Compression fx/vertebroplasty question

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Medman2737

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Hey forum, weigh-in on this:

83 y/o F with new L5 compression fracture from 2 months back (30% superior endplate compression) with fracture lines that extend into the bilateral pedicles, L>R.
I want to fix this thing, but she also has history of L4-S1 posterior fusion with bone graft (fusion done in 1975) going right over the pedicle shadow. Hard to make out any definable anatomy needed on left, but I do see my landmarks on right.

Does anyone have experience trying to fix fractures in folks with these old-timey bone graft fusions?

Do I just go and block her facets? (medial branches are likely absent-it would be the equivalent of a "hardware block")

Do I hand her off to the spine surgeon for a corpectomy and VERY extensive surgery/recovery.

Thoughts?

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Hey forum, weigh-in on this:

83 y/o F with new L5 compression fracture from 2 months back (30% superior endplate compression) with fracture lines that extend into the bilateral pedicles, L>R.
I want to fix this thing, but she also has history of L4-S1 posterior fusion with bone graft (fusion done in 1975) going right over the pedicle shadow. Hard to make out any definable anatomy needed on left, but I do see my landmarks on right.

Does anyone have experience trying to fix fractures in folks with these old-timey bone graft fusions?

Do I just go and block her facets? (medial branches are likely absent-it would be the equivalent of a "hardware block")

Do I hand her off to the spine surgeon for a corpectomy and VERY extensive surgery/recovery.

Thoughts?

Refer her out to someone with an O-arm/CT if you can't see well, consider an extraapedicular approach, or do a unilateral access.
 
260807
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Steve you’re a total badass. And whoever did that fusion sucks! Seriously the screws are shooting up out of the superior end plate and there’s really no restoration of sagittal balance
 
I want to piggyback on this, did not do or get training in kypho.

I have a 91yo Mwith a fall 3 weeks ago and now trouble walking. CT says "subtle central compression with superior endplate cortical interruption" of L4. There is no vertebral height loss. He also has chronic L1 with 30% height loss.

Is kyphoplasty appropriate for acute fractures without height loss? I don't do them so would refer out. I don't have the CT here but attached xray. This is new (L4) compared to xray 2 months ago.
 

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I would see no reason to do without loss of Height
 
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I want to piggyback on this, did not do or get training in kypho.

I have a 91yo Mwith a fall 3 weeks ago and now trouble walking. CT says "subtle central compression with superior endplate cortical interruption" of L4. There is no vertebral height loss. He also has chronic L1 with 30% height loss.

Is kyphoplasty appropriate for acute fractures without height loss? I don't do them so would refer out. I don't have the CT here but attached xray. This is new (L4) compared to xray 2 months ago.

CT tells us nothing. MRI with STIR. Miacalcin/Ultram (or stronger med if needed), bracing, start OP mgmt- Tymlos,Forteo/Prolia. If MRI with hot STIR and canal adequate, and pain 7/10 or more, then fix it.
 
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I want to piggyback on this, did not do or get training in kypho.

I have a 91yo Mwith a fall 3 weeks ago and now trouble walking. CT says "subtle central compression with superior endplate cortical interruption" of L4. There is no vertebral height loss. He also has chronic L1 with 30% height loss.

Is kyphoplasty appropriate for acute fractures without height loss? I don't do them so would refer out. I don't have the CT here but attached xray. This is new (L4) compared to xray 2 months ago.
Just anecdotal but I did one 2 weeks ago for a fx with no/minimal height loss but hyperintensity on STIR and she got great relief.
 
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Just anecdotal but I did one 2 weeks ago for a fx with no/minimal height loss but hyperintensity on STIR and she got great relief.
So how much real cement were you able to put in a vertebral with no height loss?
 
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So how much real cement were you able to put in a vertebral with no height loss?
You should look at a bone model because you sound plain ole ignorant on this. Also, if severe loss of height, the remaining bone would be more dense by your logic. Hmm. Nope. Nope. Nope.
 
