, students needs are constantly being accomodated and adjusted for. failing out is virtually unheard of. fail a class then simply "remediate" and move on. my friend attends a large med school in the midwest and has told me about a friend of ours from way back who is about to start his third year after matriculating FOUR YEARS AGO! and he is not alone at this school. lastly at a third school with which i am familiar students have a large input into the decisions made by adminstartion and in shaping of curriculum as well as student body. it seems to me that what confusion has related is simply outrageous based on how other schools run their curriculum. finally if someone is unhappy with the school it is a bit short sighted to simply say "quit". if something stinks and you care about your fellow students and your school you should fight like hell to change it. be vocal. if the staff is unresponsive maybe you should think about going to the press and bringing public scrutiny to the situation there. just my thoughts.
 
It sounds like the COMP administration could be really setting itself for potentially very nasty lawsuit. They seem to have responded to this not only with gross insensitivity but also with negligence.

Suicides tend to cluster. They are not like freak car accidents. Murdering one's self is a violent act. It is directed not only toward oneself but also to those that are left behind.

The COMP administration seems to have acted with callus disregard of the fact.

If another COMP student suicides a clever lawyer could just about wipe the school out financially.

They seem like they are really, really dumb.

Where is Viola Frymann's voice in all of this mess? Isn't she an active Professor there?
 
Unfortunately, Dr. Frymann was terminated by the school this year. I don't know all of the details, but it appears she was investigated by the state because of a negligence claim by a parent of a patient. She was cleared of wrongdoing by the state board, but the school used this as an opportunity to do something they have wanted to do for a long time. They fired her, along with forcing the OMM department to terminate all of the associate faculty by cutting their budget.

COMP has a long history of conflict between the OMM dept. and administration, with Cranial being one large bone of contention. Luckily the department has had a string of strong chairs, so that the curriculum has continued to be one of the most diverse amongst students.
 
I have been reading these posts for the past few days and I would like to reply to solid_confusion?s comments.

I am a member of the DO class of 2004 and have served as President of my class for two terms, so I have worked as a mediator between administrative/staff and the students.

With regards to the details of ?Bob?, I cannot fully comment because I am not a member of your class. However, I can comment on how our class has dealt with administration and staff. Though we have had our battles, overall it has been a positive experience.

I did not appreciate solid_confusion?s use of our classmate?s death (from DO 2004, not DO 2005) as an example to illustrate how uncompassionate COMP is. During our classmate?s death (who GoForIt has referred to as JN), we received OVERWHELMING support from adminstration, staff, and faculty. I can say this because I was in charge of JN?s memorial service. I worked with the different departments of the university to ensure that JN?s memorial service was a success, including scheduling, funding for gifts and pictures to JN?s parents, room reservations, etc. Everywhere I went I was offered support for JN?s memorial and if we needed anything, all I had to do was ask. The University President?s commentary of ?This is a very valuable lesson we have learned today? referred to the lesson of how life is short and we should embrace every minute of it.

I don?t know what the difference is between the handling of JN?s death and the handling of ?Bob?s? death. One thing that solid_confusion noted was the administration of an exam immediately after ?Bob?s? service. However, who reserved that time? Did they check to see what was going on that day? Was there an effort to find out what the schedule was like? I understand and sympathize with those who attended the memorial service?but GoForIt did make a point in that school does move forward. Perhaps there was a communication problem?

Apparently your class is having problems with addressing your issues and you are unable to make changes. I?ve served with great officers of my class and we have been able to voice our concerns and come up with viable solutions that satisfied both parties. Administration and staff want to help (believe it or not) but you have to approach them with a ?working together? ethic. Our class officers WORKED WITH administration, not against them, as you are doing now. Perhaps this is a problem that should be further investigated, rather than placing all of the blame onto administration.

Another comment about your exam. I received a University wide email relaying ?Bob?s? death and the offering of an oral make-up exam if you could not take the exam. The Dean?s comment on students' risk of taking the exam is a reality?.each person has to make a choice in life and take responsibility for their actions. If you decide to take the exam under those conditions and you fail, you cannot expect to be excused. I believe that is a fair statement. Now, could they have delayed the exam? I don?t know?.however, I understand that the Dean did speak with some of you on the Saturday before the exam who encouraged the Dean to move forward with the exam.

Substandard faculty?.interesting label. But that is a very general statement. What is your goal? To be spoon-fed? The reality is that medical school is truly a self-learning experience. Not all faculty members are excellent?.. It is their job to relay the information and our job is to learn from it. Some students say that we should do more board-relevant material. Well, I?m studying for boards now and pretty much everything that I am reviewing we have covered in some fashion. Now, we are taught much more than what is on boards, but we are here to learn basic science and clinical medicine, not just material for boards.

