Competitive MD, but leaning DO...thoughts?

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Yep, what he said.

I took the usmle. I did well on it. I applied to 50ish Acgme anesthesia programs and I got around 40 interviews. I matched my #2. I'm happy.

There's nothing wrong with going to a DO school, and I'm not saying do not go to a DO school. I would just encourage boarderline applicants, like yourself, to try to beef their application for 1 or 2 years and try to get into an MD school. It will make your life easier. If you still fail to get into a MD school then go to a DO with no regrets.

Being a DO is kind of bad if you want to do neurosurgery, ENT, urology, plastic surgery, opthamology, dermatology, or radiation oncology. Everything else is realistic.

You do not need to be a superstar DO to match somewhere decent. You simple need to take the usmle and do about average for your speciality. Some places will not take DOs, but many places will.

As always, awesome advice.

I have a question: In your opinion, when would you advise someone from a GPA and MCAT perspective to just say "screw it, take the DO acceptance and run" vs. "Well, u might wanna beef up ur resume a bit to give yourself the best chance". Someone with a 3.4-3.2 science GPA and a 26 MCAT?

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As always, awesome advice.

I have a question: In your opinion, when would you advise someone from a GPA and MCAT perspective to just say "screw it, take the DO acceptance and run" vs. "Well, u might wanna beef up ur resume a bit to give yourself the best chance". Someone with a 3.4-3.2 science GPA and a 26 MCAT?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but if it were me, if I did not realistically think I could significantly change my chances of getting in a reasonable amount of time, I'd just forget about. Like for you, if you don't think you could get a 29+, then I would say, forget it and go with your DO app.

For me for example, I'd have to be doing post-bac/SMP GPA repair for another 2-3 years (maybe more) to significantly improve my app for MD (and even then its a risk), and at that point, its just not worth it.

Also, to be clear, I would NOT drop a DO acceptance EVER to try my chances at MD later. If I were to apply to MD and DO schools, and got a DO acceptance, even if I thought maybe I could spend another year and slightly improve my MD chances, I would go DO. I wouldn't apply if I wasn't genuinely willing to go there, because its pretty hard to explain or even justify why you'd drop a med school acceptance just to apply again.
 
I know this wasn't directed at me, but if it were me, if I did not realistically think I could significantly change my chances of getting in a reasonable amount of time, I'd just forget about. Like for you, if you don't think you could get a 29+, then I would say, forget it and go with your DO app.

For me for example, I'd have to be doing post-bac/SMP GPA repair for another 2-3 years (maybe more) to significantly improve my app for MD (and even then its a risk), and at that point, its just not worth it.

Also, to be clear, I would NOT drop a DO acceptance EVER to try my chances at MD later. If I were to apply to MD and DO schools, and got a DO acceptance, even if I thought maybe I could spend another year and slightly improve my MD chances, I would go DO. I wouldn't apply if I wasn't genuinely willing to go there, because its pretty hard to explain or even justify why you'd drop a med school acceptance just to apply again.
Yes it is definitely hard to say and it really has to be case by case, depending on the individual situation.

Keep in mind that admissions gets more competitive every year, and unless your application is significantly improving, your application is getting effectively less and less competitive with the passing of time.

Plus, like you said, there is always the risk of not getting in. It's not like admission is ever a given especially with borderline stats.
 
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I know this wasn't directed at me, but if it were me, if I did not realistically think I could significantly change my chances of getting in a reasonable amount of time, I'd just forget about. Like for you, if you don't think you could get a 29+, then I would say, forget it and go with your DO app.

For me for example, I'd have to be doing post-bac/SMP GPA repair for another 2-3 years (maybe more) to significantly improve my app for MD (and even then its a risk), and at that point, its just not worth it.

Also, to be clear, I would NOT drop a DO acceptance EVER to try my chances at MD later. If I were to apply to MD and DO schools, and got a DO acceptance, even if I thought maybe I could spend another year and slightly improve my MD chances, I would go DO. I wouldn't apply if I wasn't genuinely willing to go there, because its pretty hard to explain or even justify why you'd drop a med school acceptance just to apply again.

