competitiveness

[tiffin25]

congrats to all!!!

I think I will be applying to internal med next year and I was wondering what some of the avg scores were for med programs in nyc... (esp columbia, cornell, SLR and the like). Also, how would you rank the programs in nyc?

Again, congrats to all

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[Kalel]

There have actually been a number of threads on the ranking of nyc programs this year:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89974
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100802
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83743
Columbia and Cornell are known for being particularly stingy with their interviews, they seem to get a lot of applicants for their spots so they can be a little more picky. My IM chairperson told me that who they pick to interview from my state school seems to be pretty random every year, but I can tell you that I did not get an interview at Cornell, Columbia, NYU, and Mt. Sinai with a USMLE I of 230, avg grades (A's and B's, more B's), and decent letters. Einstein was the only NYC program that was willing to interview me.

 

[tiffin25]

kalel,

thanks for your reply. where did you end up matching? also, what medical school are you from?

thanks,
tiffin25

 

[Kalel]

Originally posted by tiffin25
kalel,

thanks for your reply. where did you end up matching? also, what medical school are you from?

thanks,
tiffin25

Matched at Brown U, from U Maryland. Thanks for asking!

 

[tiffin25]

congratulations kalel.... it must feel so nice to know what ou are doing and to also know where you are going to be!!!

just wondering if you or anybody else out there feels about st luke's roosevelt, beth isreal, new york methodist in brooklyn, and st vincents? my main questions are is it hard to get interviews there and also do they have good fellowship placement into cards and gi?

sorry for all the questions... once again, congrats to all

 

[exjersey]

American grads with below-average/average grades & scores should have no problem getting interviews at these places for IM. I don't know much about fellowship placement for these programs.

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by tiffin25
congrats to all!!!

I think I will be applying to internal med next year and I was wondering what some of the avg scores were for med programs in nyc... (esp columbia, cornell, SLR and the like). Also, how would you rank the programs in nyc?

Again, congrats to all

My personal experience with Manhattan programs this year was interesting. My advisor thought I am a good candidate and should be easily competitive at any of those programs... (good grades ("excellent" on dean's letter) but no AOA from top 15 southern med school, 240+ step1, good letters, etc.) I applied to Cornell Columbia NYU, and only got Columbia and NYU interview. Ironically, I am a Cornell undergrad alum, and am most interested in their program out of the three - and they wont even interview me!

I think where you go to school is extremely important to get the Manhattan interviews, in relation to the grades you get. If you go to a Manhattan school or a New England/Northeast powerhouse school, you can land interviews there even with average/slightly above-average credentials. There is someone I met on the trail from HMS got all 3 interviews (along with the likes of UCSF, Duke, etc.), and he admits that he is below average student at HMS, and have below national average step1. They tend to have a heavy regional bias - lots of people I meet on my 2 NYC interviews either go to school in the area, or is originally from NYC and want to return. It is more difficult for outsiders to break into the circle.

Just my thought.

 

[tiffin25]

thanks for your input renovar...

from what i have been reading,your thoughts pretty much echo what everyone else is saying.

do you have any thoughts on st luke's roosevelt or beth isreal or st vincents or any other "second tier" manhattan schools?

(i am assuming that cornell, nyu, mt sinai and columbia are all first tier schools)

were you happy with the match?

congratulations!!! and thanks for your input

 

[kito]

Just to add to what was said, it appears as if the area state schools like Downstate and Stony Brook send lots of students to all of the mentioned City programs.

 

[Fermi]

Originally posted by Renovar
They tend to have a heavy regional bias - lots of people I meet on my 2 NYC interviews either go to school in the area, or is originally from NYC and want to return. It is more difficult for outsiders to break into the circle.[/B]

Renovar,

Are you originally from the NY/NJ area, or elsewhere in the northeast? It seems to me that even the "lower-tier" schools in NY/NJ send significant numbers of grads to the top NYC programs. I can't tell whether this is just intense local favoritism, or the fact that a very high percentage of NY/NJ med students apply to these programs; maybe they don't have any better match rate than students form competitive schools nationwide. It's hard to decipher.

The same seems to be true for New England schools funneling into the big Boston programs. What is your take?

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by Fermi
Renovar,

Are you originally from the NY/NJ area, or elsewhere in the northeast? It seems to me that even the "lower-tier" schools in NY/NJ send significant numbers of grads to the top NYC programs. I can't tell whether this is just intense local favoritism, or the fact that a very high percentage of NY/NJ med students apply to these programs; maybe they don't have any better match rate than students form competitive schools nationwide. It's hard to decipher.

