Competitve specialties

[Augstartcodon]

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Hi everyone,

I'm starting as an M1 in August, and I just have a few questions. I realize that as an M1 any idea that I think I have about a specialty is probably a joke (at least what I gather from reading what I've seen posted). How is it then that a person goes about getting into a competitive specialty (ortho, urology, etc.)? I understand that it's best to do research related to the field early on, but how early? I will definitely want to do research in the summer between M1 and M2, but how does an M1 go about choosing? Do you just shadow until you find something you like? Also, how often do you see people doing research during M1 while in classes?

I apologize if these things have been asked before. I'm a competitive (not a d-bag I promise sort of) person, and I feel like I'm pretty ignorant about how all this career stuff works (I guess this makes me a typical pre-med). Also I noticed a post in another thread where someone said it was ridiculous for M1's to go to stuff like grand-rounds and clubs. Why are these things frowned upon, and what else is frowned upon?

Thanks

 

[Augstartcodon]

I expect at least one poster drinking haterade btw

 

[madchemist89]

Not hating here, but if you do a search and spend a few hours reading, your questions will be answered more than satisfactorily.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

(not a d-bag I promise sort of)

This is suspect, given your current "status".
Unless your medical school started classes this spring, you're not a medical student.

+1 for haterade

 

[Augstartcodon]

This is suspect, given your current "status".
Unless your medical school started classes this spring, you're not a medical student.

+1 for haterade

The d-bag part was jk... Once again SDN delivers exactly as expected. The poster above you has given an equally useful reply, "a few hours reading" really couldn't be any more of an arbitrary answer. You could just post a link to some useful reading or something...

 

[LostinLift]

but how early?

Prenatal? Pre-medical?

If you can't even research when to start researching how are you gonna know how to research your research?

 

[HopefulReapp]

I'm in the same boat. I've shadowed about a dozen specialties and liked different aspects of each, but I have no idea where I might want to head in the future.

As I read that specialties are becoming more and more competitive, I wish I knew what I wanted to do in the future so I could give myself whatever edge possible. I had a close call getting into medical school and I don't want to repeat it getting into residency.

 

[gregoryhouse]

Start research on day 1 of medical school, right about the same time you should start studying for step 1.

You'll want to finish 3rd year with at least 15 pubs and step score of 280 or else just start applying to family med.

 

[dudeliness]

I also want to do medicine and procedures

 

[VisionaryTics]

I matched to ENT this year. I had never heard of otolaryngology before medical school. I got some exposure to it through shadowing as an M1 and had it in the back of my head as a potential career after that. I did research and made connections in the IM department before committing to ENT in the second half of M3 year. I got plenty of interviews and matched.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

The poster above you has given an equally useful reply, "a few hours reading" really couldn't be any more of an arbitrary answer. You could just post a link to some useful reading or something...

Its really not that arbitrary. The answers you're asking for are out there, and the questions have been asked dozens of times before. If you did a search of the forum you'd find lots of useful threads to read, instead of just snarking at us for not giving you a link (which would require us to do the search for you, re-read old threads that aren't particularly relevant to us now, and then post the link for you).

If you would like a suggestion, one that springs to mind is Neutropeniaboys stickied thread in the ENT sub forum.

 

[tvelocity514]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting as an M1 in August, and I just have a few questions. I realize that as an M1 any idea that I think I have about a specialty is probably a joke (at least what I gather from reading what I've seen posted). How is it then that a person goes about getting into a competitive specialty (ortho, urology, etc.)? I understand that it's best to do research related to the field early on, but how early? I will definitely want to do research in the summer between M1 and M2, but how does an M1 go about choosing? Do you just shadow until you find something you like? Also, how often do you see people doing research during M1 while in classes?

I apologize if these things have been asked before. I'm a competitive (not a d-bag I promise sort of) person, and I feel like I'm pretty ignorant about how all this career stuff works (I guess this makes me a typical pre-med). Also I noticed a post in another thread where someone said it was ridiculous for M1's to go to stuff like grand-rounds and clubs. Why are these things frowned upon, and what else is frowned upon?

Thanks

I feel like noone is answering you so I can at least tell you what I have gathered so far (I will be attending med school this falls as an M1 so take this with a grain of salt). In order to get into a competitive specialty, you need to:
1.) Do really well on boards after 2nd year (240+ unless plastics/derm/one or two others which are higher : aim ~250+). Pretty much, the higher your score, the better your chances.

