Competitiveness for Vascular Surgery or Gen. Surg

[Scottpilot]

Hey all,

For those residents/attendings in vascular or general surgery, just wanted to get a sense of my competitiveness for either program:
Step 1: 235
Only honored surgery, everything else pass.
2nd author on study published in an ophthalmology journal (this is my only research experience).
Several volunteer experiences

Thank you!

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[mimelim]

You do know there are ~250 general surgery residencies and ~50 integrated vascular surgery residencies right? There is tremendous variability between programs in both specialties. In addition, which programs you apply to and what your aspirations are within each field are going change how successful you are in terms of interviewing and matching.

Start here: Charting Outcomes in the Match is Here! | for the basic numbers. I will not say much about general surgery because frankly, with a 235 and reasonable letters, you can get into a program without much trouble. Having your choice of program is a bigger deal, but I can not guide you much there.

IVS on the other hand... A 235 will not close off any programs to you as nobody hard screens above that. The average in the last charting the outcomes was 237. While most people applying to IVS end up in IVS (nobody above 230 went unmatched), it is worth noting that like many competitive fields, there is a ton of self selection and the applicants that we get at our programs tend to be extremely strong. Will you get interviews with your profile, yes. But, there are several things that you are missing (or having mentioned) that are important for any competitive field. The biggest is demonstrated interest in the field. Committing to a sub-specialty as an MS4 requires you to know what you are getting into and attrition from a program that only takes 1-2 residents per year can be very hard on the program. Thus, it is generally not enough to simply say, "I like vascular, so I'm applying into it." People want to see you doing research in the field, going to conferences, doing aways, and having letters... Speaking of which, I just put together the statistics on this year's applicants. On average they had 3.3 LOR from vascular surgeons. That is something to keep in mind. Vascular surgery is a very small world. When you go to academic conferences, everyone knows everyone. For our top students on our rank list, we call the letter writers and ask about people. You need to have at least a couple of strong letters, mainly because that is what you are up against as a pool.

I am currently advising 4 current MS3 students on SDN. 3 of them are going to SVS this year. All three got the SVS travel scholarship. All are doing 2-4 vascular surgery aways (2 at my institution ). 30% of our trainees (residents and fellows) were associated with us in the past, ie. they did research with us, an away etc. This is not uncommon at many programs and having a home program generally is a big plus for this reason.

 

[cyanide12345678]

You'll probably be able to pull off general surgery. It's pretty damn difficult to get into the integrated vascular surgery residency. I've seen top notch candidates not get the integrated ones.

 

[Scottpilot]

You do know there are ~250 general surgery residencies and ~50 integrated vascular surgery residencies right? There is tremendous variability between programs in both specialties. In addition, which programs you apply to and what your aspirations are within each field are going change how successful you are in terms of interviewing and matching.

Start here: Charting Outcomes in the Match is Here! | for the basic numbers. I will not say much about general surgery because frankly, with a 235 and reasonable letters, you can get into a program without much trouble. Having your choice of program is a bigger deal, but I can not guide you much there.

IVS on the other hand... A 235 will not close off any programs to you as nobody hard screens above that. The average in the last charting the outcomes was 237. While most people applying to IVS end up in IVS (nobody above 230 went unmatched), it is worth noting that like many competitive fields, there is a ton of self selection and the applicants that we get at our programs tend to be extremely strong. Will you get interviews with your profile, yes. But, there are several things that you are missing (or having mentioned) that are important for any competitive field. The biggest is demonstrated interest in the field. Committing to a sub-specialty as an MS4 requires you to know what you are getting into and attrition from a program that only takes 1-2 residents per year can be very hard on the program. Thus, it is generally not enough to simply say, "I like vascular, so I'm applying into it." People want to see you doing research in the field, going to conferences, doing aways, and having letters... Speaking of which, I just put together the statistics on this year's applicants. On average they had 3.3 LOR from vascular surgeons. That is something to keep in mind. Vascular surgery is a very small world. When you go to academic conferences, everyone knows everyone. For our top students on our rank list, we call the letter writers and ask about people. You need to have at least a couple of strong letters, mainly because that is what you are up against as a pool.

I am currently advising 4 current MS3 students on SDN. 3 of them are going to SVS this year. All three got the SVS travel scholarship. All are doing 2-4 vascular surgery aways (2 at my institution ). 30% of our trainees (residents and fellows) were associated with us in the past, ie. they did research with us, an away etc. This is not uncommon at many programs and having a home program generally is a big plus for this reason.

Hi Mimelim,

Thank you for the reply! Great advice.
I know I'm a little late to the game. I just finished my surgery clerkship which included a month of vascular and found that I really enjoyed it...a lot. Prior to 3rd year I was not expecting to like surgery at all, let alone vascular, but it has by far been the rotation I've enjoyed the most. I plan on taking a sub-I at my home program. For various reasons, I am unable to do an away. If I can't do IVS, I was thinking of doing the traditional route.

 

[mimelim]

Hi Mimelim,

Thank you for the reply! Great advice.
I know I'm a little late to the game. I just finished my surgery clerkship which included a month of vascular and found that I really enjoyed it...a lot. Prior to 3rd year I was not expecting to like surgery at all, let alone vascular, but it has by far been the rotation I've enjoyed the most. I plan on taking a sub-I at my home program. For various reasons, I am unable to do an away. If I can't do IVS, I was thinking of doing the traditional route.

I wouldn't say 'late' per say, because many people figure out vascular in their 3rd year. (Although most were leaning surgical to begin with.) My biggest concern would be the aways/letters. I know you said, "unable" but if vascular is what you really want, getting even one will be a big boon to your application from not only an interest perspective, but also a letter opportunity perspective. If at all possible, I would highly recommend trying to get one setup. It is one thing if you have a home IVS program (because they have strong vascular departments that you can bank on), but absent that, hard sell.