You should look at a bone model because you sound plain ole ignorant on this. Also, if severe loss of height, the remaining bone would be more dense by your logic. Hmm. Nope. Nope. Nope.
Yes I know you believe everything that shows up on STIR is the pain generator, but I still have doubts about augmentation when then is no loss of height
 
Yes I know you believe everything that shows up on STIR is the pain generator, but I still have doubts about augmentation when then is no loss of height

She fell and has severe back pain. STIR shows you acute inflammation in the vertebrae. Were you going to blame a degenerative disc?
 
The dynamic mobility of vertebral compression fractures. - PubMed - NCBI
Reporting height restoration in vertebral compression fractures. - PubMed - NCBI

Older paper but VCFs can have a great deal of variability with regards to height loss based on positioning. I would concur that history, MRI STIR, and exam are likely a better indicator of candidacy for BKP. In my mind, I'd rather intervene too early on a STIR positive lesion in a patient with severe pain rather than be too late on a plana.

As an aside, what STIR positive bone lesions are painless?
 
The dynamic mobility of vertebral compression fractures. - PubMed - NCBI
Reporting height restoration in vertebral compression fractures. - PubMed - NCBI

Older paper but VCFs can have a great deal of variability with regards to height loss based on positioning. I would concur that history, MRI STIR, and exam are likely a better indicator of candidacy for BKP. In my mind, I'd rather intervene too early on a STIR positive lesion in a patient with severe pain rather than be too late on a plana.

As an aside, what STIR positive bone lesions are painless?

Symmetrical modic changes on endplates across a disc.
 
She fell and has severe back pain. STIR shows you acute inflammation in the vertebrae. Were you going to blame a degenerative disc?

I think treating everyone who falls with STIR changes and no height loss is a slippery slope......when do you stop?
 
I think treating everyone who falls with STIR changes and no height loss is a slippery slope......when do you stop?

When pain less than 7/10. Then mbb, PT, fx prevention. Stir + means acute fx in these folks. Failure to treat will kill more than you know. SIS review underway. Doug Beall has done a great review already.
 
as a side note question - where do your compression fracture referrals come from? - PCP or surgeons? ER?
i'm trying to build for kypho referral network. any tips appreciated
 
CT tells us nothing. MRI with STIR. Miacalcin/Ultram (or stronger med if needed), bracing, start OP mgmt- Tymlos,Forteo/Prolia. If MRI with hot STIR and canal adequate, and pain 7/10 or more, then fix it.

Steve; do you initiate an anabolic WITH prolia? Or wait until 18 months and start Prolia after you d/c anabolic?
 
Prefer Tymlos over Forteo. Patients prefer Prolia if cannot do the daily injection.
Tymlos works less well if Prolia already given.
I present handouts and feel out ability to be compliant with daily injection for 18-24 mo.
 
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Prefer Tymlos over Forteo. Patients prefer Prolia if cannot do the daily injection.
Tymlos works less well if Prolia already given.
I present handouts and feel out ability to be compliant with daily injection for 18-24 mo.


I'm glad you see positive results and benefit to kyphoplasty. I stopped doing it a few years prior to the Spine and New England Journal articles. I feel like a real geezer and a negative Nancy, as the older I get, the more procedures I have abandoned. Anecdotally, it seemed as though just waiting them out for three months had the same outcome. However, I certainly see the argument for restoring "anatomy" to reduce the stress posteriorly on the facet joints.

Glad it works well for you, as I have encountered many who have had far different experiences with kyphoplasty compared to my own.
 
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I'm glad you see positive results and benefit to kyphoplasty. I stopped doing it a few years prior to the Spine and New England Journal articles. I feel like a real geezer and a negative Nancy, as the older I get, the more procedures I have abandoned. Anecdotally, it seemed as though just waiting them out for three months had the same outcome. However, I certainly see the argument for restoring "anatomy" to reduce the stress posteriorly on the facet joints.

Glad it works well for you, as I have encountered many who have had far different experiences with kyphoplasty compared to my own.

But isn’t that true of basically everything we do? I’m confused by that logic.

So I assume you abandoned epidurals since waiting 3 months will result in the same outcome, correct?
 
