Concerned about DEBT

[Saleemrodman1]

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So I need some advice. I was doing some calculations, and figured out how much debt I may be in after Medical School, without taking interest into consideration. I just don't know if I'll be able to get out of it, and it is really stressing me out. I am going to be attending ATSU-SOMA.

I'm pretty much asking for advice...is it possible to pay this off? Is this too high? How long will it take me to pay it off, if I live minimally throughout my residency years? Which loan should I take out first between the two? Any advice to calm me down will help. Thank you everyone!

Tuition: $59,802 x 4 years = $239,208.00
Year 1 Medical Equipment Fee = $1,000.00
Rent+Utilities = $800/month x 4 years = $38,400.00
Food = $480/month x 4 years = $23,040.00
Gas = $30/week x 4 years = $5,760.00
Phone/Other Bills = $53/month x 4 years = $2,544.00

Total (Without Interest) = $309,952.00


***Loan Options***

Loans

Type/Lender	Award Year	No Term	No Term	Total:	Accept
Scheduled Grad PLUS Loan	2019-20	$27,124.00	$27,123.00	$54,247.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$2,406.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$56,653.00	​
Scheduled Unsub Stfd Loan	2019-20	$21,135.00	$21,135.00	$42,270.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$452.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$42,722.00	​

 

[Chibucks15]

So I need some advice. I was doing some calculations, and figured out how much debt I may be in after Medical School, without taking interest into consideration. I just don't know if I'll be able to get out of it, and it is really stressing me out. I am going to be attending ATSU-SOMA.

I'm pretty much asking for advice...is it possible to pay this off? Is this too high? How long will it take me to pay it off, if I live minimally throughout my residency years? Which loan should I take out first between the two? Any advice to calm me down will help. Thank you everyone!

Tuition: $59,802 x 4 years = $239,208.00
Year 1 Medical Equipment Fee = $1,000.00
Rent+Utilities = $800/month x 4 years = $38,400.00
Food = $480/month x 4 years = $23,040.00
Gas = $30/week x 4 years = $5,760.00
Phone/Other Bills = $53/month x 4 years = $2,544.00

Total (Without Interest) = $309,952.00


***Loan Options***

Loans

Type/Lender	Award Year	No Term	No Term	Total:	Accept
Scheduled Grad PLUS Loan	2019-20	$27,124.00	$27,123.00	$54,247.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$2,406.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$56,653.00	​
Scheduled Unsub Stfd Loan	2019-20	$21,135.00	$21,135.00	$42,270.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$452.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$42,722.00	​

Welcome to med school. You just take out the government loans and don’t look at your loan balance again until you graduate. Yes it’ll suck to pay off but everybody does unless you act dumb in residency and beyond. There really isn’t that much more advice to give beyond that. It sucks but it’s the price we pay to do this. If it’s too much then back out now before you’re on the hook for it

 

[Robotfishbrain]

Like the person above me said, most students just don't think about it until residency and that works for most.

I was in the same boat as you when I started medical school. I sat down with a financial advisor and made a payment plan before I even started medical school. He deals with a lot of med students and from his experience doctors are notoriously stupid when it comes to money.

His advise was this -- Basically, even if you fall into FM and make ~200K a year, you can pay off a 300K debt load very quickly if you can live off of 2k a month. Not only will you pay your entire debt load in 3 years, you will also save over 100k in interest payments that can be used for investments. Obviously these numbers will vary slightly based on taxes/Cost of living/etc. But the general point still stands.

I would not ask a medical forum on finances. Many financial advisors have cheap consultations on debt repayment that I would suggest you do. Heck there are even online calculators you can use for repayment (I know the federal loans website has one) It'll save you so much money and stress having a plan in place.

Hope this helps.

 

[Saleemrodman1]

Thank you guys for the replies! I would hope that I can pay off that debt in 5 years. My main priority is to knock all that out of the way, so I can reap the benefits of not being broke anymore.

With that said, is the $300K (without considering interest) sound normal or is it too high or too low? I'm just trying to gauge if the figure is normal.

 

[Chibucks15]

Thank you guys for the replies! I would hope that I can pay off that debt in 5 years. My main priority is to knock all that out of the way, so I can reap the benefits of not being broke anymore.

With that said, is the $300K (without considering interest) sound normal or is it too high or too low? I'm just trying to gauge if the figure is normal.

