Competitive MD, but leaning DO...thoughts?

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dock10 said:
so i'm a competitive md applicant (at least to my in-state schools), but for some reason do schools are calling my name and i just feel more comfortable and excited about applying do. When thinking about md, it just seems less appealing.

Reasons:

-i know this shouldn't be my biggest concern, but moving out of state would be easier with do.
- some do curriculum, esp. Systems-based learning, sounds like fun. Difficult, but interesting.
-do's will soon be recognized on the same plane if they aren't almost there already
- i like the patient-centered approach these schools preach
-i'd be okay with omm even though i don't believe in all of it.
-could still do md-route residency

tl;dr honestly, i'm just wondering if i should skip the md route altogether and go all-in for do.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

-1/10
 
Go to the school where you think you'll be happiest and ignore silly things like the title MD or DO.
 
There's no reason to pick a DO school over an MD school unless you love OMM, the DO school is near your family/friends, or the DO school is cheaper.

I see from your other post you're thinking about joining the military. If that is the case, it really doesn't matter that much if you're a DO or MD. The military's match system is point based and you earn what you get. It's probably the fairest match.
 
Only reason you should consider DO over MD is if you're borderline competitive for MD and don't want to spend a ton of money interviewing at MD schools where you're barely competitive.
 
circulus vitios said:
Only reason you should consider DO over MD is if you're borderline competitive for MD and don't want to spend a ton of money interviewing at MD schools where you're barely competitive.
Click to expand...

i can tell that you put a lot of thought into this.
 
dock10 said:
So I'm a competitive MD applicant (at least to my in-state schools), but for some reason DO schools are calling my name and I just feel more comfortable and excited about applying DO. When thinking about MD, it just seems less appealing.

Reasons:

-I know this shouldn't be my biggest concern, but moving out of state would be easier with DO. Only good point
- Some DO curriculum, esp. systems-based learning, sounds like fun. Difficult, but interesting. Curriculum is school based, not DO/MD based.
-DO's will soon be recognized on the same plane if they aren't almost there alreadyQuestion though, why not just go for the position that's driving the plane?
- I like the patient-centered approach these schools preach As DO students, people who actually know far more about this then us PreMeds, its all baloney
-I'd be OKAY with OMM even though I don't believe in all of it.Then why even go through with it? As an MD you can still learn OMM if you so desire
-Could still do MD-route residencyBut why put yourself at a disadvantage during the match?

TL;DR Honestly, I'm just wondering if I should skip the MD route altogether and go all-in for DO.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

As cliqueish said, unless you have loved ones you can't stand to be away from, or you just LOVE the specific school, there's no real reason to go DO over MD.

In case you're wondering, he is a DO graduate who successfully matched, so if a DO student is telling you to go MD if possible, then definitely consider it. And this is coming from a likely future DO student.
 
darklabel said:
As cliqueish said, unless you have loved ones you can't stand to be away from, or you just LOVE the specific school, there's no real reason to go DO over MD.

In case you're wondering, he is a DO graduate who successfully matched, so if a DO student is telling you to go MD if possible, then definitely consider it. And this is coming from a likely future DO student.
Click to expand...

2/2 DO graduates say go MD unless there are extenuating circumstances. (I'm not even bitter, I wanted to do FM so this worked for me. However, I saw the hassle some of my classmates had for competitive specialties.)
 
darklabel said:
As cliqueish said, unless you have loved ones you can't stand to be away from, or you just LOVE the specific school, there's no real reason to go DO over MD.

In case you're wondering, he is a DO graduate who successfully matched, so if a DO student is telling you to go MD if possible, then definitely consider it. And this is coming from a likely future DO student.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.
 
Bacchus said:
2/2 DO graduates say go MD unless there are extenuating circumstances. (I'm not even bitter, I wanted to do FM so this worked for me. However, I saw the hassle some of my classmates had for competitive specialties.)
Click to expand...

3/3. Im looking at res 42 now and considering saying screw it as I am not going to work in those 4 states anyhow.
 
sylvanthus said:
3/3. Im looking at res 42 now and considering saying screw it as I am not going to work in those 4 states anyhow.
Click to expand...

What if you only get accepted to a DO program? Would it be wiser to take a year to improve an application? Lets say someone has like a 3.4 and 27 MCAT, perfectly acceptable numbers for DO school, but too low for MD school?
 