I'm glad you see positive results and benefit to kyphoplasty. I stopped doing it a few years prior to the Spine and New England Journal articles. I feel like a real geezer and a negative Nancy, as the older I get, the more procedures I have abandoned. Anecdotally, it seemed as though just waiting them out for three months had the same outcome. However, I certainly see the argument for restoring "anatomy" to reduce the stress posteriorly on the facet joints.

Glad it works well for you, as I have encountered many who have had far different experiences with kyphoplasty compared to my own.

271012
 


Well................................. There were two double blinded, randomized prospective studies in New England Journal and one in Spine, all in the same month about 7-8 years ago. It would be one thing if the studies appeared in garbage journals, yet NEJM and Spine are pretty solid. He sites a large clinical study which lacked an adequate control group as evidence for vertebroplasty, yet attacks studies with control groups!

I know that some people swear by it, but I just didn't see much difference. To each his own, however.

I also know people who swear that stimulators cover back pain very well, yet I have found this not to be the case in most patients.
 
[/QUOTE]
I also know people who swear that stimulators cover back pain very well, yet I have found this not to be the case in most patients.
[/QUOTE]

Stim is BS.

I do it, but I am not at all convinced it is anywhere near as efficacious as what everyone says.

I have had multiple NANS instructors lie directly to my face about any number of things regarding stim.

I have had stim cover the back and do a decent job of it. I use Burst exclusively bc I don't want to have to deal with recharging.

It is imperfect technology implanted by doctors who suck at surgery.
 
I also know people who swear that stimulators cover back pain very well, yet I have found this not to be the case in most patients.
[/QUOTE]

Stim is BS.

I do it, but I am not at all convinced it is anywhere near as efficacious as what everyone says.

I have had multiple NANS instructors lie directly to my face about any number of things regarding stim.

I have had stim cover the back and do a decent job of it. I use Burst exclusively bc I don't want to have to deal with recharging.

It is imperfect technology implanted by doctors who suck at surgery.
[/QUOTE]


Stim is certainly not "BS". It works very well for radicular or neuropathic pain, not axial pain. I would class stim, as well as cervical rf, as probably the most consistently effective pain treatments we have available. The problem is that stim is too often inappropriately used for axial pain.

I would agree that many are overly optimistic about the benefits of stim, but it is a very well studied, legitimate treatment for neuropathic pain. It is about the only treatment (beyond PT) that works for actual CRPS (which is very rare) and post lamy radicular pain.

Burst is nice; there is certainly something to high frequency, as patients with paresthesia stim previously seem to prefer it.

"Suck at surgery"? I would agree- I was trained by neurosurgeons and can do a perc stim skin to skin in 45 minutes. The more you do, the better you are, but very few fellows are given enough "reps" in training to be very good. They get better over time, like with everything.
 
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I also know people who swear that stimulators cover back pain very well, yet I have found this not to be the case in most patients.

Stim is BS.

I do it, but I am not at all convinced it is anywhere near as efficacious as what everyone says.

I have had multiple NANS instructors lie directly to my face about any number of things regarding stim.

I have had stim cover the back and do a decent job of it. I use Burst exclusively bc I don't want to have to deal with recharging.

It is imperfect technology implanted by doctors who suck at surgery.
[/QUOTE]


Stim is certainly not "BS". It works very well for radicular or neuropathic pain, not axial pain. I would class stim, as well as cervical rf, as probably the most consistently effective pain treatments we have available. The problem is that stim is too often inappropriately used for axial pain.

I would agree that many are overly optimistic about the benefits of stim, but it is a very well studied, legitimate treatment for neuropathic pain. It is about the only treatment (beyond PT) that works for actual CRPS (which is very rare) and post lamy radicular pain.

Burst is nice; there is certainly something to high frequency, as patients with paresthesia stim previously seem to prefer it.

"Suck at surgery"? I would agree- I was trained by neurosurgeons and can do a perc stim skin to skin in 45 minutes. The more you do, the better you are, but very few fellows are given enough "reps" in training to be very good. They get better over time, like with everything.
[/QUOTE]

Go to a NANS meeting and tell me that stim isn't BS. There are specific patients that do well with stim but according to the more prolific neuromodulators at NANS, there are an endless number of uses for stim. You name it and it will work for it. They lie, misrepresent the truth, and are used car salesmen.
 
