Complicated Situation

[Pawelek]

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Let's get to it! Lurked a while, love the community here. I've got a number of questions and some back story first. To clarify, I plan on contacting my state school (OU) to ask them these questions, but wanted some input from here also.

I attended The University of Tulsa for 4.5 years working on a BA in Physics and Psychology. I was on a full ride scholarship due to national merit scores (based off the PSAT for which I did not study at all). I'm basically a few classes away from finishing my degree. I ****ed around a lot and wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life/career. I stopped school a year ago to get my life together and figure out what I want to do. I plan to go back to school in summer if possible, if not in the fall.

I've been considering dentistry for a while and read on here last night that it really doesn't matter where you do your pre-reqs as long as it's a 4 year university. TU costs about 30k/year. A school in Oklahoma City is around 3k and OU is around 20k. I have only done Chem 1 and my physics classes as well as calc classes for the dental pre-reqs. I know I'd have to do about 3/4 more chem classes (depending on biochem's department at the school I choose) as well as at least 4 bio classes (2 intro, anatomy, and another seems to be the minimum required).

Bad Points:

1) I am not sure what my GPA is at the moment, I will update when I find out (hopefully Friday), but it's not very good. Probably around 3.0 cumulative and hopefully around there for science (maybe worse) . A lot of my upper-level physics classes were C's and I retook quite a few (had D's).

2) I got a C in Chem 1 and retook over the next summer for an A. It was easy, but like I said I didn't try hard in school. I wasn't motivated, now I am.

3) I don't have a degree and if I transferred to a cheaper school I wouldn't plan on getting one.

Questions:

1) Should I finish my degree? Will this help me get into DSchool? This would mean I'd have to shell out the extra 30k or maybe 15k for a semester. Would transferring to another (easier) school look bad?

2) Would transferring and acing all my classes (which I'm quite confident I could do) as well as rocking the DAT give me a good shot?

3) Does having D's or F's greatly reduce your chances of getting accepted to DSchool if your overall and BCP GPA's are at around 3.2? I suspected (and read that this was correct) that retaking a class will only mean you average your GPA over all grades received. Because of this going back to a 30k school to get an A in Improvisation seems totally unnecessary.

Thanks all, and I greatly appreciate your help. I've thought quite a bit about being a dentist and I'm fairly certain it's what I want to do. Finding out yesterday that I could possibly go to a different school was amazing. That would not only save me a great deal of money (like 1.5-2 years tuition) but would also probably mean I'd have an easier time of getting A's and I could maybe take some extra classes and get that GPA even higher. Cheers!

 

[dru180]

Let's get to it! Lurked a while, love the community here. I've got a number of questions and some back story first. To clarify, I plan on contacting my state school (OU) to ask them these questions, but wanted some input from here also.

I attended The University of Tulsa for 4.5 years working on a BA in Physics and Psychology. I was on a full ride scholarship due to national merit scores (based off the PSAT for which I did not study at all). I'm basically a few classes away from finishing my degree. I ****ed around a lot and wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life/career. I stopped school a year ago to get my life together and figure out what I want to do. I plan to go back to school in summer if possible, if not in the fall.

I've been considering dentistry for a while and read on here last night that it really doesn't matter where you do your pre-reqs as long as it's a 4 year university. TU costs about 30k/year. A school in Oklahoma City is around 3k and OU is around 20k. I have only done Chem 1 and my physics classes as well as calc classes for the dental pre-reqs. I know I'd have to do about 3/4 more chem classes (depending on biochem's department at the school I choose) as well as at least 4 bio classes (2 intro, anatomy, and another seems to be the minimum required).

Bad Points:

1) I am not sure what my GPA is at the moment, I will update when I find out (hopefully Friday), but it's not very good. Probably around 3.0 cumulative and hopefully around there for science (maybe worse) . A lot of my upper-level physics classes were C's and I retook quite a few (had D's).

2) I got a C in Chem 1 and retook over the next summer for an A. It was easy, but like I said I didn't try hard in school. I wasn't motivated, now I am.

3) I don't have a degree and if I transferred to a cheaper school I wouldn't plan on getting one.

Questions:

1) Should I finish my degree? Will this help me get into DSchool? This would mean I'd have to shell out the extra 30k or maybe 15k for a semester. Would transferring to another (easier) school look bad?