The same seems to be true for New England schools funneling into the big Boston programs. What is your take?

Well I am an international student (who attends a top 15 US med school) so that may be the reason. But I have gotten some other interviews from equal or better programs, so I didn't thought that it played a role - but everything may be different among institutions.

I matched at my home institution (if you really want to find out, read the other threads on this forum) which was my 4th choice. I was happy overall.

On my interview trail in NYC/NE area (Columbia, NYU, NEMC, Michigan), I did see lots of mid tier local med school applicants like BU/Tufts/NYMC/Sinai/AE/Hahnemann's, not everyone of them are exactly top tier credentials, either... But many of them have some sort of reason other than just wanting to be there... ie. their fiance works there, goes to school there, have family in the area, etc etc.

I am not sure what it is this year, but our school (on the whole) matched extremely well for IM overall, but was slighted by the NYC programs (ie. no IM match at Manhatten, an AOA applicant from my school ranked Cornell first, but got his second choice, Hopkins). Just made me think that local bias is extremely heavy, and that they seem to prefer locals over outsiders despite good credentials. I am not sure what it is this year, but looking at Cornell and Columbia's resident list would suggest that med school name is quite important... The people who matched there in the past 3 years appear to come from better schools (on the whole) compared to the pool of applicants they invite for interview (this year, at least on my interview day).

I noticed the same thing on many big-name west coast programs as well.

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by tiffin25
thanks for your input renovar...

from what i have been reading,your thoughts pretty much echo what everyone else is saying.

do you have any thoughts on st luke's roosevelt or beth isreal or st vincents or any other "second tier" manhattan schools?

(i am assuming that cornell, nyu, mt sinai and columbia are all first tier schools)

were you happy with the match?

congratulations!!! and thanks for your input

All academic Manhattan programs are all pretty close in quality. Columbia and Cornell has better Ivy league name, but NYU and more recenly Sinai has been a big player in academic medicine.

A friend of a friend of mine is going to St. Luke's for prelim medicine. Supposedly it's a good private program, quite cush, and have nice benefits (ie. subsidized housing if I am not mistaken) - if academic/reputation is not extremely important to you, then this may be a good option. It's still moderately competitive because of the location, but you wont have to fight your way through AOA's to match there.

BI in NY is Einstein affiliated, and therefore I deduce the more academic out of the three. Otherwise I dont have too much more information.

St. Vincents is a happy destination of many of our med school's prelim year applicants over the years because of their cushiness. I am not sure about their categorical program, but from what I have heard it's got a significant number of IMGs.

That's all I know about those programs, and my info is third hand so dont flame me for any inaccuracies.

 

[rajvosa]

Just to correct Renovar: St. Vincent's has only US graduates (16 of them). However, their fellowship list is not so great.

 

[june015b]

Most top IM applicants from NY/NJ med schools apply to the top NYC programs. A high percentage of NY/NJ med students are applying to these NYC programs. Many of them still don't get a spot over there.


>>

Originally posted by Fermi
Renovar,

Are you originally from the NY/NJ area, or elsewhere in the northeast? It seems to me that even the "lower-tier" schools in NY/NJ send significant numbers of grads to the top NYC programs. I can't tell whether this is just intense local favoritism, or the fact that a very high percentage of NY/NJ med students apply to these programs; maybe they don't have any better match rate than students form competitive schools nationwide. It's hard to decipher.

The same seems to be true for New England schools funneling into the big Boston programs. What is your take?

 

[ny skindoc]

It seems to me that even the "lower-tier" schools in NY/NJ send significant numbers of grads to the top NYC programs. I can't tell whether this is just intense local favoritism, or the fact that a very high percentage of NY/NJ med students apply to these programs; maybe they don't have any better match rate than students form competitive schools nationwide. It's hard to decipher.

I strongly doubt there is much in the way of local favoritism in the selection process of the manhattan residency programs.If there seem to be a good number of graduates of Downstate,Stony Brook,NJ etc its likely because competitive applicants from those schools were determined to stay in the NYC area and did rotations at their desired hospitals.Faculty at the NY area med schools are familiar with each other and LORs may carry more impact.It is typical that geographical proximity does influence the matching process.the number of BU and Tufts grads at Harvard hospitals is higher than might be expected because of this.