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Well................................. There were two double blinded, randomized prospective studies in New England Journal and one in Spine, all in the same month about 7-8 years ago. It would be one thing if the studies appeared in garbage journals, yet NEJM and Spine are pretty solid. He sites a large clinical study which lacked an adequate control group as evidence for vertebroplasty, yet attacks studies with control groups!

I know that some people swear by it, but I just didn't see much difference. To each his own, however.

I also know people who swear that stimulators cover back pain very well, yet I have found this not to be the case in most patients.

2009. Kallmes, lying sack of crap. Could not recruit 1/20th of his patients, had horrible selection criteria, no true sham when you are giving active treatments. And these were not even acute Fx patients. But of course he still does them. Here is the response to the studies:

And now, SIS is doing a review of VA. I've got 2 weeks to complete evidentiary tables on 34 outcome studies articles. 2 other folks have the same number of articles. Then there are reviewers doing tables on the reviews, on complications, and more. Once I get through my part I will have a better understanding of the global literature on the problem, and not just the studies everyone gloms on to.
 

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2009. Kallmes, lying sack of crap. Could not recruit 1/20th of his patients, had horrible selection criteria, no true sham when you are giving active treatments. And these were not even acute Fx patients. But of course he still does them. Here is the response to the studies:

And now, SIS is doing a review of VA. I've got 2 weeks to complete evidentiary tables on 34 outcome studies articles. 2 other folks have the same number of articles. Then there are reviewers doing tables on the reviews, on complications, and more. Once I get through my part I will have a better understanding of the global literature on the problem, and not just the studies everyone gloms on to.


Well, further investigation is always helpful. However the two NEJM articles and the Spine article were not crap studies by any means. If it works well for you and your patients are appreciative, then you are doing your bit.

In my experience, I got about the same results as doing nothing about 3-4 months after fx. The vertebroplasty folks seemed to get better sooner to me, but in the end there did not seem to be much benefit. That is just my personal experience. I can say that about everyone I see who has had a vertebroplasty says that it didn't work. A pretty cool case recently was one in which the cement infiltrated to insertion of the illio-psoas and destroyed the muscle. That was a pretty cool sagittal image on MRI. The patient was not so thrilled, but I found it to be an interesting complication.

Compression fractures are one of the few things we deal with where the pain is pretty closely located to the site of pathology. However, these patients have so many other sources of pathology that if there is a benefit, perhaps it is lost in all the other aches and pains they report.

To each his own. We are all obviously influenced to a great extent by our personal experiences, right or wrong.
 
Well, further investigation is always helpful. However the two NEJM articles and the Spine article were not crap studies by any means. If it works well for you and your patients are appreciative, then you are doing your bit.

In my experience, I got about the same results as doing nothing about 3-4 months after fx. The vertebroplasty folks seemed to get better sooner to me, but in the end there did not seem to be much benefit. That is just my personal experience. I can say that about everyone I see who has had a vertebroplasty says that it didn't work. A pretty cool case recently was one in which the cement infiltrated to insertion of the illio-psoas and destroyed the muscle. That was a pretty cool sagittal image on MRI. The patient was not so thrilled, but I found it to be an interesting complication.

Compression fractures are one of the few things we deal with where the pain is pretty closely located to the site of pathology. However, these patients have so many other sources of pathology that if there is a benefit, perhaps it is lost in all the other aches and pains they report.

To each his own. We are all obviously influenced to a great extent by our personal experiences, right or wrong.

You are dead wrong. My experience and your experience introduced bias into our clinical decision making. The NEJM articles are pure junk. Please reference the Spine article so I can tell you if it has merit. Kallmes and Buchbinder published junk. Poorly designed studies intended to show no difference.
 
You are dead wrong. My experience and your experience introduced bias into our clinical decision making. The NEJM articles are pure junk. Please reference the Spine article so I can tell you if it has merit. Kallmes and Buchbinder published junk. Poorly designed studies intended to show no difference.


Well............................... I have published over 20 papers in the peer reviewed literature, so am not completely ignorant of evaluating the quality of publications. I really don't need someone to tell me if an article has appropriate methods and statistical analysis, but thanks for the offer.