2) Would transferring and acing all my classes (which I'm quite confident I could do) as well as rocking the DAT give me a good shot?

3) Does having D's or F's greatly reduce your chances of getting accepted to DSchool if your overall and BCP GPA's are at around 3.2? I suspected (and read that this was correct) that retaking a class will only mean you average your GPA over all grades received. Because of this going back to a 30k school to get an A in Improvisation seems totally unnecessary.

Thanks all, and I greatly appreciate your help. I've thought quite a bit about being a dentist and I'm fairly certain it's what I want to do. Finding out yesterday that I could possibly go to a different school was amazing. That would not only save me a great deal of money (like 1.5-2 years tuition) but would also probably mean I'd have an easier time of getting A's and I could maybe take some extra classes and get that GPA even higher. Cheers!

1) Absolutely finish your degree. Look up a member here...doc toothache. He has a lot of excellent Excel spreadsheets. One indicates that it is extremely difficult to get in a D-school without a bachelors. Especially with your history.

2) Not without a bachelors. It will give you a shot, but you will probably need to start wrapping your head around the reality that even if you ACE every pre-rec class, you will probably have to enroll in a masters program. D-schools like upward trends, but they also like to see sustainability in those trends. Your pre-recs may not be enough to convince them.

3) Yes. And no. A lot of variables come into play here. It depends on the school, depends on how many D/Fs, depends when you got them, depends on your trend, etc etc. In your specific situation, I would venture to say that because of what sounds like more than one or two D/Fs, a masters program will likely be in your future.

To sum it up:
-You pretty much HAVE to finish your bachelors SOMEWHERE.
-Plan on ACING your classes and rocking the DAT
-Start researching masters programs for after your completion of undergrad.

BTW, I am in no way an adcom. Your best bet is, and always will be, to call the closest dental school to you and try and set up a sit down meeting. This way you can throughly go through your application with them and they can get you moving in the right direction.

 

[Pawelek]

Thanks for the fast response. Your answers are pretty much the worst case scenario I was imagining. Since I pretty much haven't taken ANY bio or chem classes I was hoping I could simply do some extra upper level bio classes instead of finishing my bachelors. Preferably at the much cheaper university.

I've heard one argument for doing post-bacc as opposed to a masters on here. The argument works in two parts I believe: 1) post-bacc will help raise your UG GPA which a masters will not, 2) if I don't perform amazingly in my masters I'm pretty much done, I can't really go back at that point and do lower level classes as it will look like backtracking and as if I couldn't handle the more intense classes. Basically, doing a post-bacc and then MAYBE a masters would allow me to save money and have a better chance of showing improvement.

Either way, I definitely need to sit down and talk to the adcom as you say, they'll have the final word.

EDIT: I did have a few D's and F's, not sure how many. Maybe around 5, some in non-sci classes and I think 2 D's in upper level physics classes as well as an F in an upper level physics lab. Really regret how I behaved back then, hopefully it's fixable :/

I'm a great test taker and don't think I'll have a problem doing very well on my DAT's. I also plan on shadowing 100+ hours pretty soon and have some physics and psych research experience.

 

[dru180]

Thanks for the fast response. Your answers are pretty much the worst case scenario I was imagining. Since I pretty much haven't taken ANY bio or chem classes I was hoping I could simply do some extra upper level bio classes instead of finishing my bachelors. Preferably at the much cheaper university.

I've heard one argument for doing post-bacc as opposed to a masters on here. The argument works in two parts I believe: 1) post-bacc will help raise your UG GPA which a masters will not, 2) if I don't perform amazingly in my masters I'm pretty much done, I can't really go back at that point and do lower level classes as it will look like backtracking and as if I couldn't handle the more intense classes. Basically, doing a post-bacc and then MAYBE a masters would allow me to save money and have a better chance of showing improvement.

Either way, I definitely need to sit down and talk to the adcom as you say, they'll have the final word.

EDIT: I did have a few D's and F's, not sure how many. Maybe around 5, some in non-sci classes and I think 2 D's in upper level physics classes as well as an F in an upper level physics lab. Really regret how I behaved back then, hopefully it's fixable :/

I'm a great test taker and don't think I'll have a problem doing very well on my DAT's. I also plan on shadowing 100+ hours pretty soon and have some physics and psych research experience.