You asked the question ?Am I bad mouthing or am I doing others a favor?? It?s my opinion (and it?s just an opinion) that you are bad-mouthing the university and not doing anyone a favor with your tirades. By posting anonymously about what is going on, what kind of progress are you making with regards to University Policy? You are doing nothing more than creating a negative atmosphere for those who are coming to COMP next year. Why don?t you sit down and figure out what really is the cause of all of your problems. Is administration fully to blame? Are there other ways that could be improved? In addition, by keeping yourself anonymous, you are showing that though you have all of these strong opinions, you are not willing to stand up and identify yourself and do something about it. And if you are not willing to do that, then perhaps you should consider transferring to another medical school. Here is your comment on the purpose of your post:

?Yes, hopefully they're reading this right now and hopefully they're thinking...we have a business here, and if NO ONE is satisfied, others out there won't be so willing to buy into the product. And, in order to keep the business going, they're gonna have to make some changes. It's already affecting them because I remember interviews coming in until the last day of April.?

Do you honestly think that this type of attitude will create changes? If you are passionate enough to write about this, why don?t you come up with some solutions to your problems and contribute to making your changes. Work with your class officers (that?s what they are there for) and see what can be done. I relayed a long time ago to many of the first years when they started that to make changes you have to do it through proper channels and in a non-confrontational matter. Things CAN CHANGE. They have for our class, and they can for yours.
I am not saying that COMP is perfect?no medical school is. But if your agenda is to make changes, this is not the way to do it. COMP Administration is not unreasonable and will entertain any POSITIVE ideas and contributions that your class might have.

And here is my personal opinion about this University: I am happy here. Overall, the majority (there will always be a minority) of our class is content with our time here. Our rotations are numerous and flexible?.for example, the creation of a San Diego rotations block this year. I feel I personally received the education necessary to do well during my 3rd and 4th years, albeit with a lot of independent effort (which is probably a reality at many medical schools). Yes, I am a defender of COMP because there are truly more positives about this school than there are negatives.

For those that are coming next year: Don?t let solid_confusion?s post get you down. Medical school is what YOU MAKE OF IT. Study hard, get involved, and do your best. Try to keep a positive attitude and you?ll do fine.

Arnold Cuenca
MS-III
Western University of Health Sciences/COMP
 
I agree with several of the posters. I don't think that the professors or school administrators are going to teach anything remotely close to compassion to any of the students. This uncaring attitude should only bring the students closer together.

I am likely going to be a student next year. I can tell you that I had very similar experiences at my podiatry school. I was aghast, bewildered and sickened by many of the ridiculous decisions and statements made by our faculty and administration. My feeling when I left was that VERY FEW of the professors really gave a crap about us and NONE of the administrators cared a bit. It's all a money making enterprise. I'm afraid that the same may be said for COMP.

Compassion is something that you either have or don't have. You can't really learn it. So, go on with your medical education and don't let these dolts stand in the way of you becoming the best physician you can be.
 
•••quote:•••aecuenca posted May 24, 2002 03:53 PM

I did not appreciate solid_confusion?s use of our classmate?s death (from DO 2004, not DO 2005) as an example to illustrate how uncompassionate COMP is. During our classmate?s death (who GoForIt has referred to as JN), we received OVERWHELMING support from adminstration, staff, and faculty. I can say this because I was in charge of JN?s memorial service. I worked with the different departments of the university to ensure that JN?s memorial service was a success, including scheduling, funding for gifts and pictures to JN?s parents, room reservations, etc. Everywhere I went I was offered support for JN?s memorial and if we needed anything, all I had to do was ask. The University President?s commentary of ?This is a very valuable lesson we have learned today? referred to the lesson of how life is short and we should embrace every minute of it. ••••I can think of another example showing that COMP's administration is not as uncompassionate as solid-confusion tries to make you believe. Corey A. Ryan was a member of COMP class 2001. He was diagnosed to have cancer. He left COMP for treatment and eventually passed away. At the class 2001 graduation ceremony, Corey's family member was presented with a honorary DO degree to Corey. The compassionate and love atmosphere was extremely touching. I saw tears in the eyes of Corey's family who were on stage, and noticed profound sadness among his collegues. Nothing can be further from the truth that COMP's administration is uncompassionate.
 