For DO it is. Including undergrad I’ll be around 315 I think

 

[dohopeful13]

For DO it is. Including undergrad I’ll be around 315 I think

DO or any private MD as well

 

[LebronManning]

Go work hard somewhere rural in literally any specialty and pay it off in 2 years

 

[Saleemrodman1]

Go work hard somewhere rural in literally any specialty and pay it off in 2 years

If that is what is needed to be done, then I shall do it! As long as it is possible, then I am not going to steer away from this lifelong dream/opportunity!

 

[Ho0v-man]

It’ll probably break 400k by the end of residency

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

Don’t go to a major city/metropolis area. Go rural for a few years after residency and get your loans negotiated into a contract and take advantage of state loan options for rural physicians. Then move on when you’re ****s paid off. So many options to get your stuff paid for... no reason to fret over med school cost if you have even a bit of financial/negotiating savvy.

 

[Sardonix]

If you're really worried about finances or are just interested in them in general (both wise) then check out WhiteCoatInvestor. Great website discussing the finances of being a physician.

 

[Norwood-Sano]

Go work hard somewhere rural in literally any specialty and pay it off in 2 years

What is typically considered "rural"?
<5,000?
<10,000?
<35,000?
.....

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

What is typically considered "rural"?
<5,000?
<10,000?
<35,000?
.....

Look up physician shortage areas for your state... rural is defined differently for different state programs. You’d be surprised as what’s considered rural

 

[NITRAS]

I’m not trying to be too dramatic, but it should scare you up to the point that you qualify for a medical license (most states is after your pgy 1 year and passed STEPs.

 

[LebronManning]

What is typically considered "rural"?
<5,000?
<10,000?
<35,000?
.....

In terms of physician salary I would say 150-350k is the sweet spot. Under 150 sometimes lacks the resources to actually pay you big bucks. But above that the resources are there and the demand is likely unmet. I grew up in Denver where docs get paid very poorly generally but just 60 miles south to Colorado Springs where population is more than 400k, hospitalists are making 350-400k. Anesthesiologists more than 550. You get the picture.

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

In terms of physician salary I would say 150-350k is the sweet spot. Under 150 sometimes lacks the resources to actually pay you big bucks. But above that the resources are there and the demand is likely unmet. I grew up in Denver where docs get paid very poorly generally but just 60 miles south to Colorado Springs where population is more than 400k, hospitalists are making 350-400k. Anesthesiologists more than 550. You get the picture.

Yes and no.. small rural hospitals are subsidized through federal funding and pay is generally competitive if you are employed. However, it could be difficult if you are going out and hanging your own shingle. I’m from a town of 50K and the pay is very good (~250-300k base pay for FM clinic) if you aren’t trying to do only 3-4 days/week.

 

[hungrydoc710]

Thank you guys for the replies! I would hope that I can pay off that debt in 5 years. My main priority is to knock all that out of the way, so I can reap the benefits of not being broke anymore.

With that said, is the $300K (without considering interest) sound normal or is it too high or too low? I'm just trying to gauge if the figure is normal.

High, but it's all relative.
My tuition is 15K cheaper per year + my parents cover my COL, so I literally just take out tuition.

If you can't see yourself doing anything else, you just gotta pull thru it.

 

[Sardonix]

In terms of physician salary I would say 150-350k is the sweet spot. Under 150 sometimes lacks the resources to actually pay you big bucks. But above that the resources are there and the demand is likely unmet. I grew up in Denver where docs get paid very poorly generally but just 60 miles south to Colorado Springs where population is more than 400k, hospitalists are making 350-400k. Anesthesiologists more than 550. You get the picture.

Dunno where you're getting the general information here, but it seems to be more relevant to high density/coastal locations.

For example, my FM preceptor showed me offers he regularly gets to transfer to Nowhere, Iowa for $400,000 a year.

Other preceptors told me that starting immediately out of residency the midwest is, on average, paying +220,000 in most locations.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Dunno where you're getting the general information here, but it seems to be more relevant to high density/coastal locations.

For example, my FM preceptor showed me offers he regularly gets to transfer to Nowhere, Iowa for $400,000 a year.

Other preceptors told me that starting immediately out of residency the midwest is, on average, paying +220,000 in most locations.

The volume required to get 400k as a FM employee is insane, talking like 40+ visits a day. The only way you hit that with decency is being a partner in a good practice. Most of those 'crazy FM offers' are not actually sustainable in the markets they come from. Be wary.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

The volume required to get 400k as a FM employee is insane, talking like 40+ visits a day. The only way you hit that with decency is being a partner in a good practice. Most of those 'crazy FM offers' are not actually sustainable in the markets they come from. Be wary.

