Compensation in High Tech

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DIPEA

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For those of people who are either deliberately ignorant or loves pharmacy to death, please do yourself a big favor and just skip this post~ You guys are not going to like the reality, or find any kind of satisfaction reading this.



Joma is someone I have followed for a quite some time on youtube, and FYI, he has a cs bachelor from uwaterloo and graduated in 2016. He had his first data scientist job right out of college at Facebook. And in one of his videos, he claimed his entry-level pay at Facebook was around 200k a year. He stayed there for 3 years, and recently he switched job to one of the FAANGULTAD for a SWE role.

For those who don't want to watch the full 14 minutes video, his new job has a total compensation of 278k annually, including the signing bonus.

If you want to think he's an outlier, maybe, but this is actually quite consistent with what I have been hearing from a lot of my cs friends.

For reference, in Silicon Valley's Mountain View, where the Apple campus is located, median home is priced around $1.6 million dollars. And for San Jose, which is like 15 minutes drive to Mountain View, the median 3-bedroom single house is priced around 1 million.

As pharmacy is going straight down the sink, for those of you who are still young and motivated enough and wishing to get out of the s**tty pharmacy environment and crappy pay, maybe this can help you brainstorm a little, maybe not. But I think it may worth a try, definitely not for all, but at least for some.
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Graduating with good enough grades to land those jobs is on par with getting into med school. Only 40% of freshman engineering students graduate engineers. The mean gpa of those graduates is a 2.7 at most big schools. If you graduate without a 3.0 your not getting into grad school right away and your going to be working in a small town because it was cheap to put a factory there. It doesn't really matter what school you go to for engineering, they are all tough and rigorous. All that matters is that you keep your grades above a 3.0 which statistically is very tough to do.
 
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redfish955 said:
Graduating with good enough grades to land those jobs is on par with getting into med school. Only 40% of freshman engineering students graduate engineers. The mean gpa of those graduates is a 2.7 at most big schools. If you graduate without a 3.0 your not getting into grad school right away and your going to be working in a small town because it was cheap to put a factory there. It doesn't really matter what school you go to for engineering, they are all tough and rigorous. All that matters is that you keep your grades above a 3.0 which statistically is very tough to do.
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All us mid to late 00s pharmacy grads that needed a 3.5 to even get an interview are laughing at this.
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
All us mid to late 00s pharmacy grads that needed a 3.5 to even get an interview are laughing at this.
Click to expand...

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Getting into Pharmacy School is Now Dangerously Easy

Getting into pharmacy school may seem like a means to a high-earning job. But a pharmacist career might not be all that you think. Read more.
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According to this 50% of applicants got into pharmacy school in the late 00s while only 40% of freshman engineers were still engineers after their freshman year.
 
DIPEA said:
For those of people who are either deliberately ignorant or loves pharmacy to death, please do yourself a big favor and just skip this post~ You guys are not going to like the reality, or find any kind of satisfaction reading this.



Joma is someone I have followed for a quite some time on youtube, and FYI, he has a cs bachelor from uwaterloo and graduated in 2016. He had his first data scientist job right out of college at Facebook. And in one of his videos, he claimed his entry-level pay at Facebook was around 200k a year. He stayed there for 3 years, and recently he switched job to one of the FAANGULTAD for a SWE role.

For those who don't want to watch the full 14 minutes video, his new job has a total compensation of 278k annually, including the signing bonus.

If you want to think he's an outlier, maybe, but this is actually quite consistent with what I have been hearing from a lot of my cs friends.

For reference, in Silicon Valley's Mountain View, where the Apple campus is located, median home is priced around $1.6 million dollars. And for San Jose, which is like 15 minutes drive to Mountain View, the median 3-bedroom single house is priced around 1 million.

As pharmacy is going straight down the sink, for those of you who are still young and motivated enough and wishing to get out of the s**tty pharmacy environment and crappy pay, maybe this can help you brainstorm a little, maybe not. But I think it may worth a try, definitely not for all, but at least for some.
Click to expand...

bro he self taught himself... software engineering from data thats what Im preaching...
 