If solid_confusion did twist the story, then that's not good. But assuming that everything he said from his own angle, is as true as he knows, then I don't see anything wrong with it.

this is a public forum. If he said something wrong, somebody else can correct. If you disagree with you, then you can go ahead and rebute it.

I personally think that changes are needed in many areas of life. People are too satisfied with status quo. I don't see why people should "move on." People who espouse this view are mixing up some important priorities in life. Life is full of surprises and hence we should all be flexible and understanding about what happens to others. If you are an ER attending in the middle of a trauma case and yet find out one of your colleagues committed suicide half an hour ago, of course you do NOT stop your resuscitation right then and start grieving. But who are we? We are medical "students." If we really stop our school for one day to grieve or postpone one exam, will we be unable to make it up at a later date and let all our future patients suffer just BECAUSE we did not pick up any book for that one day? As a result I see absolutely no excuse that the school cannot shut down for one day or postpone one single exam. As a result, I see no excuse for the prof who kicked people out of that room at time of grieving. It is simply unacceptable.

I also don't see a problem with people being anonymous. Some of you who support the school can sign your name all you want becaues the school won't come after and bite your tail when you try to apply for residency and need that dean's letter. That's not the case for people who criticize the school. If you all want to get on confusion's case for this, why don't you all post the negative things about the school (we all have some negative things to say, right?) and cite a particular professor who has been as$hole to you and sign your name at the end of that post.

In sum, medicine is highly hierarchical and that's why changes are hard to be made (because people higher up can always screw you at every chance they get). Medicine also tends to attract gunners (or people who are serious about their work and let it be their whole life) and hence the attitude that people should simply "move on." I see that while I was on surgery rotation when Sept. 11 happened. I had no time to grieve or let the event sink in because things have to go on as usual. But what is the point of student being there? It is not like we are such an integral part of the team (esp. on surgery) that patients will die without us. I think that in Bob's case, this would be even more personal to the students involved.
 
Thank you very much for those of you who understand. True, regarding the death of the 2nd year the school was very understanding, but that's b/c it happened during Spring Break and the 2nd years had time to mourn and "move on". Too bad the same can't be said for us 1st years. It only seemed that the school was understanding and compassionate to the 2nd years b/c it was not inconvenient for the school. Unfortunately, b/c it was inconvenient in our situation, there was no compassion or understanding by the admin. I only request that you keep an open mind. Of course the students on this board will defend their school, I would too b/c it's my reputation on the line. I'm not concerned about that. I'm concerned about future students that may come here, and that a future or current student may resort to the action "Bob" made to take his life. There have been a number of students in our class who has admitted to "consider suicide" and that's a scary thought. Med school is difficult, but it should not be a high risk for suicide. If any of you still decide on attending this school, I only hope our class officers have made the impact to change the way things are being run here. I also hope that this event will make the school more sensitive to the issues and concerns of the students. For those COMP defenders, I am sorry if you think I am bashing, but my goal here is not to think of my own ass, but to open the minds of potential colleagues b/c I would have liked the same to be done for me. I'm sure you (the defenders) have been very thankful when you have been informed about bad rotations or residencies. I am doing the same here, but for future med students. If you still think that what I am doing is not right, just remember when a 3rd or 4th year informs you about bad rotations or even when an intern tells you that a particular residency isn't that great, and then you'll see my point. What comes around goes around. I've been informed in the future and have been thankful. I'm merely returning the favor. Just like you, I'd like to go to places with the least problems and what's best for me.
 
I am not a COMPer. I applaud COMP administration for being classy not to dignify solid_confusion's negative posts with a reply.

•••quote:•••solid_confusion posted May 24, 2002 12:48 PM

So the question is...am I bad mouthing or am I doing others a favor? Do you remember our osteopathic oath? If you recall,
To my college I will be loyal and strive always for its best interests and for the interests of the students who will come after me.

"to my college I will be loyal?"
not if we are not treated with respect
••••solid_confusion, I thought the oath is UNCONDITIONAL. At least I did not see any condition stipulated there. Are you modifying the osteopathic oath to justify your action? Did you include your condition at the white coat ceremony when you took the oath?

So the question is...am I bad mouthing or am I doing others a favor?
IMHO, you are bad mouthing COMP.

If I may give you one piece of advice, it is "honey catches more flies than vinegar". From the posts in this thread, I can see that your MS2 class gets along much better with COMP administration than your MS1 class. Do you guys ever think that a cooperative approach is much more effective than a confrontational approach?

Your bashing of COMP in a public forum will only make situation worse, not better. Please learn from the MS2 class to make things better for you. COMP administration has a shool to run, and has to uphold its high academic standard. I am sure that they will work with you to improve things. Do try the positive, harmonious way and see better results.
 