Of course clinical experience introduces bias in clinic decision making. I just found kyphoplasty to not be much more effective than doing nothing, so I abandoned it. I know that many people feel it is an effective treatment and continue to use it for compression fractures. Again- to each his own. I have "ditched" a number of therapies that I thought offered marginal benefit: pulsed rf (I was probably the first to use this in the US, as I visited Sluyter and had our box modified by radionics- it just doesn't work), intra-discal rf, IDET, decompressor, nucleoplasty, prolotherapy, cryo of illeo-inguinal nerves, platelet rich plasma injections, and use of intrathecal pumps for non-malignant pain to name a few.

I will dig up the Spine article later. I know Jim Weinstein and know he took particular interest in that article as editor. It was pretty weird that the Spine article and the two NEJM articles were all in the same month.

Again, what we choose to do (and not to do) is based on many different factors and I do not "knock" those who use kyphoplasty- it's just not for me.
 
Well............................... I have published over 20 papers in the peer reviewed literature, so am not completely ignorant of evaluating the quality of publications. I really don't need someone to tell me if an article has appropriate methods and statistical analysis, but thanks for the offer.

Of course clinical experience introduces bias in clinic decision making. I just found kyphoplasty to not be much more effective than doing nothing, so I abandoned it. I know that many people feel it is an effective treatment and continue to use it for compression fractures. Again- to each his own. I have "ditched" a number of therapies that I thought offered marginal benefit: pulsed rf (I was probably the first to use this in the US, as I visited Sluyter and had our box modified by radionics- it just doesn't work), intra-discal rf, IDET, decompressor, nucleoplasty, prolotherapy, cryo of illeo-inguinal nerves, platelet rich plasma injections, and use of intrathecal pumps for non-malignant pain to name a few.

I will dig up the Spine article later. I know Jim Weinstein and know he took particular interest in that article as editor. It was pretty weird that the Spine article and the two NEJM articles were all in the same month.

Again, what we choose to do (and not to do) is based on many different factors and I do not "knock" those who use kyphoplasty- it's just not for me.
I think we can agree that it doesn’t affect the long term outcome significantly, but I do still offer it and have been somewhat surprised how many patients still want it. I counsel patients that the procedure can cause paralysis from the cement traveling to the spinal canal, or death from it traveling to the lungs, that if we wait 6 months their pain will most likely be no different with or without the kypho because fractures heal and stop hurting, that the most important thing is treatment of the osteoporosis, and that the kypho may not relieve their pain and may increase the risk of adjacent level fractures. After all that, I do offer kyphoplasty to patients in debilitating pain. Though I don’t put much weight on anecdote, my overall success rate (immediate relief of severe pain) is at least 75%.
 
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I don't disagree about the pain outcomes, but it's the data about long term mortality that leads me to be more aggressive about treating these.

If you're doing it primarily for pain, the question comes down to how long is it okay to have moderate to severe pain?
 
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Stim is BS.

I do it, but I am not at all convinced it is anywhere near as efficacious as what everyone says.

I have had multiple NANS instructors lie directly to my face about any number of things regarding stim.

I have had stim cover the back and do a decent job of it. I use Burst exclusively bc I don't want to have to deal with recharging.

It is imperfect technology implanted by doctors who suck at surgery.


Stim is certainly not "BS". It works very well for radicular or neuropathic pain, not axial pain. I would class stim, as well as cervical rf, as probably the most consistently effective pain treatments we have available. The problem is that stim is too often inappropriately used for axial pain.

I would agree that many are overly optimistic about the benefits of stim, but it is a very well studied, legitimate treatment for neuropathic pain. It is about the only treatment (beyond PT) that works for actual CRPS (which is very rare) and post lamy radicular pain.

Burst is nice; there is certainly something to high frequency, as patients with paresthesia stim previously seem to prefer it.