This is an outlier case definitely. The location you want to work at plays a huge role in the pay. I actually entered undergrad as comp sci but strayed out of it cause math turned out to be my absolute worst subject. From what my friends who stayed the path and are working now in NY, some of them are just getting contract jobs so their yearly revenue is all over the place, anywhere from $80k-160k a year depending on the contracts they get the year, 1 hovers around 120k~ a year mainly because he switches companies often from the companies relying on popularity to maintain a high wage (if they are doing poorly that year and they are layoffs and more stress for the remaining workers) and a few I lost touch with since they had to leave the state to find a job that would match the cost of living in the area.

Being near California, I'd expect a higher wage compared to other areas cause well..It's the most expensive part of the US.
 
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angelsplight said:
This is an outlier case definitely. The location you want to work at plays a huge role in the pay. I actually entered undergrad as comp sci but strayed out of it cause math turned out to be my absolute worst subject. From what my friends who stayed the path and are working now in NY, some of them are just getting contract jobs so their yearly revenue is all over the place, anywhere from $80k-160k a year depending on the contracts they get the year, 1 hovers around 120k~ a year mainly because he switches companies often from the companies relying on popularity to maintain a high wage (if they are doing poorly that year and they are layoffs and more stress for the remaining workers) and a few I lost touch with since they had to leave the state to find a job that would match the cost of living in the area.

Being near California, I'd expect a higher wage compared to other areas cause well..It's the most expensive part of the US.
Click to expand...
You are speaking in data now. Outliers indeed. not everyone can self study, or get into these programs. I know two pharmacist that got into tech without a tech degree, no classes or self studying either. Def outliers You can find the data on gpa and hours of study, you just need 20 hours or 10 for to maintain a 3.8 gpa. I did 45 hours a week
 
redfish955 said:
Graduating with good enough grades to land those jobs is on par with getting into med school. Only 40% of freshman engineering students graduate engineers. The mean gpa of those graduates is a 2.7 at most big schools. If you graduate without a 3.0 your not getting into grad school right away and your going to be working in a small town because it was cheap to put a factory there. It doesn't really matter what school you go to for engineering, they are all tough and rigorous. All that matters is that you keep your grades above a 3.0 which statistically is very tough to do.
Click to expand...
well, I basically took all the engineering core courses, all the math, stats, physics, with engineering students, up to 3rd year, and I had straight As in those courses, except differential equation :dead:, which I narrowly missed and had B+. FAANG recruit at my undergrad btw.
 
Lubeckd said:
bro he self taught himself... software engineering from data thats what Im preaching...
Click to expand...
it is actually quite easy to transition back and forth. the algorithm is the same, math is already there if foundation is solid. the rest is basically all over the internet~
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
All us mid to late 00s pharmacy grads that needed a 3.5 to even get an interview are laughing at this.
Click to expand...

Lol so true. 1490 on SAT and counselor said I had to get extracurriculars and sht.
 
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DIPEA said:
it is actually quite easy to transition back and forth. the algorithm is the same, math is already there if foundation is solid. the rest is basically all over the internet~
Click to expand...
bro there is no math in software engineering, and you dont use algos, you use libraries.
the interviews are all algos
Honestly my algos are all trading related. They wanted basic bs on algos
 
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angelsplight said:
This is an outlier case definitely. The location you want to work at plays a huge role in the pay. I actually entered undergrad as comp sci but strayed out of it cause math turned out to be my absolute worst subject. From what my friends who stayed the path and are working now in NY, some of them are just getting contract jobs so their yearly revenue is all over the place, anywhere from $80k-160k a year depending on the contracts they get the year, 1 hovers around 120k~ a year mainly because he switches companies often from the companies relying on popularity to maintain a high wage (if they are doing poorly that year and they are layoffs and more stress for the remaining workers) and a few I lost touch with since they had to leave the state to find a job that would match the cost of living in the area.

Being near California, I'd expect a higher wage compared to other areas cause well..It's the most expensive part of the US.
Click to expand...
I was the opposite of you kinda~ always good at math but I was kinda pushed into healthcare by my parents.
You are right about the location. Just like pharma, east or west coast, the rest is barren land.
tech is highly concentrated on the west coast though. last time amazon tried to establish HQ2 at NYC, it was shot down by AOC and those union advocates :rolleyes:
 
DIPEA said:
I was the opposite of you kinda~ always good at math but I was kinda pushed into healthcare by my parents.
You are right about the location. Just like pharma, east or west coast, the rest is barren land.
tech is highly concentrated on the west coast though. last time amazon tried to establish HQ2 at NYC, it was shot down by AOC and those union advocates :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Anyways like I said rockstars were investment bankers, then healthcare after recession, now this. You will just run from one area to the next.
 
redfish955 said:
www.studentloanplanner.com

Getting into Pharmacy School is Now Dangerously Easy

Getting into pharmacy school may seem like a means to a high-earning job. But a pharmacist career might not be all that you think. Read more.
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According to this 50% of applicants got into pharmacy school in the late 00s while only 40% of freshman engineers were still engineers after their freshman year.
Click to expand...