Thats what I was thinking too. It is much less of a risk to re-take the classes that someone did poorly in rather than go for a new major and risk getting Cs in science classes with all new material.

I 100% agree on the last point. A DO acceptance letter is a winning lottery ticket to a good life. I wouldnt turn in my winning lottery ticket in hopes of getting an even higher one.
 
Yea, I agree with everyone.

Just be realistic with yourself. Can you improve your mcat by 6 points or so? Are you willing to do an SMP to improve your gpa?

If you had one deficit, either a low gpa OR a low mcat, I'd say take the time off, but since you have two problems I'm more incline to tell you to go DO. I don't think it would be worth the stress, but that's me.
 
Yea, I agree with everyone.

Just be realistic with yourself. Can you improve your mcat by 6 points or so? Are you willing to do an SMP to improve your gpa?

If you had one deficit, either a low gpa OR a low mcat, I'd say take the time off, but since you have two problems I'm more incline to tell you to go DO. I don't think it would be worth the stress, but that's me.

Considering my interests, I think the only reason I would wait a year is to try again to get into my state school for instate tuition... but maybe that is not worth it... I mean it is a slim shot...

Private school MD and DO seem to be about the same prices otherwise... Or am I missing something?
 
Considering my interests, I think the only reason I would wait a year is to try again to get into my state school for instate tuition... but maybe that is not worth it... I mean it is a slim shot...

Private school MD and DO seem to be about the same prices otherwise... Or am I missing something?

That's about right. There are some gems. The LECOMs are pretty cheap for private schools with ~$30k/year tuition.

IS tuition at a public school is a magical thing. I'm going to have to move strategically so my future children don't have to worry about OOS tuition and have some real IS options for their education.
 
Considering my interests, I think the only reason I would wait a year is to try again to get into my state school for instate tuition... but maybe that is not worth it... I mean it is a slim shot...

Private school MD and DO seem to be about the same prices otherwise... Or am I missing something?

Same here. I really wanna do Pediatrics, Ortho, Family med, or PMandR. Considering tution to crazy at some DO schools (CCOM 55K?). I would really like to get into my states's MD school
 
Yep, what he said.

I took the usmle. I did well on it. I applied to 50ish Acgme anesthesia programs and I got around 40 interviews. I matched my #2. I'm happy.

There's nothing wrong with going to a DO school, and I'm not saying do not go to a DO school. I would just encourage boarderline applicants, like yourself, to try to beef up their application for 1 or 2 years and try to get into an MD school. It will make your life easier. If you still fail to get into a MD school then go to a DO with no regrets.

Being a DO is kind of bad if you want to do neurosurgery, ENT, urology, plastic surgery, opthamology, dermatology, or radiation oncology. Everything else is realistic.

You do not need to be a superstar DO to match somewhere decent. You simply need to take the usmle and do about average for your speciality. Some places will not take DOs, but many places will.

I am reading some more about Osteopathic medicine. One article that I am reading says that if you go to a DO school you have to take the COMLEX. So if you want to take the USMLE you have to take both the COMLEX and USMLE? How do schools prepare you for these exams? If I go to a DO school and decide to take the USMLE will I completely have to study for these boards around my medical school classes? Will I be having exams in my medical courses and studying for my boards simultaneously? Will DO schools be more focused on preparing for the COMLEX than the USMLE?

Also it says that "While MD students typically rotate through large affiliated hospitals during their clinical years, osteopathic medical students are often exposed to a wider variety of clinical settings (i.e., hospitals of varying size, community-based clinics, etc.)" This sounds great to me. At the end of the day I think it would be nice to have a taste of all of these different settings. Why don't MD students do this too? Is this going to negatively affect me?

Thank you for all your help!
 