GypsyHummus said:
What if you only get accepted to a DO program? Would it be wiser to take a year to improve an application? Lets say someone has like a 3.4 and 27 MCAT, perfectly acceptable numbers for DO school, but too low for MD school?
Click to expand...

I was in that boat two cycles ago and I would have sat out my DO admission for one more year for a chance at MD schools. At the most, I'd delay one year DO over MD, if you can't make it in on the second try, go to a DO school instead.
 
GypsyHummus said:
What if you only get accepted to a DO program? Would it be wiser to take a year to improve an application? Lets say someone has like a 3.4 and 27 MCAT, perfectly acceptable numbers for DO school, but too low for MD school?
Click to expand...

I'd probably say run with the DO acceptance unless you think you can get a 33 on the mcat.

There's nothing wrong with being a DO. Your education will be fine. You'll be a doctor. You'll make at least $170k a year. The only bad part is applying for residency/fellowship. You just need to be realistic about your future goals before you start. You're going to have a tough time with acgme urology, ent, ortho, neurosurgery, derm, and rad onc. When I say "tought time," I mean, it probably isn't going to happen. Everything else is open, though. I'd recommend checking out PM&R or anesthesia early on and see if you like those fields. You can do very well as a DO in those fields.

TAKE THE USMLE.

notbobtrustme said:
I was in that boat two cycles ago and I would have sat out my DO admission for one more year for a chance at MD schools. At the most, I'd delay one year DO over MD, if you can't make it in on the second try, go to a DO school instead.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this.
 
cliquesh said:
I'd probably say run with the DO acceptance unless you think you can get a 33 on the mcat.

There's nothing wrong with being a DO. Your education will be fine. You'll be a doctor. You'll make at least $170k a year. The only bad part is applying for residency/fellowship. You just need to be realistic about your future goals before you start. You're going to have a tough time with acgme urology, ent, ortho, neurosurgery, derm, and rad onc. When I say "tought time," I mean, it probably isn't going to happen. Everything else is open, though. I'd recommend checking out PM&R or anesthesia early on and see if you like those fields. You can do very well as a DO in those fields.



I'd agree with this.
Click to expand...

I take it you are a DO student? Do you regret that decision/think you could have done better on the MCAT/GPA?

I ask because I have a low science GPA (3.1), but not many credits in science, and in two years I could make it fine for my state's MD school (3.4). My cGPA is fine. The problem with that is if I end up getting Bs or even Cs in ecology coursework, it could really end up screwing me over for any medical school, MD or DO, whereas I am done with all pre recs and a 3.1 would be passable for the new schools.

I'm always worried about something like a 27-28, because it can swing either way, and both of these are not competitive for MD admissions, but fine for most DO programs. retaking a 23-25 is less risky because there is less to loose and much more to gain.

Thanks btw for everyone's help and sorry to hijack the thread, I appreciate it. I hope that the responses help others in my similar situation.
 
GypsyHummus said:
I take it you are a DO student? Do you regret that decision/think you could have done better on the MCAT/GPA?

I ask because I have a low science GPA (3.1), but not many credits in science, and in two years I could make it fine for my state's MD school (3.4). My cGPA is fine. The problem with that is if I end up getting Bs or even Cs in ecology coursework, it could really end up screwing me over for any medical school, MD or DO, whereas I am done with all pre recs and a 3.1 would be passable for the new schools.

I'm always worried about something like a 27-28, because it can swing either way, and both of these are not competitive for MD admissions, but fine for most DO programs. retaking a 23-25 is less risky because there is less to loose and much more to gain.

Thanks btw for everyone's help and sorry to hijack the thread, I appreciate it. I hope that the responses help others in my similar situation.
Click to expand...

I'm a DO school graduate.

I had a 3.9 GPA and a 30 MCAT and I applied to only DO schools because my mentors all happened to be DOs. I didn't know any MDs. Additionally, I thought I wanted to do family medicine, so I didn't really care where I went that much.

I regret it now. If I were to do it again, I would have taken a year off, retaken the MCAT, and applied to MD schools. My regret is strange, though. I don't think where I matched for residency would have been much different if I attended a USMD school. I nevertheless feel some regret..not a lot of regret, but some.
 
sylvanthus said:
3/3. Im looking at res 42 now and considering saying screw it as I am not going to work in those 4 states anyhow.
Click to expand...

Oh man, I just googled Res 42 and my state is one of the unlucky 4. Even read an article that says more DOs need to be encouraged into AOA residencies...