I think my school had 450 interviews for 80 spots the year I got accepted.
 
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How Investment Banks Recruit
Investments Banks, unfortunately, recruit based primarily on relationships:
  1. Did you go to school where we recruit? (40%)
  2. Do I know you personally? (25%)
  3. Have you done investment banking before? (20%)
  4. Can you meet with me 3 times and not be weird? (15%)
www.wallstreetoasis.com

Is investment banking not as prestigious as most people think? Are kids that break in sub-par?

I think we've all already come to the conclusion that Investment Banking certainly doesn't pay as well as it used to when you adjust for the cost of living, but is it still
www.wallstreetoasis.com www.wallstreetoasis.com

Let's be honest, the reason 90% of people think investment banking is cool, is because it sounds cool (even to people who aren't in finance).

which means you dont need to be in m7 for mba here
 
Lubeckd said:
How Investment Banks Recruit
Investments Banks, unfortunately, recruit based primarily on relationships:
  1. Did you go to school where we recruit? (40%)
  2. Do I know you personally? (25%)
  3. Have you done investment banking before? (20%)
  4. Can you meet with me 3 times and not be weird? (15%)
www.wallstreetoasis.com

Is investment banking not as prestigious as most people think? Are kids that break in sub-par?

I think we've all already come to the conclusion that Investment Banking certainly doesn't pay as well as it used to when you adjust for the cost of living, but is it still
www.wallstreetoasis.com www.wallstreetoasis.com

Let's be honest, the reason 90% of people think investment banking is cool, is because it sounds cool (even to people who aren't in finance).

which means you dont need to be in m7 for mba here
Click to expand...
I had only a few friends in IB, so I can't speak too much on that.
but I have occasionally heard some complaints from people in finance and consulting complaining long long working hours.
recently a few news articles have been reporting millennials leaving finance or consulting on the east coast for tech on the west, for better hours and work life balance.
 
Lubeckd said:
In this case the guy in the video had a lot of exit ops from data to project manager where he doesnt code then to software engineering
Click to expand...
he's doing part-time startup and youtubing. now programming and interview training with another ex google tech lead.
 
DIPEA said:
I had only a few friends in IB, so I can't speak too much on that.
but I have occasionally heard some complaints from people in finance and consulting complaining long long working hours.
recently a few news articles have been reporting millennials leaving finance or consulting on the east coast for tech on the west, for better hours and work life balance.
Click to expand...
the m7 people arent going for investment banking anymore
 
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remember these people are outliers, you can find them in pharmacy too
 
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DIPEA said:
I don't know about my school numbers, but the avg pcat score at my year was 95 composite.
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you wont hear investment banking easy, lots of suicides.

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well my gpa was mid, and pcat was mid, out of 200 seats 50 were for transfer students. So I guess I made it :)
It was 3.4 entering pharmacy school
I had a 3.3 in pharmacy school, they gave me a 3.4 rounded up. my PCAT was 65
 
The defense contractors that require a security clearance are paying absurdly well right now. We're talking 130k-200k ten years out of school and we're not talking about outliers either. Most engineering schools will let you take about 8 classes and then do a masters if you already have any sort of degree. Not to mention you can find jobs like this in the south or midwest where cost of living is very low.
 
redfish955 said:
The defense contractors that require a security clearance are paying absurdly well right now. We're talking 130k-200k ten years out of school and we're not talking about outliers either. Most engineering schools will let you take about 8 classes and then do a masters if you already have any sort of degree.
Click to expand...
cybersecurity, a lot of china/russia hacking. Fintech and banks
 
redfish955 said:
The defense contractors that require a security clearance are paying absurdly well right now. We're talking 130k-200k ten years out of school and we're not talking about outliers either. Most engineering schools will let you take about 8 classes and then do a masters if you already have any sort of degree. Not to mention you can find jobs like this in the south or midwest where cost of living is very low.
Click to expand...
i guess, like edward snowden? :p he is only a high school grad and made well over 6 figures a decade ago.
 
