Comparing NYC Programs

[robotsonic]

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I want to stay in New York City for residency, so I am trying to do as many interviews here as possible. However, since I plan on doing a few interviews outside the city, I need to figure out which NYC interviews to drop (assuming I get all of them 😉 ). I’ve been going through them and trying to compare, but I don’t know too much about some of them, so hopefully someone can help me.
I’ve listed them out and given comments. Please add anything you know about these programs. Thanks!

Columbia – I will of course do this interview
Cornell – of course, again
Mt Sinai – of course
NYU – yes (even though I’m worried about the reputation)

Ok, now for the ones I could potentially drop:

Einstein (Bronx) – will do this interview, even though the location kind of sucks

Einstein Beth Israel – not as strong as the one in the Bronx, but would still allow opportunities for research (right?)

Lenox Hill – community program and not great operating experience (the residents average 775 cases, much lower than other places here), would be difficult to do research, thinking about dropping this one

NYMC St Vincent’s – I’ve heard it's not so bad academically, can anyone back this up?, also heard that there would be opportunity for research

SUNY Brooklyn – location sucks, the reviews on scutwork.com are awful, but there would be opportunity for research

St-Luke’s Roosevelt – ok place, not as academically oriented, would be hard to do research

 

[Bovie9]

St. Luke's Roosevelt sends 2/5 residents each year (after the 3rd year) to the lab for at least one year. One of our residents just completed an excellent 2 years at Memorial doing colorectal research. It is certainly not the most academic program in the city, but I can say that it provides for more of a mix than probably the rest of the mid-sized programs in the city.

Additionally, it has got to be the most non-malignant program around, where about 90% of the attendings know the interns by name. The teaching is great, both in and out of the OR. The directors and associate directors really make a consistent and strong effort to teach residents. I didn't know much about St. Luke's-Roosevelt going into the interview game, but I ended up ranking it #1 in the end (as did quite a few other residents). So I have taken the liberty and changed your description.

If you are determined to stay/be in NYC, sure- interview at the big programs, but you should absolutely at least interview at St. Lukes Roosevelt before you make up your mind.

I want to stay in New York City for residency, so I am trying to do as many interviews here as possible. However, since I plan on doing a few interviews outside the city, I need to figure out which NYC interviews to drop (assuming I get all of them 😉 ). I’ve been going through them and trying to compare, but I don’t know too much about some of them, so hopefully someone can help me.
I’ve listed them out and given comments. Please add anything you know about these programs. Thanks!

Columbia – I will of course do this interview
Cornell – of course, again
Mt Sinai – of course
NYU – yes (even though I’m worried about the reputation)

Ok, now for the ones I could potentially drop:

Einstein (Bronx) – will do this interview, even though the location kind of sucks

Einstein Beth Israel – not as strong as the one in the Bronx, but would still allow opportunities for research (right?)

Lenox Hill – community program and not great operating experience (the residents average 775 cases, much lower than other places here), would be difficult to do research, thinking about dropping this one

NYMC St Vincent’s – I’ve heard it's not so bad academically, can anyone back this up?, also heard that there would be opportunity for research

SUNY Brooklyn – location sucks, the reviews on scutwork.com are awful, but there would be opportunity for research

St-Luke’s Roosevelt – middle-sized program with great teaching/attendings, not at all malignant, mixed community-university environment, opportunity for a lab year after PGY 3, great location/housing

 

[robotsonic]

Bovie9,

Thanks! I was hoping to hear from residents at these programs but wasn't sure if I would be lucky enough. I didn't know that 2 of the residents each year got to do research. How is it decided which 2 will do research? Doesn't everyone want to do a year of research? Or is that not an issue?

St. Luke's Roosevelt sends 2/5 residents each year (after the 3rd year) to the lab for at least one year. One of our residents just completed an excellent 2 years at Memorial doing colorectal research.

 

[Bovie9]

No, actually not everybody wants to do a research year. Residents seem to match pretty well irrespective of an actual research year, and not everybody is interested in an academic career. Some enjoy it- so it usually just ends up working out.