GoForIt,

If only you knew. We, as a class have tried to work with the admin, since day one when they scared us half to death with the horrible orientation experience we had the 1st week of school...something the second years did not get a taste of. We've done everything we could think of and our class officers have gone through the right channels. But enough is enough, the admin is not listening at all so we (representatives of our class) went straight to the executive offices and finally voiced our concern. Not surprisingly, they had no clue any of these problems were occurring...especially with the incident that a professor wanted to kick students out for making a mistake on filling in their ID correctly on an exam. Come on, it's a simple mistake, other profs just rescan the scantron when it happens. Does that warrant grounds for complete dismissal and the chance to ultimatley become a physician? If you guys think so, then I hope when you're in residency and you make a simple mistake you're attending dismisses you from the program. It's things like these that we've had to deal with. Our former class president fought very hard to keep these individuals in, even asking advice from other schools. We don't need these extra stresses. We've got enough as it is already. The class has definitely come together and has grown farther apart from the admin. We have done nothing wrong to be treated this way. Here's another story. We've had people dismissed and not allowed to return the next year b/c they did not pass a class or two (Gross anatomy), but with an individual who was dismissed for the year for cheating will be allowed to repeat the year(yes, the individual was caught red-handed on tape, no arguement here). He/she was given another chance...where's the justice in that? I guess people who try hard should not be given a second chance, and people who are dishonest get a slap on the wrist. I don't know about you, but I think there's something wrong here. If you don't think so, then I think you've got a mind just like the admin.
If you want to hear more, I've got alot more to shed on our WONDERFUL school.
 
Hi again,

solid_confusion is right about his/her orientation...from what I understand, it was very hard-edged, blunt kind of orientation with an emphasis of "study and don't fail". This affected clubs across the board because there was little participation/membership from the MS-I's. However, I spoke to the Dean about this issue, and we discussed ways to change orientation. I know that they are taking steps to change it in a more positive direction (I just submitted a funny orientation video filmed with several of your classmates on policy and procedures which will be used next year).

I also wanted to comment on a few things solid brought up. Let's start with the "scantron incident". You are leaving a lot out of the incident. I discussed this particular incident with your 1st semester president (who by the way is a great person...I think he did a great job and it was a pleasure working with him) and he relayed to me that the professor wanted a form of penalization, but asked your class for the input. Remember, professors have the "academic freedom" to run the course the way they want it. Some are lenient, and some are strict; it comes with both positives and negatives. From what I understand, the penalty was not a harsh one, and no one was in danger of being dismissed (this is particularly important to note, because you wrote this in your post). Also, I talked to many of the students in your class about what occured during this exam, and many said that all of you were given numerous warnings to place the correct version on your scantron. Yet, 2 people failed to follow the directions. I suppose the point was a lesson in following directions. Something to think about.

The second comment is about the cheating that occured in your class. Now, I was not asked to sit in the review process (thank goodness because it was a very long process), but one of our officers did. One thing to note is that nothing was caught on tape. I spoke to the class officer about how it was going and according to him/her, (who didn't give many details), things are not "clear-cut" but there was some form of academic dishonesty going on. The point is that there are reasons why and how administration decides to punish students that we are not allowed to know (which is a private matter, not only for the administration, but for the students involved). By law, no one is supposed to know the academic record of an individual (except for school officials...I believe it's the Furper (sp?) law). As far as those students dismissed for anatomy, there have to be reasons for doing so.

Things have been tough for you MS-I's, but it's been just as hard for us as well. Our officers have had many "meetings" ranging from classroom disputes to academic dismissals. But almost all of these meetings came out in a positive direction. So for the person who stated that letting people know who I am is safe, let me assure you that I relayed the opinions and the issues of the class openly. In other words, I put my a$$ on the line for my class. That was my job. But, I have to be sure that both sides of the story are told and to not get my emotions involved in it. My job was to be a representative and to discuss issues with administration on a professional level. And the results were overall positive and fair.

Though I am leaving in about a month, I want to offer any assistance to you or your officers of how you can improve communications between yourselves and COMP. I offered this before to your current president, but was never asked for assistance. This goes to all of the incoming MS-I's as well. If you have any questions, whether it be policy, academics, or just social stuff, just email me at either [email protected] or [email protected].

Things are not perfect at COMP, and I know that solid is just trying to help you see some of the faults of COMP. I'll be happy to share with you the positives of COMP so that you get another perspective.

Keep an open mind and enjoy your summer. You're all going to need it.