Lubeckd said:
cybersecurity, a lot of china/russia hacking. Fintech and banks
Click to expand...

Actually mechanical, electrical, and computer pay like that. At Purdue all you need is a math sequence and like 6 classes to do a masters in mechanical engineering.
 
Lubeckd said:
cybersecurity, a lot of china/russia hacking. Fintech and banks
Click to expand...
cool, gatech actually has a cybersecurity master as well. since their degrees are all dirt cheap, i will think about it :D
 
I get why you guys are excited about jumping into tech while it's "hot", but I'll pass on the career whack-a-mole. I worked with a pharmacist who originally went into IT in the early 2000's but there was a market saturation issue (allegedly) so he made the switch to pharmacy (when it was "hot"). If he had stayed in IT, he wouldn't be a floater pharmacist in a saturated pharmacy market. Why not apply your interests in data/tech to non-traditional pharmacy/healthcare careers?

If getting into tech is as easy as taking free online coding courses, or grabbing a masters/bs, how long do you think the gravy train will last? especially if these jobs can be outsourced to Indian companies for literal pennies on the dollar lol. With all this talk of sign-on bonuses, company stocks, $100K+ salaries, it all sounds oddly familiar :rolleyes:
 
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Seriously Serious said:
I get why you guys are excited about jumping into tech while it's "hot", but I'll pass on the career whack-a-mole. I worked with a pharmacist who originally went into IT in the early 2000's but there was a market saturation issue (allegedly) so he made the switch to pharmacy (when it was "hot"). If he had stayed in IT, he wouldn't be a floater pharmacist in a saturated pharmacy market. Why not apply your interests in data/tech to non-traditional pharmacy/healthcare careers?

If getting into tech is as easy as taking free online coding courses, or grabbing a masters/bs, how long do you think the gravy train will last? especially if these jobs can be outsourced to Indian companies for literal pennies on the dollar lol. With all this talk of sign-on bonuses, company stocks, $100K+ salaries, it all sounds oddly familiar :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
That's what I was trying to say
 
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Clearance jobs. Must be U.S. citizen with a clean record. Credit, arrests, and ect. Get to pick the engineering subject so you can totally nerd out at work. It is cyclical but it's pretty tough to beat.
 
Seriously Serious said:
I get why you guys are excited about jumping into tech while it's "hot", but I'll pass on the career whack-a-mole. I worked with a pharmacist who originally went into IT in the early 2000's but there was a market saturation issue (allegedly) so he made the switch to pharmacy (when it was "hot"). If he had stayed in IT, he wouldn't be a floater pharmacist in a saturated pharmacy market. Why not apply your interests in data/tech to non-traditional pharmacy/healthcare careers?

If getting into tech is as easy as taking free online coding courses, or grabbing a masters/bs, how long do you think the gravy train will last? especially if these jobs can be outsourced to Indian companies for literal pennies on the dollar lol. With all this talk of sign-on bonuses, company stocks, $100K+ salaries, it all sounds oddly familiar :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
you are right from that perspective, BUT thinking and trying outside of pharmacy is still the safest way to go. What else do you recommend to the young, upcoming future pharmacists, with no job prospects? Hoping APHA or ACPE to start having morals and cut down enrollment numbers and close schools?

Doing something to jump ship when you still can is way much better than just watching the ship sinking and go along with it :rolleyes:
 
Seriously Serious said:
I get why you guys are excited about jumping into tech while it's "hot", but I'll pass on the career whack-a-mole. I worked with a pharmacist who originally went into IT in the early 2000's but there was a market saturation issue (allegedly) so he made the switch to pharmacy (when it was "hot"). If he had stayed in IT, he wouldn't be a floater pharmacist in a saturated pharmacy market. Why not apply your interests in data/tech to non-traditional pharmacy/healthcare careers?

If getting into tech is as easy as taking free online coding courses, or grabbing a masters/bs, how long do you think the gravy train will last? especially if these jobs can be outsourced to Indian companies for literal pennies on the dollar lol. With all this talk of sign-on bonuses, company stocks, $100K+ salaries, it all sounds oddly familiar :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
What non-traditional pharmacy/healthcare careers are you referring to?
You mean residencies? check out reddit and the residency/job market sub-forum and see what that can lead to~
Or you mean PA or maybe even MD? so you are encouraging people to take out even more debt and a decade of life (in the case of MD) for the same saturating professions?