Depends on payor mix. If you are practicing in SoCal and all you're seeing is Medi-Cal pts (medicaid), then yes, you'd need to see 40-45 daily to generate 400k of after overhead income. However, if you are in an affluent neighborhood, where most of your patients are privately insured, you'd probably need to see no more than 25-30.

Therefore, let's take an average case scenario, where your average RVU reimbursement is = medicare rate of $36.

On average, each encounter should generate 3 total RVU's (some are less some are more depending on new vs established, acuity, complexity, labs, vaccines, etc.). This means that each encounter generates about 108 of total collections. Assuming 50% overhead, your share would be $54 per encounter.

So to generate 400K, you'd need to see 7400 encounters. If you work 5 days a week and 46 weeks a year after factoring vacation, holidays, CME, this comes out to be 32 pts a day.

 

[4thtimeretaker]

Depends on payor mix. If you are practicing in SoCal and all you're seeing is Medi-Cal pts (medicaid), then yes, you'd need to see 40-45 daily to generate 400k of after overhead income. However, if you are in an affluent neighborhood, where most of your patients are privately insured, you'd probably need to see no more than 25-30.

Therefore, let's take an average case scenario, where your average RVU reimbursement is = medicare rate of $36.

On average, each encounter should generate 3 total RVU's (some are less some are more depending on new vs established, acuity, complexity, labs, vaccines, etc.). This means that each encounter generates about 108 of total collections. Assuming 50% overhead, your share would be $54 per encounter.

So to generate 400K, you'd need to see 7400 encounters. If you work 5 days a week and 46 weeks a year after factoring vacation, holidays, CME, this comes out to be 32 pts a day.

So what happens if you aren't able to meet the 32 pt per day requirement (due to not enough people, slowness, etc), does this mean your 400K earning potential is decreased every day you see under 32 pts? What I'm trying to get at is that some days you may not be able to see 32 patients, not matter if you have the speed to see 70 a day. What happens because of those unfilled patients?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

So what happens if you aren't able to meet the 32 pt per day requirement (due to not enough people, slowness, etc), does this mean your 400K earning potential is decreased every day you see under 32 pts? What I'm trying to get at is that some days you may not be able to see 32 patients, not matter if you have the speed to see 70 a day. What happens because of those unfilled patients?

That's why I'd be very wary about jobs that promise a base pay of 400k. Most jobs in primary care, however, offer a base salary of 180-220k plus production incentives, where you are paid a percentage of your overall collection once you surpass a certain amount of collections. Similarly, in many cases, if you don't generate enough profit to cover your own salary + benefits + your share of overhead costs, your promised salary will be negatively influenced.

If you are running your own solo practice, then it's very simple; your income will be your collections minus your expenses. One PCP recently posted in the IM forum that he runs his practice so efficiently that his overhead portion is only 27% of his gross collection. On the other hand, I have seen doctors lose up to 70% of their total collections for overhead costs (ie ophthalmology).

 

[Sardonix]

Yeah there's a reason my preceptor laughed at the offer of $400k in a small town. You would make bank, but you might be the only doctor there and they'd be looking to get their money's worth for sure.

That said, the point stands that you can make good money these as an FM doc. It's more about what you want to do and HOW MUCH of it you want to do.

 

[SLC]

I’m on track to surpass $300k soon, I’m less than a year into attendinghood. And that’s working 6-7 clinical hours per day, 4 days per week, averaging 1-2 weekends per month on hospitalist call (where I spend an average of 8-10 total hours actually in the hospital for the whole weekend; and the rest at home).

I’m averaging 16-20 clinic patients per day, but that’s increasing and my target is 20-24. I’m in a town of 6k people, county of about 28k people which is serviced by about 14 PCP’s, a surgeon, a handful of PA’s and a band of visiting specialists. I really really like this job BTW; 1 yr in and I honestly see myself staying here for the long haul.

The side benefit is that the cost of living here is very low. So my income goes way farther. My exact home would easily have cost $250k more just an hour from here in the city. I can drive there when I need an urban fix. I’ll bank the difference!

 

[theriverman]

Thank you guys for the replies! I would hope that I can pay off that debt in 5 years. My main priority is to knock all that out of the way, so I can reap the benefits of not being broke anymore.

With that said, is the $300K (without considering interest) sound normal or is it too high or too low? I'm just trying to gauge if the figure is normal.