Arnold Cuenca
MS-III
Western University of Health Sciences/COMP
 
The way Mr. Confusion describes COMP, you would think the school is actually the tenth level of hell. That is the impression I get. I mean, what is going on there? Is it physical torture, public humiliation?

Yes, it appears your school was insensitive to the death of your classmate. You want to know what can be done? Try writing them a sincere, dignified letter letting them know how the students feel. Maybe it will prevent a similar event in the future. Nothing I can think of will change what happened. Bitching and using it to gather support for your "COMP is a lousy school" platform is disgraceful.

You offer nothing else tangible as to why COMP is mistreating its students. Your basic complaints of "the professors stink, tuition is high, and the administration could care less" are too generic to allow any sensible person to empathize with you. These same sentiments are expressed in most every medical school. Yet every year, thousands of students miraculously make it to the next level.

If you can not get over the mishandling of your classmate's death by your school, seek psychiatric help. If you want advice on other problems you have with COMP, list them and I am certain you will get some valid ideas on how to resolve each one. Otherwise, please spare us your bantering. It is getting tiresome.
 
Mr. Cuenca,
Thank you very much for your input and your willingness to assist us. I, too have many positive things to say about COMP, but unfortunately the negatives outway the positives in our situation. In terms of the scantron issue, the students were not dismissed. However, they had to go on the rest of the semester thinking that they were going to fail the course and ultimately be forced to leave the school. Why, you ask? B/C the same person is chair of the academic progress committee. He is not a fair individual. Example: individual failed his course during the year, he was allowed to take an ORAL (not written, which makes passing completely subjective) during the summer. This professor did not pass the individual. He had to fight hard to repeat the course during the year and ultimately waste a whole year and tuition. I have personally spoken to this individual and to many of the individuals who have been asked to leave, and in all situations, none have been allowed to return except for the individual in this example. So why is it that they dismiss a dishonest cheater and allow him/her to return? Hmmm...strike up another negative for the school. I guess its better to cheat if you're failing b/c if you get caught you'll at least be allowed to return the next year, whereas if you're honest and fail the course, you won't be allowed back.

Mr. Evil,
If you're getting tired no one is asking you to continue reading this post. This post is meant to open up the eyes of future applicants.

I'm sure things will change, but until they don't I'm not recommending this school to anyone in the near future. Just my two cents. Take it with a grain of salt if you wish, I did when the current MSIII's warned me when I interviewed at COMP, and boy...can you say "regret".
 
GOForIt....... You claim you're not a COMPer but you know too much about COMP.... down to the tiny details.

Who are you??? Are you COMP admin?...Spouse of a student??? Just wondering.... (I can handle the truth...i think)

Khanh Pham, D.O.
COMP Class of 2002
 
KP, I am not COMP admin...Spouse of a student. I do attend some of COMP's fund raising events, and know some of its alumni and students. I receive some of COMP's magazines at home.

BTW KP, you look very handsome with your SOMA shirt on :wink: Enjoy your summer now and Boston next year. They have the very best lobster in Boston, especially those two pounders.
 
Solid,

Just lending you my support. I think it sorta naive and condencsing for other students not at COMP to offer some insincere advice and suggest that you are displaying poor behavior. To be honest, for those outside students, you're not there. So before you cast the first stone, lets not forget that you don't know what they're going through and stop judging people without knowing the complete facts/being there.

Second, I hate to preech to you like many other non-COMP students. However, I hope you consider some of the consequences that you are doing. If a pre-ostepathic student is reading this, what would they think of COMP now. May be you can say some positive things as well about the school and not all bad things.
Thank you
 
Solid,

Let's briefly discuss the "biochem student" that you are referring to and the policy of the biochem professor, since the student was a former member of my class.

When a student fails a course, they are immediately sent to the academic review committee. This review is done to acknowledge the student's academic progress and to let the student know to drop all on-campus activites. Whether they repeat the course over the summer is determined at the end of the year. There are many courses that are taken during the year and a student may fail more until they are dismissed (when they fail &gt; 25%, they are immediately recommended for dismissal). So, the students in your class had to follow this policy, which is stated clearly in your student handbook. So is the professor fair. YES. It is the policy that all of us has signed on.

What determines the student's fate of a remediation, dismissal, or repeating the year depends on how they have been doing throughout the year. If they have been getting borderline grades, they may be recommended to repeat the year. If they have been getting A's and B's and this one time was a fluke, they will most likely remediate the course. If they are failing close to that 25% and they are borderline, most likely they will be dismissed. This recommendation by the review committee is sent to the Dean. Once approved by the Dean, it is sent to the Vice-President for final approval. During this time, students have the opportunity to appeal at all levels.