I am reading some more about Osteopathic medicine. One article that I am reading says that if you go to a DO school you have to take the COMLEX. So if you want to take the USMLE you have to take both the COMLEX and USMLE? How do schools prepare you for these exams? If I go to a DO school and decide to take the USMLE will I completely have to study for these boards around my medical school classes? Will I be having exams in my medical courses and studying for my boards simultaneously? Will DO schools be more focused on preparing for the COMLEX than the USMLE?

Also it says that "While MD students typically rotate through large affiliated hospitals during their clinical years, osteopathic medical students are often exposed to a wider variety of clinical settings (i.e., hospitals of varying size, community-based clinics, etc.)" This sounds great to me. At the end of the day I think it would be nice to have a taste of all of these different settings. Why don't MD students do this too? Is this going to negatively affect me?

Thank you for all your help!

As a DO, you MUST take the comlex and you have the option to also take the usmle.

The content of both exams is very similar, with the exception of OMM on the comlex, so if you're studying for the usmle you're basically studying for the comlex.

The question style, however, is very different between the two exams. As a result, you have to spend extra time becoming familiar with the format/style of both exams.

DO schools obviously focus their training for the comlex, but they teach everything that is tested on the usmle.

Every MD school is different. Some schools have their students rotate only at their main university hospital. Some schools send 1/2 of their students to their university hospital and the other half to smaller community hospitals. From my experience with MD students, they usually spend half their time at their university hospital and the other half at community programs.

DOs, on the other hand, send their students exclusively to community programs. Usually you're at a different hospital each month and you may have to travel all over the state or even to a different state each month. I thought it was kind of annoying because during the first few weeks of the rotation everything is new and you're kind of lost, and then as soon as you become comfortable with the hospital its time to move on to a different hospital.

I don't know how much it really matters, though. I intubated over 50 patients, put 5 A-lines, 3 chest tubes, and 2 central lines as a medical student, whereas some of my internmates from top 20 medical schools, didn't have an opportunity to do any of that as a medical student. But does it really matter how many procedures you do as a medical student? Probably not. I've had to put a central line or A-line in someone every day of my intern year so far, so if I never did it in medical school, I would have learned to do really quickly as an intern.

I can say that the teaching at the hospital I'm at right now is way better than the teaching I received as a medical student, but I read a lot when I was in medical school, so it wasn't a big deal for me.

Also, the patients are WAY more complex here than any of the hospitals I rotated at as a medical student, so I think that's probably the biggest disadvantage rotating at only community hospitals as a medical student. Nevertheless, I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job so far, so I think my medical school education was more than adequate.
 
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So if I get into a medical school that I am not happy with this year... do you suggest re-taking the MCAT and beefing up my application and retrying next year?

3.78 GPA Biochem Major (Psychology Minor)... about the same science GPA maybe a bit higher... 27 MCAT 9PS, 8VR, 10BS... non-trad graduated in 2007... 5-6 years of research.... 3 years of clinical research at the NIH...

done volunteering as a health educator in a couple organizations (I wouldnt say it is amazing but it is something)

In undergrad I had great EC's though...
 
So if I get into a medical school that I am not happy with this year... do you suggest re-taking the MCAT and beefing up my application and retrying next year?


Why would you have applied to schools that you would turn down if they accepted you? Seems like a waste of money, and a waste of time for you and the school.
 
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Why would you have applied to schools that you would turn down if they accepted you? Seems like a waste of money, and a waste of time for you and the school.

I want to go on the interview and do more research on the school. How much information can I obtain from a school from just visiting their website? I applied to 12 schools. Unfortunately, I did not visit all of them before hand or talk to all of their students. I read their websites and decided that I would go for some of them. You don't know unless you try... maybe I will get accepted somewhere unexpected this year and love it... that is my hope... you can't win unless you play the game...
 
Why would you have applied to schools that you would turn down if they accepted you? Seems like a waste of money, and a waste of time for you and the school.

This.

Again its a very risky thing to turn down a med school acceptance. It could make you look bad to the schools that know about it, and most importantly since there are no guarantees in this process, you never know that you will get in the second time around.
 