"Suck at surgery"? I would agree- I was trained by neurosurgeons and can do a perc stim skin to skin in 45 minutes. The more you do, the better you are, but very few fellows are given enough "reps" in training to be very good. They get better over time, like with everything.
[/QUOTE]

Go to a NANS meeting and tell me that stim isn't BS. There are specific patients that do well with stim but according to the more prolific neuromodulators at NANS, there are an endless number of uses for stim. You name it and it will work for it. They lie, misrepresent the truth, and are used car salesmen.
[/QUOTE]


I go to NANS every other year. I think that certainly there are those who have stretched the indications for stim. Exaggerating benefits of a particular treatment modality is par for the course for any pain meeting. I would say that ISIS and and Lax's meetings are probably the worst offenders in that regard. You just have to understand their marked bias and take away what may be beneficial from the meetings. NASS and ASRA are probably a couple of the more legit meetings.

However, when a patient has predominantly radiating neuropathic pain, they work very well. They are not "BS" by any means when patients have refractory radicular pain; I think that perhaps your perception is in contrast to results reported in the literature and the experience of most practitioners. In fact, I would offer that stim and cervical rf are probably THE most effective treatments we have.

How many stims have you done? I have done them for 28 years and do about 40 a year, so I am over a thousand. I have had three infections in that time and only five explants for lack of efficacy. Is your patient selection for those only with radicular symptoms, or have you performed stim for axial pain? The latter, of course, has a very high failure rate.
 
Stim is certainly not "BS". It works very well for radicular or neuropathic pain, not axial pain. I would class stim, as well as cervical rf, as probably the most consistently effective pain treatments we have available. The problem is that stim is too often inappropriately used for axial pain.

I would agree that many are overly optimistic about the benefits of stim, but it is a very well studied, legitimate treatment for neuropathic pain. It is about the only treatment (beyond PT) that works for actual CRPS (which is very rare) and post lamy radicular pain.

Burst is nice; there is certainly something to high frequency, as patients with paresthesia stim previously seem to prefer it.

"Suck at surgery"? I would agree- I was trained by neurosurgeons and can do a perc stim skin to skin in 45 minutes. The more you do, the better you are, but very few fellows are given enough "reps" in training to be very good. They get better over time, like with everything.

Go to a NANS meeting and tell me that stim isn't BS. There are specific patients that do well with stim but according to the more prolific neuromodulators at NANS, there are an endless number of uses for stim. You name it and it will work for it. They lie, misrepresent the truth, and are used car salesmen.
[/QUOTE]


I go to NANS every other year. I think that certainly there are those who have stretched the indications for stim. Exaggerating benefits of a particular treatment modality is par for the course for any pain meeting. I would say that ISIS and and Lax's meetings are probably the worst offenders in that regard. You just have to understand their marked bias and take away what may be beneficial from the meetings. NASS and ASRA are probably a couple of the more legit meetings.

However, when a patient has predominantly radiating neuropathic pain, they work very well. They are not "BS" by any means when patients have refractory radicular pain; I think that perhaps your perception is in contrast to results reported in the literature and the experience of most practitioners. In fact, I would offer that stim and cervical rf are probably THE most effective treatments we have.

How many stims have you done? I have done them for 28 years and do about 40 a year, so I am over a thousand. I have had three infections in that time and only five explants for lack of efficacy. Is your patient selection for those only with radicular symptoms, or have you performed stim for axial pain? The latter, of course, has a very high failure rate.
[/QUOTE]
Three infections out of over a thousand is far below the usual rates I’ve seen in the literature. What are your protocols (pre-op prep, abx, closure, etc)? Do you implant smokers? Diabetics?
 
Go to a NANS meeting and tell me that stim isn't BS. There are specific patients that do well with stim but according to the more prolific neuromodulators at NANS, there are an endless number of uses for stim. You name it and it will work for it. They lie, misrepresent the truth, and are used car salesmen.


I go to NANS every other year. I think that certainly there are those who have stretched the indications for stim. Exaggerating benefits of a particular treatment modality is par for the course for any pain meeting. I would say that ISIS and and Lax's meetings are probably the worst offenders in that regard. You just have to understand their marked bias and take away what may be beneficial from the meetings. NASS and ASRA are probably a couple of the more legit meetings.

However, when a patient has predominantly radiating neuropathic pain, they work very well. They are not "BS" by any means when patients have refractory radicular pain; I think that perhaps your perception is in contrast to results reported in the literature and the experience of most practitioners. In fact, I would offer that stim and cervical rf are probably THE most effective treatments we have.