The reason I know this is because I had meetings to help retain one of our students last year. If you want to know more details about what happens during an academic review process, it is detailed under "What's New" on the DO 2004 Website at <a href="http://www.do2004.com." target="_blank">http://www.do2004.com.</a> You have to go back a bit, but the full report is there.

Now, regarding the biochem professor's policy. What you are failing to mention (yet, AGAIN) is that the professor gives many chances (too many I think) for a student to pass. First, there is the initial exam during the year. Over the summer, they are allowed to take a written examination. If they fail that, the are allowed to take an oral exam. If they fail that, the are given a special project to pass the course. Okay, let's count how many chances the biochem professor gives. FOUR TIMES. That's a LOT of opportunities to pass the course. Is this particular professor fair. YES HE IS. MORE THAN FAIR.

As far as comparing your cheater (if I ever find out who that is, I will remember to never send my patients to him/her) and dismissal of others, again that is dependent on many factors as discussed in my previous post. I cannot answer that question, and is a matter of privacy to both the students involved and the University.

From the posts that you have written, I feel that you are either uninformed or misinformed about how things work at this school. I would recommend that you investigate a bit further about academic policy and procedure before stating any generalities.

Arnold Cuenca
MS-III
Western University of Health Sciences/COMP
 
Solid,

I re-read your post again and noticed you said that this biochem student only received on oral exam. He is either not revealing all of the opportunities given to pass the exam, or the biochem professor did not follow his own procedure. (I actually have to admit that the "special project" is hearsay but comes from a reliable source). Otherwise, the method for remediation for biochem is clearly stated in our report on do2004.com. (This report was reviewed by the biochem professor prior to submission.)

Arnold Cuenca
MS-III
Western University of Health Sciences/COMP
 
Acuenca,
Thank you again for trying to clear things up, but unless you have experienced firsthand or unless the professor has changed the way he runs things, he is an unfair individual. I did pass biochemistry with a relatively descent score, however I failed his second exam. I spoke with him PERSONALLY and asked him about his policies b/c I was concerned that I could potentially fail his course. He told me "if you fail this course you may be given another chance to take an ORAL remediation examination, but first you would have to go in front of the academic progress committee". This is not the only professor that has an ORAL remediation exam policy. The musculoskeletal system also falls in this category, which is why no one wanted to defer taking the exam that Monday morning. I then asked the professor "How bad can an oral exam be?" He replied by saying "You don't want to take my ORAL exam, you can EASILY get yourself into trouble, you're best bet is passing the written exam (implying that his ORAL exams are impossible)." So, from MY experience, and the experiences of others who have been dismissed in the class, the professor gives us the notion that we "are in deep sh%@". Of the individuals I have spoken to, they did not fail more than 25% of their courses, they failed only biochemistry and were seriously "asked to leave", not "dismissed", b/c it was in their best interest since some were borderline in gross anatomy...not failing, but borderline. Unless things have changed from your year to ours, our class has been treated like crap since day one at orientation.

Positive things to say...
1. Dr. Leo, kick ass professor
2. OMM department, the fellows
3. class has come together to help each other out
4. Founder's Park(the only green area we have)
which will no longer be there b/c of the Vet
school
5. class skits?
6. the wonderful foodcourt...Subway...Mmmm
7. the huge library
8. the location of the school
9. the big screen TV we have
10.rotations
11.residency match list
12.Introduction to Clinical Medicine course
13.the chance to shadow many clinicians
14.the clinicians brought in to lecture
15.the friendliness of the "STAFF" (not to be confused with faculty or admin)

want more positives?
this should be a given at any medical school
the negatives should not be
 
Now that we have heard some of the "positives" revealed by solid, it would be interesting and a great opportunity for COMP students to begin listing the positives they have encountered. This would be extremely helpful as I am an incoming freshman and am faced with "buyer's remorse" BEFORE I have done the buying. I am currently on two waitlists with one more interview to go, and I must say that I urgently await a phone call from ANY of those of schools. COMP students, here's your chance to shine... If for no other reason, sell us on our own school...
 
Didn't know where to categorize this one, but I guess it depends on the individual if this is considered a positive or a negative:
16. getting caught cheating and only getting a slap on the wrist...well, not really but at least you'll be allowed to return the next year and start over(at least in the last case we KNOW of)...if you're not a cheater and failed honestly, then too bad for you, you get no chances

17. positive: the second years, which we finally are, will help and guide you throughout the year, or at least attempt to. Hopefully our class won't try to make money off you guys, something some of us in the class have already brought up.