1. I certainly agree that if you think you might want to do something competitive--it's worth pursuing the MD route. Make your life easier.

2. In my experience, so many DO schools are private and expensive. The deposits were 1-2,000$. The tuition was 10-12,000 more per year.
 
1. I certainly agree that if you think you might want to do something competitive--it's worth pursuing the MD route. Make your life easier.

2. In my experience, so many DO schools are private and expensive. The deposits were 1-2,000$. The tuition was 10-12,000 more per year.

I want to do primary care (family medicine or peds). I also have interest in psychiatry or neurology... cost is a factor that I am thinking about... I wish I had higher MCAT scores to be competitive at my state school. I know that if I get better MCATs there are no guarantees that I would even get into my state school though. I really just want to go to the right school for me. There are certain environments that I perform better in. I don't want to go to a school that I don't think is the right fit for me or that may not work for me. Is it fair to make that judgement? It is really early on, I have no idea what will come my way. I just want to go to the best medical school for me. It is not all about competition, etc. It is about where do I see myself excelling and learning the best. I ultimately want to be a great physician and I want to make sure that I have the best tools available to help me do that.
 
A 27 MCAT makes you a rock star at a lot of DO schools. You might get a few looks from in-state MD schools.

You'll be a fine physician regardless of MD/DO. DO won't give you any trouble getting into Family or Peds. But keep in mind people change their minds in a lot of cases.
 
A 27 MCAT makes you a rock star at a lot of DO schools. You might get a few looks from in-state MD schools.

You'll be a fine physician regardless of MD/DO. DO won't give you any trouble getting into Family or Peds. But keep in mind people change their minds in a lot of cases.

What about pediatric neurology? I was told that neurology is not competitive and neither is pediatrics, but if I decided to do a combined residency are those more competitive?

Thanks for all your help!
 
I honestly don't know a lot about it.
 
What about pediatric neurology? I was told that neurology is not competitive and neither is pediatrics, but if I decided to do a combined residency are those more competitive?

Thanks for all your help!
Not much more than either alone (just a lot fewer programs).
 
A 27 MCAT makes you a rock star at a lot of DO schools. You might get a few looks from in-state MD schools.

You'll be a fine physician regardless of MD/DO. DO won't give you any trouble getting into Family or Peds. But keep in mind people change their minds in a lot of cases.

How can a 27 get MD looks for in state school?
 
Wow, you must have a very forgiving state school. I know I should have moved to a state with heavy IS bias 😀. I get no love here.

I had a mix of things going for me, and a pretty forgiving state school was one of them. The rest of my app was extremely strong though. However, just thought I would chime in.....mine isnt a likely scenario though.
 
I had a 25 MCAT and am finishing up an in-state MD school.
 
I want to go on the interview and do more research on the school. How much information can I obtain from a school from just visiting their website? I applied to 12 schools. Unfortunately, I did not visit all of them before hand or talk to all of their students. I read their websites and decided that I would go for some of them. You don't know unless you try... maybe I will get accepted somewhere unexpected this year and love it... that is my hope... you can't win unless you play the game...

Well, the proper thing to do would be to withdraw your application after your interview if it was a school you no longer wanted to go to. This is how you would avoid the declining an acceptance at a school I don't like scenario.
 
It happens more often than SDN leads you to think.

As much as neurotic people in here want to believe, it isn't all a numbers game when it comes to medical school admissions.
But I thought the world ends and I won't get into medical school and I have to have a 40 and a 3.97457 GPA and work 2 medically related jobs and hold sick children's hands in Africa!
 

Rural programs.

I was involved with a specific one since my senior year of high school.

But, I think a lot of the rural programs take lower stats if you show a genuine interest in serving in underserved/rural areas.

I do, however agree that SDN makes things seem way more intimidating/impossible.
 
Rural programs.

I was involved with a specific one since my senior year of high school.