How many stims have you done? I have done them for 28 years and do about 40 a year, so I am over a thousand. I have had three infections in that time and only five explants for lack of efficacy. Is your patient selection for those only with radicular symptoms, or have you performed stim for axial pain? The latter, of course, has a very high failure rate.
[/QUOTE]
Three infections out of over a thousand is far below the usual rates I’ve seen in the literature. What are your protocols (pre-op prep, abx, closure, etc)? Do you implant smokers? Diabetics?
[/QUOTE]

I do implant both diabetics and smokers. I do not implant anyone who has had a history of infections with other surgeries. If there is any indication of that, I'll check nasal and axillary cultures for MRSA. Perhaps it is luck, but I have been blessed with a very low infection rate. I was trained by neurosurgeons, not pain guys, and they taught me how to operate from an idiot's point of view (anesthesia pain- not a real surgeon). Keep it simple- it keeps you out of trouble.

I give pre and post op antibiotics (even though the literature says this is probably not needed, I still do anyway). However, the MOST important issues in my opinion, in reducing infections is-

1. a dry field- one must be meticulous in making sure that you don't have any bleeders remaining and have a dry field. This is probably THE most important issue of all of them. Blood is a wonderful medium for infection.
2. minimal surgical trespass- the less you traumatize tissue, the better off you are. Often people muck around when it is not necessary- this is a subcutaneous procedure, after all, and is not rocket science.
3. rapid surgical times- it takes me 45-50 minutes for a stim implant. I hear about stims taking 2-3 hours and wonder what the heck someone could possibly be doing for that length of time. I guess I would get bored after a while and just walk away.
4. very good fascia closure- run your finger along the fascia line and make sure you have no gaps.
5. Don't poison the patient with "vicryl toxicity"- I have seen other people's stims who put in way too many sutures- have faith that your sutures and ties are good- you don't need that many.
6. skin closure with staples- it pinches the skin and prevents a "highway" going to the fascia from skin sutures.
 
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You've only explanted 5 in 1000 cases? I do a few per month but definitely less than 40 per year. I have seen it provide miraculous benefit in CRPS, but I'm sorry man...If I'm at a NANS fellow course and the instructors are lying to my face, I don't know how to take the field seriously. NANS conferences are where ppl go to tell everyone how good they are at doing procedures and how everyone gets better as long as the insurance company says they can stim the patient. People have some hilarious stories at NANS, and the reps act as kindling. Tell me you've implanted 80 DRG leads and never seen a single migration, nor seen the therapy fail. GTFO. You get someone who in paid by Abbott or BS or Nevro and while you eat lunch you listen to that doctor talk and you almost wish you had failed back so you can go have that doctor implant you. It is buffoonery of the highest order. I implanted a woman today with an L2-5 fusion and chronic RLE pain. I expect she will do well, but she will always have pain, and probably a significant amount of it bc she's been on QID Norco 10s for years and stim won't undo her psychological dependence on opiates. Some pts, but not her.
 
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Most docs don't explant their own devices, so I don't doubt people's numbers. We need to be more honest with our failures though, because you can learn way more from mistakes than you can successes.

Why didn't you mandate an opioid wean prior to the SCS trial or the implant?
 
Most docs don't explant their own devices, so I don't doubt people's numbers. We need to be more honest with our failures though, because you can learn way more from mistakes than you can successes.

Why didn't you mandate an opioid wean prior to the SCS trial or the implant?

...bc she's a pt that will probably do well with a stimulator and it likely will improve her QoL despite her 40 MED. She chewed through MAC during that surgery.
 
...bc she's a pt that will probably do well with a stimulator and it likely will improve her QoL despite her 40 MED. She chewed through MAC during that surgery.

Yeah, I get it. It just seems like a great opportunity to practice paternalistically and get her safer. There was some study that suggested better outcomes if they were off opioids for the trial/perm, so I push people a bit more than I used to in that trial/perm period.
 
A little antagonistic at times, but these are the open discussions we need to be having in our field (absent the reps).
There are always holes in studies as well as anecdotal practice.
At the end of the day, we all just take in the info and do what we think is best.
 
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