If you have any questions about the program please feel free to send me a private message.. & good luck with interview season

Bovie9,

Thanks! I was hoping to hear from residents at these programs but wasn't sure if I would be lucky enough. I didn't know that 2 of the residents each year got to do research. How is it decided which 2 will do research? Doesn't everyone want to do a year of research? Or is that not an issue?

 

[exlap]

If you're academic-minded, then you definitely want to go to a big university program. Unless you want to do Pediatric Surgery, Surgical Oncology, Plastics you're not required to do research. If you're interested in Peds Surg, you'll definitely have to go to a program with a Peds Surg fellowship or some sort of inside connection. Only 30 fellowship spots a year around the country.

Columbia is probably the best program in NYC, but it's also a demanding program. Listed as a 5 year program, but most residents do 7 years.

Cornell is 5 years with many doing research. Mostly private patients.

Sinai don't know much about.

NYU is reportedly malignant and old school. But still good training and will always have good reputation.

If you're looking for a nice lifestyle, then I think you'll like St Lukes/Roosevelt in NYC. It's link to Columbia is only in name, so it's essentially a community program in a big city. Still, it offers a good caseload and nice working environment. A benefit is also housing right in the 50's on the west side.

Einstein/Montefiore is the largest residency system in the Bronx. Surgery residents rotate through 2 city hospitals (including Jacobi) and 2 private institutions. Attendings are mostly clinically oriented. Benefits are really cheap housing ($400 studios) right next to the hospital, meal cards, $600 stipends per year, one of the highest paying residencies. They send 1-2 residents per year into research, with at least one going to Sloan-Kettering.
All graduating chiefs go into fellowships. Chiefs in the past 2 years have been sent to MD Anderson for Surgical Oncology (2!), Plastics, Vascular at Cornell, Head and Neck at Sloan-Kettering, Laparoscopic, CT.

SUNY-Brooklyn. Don't have much to say about it.

St. Vincent's. Ditto.

 

[ivan lewis]

Cornell is not a 7 year program. Many residents choose to go straight through.

 

[exlap]

You're correct. My mistake.

Cornell is not a 7 year program. Many residents choose to go straight through.

 

[robotsonic]

I've been talking with more attendings about this, and I'm going to modify a few things.

NYU: so malignant that I shouldn't have even applied (despite this, I will do the interview if I get one)

Einstein (Bronx): they have lost some of their best people in the last few years and this has negatively affected the program; the physicians are unable to build a private practice there so they are not as committed to staying with the hospital

Lenox Hill: way too community for me; should not have applied

St Luke's Roosevelt: everyone backs up what bovie9 said; seems like a good program

I still don't know much about Einstein Beth Israel or SUNY downstate. Anyone have an opinion?

 

[exlap]

Definitely interview at NYU if you get the invite. At least you'll know firsthand.

Einstein (Bronx) - Lost a technically amazing laparoscopic surgeon to Roosevelt, and he took his fellows with him...but then again, he would do all the lap surgeries with the fellows (mostly lap gastric bypass), which meant very little teaching/operating for residents. The chairman recently left. He was big into liver radiofrequency ablations. Had a basic science lab. Not much resident exposure.

Beth Israel (Einstein) - Not strong on academics. Old hospital. Used to have 2 divisions, but closed BI (North) last year. Leadership changes. One benefit is being in the heart of Union Square.

SUNY Downstate - Not in its best of times, from what I hear.

I've been talking with more attendings about this, and I'm going to modify a few things.

NYU: so malignant that I shouldn't have even applied (despite this, I will do the interview if I get one)

Einstein (Bronx): they have lost some of their best people in the last few years and this has negatively affected the program; the physicians are unable to build a private practice there so they are not as committed to staying with the hospital

Lenox Hill: way too community for me; should not have applied

St Luke's Roosevelt: everyone backs up what bovie9 said; seems like a good program

I still don't know much about Einstein Beth Israel or SUNY downstate. Anyone have an opinion?