But, I think a lot of the rural programs take lower stats if you show a genuine interest in serving in underserved/rural areas.

I do, however agree that SDN makes things seem way more intimidating/impossible.

How can one get involved in Rural programs? My state has one, and while I dont have a record of serving in rural areas, I have a genuine interest in working with the underserved population (inner city). I've been volunteering with inner city patients for 4, almost five years now.
 
So if I get into a medical school that I am not happy with this year... do you suggest re-taking the MCAT and beefing up my application and retrying next year?

3.78 GPA Biochem Major (Psychology Minor)... about the same science GPA maybe a bit higher... 27 MCAT 9PS, 8VR, 10BS... non-trad graduated in 2007... 5-6 years of research.... 3 years of clinical research at the NIH...

done volunteering as a health educator in a couple organizations (I wouldnt say it is amazing but it is something)

In undergrad I had great EC's though...

Honestly with a GPA like that it tells me you didn't try hard enough for the MCAT, or at least weren't studying the right way.
 
Honestly with a GPA like that it tells me you didn't try hard enough for the MCAT, or at least weren't studying the right way.

I disagree, the MCAT isn't the sort of test that GPA correlates well with.

I have personally seen it (and it isn't n=1, but many people within my ugrad program) destroy many pre-med's dreams but also help out a lot of people with low GPAs.

It is what it is.
 
But I thought the world ends and I won't get into medical school and I have to have a 40 and a 3.97457 GPA and work 2 medically related jobs and hold sick children's hands in Africa!

👍
 
Honestly with a GPA like that it tells me you didn't try hard enough for the MCAT, or at least weren't studying the right way.

The high on my AAMC practice test was 11 PS, 9 VR (once), 11 BS... I was hoping to get up to 12 PS, 10 VR, 12 BS... if I had a couple more months of studying and practicing I think that I could have done it... there are no guarantees though... even if I waited another year I could still only get a 27... I took my MCAT in late April after studying since August 2012 (I graduated in 2007 and had to relearn all the science material) and got my scores back in late May... I intended to retake it in late July but I felt that I needed to focus on work (I work at NIH and took time off to study for the MCAT) and I also thought that I needed to work on putting together a solid application...

honestly, I am not too upset with my score... it could be worse... I really wish it was at least a 31... I would have loved to get to my goal of a 34... (my instate has a high mean MCAT score) but even a high MCAT score is not a guarantee that I will get into medical school... it is the whole package deal... I really hope that I can provide that to the medical schools
 
The high on my AAMC practice test was 11 PS, 9 VR (once), 11 BS... I was hoping to get up to 12 PS, 10 VR, 12 BS... if I had a couple more months of studying and practicing I think that I could have done it... there are no guarantees though... even if I waited another year I could still only get a 27... I took my MCAT in late April after studying since August 2012 (I graduated in 2007 and had to relearn all the science material) and got my scores back in late May... I intended to retake it in late July but I felt that I needed to focus on work (I work at NIH and took time off to study for the MCAT) and I also thought that I needed to work on putting together a solid application...

honestly, I am not too upset with my score... it could be worse... I really wish it was at least a 31... I would have loved to get to my goal of a 34... (my instate has a high mean MCAT score) but even a high MCAT score is not a guarantee that I will get into medical school... it is the whole package deal... I really hope that I can provide that to the medical schools

I think you're a smart person for realizing that there are no guarantees. I REALLY wanted a 30 - 31 but only got a 29. In your case a 27 isn't a terrible score at all and you should see what happens when it comes to both MD and DO schools. Your GPA/MCAT will definitely have you in the running as a good applicant assuming your ECs are balanced.
 
I think you're a smart person for realizing that there are no guarantees. I REALLY wanted a 30 - 31 but only got a 29. In your case a 27 isn't a terrible score at all and you should see what happens when it comes to both MD and DO schools. Your GPA/MCAT will definitely have you in the running as a good applicant assuming your ECs are balanced.

so balanced ECs... I have 4-5 years of research experience as I work at the NIH... I have 3 years of clinical research experience... but NOT on a patient population... I have tons of posters/conferences and one publication in the works

I have shadowed a several physicians... psychiatrists, pediatrician, physiatrist, OB/GYN... etc.

great leadership in undergrad...