Thanks for keeping us Pre-DO's in the know. That wouldve been a very rude wake up call.
 
darklabel said:
Oh man, I just googled Res 42 and my state is one of the unlucky 4. Even read an article that says more DOs need to be encouraged into AOA residencies...

Thanks for keeping us Pre-DO's in the know. That wouldve been a very rude wake up call.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I discovered it last year after asking a DO forensic path fellow what was the biggest factor for most of the graduates of the DO program in my state to make the choice to do an AOA residency vs an ACGME one, and he told me about Res 42. To which I then said, well that's just great, I live in one of those states and another is one that I genuinely considered working in. He did say there are ways around it, and he had to do that since he matched ACGME pathology, but that many people just decided it wasn't worth the effort.
 
there are 4-5 DO schools that i would (and did) choose to attend over many low/mid tier MD schools.

despite what the SDN circle jerk says, there are MD schools that place >60% of their students into the dreaded field of primary care and there are MD schools with garbage rotations at small community hospitals.

with that said, i think that a lot of DO schools have questionable rotation sites and sub-par OPTIs. saying that, however, there are DO schools who have established many residencies and many solid rotation sites.

i chose an absolutely phenomenal DO school over a low-tier MD school and am shooting for a surgical specialty. had i chosen the MD school, i think my odds would have slightly, slightly, slightly increased for matching at JHU or MGH...but not my desired specialty.

however, given my school's reputation, number of OPTIs, incredible residency and rotation network, and surgical faculty who have been mentoring me since my first semester of school, my school has improved my chances of matching a surgical field drastically more than the low-tier MD school ever could have.

i chose a DO school, am shooting for a competitive surgical specialty, and am very, very, very confident i will match said specialty.
 
darklabel said:
Oh man, I just googled Res 42 and my state is one of the unlucky 4. Even read an article that says more DOs need to be encouraged into AOA residencies...

Thanks for keeping us Pre-DO's in the know. That wouldve been a very rude wake up call.
Click to expand...

I'm also in one of the Unlucky Four. I really hope Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Oklahoma take a page out of West Virginia's book and change their minds about their requirements.
 
From my understanding, it is not terribly difficult to fulfill the resolution. I also was told on my interview trail the completion of a dually accredited residency will count. Meaning, if you go into the ACGME side of things it counts. However, that's a whole other story.
 
Bacchus said:
From my understanding, it is not terribly difficult to fulfill the resolution. I also was told on my interview trail the completion of a dually accredited residency will count. Meaning, if you go into the ACGME side of things it counts. However, that's a whole other story.
Click to expand...

Good to hear it's not difficult. But going to a dually accredited residency program is unlikely for me with my current interests.
 
cliquesh said:
I'm a DO school graduate.

I had a 3.9 GPA and a 30 MCAT and I applied to only DO schools because my mentors all happened to be DOs. I didn't know any MDs. Additionally, I thought I wanted to do family medicine, so I didn't really care where I went that much.

I regret it now. If I were to do it again, I would have taken a year off, retaken the MCAT, and applied to MD schools. My regret is strange, though. I don't think where I matched for residency would have been much different if I attended a USMD school. I nevertheless feel some regret..not a lot of regret, but some.
Click to expand...

If you matched a top residency in the specialty of your choosing, why do you still regret it?
 
O Grady said:
What is this Res 42? I googled it but couldn't make any sense of the stuff I was reading.
Click to expand...


In order to practice in OK, FL, PA or MI as a DO you need to complete an AOA residency or an AOA osteopathic internship. If you end up doing an acgme residency you can get around that law by applying for Resolution 42. It's basically just some paper work. You also may have to modify your intern year. I would, for instance, have to give up a month of ICU and replace it with out-patient family medicine or internal medicine. I'd also have to take some OMM classes.

It's a self imposed law. Meaning it was a law created by DOs for DOs.


NontradCA said:
If you matched a top residency in the specialty of your choosing, why do you still regret it?
Click to expand...

Personal self worth reasons, I guess. I barely studied for the mcat. I wonder if I put in as much effort as I did for boards what my score would have been. My regret has nothing to do with being a DO or anything like that. My regret is more related to achieving my potential... or something. I'm being a little bitch.

I liked my school and I thought my education was good. I probably don't say that enough.
 
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Follow your heart. At my school, at least, you wouldn't be the first MD-caliber candidate who skipped the MD route to go DO.

dock10 said:
So I'm a competitive MD applicant (at least to my in-state schools), but for some reason DO schools are calling my name and I just feel more comfortable and excited about applying DO. When thinking about MD, it just seems less appealing.