2.) Many M1's have started using something called firecracker which is pretty much pre-made notecards you buy online/ on your phone which helps in retaining information and helps you question yourself for upcoming exams. Some people like to use anki instead (you have to make these cards yourself although sometimes you can find a deck you can download). These are not necessary to use but students have been using them to help their retention for boards. Just something extra.

3.)Research is really big if you want a competitive specialty and especially if you want a competitive residency in that field. Some people are able to start out their M1 year with a mentor and begin then. Far more people start the summer of their M1 year and continue on from there when they have time. Hopefully you can continue doing more throughout 2-3 year and do a research elective your fourth. Honestly, just do as much as you can spare the time and keep up with your grades.

4.)As a med student, it is a lot easier to find shadowing opportunities because doctors will actually be the ones you can talk to now and you aren't just a pre-med who "might" go to med school. Shadow if you have some time and just see what you like. Clubs and stuff are cool but they just don't really mean anything to residencies so that is why they might be frowned upon. Do EC's and clubs that you really enjoy and not just to actually do them.

5.) Finally, AOA is the honors society in med school and you really want to try and get that if possible. At most, the top one-sixth of a class can be inducted into the society, although this is in conflict with the national guidelines of AOA. The actual number is usually much less. Many schools will allow the top 25% of a class to apply during the spring semester of the student's junior year. The school's committee will then select a fraction of students from this group for membership. Schools will evaluate the following criteria: USMLE Step 1, CV (resume), a personal statement specific for AOA, and class ranking. A second application period occurs during fall semester of senior year in which more students are selected following the same criteria. ( I got this from wikipedia for the guidelines part)

Ultimately, just do your best and I'm sure you will do well in matching. Good luck!!

 

[mcloaf]

I feel like noone is answering you so I can at least tell you what I have gathered so far (I will be attending med school this falls as an M1 so take this with a grain of salt).

Blind leading the blind. SDN at its finest.

 

[Augstartcodon]

I feel like I asked some legit questions, what I get out of this is that the vast majority of SDNers are elitist A-holes who say unhelpful sarcastic things/put people down. This is especially true of current medical students, despite that it was only a few years ago that they were undergrads like me. I will not be asking for any advice again. No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

 

[Psai]

lol you're the one who comes in going "I expect at least one poster drinking haterade btw"

 

[LostinLift]

I feel like I asked some legit questions, what I get out of this is that the vast majority of SDNers are elitist A-holes who say unhelpful sarcastic things/put people down. This is especially true of current medical students, despite that it was only a few years ago that they were undergrads like me. I will not be asking for any advice again. No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

You broke the first and second laws of SDN:

1) Thou shalt use the search function for extremely common questions

2) Thouh shalt not change your status to medical student before being a medical student.

Seriously man, just browse these forums. I've read countless threads and PM'd many people for clarification and elaboration on things. If you ask intelligently and kindly people will answer you, but search first.


P.S. Have you even annotated FA yet? Flagged 20% FC? Get on it bro



P.P.S. I won't be a total dbag, Frazier is kindly assisting people so check out this thread

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...h-publications-posters-et-al-edition.1062882/

 

[Winged Scapula]

I feel like I asked some legit questions, what I get out of this is that the vast majority of SDNers are elitist A-holes who say unhelpful sarcastic things/put people down. This is especially true of current medical students, despite that it was only a few years ago that they were undergrads like me. I will not be asking for any advice again. No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

i'm sorry that you didn't find any useful information here. What the users were trying to convey to you is standard bulletin board etiquette. That is, before posting a question, it is considered polite to do a search because it is more than likely that someone else has asked the same question before.

Given that SDN has been around for 15 years and this etiquette is covered in our terms of service, it's not unreasonable that we would've expected you to have done that search first.

 

[mcloaf]

No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

No, I'd imagine most people in here are nice to their patients. As a future med student you get treated differently, your colleagues don't want to spoon feed you.

Honestly your questions weren't actually that bad, but are repeats of stuff that gets asked here a lot. I thought about answering but as a first year medical student I don't consider myself qualified to give advice (which is why I called out the premed above). You got at least 1 good reply, and probably would have gotten more but your attitude was too ****ty when people suggested you bother to do some of your own research. I suspect if you spend any length of time on SDN you'll end up seeing things from the perspective of most people in this thread.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I feel like I asked some legit questions, what I get out of this is that the vast majority of SDNers are elitist A-holes who say unhelpful sarcastic things/put people down. This is especially true of current medical students, despite that it was only a few years ago that they were undergrads like me. I will not be asking for any advice again. No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

You are going to love the 7+ years of medical training whenever it is that you finish undergrad. You are in for a treat my friend. I need to make sure I save this thread to fight back the umpteen zillion 'millennials are p******' threads that litter the web. To all the folks who read this and think "man, those are a bunch of really mean people!", please go do something hard before you get to medical school, specifically about half-way through MS3 when someone decide to take your training wheels off and treat you like the adult your parents and teachers can't or won't.