Plz clarify and I am actually looking forward to seeing your suggestions!
 
DIPEA said:
What non-traditional pharmacy/healthcare careers are you referring to?
You mean residencies? check out reddit and the residency/job market sub-forum and see what that can lead to~
Or you mean PA or maybe even MD? so you are encouraging people to take out even more debt and a decade of life (in the case of MD) for the same saturating professions?

Plz clarify and I am actually looking forward to seeing your suggestions!
Click to expand...
link me to the subforum lol. I think PA is a good deal. Anyways I said in this lifetime there will be more than one industry. I think serious is saying be careful
 
Lubeckd said:
link me to the subforum lol. I think PA is a good deal. Anyways I said in this lifetime there will be more than one industry. I think serious is saying be careful
Click to expand...
search it up man~ PGY-1, PGY-2s making how much a year in today's market? or still just staffing position? PGY-3 is coming remember? :dead:
I don't think PA is a good deal. 2 more years + 2 more years of tuition and opportunity cost. PA is barely making 100k a year even in california. financially it's like going backwards not forward.
IT at least can be applied to every other fields including pharmacy, but what can a pharmd PA do? prescribe and dispense at the same time? LOL
 
DIPEA said:
search it up man~ PGY-1, PGY-2s making how much a year in today's market? or still just staffing position? PGY-3 is coming remember? :dead:
I don't think PA is a good deal. 2 more years + 2 more years of tuition and opportunity cost. PA is barely making 100k a year even in california. financially it's like going backwards not forward.
IT at least can be applied to every other fields including pharmacy, but what can a pharmd PA do? prescribe and dispense at the same time? LOL
Click to expand...
I think PA has a lot of stability. And easier to get a job. I cant say the same for tech
 
Do you just see the article I show you? there is no coding for informatic pharmacy. System biology is the closest thing
if you wanna do some clinical trails which just requiers biostats
also because it follows saturation like law. I would say if you like math and coding go for it.
 
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There are biomedical engineering masters with an emphasis on pharma.
 
Lubeckd said:
Do you just see the article I show you? there is no coding for informatic pharmacy. System biology is the closest thing
if you wanna do some clinical trails which just requiers biostats
Click to expand...
Some big pharma/biotechs in SF Bay (including my former employer), along with a bunch of startups are hiring a TON of data scientists, for pre-clinicals, clinicals, heor, and payers. And if pharma sucks, you can switch back and forth with IT corps like FAANG. And if data science/ai is no longer hot, do some leetcode and switch to SWE, like Joma in the video, or move to the payer side (insurance) or supply chain (mckesson) or go back to some research hospitals. There is so much flexibility for data guys.
 
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DIPEA said:
Some big pharma/biotechs in SF Bay (including my former employer), along with a bunch of startups are hiring a TON of data scientists, for pre-clinicals, clinicals, heor, and payers. And if pharma sucks, you can switch back and forth with IT corps like FAANG. And if data science/ai is no longer hot, do some leetcode and switch to SWE, like Joma in the video, or move to the payer side (insurance) or supply chain (mckesson) or go back to some research hospitals. There is so much flexibility for data guys.
Click to expand...
ah you know my end goal isnt tech anyways =p.
Anyways with my background I have insurance people telling me I can get into insurance easy. But to mess up pharmacist? I dont wanna do that lol
 
DIPEA said:
search it up man~ PGY-1, PGY-2s making how much a year in today's market? or still just staffing position? PGY-3 is coming remember? :dead:
I don't think PA is a good deal. 2 more years + 2 more years of tuition and opportunity cost. PA is barely making 100k a year even in california. financially it's like going backwards not forward.
IT at least can be applied to every other fields including pharmacy, but what can a pharmd PA do? prescribe and dispense at the same time? LOL
Click to expand...
PAs make less but it's a somewhat stable job? All the clinics/urgent cares around me are phasing out their MDs for RNs and PAs due to the lower cost and being able to the minimum that has to be do with the usual patients. Eventually, the PA market will saturate too because they can only open so many urgent cares everywhere before it turns to the next pharmacy. I'm already starting to see some urgent cares close down in NY because there are just too many ofem. As for hospitals, they are on the same boat as we are because the old doctors simply refuse to retire
 
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