Reasons:

-I know this shouldn't be my biggest concern, but moving out of state would be easier with DO.
- Some DO curriculum, esp. systems-based learning, sounds like fun. Difficult, but interesting.
-DO's will soon be recognized on the same plane if they aren't almost there already
- I like the patient-centered approach these schools preach
-I'd be OKAY with OMM even though I don't believe in all of it.
-Could still do MD-route residency

TL;DR Honestly, I'm just wondering if I should skip the MD route altogether and go all-in for DO.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
cliquesh said:
Personal self worth reasons, I guess. I barely studied for the mcat. I wonder if I put in as much effort as I did for boards what my score would have been. My regret has nothing to do with being a DO or anything like that. My regret is more related to achieving my potential or something.
Click to expand...

you sound like you could use some :biglove: 🙂
 
cliquesh said:
Personal self worth reasons, I guess. I barely studied for the mcat. I wonder if I put in as much effort as I did for boards what my score would have been. My regret has nothing to do with being a DO or anything like that. My regret is more related to achieving my potential... or something. I'm being a little bitch.

I liked my school and I thought my education was good. I probably don't say that enough.
Click to expand...

If it makes you feel any better, a 3.9/30 would've put you in great shape for MD so you just picked DO as a choice (which is better than most DOs that begrudgedly accepted DO as a back).

Also, you were one of the few Medical Students (now resident) to really help us Pre-Med's without the usual "F*cking premed, we're better than you and know all" attitude. Definitely a huge asset to Pre-Osteo 👍
 
darklabel said:
Also, you were one of the few Medical Students (now resident) to really help us Pre-Med's without the usual "F*cking premed, we're better than you and know all" attitude. Definitely a huge asset to Pre-Osteo 👍
Click to expand...

Agreed. You have helped me a ton in the perspective from a medical student. Hopefully we can all become kick ass DO students like cliquesh 👍
 
pattr said:
you sound like you could use some :biglove: 🙂
Click to expand...

you're probably right, hah

darklabel said:
If it makes you feel any better, a 3.9/30 would've put you in great shape for MD so you just picked DO as a choice (which is better than most DOs that begrudgedly accepted DO as a back).

Also, you were one of the few Medical Students (now resident) to really help us Pre-Med's without the usual "F*cking premed, we're better than you and know all" attitude. Definitely a huge asset to Pre-Osteo 👍
Click to expand...

GypsyHummus said:
Agreed. You have helped me a ton in the perspective from a medical student. Hopefully we can all become kick ass DO students like cliquesh 👍
Click to expand...

Hope you guys/gals do the same when you're a med student/resident.
 
I'm not saying anything new here. Go to a school where you feel you fit. Do you have lofty goals of Derm, Opthalm, Rad Onc, etc? Academia? Then you might make things easier for yourself by going for MD.

But if not, then you should note other factors ... cost, location, etc. Personally, I really like family medicine, emergency medicine, etc. The boring stuff. I don't care what letters I have after my name in a decade. But, if I knew what I wanted was derm or neurosurgery (lol), I'd probably hold out a bit more for an MD school. Perhaps do an SMP or something.
 
once the residency merger comes into effect, they should start giving out your degree on which (MD or DO) residency you end up going to. or just add something after your MD or DO title depending on which residency you went to, this way your degree is probably more of a reflection of the type of doctor you really are since residency is where you really become a doctor (so ive heard from talking to doctors lol).

i mean many DOs go to acgme residencies, if anything they have become more "MDish" after finishing 3-7 years of training under MD attendings, right?
 
chipper10 said:
once the residency merger comes into effect, they should start giving out your degree on which (MD or DO) residency you end up going to. or just add something after your MD or DO title depending on which residency you went to, this way your degree is probably more of a reflection of the type of doctor you really are since residency is where you really become a doctor (so ive heard from talking to doctors lol).

i mean many DOs go to acgme residencies, if anything they have become more "MDish" after finishing 3-7 years of training under MD attendings, right?
Click to expand...

A few things:

1) IF the merger goes into effect (everything still sounds hazy/shaky to me)
2) The degree you get has nothing to do with the training you have but rather the school you go to. Being an MD or DO isn't about your training, just your school, which is why you have those letters after your name the day you graduate not the day you finish residency.
3) You do get a title/certification after residency and boards... board certification, which is yet another set of letters you can put after your name.
4) You could be training under DO attendings at some of those ACGME residencies.