18. positive: the gross anatomy lab...only 4 individuals per cadaver

19. positive: the gross anatomy facilitators...they definitely were an asset to our learning experience

more to come...when I can think of more positives
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by solid_confusion:

Positive things to say...

4. Founder's Park(the only green area we have)
which will no longer be there b/c of the Vet
school
•••••What about the large park at the far east end of campus (I forget the name of it right now.) It sems pretty green to me! :wink:
 
Good things:

1. In CA (for me its a good thing :D )
2. We basically OWN Arrowhead Regional (kick ass hospital)
3. Decent rotaions, and someone that knows how to get us more rotations
4. Facilities (nice classrooms, study areas, and a KILLER library)
5. Internet hookups all over the place (gotta get my MP3s ya know)
6. School ownz TONS of the surround land -&gt; more buildings/clinic are comming + massive housing complex
7. Strong ties with the Claremont Colleges (Pitzer)
8. Vet school - brings more "name" to WU (not to mention PA, PT, PharmD, MTPH, Nursing)
9. Good OMM dept (if your into that, not me personally)
10. Some staff members

The bad and ugly
1. Some staff/faculty (nothin' new)
2. Tuition
3. Its in Pomona
4. See 3
5. Too much classroom time (way too much OMM, WAAAAAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much..at least for our class)
6. *Only 3 LOUSY weeks to study for boards (dunno about the other schools)

Thats all I can think of right now off hand.
 
Thinks that would make WU kick ass:

1. Get rid of the "pum" - you all know who he is
2. Kick out the rest of the Loma Linda boys at arrowhead, not too many left anyway - Cuz WU OWNZ Arrowhead! muahahahahhaha
3. 1+ month for board studies (why do they NOT understand the importance of boards??)
4. Pump more money into the DO program instead of the pum's pockets
5. Less classroom time

And the ULTIMATE pipedream:
Move WU to the claremont colleges - once you guys see this school you will KNOW what I mean
 
Some insights that I think may help both sides:
1. Oral exams- Yes, the idea is very intimidating. I had to take an oral anatomy lab practical (mono a mono with one professor) and a essay anatomy exam. Yes, I freaked out with worry (I am a stresser though). When all was said and done, I did very well on the oral exam, and about the same as I always did on the multiple choice exams. If make up exams were publicized as easy, everyone would want to take them. There is some subjectivity in an oral exam, but I found it an easier exam to take with my learning style.
2. Cheating favored?- I think that the student that solid_confusion is talking about is different than the student who failed the biochem remediation. Rumor has it (*notice! I only said rumor*) that an MS1 student was caught on tape cheating on OMM written test and has to repeat the full year. This student is different than the group that went to committee that Arnold talked about.
3. Khan!! Congratulations on graduation! Did you get anesthesiology? (from your Dr. Martin cohort!)
h
 
•••quote:••• Originally posted by solid_confusion:

Positive things to say...
17. positive: the second years, which we finally are, will help and guide you throughout the year, or at least attempt to. Hopefully our class won't try to make money off you guys, something some of us in the class have already brought up.
••••I know that COMP used to pay those second years :D to individually tutor the first years who need help. I do not know whether COMP still pays or not, but you can find out from the admin.
 
•••quote:•••BJBM posted May 29, 2002 06:40 PM

Thinks that would make WU kick ass:

1. Get rid of the "pum" - you all know who he is
••••Do you mean REPLACE the "pum"????? You just cannot get rid of him without having someone else to do the job. I just don't think it would happen.

What do you have against him? Just curious. He seems pretty friendly to me.
 
GoForIt,

Solid is referring to the CD's that the 2nd years put together for the first years to make some money to help pay for board review costs. As for tutoring, yes... you do get paid to tutor.

Eric
 
BJBM Thinks that would make WU kick ass:

2. Kick out the rest of the Loma Linda boys at arrowhead, not too many left anyway - Cuz WU OWNZ Arrowhead! muahahahahhaha
How would that affect LLU's decision to provide PDT to COMP graduates? I would suggest that as long as those LL boys do not make vegetarians out of you, leave them alone.

3. 1+ month for board studies (why do they NOT understand the importance of boards??)
I guess as long as COMP students have such a high percent pass rate on the board, COMP admin thinks that 1+ month is enough. My friend who graduated from AZCOM told me that AZCOM gives students a lot more time to study for the board which is good.

4. Pump more money into the DO program instead of the pum's pockets
Don't be envious of pum. You will earn a lot more than him after your fellowship :D .