I have previously volunteered as a health care educator for a few underserved populations (refugees/asylees, socio-economically disadvantaged Hispanics, homeless women)... I am Puerto Rican which has led me to become sensitive to socio-economically disadvantaged and underserved communities/individuals.... I seek to provide quality health care to these populations as a future physician...

I am considering going back to volunteering and working with the refugees and asylees at this time...

I feel like I am lacking in my clinical hours as a CNA, EMT or scribe... most of these positions require a 2 year commitment though and I do have a full-time job...

I am a 27 y/o female (currently single... so I provide my own finances and health care benefits) so I would like to get into medical school as soon as possible but having a strong application and going to the best medical school for me is important too...

I want to be smart about what I do in the meantime as I am applying to medical schools any suggestions?
 
so balanced ECs... I have 4-5 years of research experience as I work at the NIH... I have 3 years of clinical research experience... but NOT on a patient population... I have tons of posters/conferences and one publication in the works

I have shadowed a several physicians... psychiatrists, pediatrician, physiatrist, OB/GYN... etc.

great leadership in undergrad...

I have previously volunteered as a health care educator for a few underserved populations (refugees/asylees, socio-economically disadvantaged Hispanics, homeless women)... I am Puerto Rican which has led me to become sensitive to socio-economically disadvantaged and underserved communities/individuals.... I seek to provide quality health care to these populations as a future physician...

I am considering going back to volunteering and working with the refugees and asylees at this time...

I feel like I am lacking in my clinical hours as a CNA, EMT or scribe... most of these positions require a 2 year commitment though and I do have a full-time job...

I am a 27 y/o female (currently single... so I provide my own finances and health care benefits) so I would like to get into medical school as soon as possible but having a strong application and going to the best medical school for me is important too...

I want to be smart about what I do in the meantime as I am applying to medical schools any suggestions?

Get off SDN and enjoy life. About a month or so before medical school begins, read up on your nervous system.
 
I think you're a smart person for realizing that there are no guarantees. I REALLY wanted a 30 - 31 but only got a 29. In your case a 27 isn't a terrible score at all and you should see what happens when it comes to both MD and DO schools. Your GPA/MCAT will definitely have you in the running as a good applicant assuming your ECs are balanced.

Both 27 and 29 are above the national average, and both can get you into medical school. I don't wanna be bashing OP or any other people who have struggled with the MCAT, I was just trying to make the point that its a test that can be "beaten," given the right approach. I was able to improve 5 pts by changing the way I studied. I bet you could both get 30+ if you had enough time to study for it.
 
This is my situation as well. I'm much more drawn to DO ... There isn't a differentiation once you pick your specialty between the two. And you're confident in your ability to do well in school and score well on your boards. For me,
ts not about the title, and do school curriculum and philosophy seem more interesting to me. I think the wise choice is to do what your heart is in.. would you give a limb to be a do or/and md? If you say both, do the interviews, see the campus for both, then decide. That's how I'm approaching it.


So I'm a competitive MD applicant (at least to my in-state schools), but for some reason DO schools are calling my name and I just feel more comfortable and excited about applying DO. When thinking about MD, it just seems less appealing.

Reasons:

-I know this shouldn't be my biggest concern, but moving out of state would be easier with DO.
- Some DO curriculum, esp. systems-based learning, sounds like fun. Difficult, but interesting.
-DO's will soon be recognized on the same plane if they aren't almost there already
- I like the patient-centered approach these schools preach
-I'd be OKAY with OMM even though I don't believe in all of it.
-Could still do MD-route residency

TL;DR Honestly, I'm just wondering if I should skip the MD route altogether and go all-in for DO.

Thoughts?
 
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