But I digress. I get your point and understand the sentiment.
 
canadianinusa said:
I would say MD if there is even the slightest interest in living abroad. (Or practicing abroad, like doctors without borders.)
Click to expand...

This doesn't seem to be much of an issue anymore. DOs can practice fully almost anywhere with France being a notable exception. More countries are allowing DOs even as recently as this year (Australia).
 
eat-drink-smiley-5168.gif
I am running low on popcorn guys. HALP!

I think OD is very good. They even get into very competitive residencies👍
If you consider OD, Des Moines is the way to go👍
 
cliquesh said:
I'm a DO school graduate.

I had a 3.9 GPA and a 30 MCAT and I applied to only DO schools because my mentors all happened to be DOs. I didn't know any MDs. Additionally, I thought I wanted to do family medicine, so I didn't really care where I went that much.

I regret it now. If I were to do it again, I would have taken a year off, retaken the MCAT, and applied to MD schools. My regret is strange, though. I don't think where I matched for residency would have been much different if I attended a USMD school. I nevertheless feel some regret..not a lot of regret, but some.
Click to expand...

Are you doing family medicine now? Or what field? Did you take the USMLEs? Do DOs go into neurology or psychiatry? Your comments are making me rethink DO school. I think I want to do primary care now. I think I would be very happy in family medicine or pediatrics. However, maybe I should keep my options open. I could see myself interested in psychiatry or neurology. I don't know. :-/
 
circulus vitios said:
...unless your heart is set in something like ophthalmology or radiation oncology.
Click to expand...

I work at the NIH and my friend who is an MD and currently in a radiation oncology residency at the NIH says the smartest person in his program is a DO. I know this is anecdotal but I think it says a lot.
 
tinylilron said:
Are you doing family medicine now? Or what field? Did you take the USMLEs? Do DOs go into neurology or psychiatry? Your comments are making me rethink DO school. I think I want to do primary care now. I think I would be very happy in family medicine or pediatrics. However, maybe I should keep my options open. I could see myself interested in psychiatry or neurology. I don't know. :-/
Click to expand...
I won't speak for cliquesh but he's a first year anesthesiology resident and has expressed before that he is happy with where he is at.

Neurology and psychiatry are not competitive fields. They are DO-friendly. In fact DOs get into very good programs for these fields. I would say if you are interested in primary care then DO is a good route to take. I am also interested in primary care. I'm a fourth year DO student and I can say that I'm satisfied with how things have gone so far. Let's hope that satisfaction carries over to after the match 😉
 
pattr said:
I won't speak for cliquesh but he's a first year anesthesiology resident and has expressed before that he is happy with where he is at.

Neurology and psychiatry are not competitive fields. They are DO-friendly. In fact DOs get into very good programs for these fields. I would say if you are interested in primary care then DO is a good route to take. I am also interested in primary care. I'm a fourth year DO student and I can say that I'm satisfied with how things have gone so far. Let's hope that satisfaction carries over to after the match 😉
Click to expand...

Yes... please keep us updated. What field are you hoping to go into?
 
pattr said:
I won't speak for cliquesh but he's a first year anesthesiology resident and has expressed before that he is happy with where he is at.

Neurology and psychiatry are not competitive fields. They are DO-friendly. In fact DOs get into very good programs for these fields. I would say if you are interested in primary care then DO is a good route to take. I am also interested in primary care. I'm a fourth year DO student and I can say that I'm satisfied with how things have gone so far. Let's hope that satisfaction carries over to after the match 😉
Click to expand...

Yep, what he said.

I took the usmle. I did well on it. I applied to 50ish Acgme anesthesia programs and I got around 40 interviews. I matched my #2. I'm happy.

There's nothing wrong with going to a DO school, and I'm not saying do not go to a DO school. I would just encourage boarderline applicants, like yourself, to try to beef up their application for 1 or 2 years and try to get into an MD school. It will make your life easier. If you still fail to get into a MD school then go to a DO with no regrets.

Being a DO is kind of bad if you want to do neurosurgery, ENT, urology, plastic surgery, opthamology, dermatology, or radiation oncology. Everything else is realistic.

You do not need to be a superstar DO to match somewhere decent. You simply need to take the usmle and do about average for your speciality. Some places will not take DOs, but many places will.
 
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