5. Less classroom time
I know that KCOM and MSUCOM students have classes year around, and COMP students have the summer months off. I do not know whose students are better off.

And the ULTIMATE pipedream:
Move WU to the claremont colleges - once you guys see this school you will KNOW what I mean

I would bet that WU would move to Colton before it moves to the claremont colleges.
 
Wow.. this is turning out to be a nice, long thread.. and at the current time I can't really comment on everything. I just wanted to offer a few personal statements though.

- "Most" of the actions taken by administration and school in general haven't been anything that I wouldn't expect out of another medical school. Perhaps I'm just used to it from where I've been in the past or from my expectations of medical school as a whole even before I heard of COMP or what a DO school was. I do know that personally I tend to go along the lines of following the rules and going by the book. I see a few discrepancies here and there, but trying to look at things from different viewpoints does make it easier to digest what some seem to complain a little more about.

- Going along with what I said about following the rules, I expect to face the consequences if I don't... and in most cases, I expect the consequences to be across the board. Like I said, that's just how I was brought up... however, I do see it as a possible disadvantage because sometimes the rules are not perfect and they must be questioned or bent in order to make things right. I did think that at the end of the biochemistry/scantron matter, the results were pretty forgiving.

- I actually didn't think orientation was that scary. I don't think it had much effect on me not participating in clubs or organizations, but I did feel that it did affect quite a few of my classmates unfortunately. I was glad to see a resurgence of activity towards the end of school, but it would've been more exciting to see more involvement in the first semester.. even as just a way to take a break from classroom work. I'm glad they're working with admin to change it though because orientations shouldn't appear to be too scary, although I think in general, orientation time for a graduate school can be intimidating.. it's a big step in anyone's life and there are so many things to think about that are mentioned during orientation. Hopefully our class can help foster a positive yet solid attitude that will help the first years get off on the right foot though.

Can't think of what else I wanted to comment on except that I hope my classmates are getting a well-deserved summer break right now. :)
 
GoForIt: I think you GROSSLY underestimate how much the pum makes. From the people I've talked too (higer ups), he makes close to SEVEN figures. For example, this year our tuition went up $3-5k, his salary supposedly doubled. So us making more money...hehehe HIGHLY UNLIKELY. :D

Rumor has it that he is retiring, but it's just rumor. He _seems_ like a nice guy from the times I've met him, but talking to other "people", a lot of people don't like him. From my understanding, he is the sole person preventing further progress of the school (all mighty $$ controls all here). Details are sketchy since it is from a 3rd person source.

Here are some more rumors. These are RUMORS PEOPLE not facts. Supposedly the claremont colleges wanted WU to be a part of them, so they will have their own Medschool/Pharm/PT/PA and especially VET school. It was turned down ofcourse because the board of trustees etc. would loose all power to the school (and prolly $$$). So would it have benefited the students if this went through? HELL YA! We get access to their facilities, research, faculty, etc. But because the people in charge would lose power, there was NO WAY this was going to happen. Once again, this is just rumor!! It could and probably TOTALLY false.
 
The ONLY thing COMP needs to change, is to take me off the Wait-List and accept me into their Class of 2006! I want to go to COMP, bad!
 
Bukowski, best of luck to you. I hope you get in. COMP is a very good school.

BJBM, thanks for the new info. I did not hear that pum is thinking of retiring. If he does, would he turn his job over to his son? I do not know there's anything called nepotism. :rolleyes:

claremont colleges wanted WU to be a part of them, so they will have their own Medschool/Pharm/PT/PA and especially VET school. I thought the five Pomona colleges have their own board of trustee and owners. Besides, I don't see any vacant land big enough for another campus. The space behind Harvey Mudd is too small. I don't know.

Funny thing I did not hear any complain about EFM from MS3/MS4 students. MS3 and MS4 students are required to attend EFM classes two weekends each year (actually half day Friday, whole day Saturday and half day Sunday). Because MS3/MS4 do their rotations at different locations each month (unless you are on a block) and sometimes out of town, they do not keep their apartments near campus. Students might experience inconvenience to attending EFM classes. You have to make arrangement to take Friday off from your rotation so you can come back in the morning and attend the afternoon half day class. You learn EFM and take exams right after. You have to make accommodations arrangement for these few days, could cost plenty if you have to fly, stay in a hotel and rent a car. Sometimes attending the EFM classes make it difficult for you to make living accommodations for the next rotation especially when the next rotation starts the following Monday.
 
yea, not to mention disgruntledlessnessness
 
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