 

[HooliganSnail]

I feel like I asked some legit questions, what I get out of this is that the vast majority of SDNers are elitist A-holes who say unhelpful sarcastic things/put people down. This is especially true of current medical students, despite that it was only a few years ago that they were undergrads like me. I will not be asking for any advice again. No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

Whoa!!! Relax man. That being said you are a little bit correct.

 

[HooliganSnail]

Also......

To answer your question

Competative speciality = High Step 1 score. Class dismissed.

 

[HopefulReapp]

I feel like I asked some legit questions, what I get out of this is that the vast majority of SDNers are elitist A-holes who say unhelpful sarcastic things/put people down. This is especially true of current medical students, despite that it was only a few years ago that they were undergrads like me. I will not be asking for any advice again. No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

Bingo. People complain about malignant attendings but fail to see that the culture here is eerily similar.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Bingo. People complain about malignant attendings but fail to see that the culture here is eerily similar.

Actually the culture in SDN is worst...

 

[DermViser]

I feel like I asked some legit questions, what I get out of this is that the vast majority of SDNers are elitist A-holes who say unhelpful sarcastic things/put people down. This is especially true of current medical students, despite that it was only a few years ago that they were undergrads like me. I will not be asking for any advice again. No wonder people hate doctors, most of them are mean before they even finish school.

#1 - There is this thing called a search function. Hopefully you've heard about it and know how to use it.

#2 - There's a reason that people say that medical school changes you greatly, esp. during the MS-3 clinical year, in which you will be exposed to the utter realities of medicine and being evaluated by residents/attendings of you, not your ability to answer multiple choice questions. From the first day you enter as an MS1, till the time you finish MS-4, you will be a completely changed person. You will undergo a GREAT DEAL of personal growth and change in your worldview. This is augmented even further during residency training and as an attending. Reams of studies have shown this. It has nothing to do with being "mean" (I expect a layman such as yourself, to say that now, so I'll give you a pass for now). I say this as someone in dermatology, a relatively "happy" field. As someone such as yourself who hasn't even entered medical school, try not to throw stones just yet, when you too will understand soon enough, why this is the case. I mean this not to criticize you, but to point out to you what is to come.

 

[DermViser]

i'm sorry that you didn't find any useful information here. What the users were trying to convey to you is standard bulletin board etiquette. That is, before posting a question, it is considered polite to do a search because it is more than likely that someone else has asked the same question before.

Given that SDN has been around for 15 years and this etiquette is covered in our terms of service, it's not unreasonable that we would've expected you to have done that search first.

Something tells me the OP might think of himself as a special snowflake. He/she probably thinks she's the first person to ask this question in 15 years, or thinks the way he's asking the question is somehow so personalized to him, that there is no way those old threads would apply to him. I'm sure he'll be one of those who walks in to clerkships expecting attendings/residents to rain "Honors" evaluations on him like rose petals, just for showing up.

 

[DermViser]

I feel like no one is answering you so I can at least tell you what I have gathered so far (I will be attending med school this falls as an M1 so take this with a grain of salt). In order to get into a competitive specialty, you need to:

😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

You could just post a link to some useful reading or something...

Not until you change your status.

 

[gregoryhouse]

haha OP, the truth is medical school is a personal journey and people reach there goals through different means. If you are thinking about doing a competitive specialty but not sure which one my advice is to use your MS1 year to shadow between them to help guide you.

 

[Kaputt]

Love how pre-M1s/young med students come on here knowing they want to go into a competitive specialty. But which one? "Oh, any of them...ortho, urology, plastics, ENT, derm, etc." It's like they're choosing their specialty of interest because of it's competitiveness alone. As if they only care what other people will think of them. "Oh you matched ortho? I am intimidated by your awesomeness." Pleeeeeease. Shadow/rotate and find something you actually like...try to ignore perception of the field, the potential salary, and how your mom is going to feel when she gossips to the other moms at the club about what your career is.