It's high but there are higher. With interest you'll be closer to 400k than 300k if I had to guess.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

So I need some advice.

Marry someone who is making bank (engineer, nurse, lawyer, etc) already and convince them that dumping the next 4-8 years of their finances and personal life into you is worth it. Tell them to think of it like an investment. You'll graduate with no debt and maybe even a nice surplus or just some kids.
Good luck!

 

[RaidenXVC]

Marry someone who is making bank (engineer, nurse, lawyer, etc)

As someone who ditched medicine for engineering (electrical engineering mind you) I can tell you that while I can expect the pay to be decent, I'd still make more money going back to medical school provided I did anything other than peds/FM. Even with taking out over $300K in loans. I'll definitely not be making enough to pay for medical school tuition in cash.

 

[deleted967981]

Marry someone who is making bank (engineer, nurse, lawyer, etc) already and convince them that dumping the next 4-8 years of their finances and personal life into you is worth it. Tell them to think of it like an investment. You'll graduate with no debt and maybe even a nice surplus or just some kids.
Good luck!

Married to a lawyer. They don’t necessarily make enough to cover Med school tuition in cash.

 

[Cheeni17]

I’m on track to surpass $300k soon, I’m less than a year into attendinghood. And that’s working 6-7 clinical hours per day, 4 days per week, averaging 1-2 weekends per month on hospitalist call (where I spend an average of 8-10 total hours actually in the hospital for the whole weekend; and the rest at home).

I’m averaging 16-20 clinic patients per day, but that’s increasing and my target is 20-24. I’m in a town of 6k people, county of about 28k people which is serviced by about 14 PCP’s, a surgeon, a handful of PA’s and a band of visiting specialists. I really really like this job BTW; 1 yr in and I honestly see myself staying here for the long haul.

The side benefit is that the cost of living here is very low. So my income goes way farther. My exact home would easily have cost $250k more just an hour from here in the city. I can drive there when I need an urban fix. I’ll bank the difference!

Bhut ur famly mhed mannn nobo thinks it kool enuf
-ms1/2s

 

[Ho0v-man]

I’m on track to surpass $300k soon, I’m less than a year into attendinghood. And that’s working 6-7 clinical hours per day, 4 days per week, averaging 1-2 weekends per month on hospitalist call (where I spend an average of 8-10 total hours actually in the hospital for the whole weekend; and the rest at home).

I’m averaging 16-20 clinic patients per day, but that’s increasing and my target is 20-24. I’m in a town of 6k people, county of about 28k people which is serviced by about 14 PCP’s, a surgeon, a handful of PA’s and a band of visiting specialists. I really really like this job BTW; 1 yr in and I honestly see myself staying here for the long haul.

The side benefit is that the cost of living here is very low. So my income goes way farther. My exact home would easily have cost $250k more just an hour from here in the city. I can drive there when I need an urban fix. I’ll bank the difference!

Tldr; long post about being sad you couldn’t get into ortho
🤣

 

[Cheeni17]

Tldr; long post about being sad you couldn’t get into ortho
🤣

Eff surg who wants to do that stuff

 

[Cheeni17]

Marry someone who is making bank (engineer, nurse, lawyer, etc) already and convince them that dumping the next 4-8 years of their finances and personal life into you is worth it. Tell them to think of it like an investment. You'll graduate with no debt and maybe even a nice surplus or just some kids.
Good luck!

Since when do nurses make bank except maybe crna. The pracks around here might make 100k if they lucky. Still twice what most of them are worth

 

[Ho0v-man]

Eff surg who wants to do that stuff

I was being sarcastic. Most of SLCs posts make me want to do FM

 

[Cheeni17]

I was being sarcastic. Most of SLCs posts make me want to do FM

I know lol

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

Since when do nurses make bank except maybe crna. The pracks around here might make 100k if they lucky. Still twice what most of them are worth

I'll respond to this just to ensure that my original idea, however counter culture it is, is seen for it's true brilliance.

I guess "bank" is relative, but I imagine any SDN goobers who have yet to complete residency might see any positive cash flow as "bank". Imagine if your med school costed 75k a year (a lot) and your "partner" pulled in 80k (normal where I'm sitting) as an RN, not CRNA, not BSN, not ARNP, just RN at the local hospital. To me (the poor med student facing life crippling debt) even a meager 50k (LPN or long term care maybe) would be life changing money. From my perspective, life changing money = "Bank". When I become the cream of the crop with my fancy medical degree and 250K paycheck, I'm sure my perspective will change as will my political alignment.
I know there's a lot of midlevel drama around here, but if you want to make 200k as a nurse the opportunities are available.
...And bro with >5 years experience there are plenty of RNs pullin 100K. But this could be because you live Arkansas or something, even then I feel like cost of living helps balance that. But no one should be going to Arkansas for anything. Arkansas is a terrible place.