 

[izz-ay]

Definitely interview at NYU if you get the invite. At least you'll know firsthand.

Einstein (Bronx) - Lost a technically amazing laparoscopic surgeon to Roosevelt, and he took his fellows with him...but then again, he would do all the lap surgeries with the fellows (mostly lap gastric bypass), which meant very little teaching/operating for residents. The chairman recently left. He was big into liver radiofrequency ablations. Had a basic science lab. Not much resident exposure.

Beth Israel (Einstein) - Not strong on academics. Old hospital. Used to have 2 divisions, but closed BI (North) last year. Leadership changes. One benefit is being in the heart of Union Square.

SUNY Downstate - Not in its best of times, from what I hear.

re: Suny Downstate- what does "not th best of times" mean?
Also, anyone have any thoughts on NY Hospital Med/ Cornell

 

[DocSNOW]

I am a surgical resident at Lenox Hill. I interviewed at all of the programs that you have listed when applying a few years ago, and hence thought about them all as you will.. You are right, Lenox Hill is predominantly a community based program. I must admit, when comparing other programs with the little information you have it sounds like one to drop (as I almost did, then ended up ranking high). Since I know how hard things are I will attempt to shed some light on LHH for those interested.

First and foremost, our operative experience is top notch, and I will go as far as to say better than the large academic centers.

The numbers that you have must be old, our chief resident last year graduated with well over 1000 cases, and I know for a fact that he stopped logging them mid year. They also reflect a 6 month research sabattical taken within the 5 year residency that was a requirement until last year.

Both chief residents last year matched into NCI accredited Surgical Oncology Fellowships, among the most coveted and competitive fellowships to obtain after G Surg residency.

There are NO fellows at LHH, Hence, all minimally invasive procedures (including laprascopic bypass) are covered by surgical residents, as well as all vascular procedures, open, endovascular, colon and rectal, and thoracic cases. In fact, it is a shame, but we often have to send our PA's to cover the overflow minimally invasive and thoracic cases because we just do not have enough residents.

The level of operative advancement is fast at LHH, by the second PGY year you are confident doing uncomplicated simple laprascopic surgery, (cholecystectomy, laprascopic appendectomy). As a PGY 2, I had done no less than 10 thoracotomies, including a total pneumonectomy (by MID second year).

Our program is small, only 2 categorical residents per year, but we are a tight knit, and friendly group. Our department chair is Dr. Richard Green, former chair of the American Vascular Society, and world renowned. We are on the cutting edge of endovascular surgery and are doing procedures here that have not been described yet.

Our didactics at Lenox Hill are indeed weak. You must be a self directed learner to survive here. The basic science/clinical science lecture 1 time per weak is in my humble opinion a waste of time. Our weekly morbidity and mortality conference is hot and cold as far as educational value, and our weakly vascular conference is among the most useful, valuable, and informative conferences you can ask for as a resident. There will most likely be changes to these conferences for any incoming resident, but for now, they stand as what they are.

We are responsible for teaching and evaluating medical students as well. The hospitals official academic teaching affiliation is with New York University, although oddly enough the medical students we see on a monthly basis are almost exclusively from the State University of New York at Brooklyn. As well as our sub interns from all around.

As of now, our away rotations are the following, Burn is at NYH-Cornell. Transplant - NYU Tisch, Trauma - King's County (Brooklyn the last hold out of penetrating trauma in NYC).

So in summary, LHH provides excellent clinical teaching, in a community type setting. If you are looking to become chair of a department of surgery, then Cornell is the certainly the palce to go. I happy to answer any questions anyone may have as I know there is a paucity of information. Good luck on the match all.

 

[JKP]

Should we include:

North Shore - LIJ
Sound shore
Westchester Co Med Ctr
Stonybrook
Nassau Co.
Jamaica
Brookdale
Methodist-Brooklyn
NYH-Queens
Cabrini
SIU