 

[DermViser]

Love how pre-M1s/young med students come on here knowin' they want to go into a competitive specialty. But which one? "Oh, any of them...ortho, urology, plastics, ENT, derm, etc." It's like they're choosin' their specialty of interest because of it's competitiveness alone. As if they only care what other people will think of them. "Oh you matched ortho? me am intimidated by yer awesomeness." Pleeeeeease. Shadow/rotate and find somethin' you actually like...try to ignore perception of the field, the potential salary, and how yer mom be goin' to feel when she gossips to the other moms at the club about what yer career be.

Their entire self-worth so far is based on what OTHERS think of them (that and their grades), from preschool till now.

 

[Anastomoses]

Something tells me the OP might think of himself as a special snowflake. He/she probably thinks she's the first person to ask this question in 15 years, or thinks the way he's asking the question is somehow so personalized to him, that there is no way those old threads would apply to him. I'm sure he'll be one of those who walks in to clerkships expecting attendings/residents to rain "Honors" evaluations on him like rose petals, just for showing up.

Did SDN change the grammar on the meme too?

 

[DermViser]

Did SDN change the grammar on the meme too?

LOL!! No, but good catch!!

 

[evilbooyaa]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting as an M1 in August, and I just have a few questions. I realize that as an M1 any idea that I think I have about a specialty is probably a joke (at least what I gather from reading what I've seen posted). How is it then that a person goes about getting into a competitive specialty (ortho, urology, etc.)? I understand that it's best to do research related to the field early on, but how early? I will definitely want to do research in the summer between M1 and M2, but how does an M1 go about choosing? Do you just shadow until you find something you like? Also, how often do you see people doing research during M1 while in classes?

I apologize if these things have been asked before. I'm a competitive (not a d-bag I promise sort of) person, and I feel like I'm pretty ignorant about how all this career stuff works (I guess this makes me a typical pre-med). Also I noticed a post in another thread where someone said it was ridiculous for M1's to go to stuff like grand-rounds and clubs. Why are these things frowned upon, and what else is frowned upon?

Thanks

So... yeah. Use the search function, in the allopathic forum. Some nice people have already posted a couple links.

Very basic advice (because as others have said, it's been repeated ad nauseum)

If you don't know what you want to do yet, all you can do is keep every door open. The way you do that (for all fields) is by:
1) Doing well in M1 and M2
2) Doing well on Step 1.
3) Doing amazing on clinical rotations, getting awesome LoRs, and doing well on Step 2.

Regarding your specific questions:
1 - Try to figure out if you want to be a surgeon (in the OR, not just procedures here and there) or a non-surgeon. Are you slightly arrogant? Slight God complex? Like working with your hands? Generally want to fix people immediately? You may be a surgeon. You may also be not. Only you can answer that.
2 - Shadow. Go to any interest group meeting that may sparkle your fancy. Try to think about pros and cons of a specialty. Get free pizza.
3 - Regarding research - some people do it as a M1. Some people have an idea of what they want to do, others just do research in something interesting to them (remember, this is medical school. Research = abstracts/posters/presentations/publications, not just for the 'experience'). If you have multiple options that you are equally interested in, do the most competitive field (Derm over Neurology, for example).
Any research you do is better than no research, especially as a M1
4 - Continue Shadowing/research in your M1 summer.

Do NOT go to grand rounds. In comparison to the other people in the room, you will know as much as a layperson (which is to say, not much at all).

DO go to clubs (primarily specialty specific interest groups). They are there to help direct pre-clinical students into their career choices. Realize that becoming the leader of an interest group does not look as good on your resume as research in all competitive fields.

Now go forth, and save this response in your favorites. Then when a fresh-faced MS0 comes in next year, you can link to it, all while belittling the little MS0 just as all of SDN has done to you here.

You're welcome.

 

[Daodejing]

^ you sir win da internetz

 

[Sephiroth]

I'd second what evilbooya said regarding what to do. With regard to going in with an idea of what you want to do, Kaputt has a good point regarding just wanting to go into something competitive without the understanding of the differences between them. However, I've spoken to some M3/M4s about it, and while a lot of people change their minds, it's also that a lot of people aren't that sure what they want to do to begin with and/or don't have a great idea of what different specialties entail. For those that come in with a strong preference for a specific specialty and actually know enough about it, why they prefer that one, as well as what alternatives they would be foregoing, there's a decent chance that they will still want to do the same thing (assuming they end up competitive for it).