It sucks I guess, but its the reality.

Heres what I have to say for the post-bac:
1) who cares if it doesnt change you UG gpa. It changes your overall gpa, and they get to see that your level of performance in a MASTERS LEVEL PROGRAM. (more closely related to a dental program)
2) if you dont do well in your undergrad post-bac, its not going to help you either. Why waste time....and THEN probably money. I can almost promise that a masters program isnt a maybe situation, its a PROBABLY situation.
3) Its fixable. It will just take work, time, and dedication. 👍

 

[Pawelek]

So would you guys say that getting into dental school with only the prereqs (maybe a bit extra) and no bachelors degree would be very difficult?

 

[Pawelek]

It sucks I guess, but its the reality.

Heres what I have to say for the post-bac:
1) who cares if it doesnt change you UG gpa. It changes your overall gpa, and they get to see that your level of performance in a MASTERS LEVEL PROGRAM. (more closely related to a dental program)
2) if you dont do well in your undergrad post-bac, its not going to help you either. Why waste time....and THEN probably money. I can almost promise that a masters program isnt a maybe situation, its a PROBABLY situation.
3) Its fixable. It will just take work, time, and dedication. 👍

I'm fine with work, time, and dedication. Actually, I love learning and I look forward to this. Probably the main reason I'd rather stay at the 30k private school is that I'd be more challenged and learn more. Spending somewhere around 100k+ extra is not ok however if at all avoidable. I really just need to call OU, set up an appointment, and meet with them.

About the masters, if I don't have my prereqs could I even incorporate 7+ classes (each with a lab) into a masters program? It just seems like doing an informal post-bacc makes more sense, but I honestly don't know a lot about it.

 

[dru180]

I'm fine with work, time, and dedication. Actually, I love learning and I look forward to this. Probably the main reason I'd rather stay at the 30k private school is that I'd be more challenged and learn more. Spending somewhere around 100k+ extra is not ok however if at all avoidable. I really just need to call OU, set up an appointment, and meet with them.

About the masters, if I don't have my prereqs could I even incorporate 7+ classes (each with a lab) into a masters program? It just seems like doing an informal post-bacc makes more sense, but I honestly don't know a lot about it.

I wouldnt want to spend that much money either! I dont understand why you dont just transfer to a different (cheaper!) university and finish your degree?

I think you are getting confused about the pre-rec/masters/postbac. You have to do your pre-recs before you can even get into a science related masters program or dental school. Period. Getting pre-requisites is different than doing a post-bac really.

 

[Bereno]

From my (very basic) understanding, you are at a disadvantage if you have no bachelors degree. Also, I am under the impression that if you want to specialize, you need a bachelors. All said and done, I would HIGHLY recommend finishing the bachelors.

If your oGPA can be pulled up into the 3.3 range, and you get a 20+ DAT, then I think are you have a solid shot at it.


Best of luck! 👍

 

[doc toothache]

From my (very basic) understanding, you are at a disadvantage if you have no bachelors degree. Also, I am under the impression that if you want to specialize, you need a bachelors. All said and done, I would HIGHLY recommend finishing the bachelors.
If your oGPA can be pulled up into the 3.3 range, and you get a 20+ DAT, then I think are you have a solid shot at it. Best of luck! 👍

Unless you happen to have some reliable basis, your "impression" only serves to keep the myth alive.

 

[Bereno]

Unless you happen to have some reliable basis, your "impression" only serves to keep the myth alive.

lol, that's very true doc. That is why I tried to show that I have a very basic understanding of the situation. Either way, if I can find some concrete data I will try and post it 👍

 

[93geo]

study hard for the dat. A good dat score can make up for a lower gpa.

 

[Pawelek]

Thanks for the advice everyone, but it's very clear to me that the best option is for me to contact OU Dental ASAP. Tried calling today, hopefully they'll call tomorrow and we can meet next week.

I'll let everyone how it goes and what they tell me as well as updates with my specific GPA's (which might be a bit worse than I estimated above).

I've read on here that the DAT is very 'learnable' as compared to tests like the MCAT or even the SAT/ACT. Hopefully my intelligence can still shine through and I'll get a great score. I'll probably start studying here in the next week so that I have 1-2 years of soft prep for it before I start studying hard. Thanks for everyone's help, really like the community here!