 

[Cheeni17]

I'll respond to this just to ensure that my original idea, however counter culture it is, is seen for it's true brilliance.

I guess "bank" is relative, but I imagine any SDN goobers who have yet to complete residency might see any positive cash flow as "bank". Imagine if your med school costed 75k a year (a lot) and your "partner" pulled in 80k (normal where I'm sitting) as an RN, not CRNA, not BSN, not ARNP, just RN at the local hospital. To me (the poor med student facing life crippling debt) even a meager 50k (LPN or long term care maybe) would be life changing money. From my perspective, life changing money = "Bank". When I become the cream of the crop with my fancy medical degree and 250K paycheck, I'm sure my perspective will change as will my political alignment.
I know there's a lot of midlevel drama around here, but if you want to make 200k as a nurse the opportunities are available.
...And bro with >5 years experience there are plenty of RNs pullin 100K. But this could be because you live Arkansas or something, even then I feel like cost of living helps balance that. But no one should be going to Arkansas for anything. Arkansas is a terrible place.

200k as a nurse is few and far between minus the crnas lol. And the Rns pulling 100 are usually in Cali or in management. Not the norm at all

 

[thepoopologist]

So I need some advice. I was doing some calculations, and figured out how much debt I may be in after Medical School, without taking interest into consideration. I just don't know if I'll be able to get out of it, and it is really stressing me out. I am going to be attending ATSU-SOMA.

I'm pretty much asking for advice...is it possible to pay this off? Is this too high? How long will it take me to pay it off, if I live minimally throughout my residency years? Which loan should I take out first between the two? Any advice to calm me down will help. Thank you everyone!

Tuition: $59,802 x 4 years = $239,208.00
Year 1 Medical Equipment Fee = $1,000.00
Rent+Utilities = $800/month x 4 years = $38,400.00
Food = $480/month x 4 years = $23,040.00
Gas = $30/week x 4 years = $5,760.00
Phone/Other Bills = $53/month x 4 years = $2,544.00

Total (Without Interest) = $309,952.00


***Loan Options***

Loans

Type/Lender	Award Year	No Term	No Term	Total:	Accept
Scheduled Grad PLUS Loan	2019-20	$27,124.00	$27,123.00	$54,247.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$2,406.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$56,653.00	​
Scheduled Unsub Stfd Loan	2019-20	$21,135.00	$21,135.00	$42,270.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$452.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$42,722.00	​

You're probably looking at $400k after a 4 year residency

The debt is definitely not something to take lightly. I worried about it all through medical school and residency. It is still on my mind.

The fact is, if you want to be a doctor there's nothing you can do except become a board certified doctor, because if you don't become one, you 100% won't be able to pay it off.

I can also say that $200k or $300k a year is definitely not close to the number you want it to be after taxes are taken out. That's life man

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

200k as a nurse is few and far between minus the crnas lol. And the Rns pulling 100 are usually in Cali or in management. Not the norm at all

Not really the point but, yeah the 200 takes a good deal of extra work and school. But 100k as a nurse is a very real and happening thing. “Normal” is like 70k, lol for an RN. Which is again aside from the point, because a “normal” 1.0FTE nurse could pull in enough to fully offset the student loans of 90% of the med student in America.

Remember kids: Taking home a nurse means taking home BANK.

 

[Cheeni17]

Not really the point but, yeah the 200 takes a good deal of extra work and school. But 100k as a nurse is a very real and happening thing. “Normal” is like 70k, lol for an RN. Which is again aside from the point, because a “normal” 1.0FTE nurse could pull in enough to fully offset the student loans of 90% of the med student in America.

Remember kids: Taking home a nurse means taking home BANK.

Seeking one FTE nurse pst.

I know in some places in cali nurses can make almost as much as a fm doc. Such a messed up place over there. What they do to command a doctors salary from handing out meds and giving bed baths beats me

 

[curr4410]

Not really the point but, yeah the 200 takes a good deal of extra work and school. But 100k as a nurse is a very real and happening thing. “Normal” is like 70k, lol for an RN. Which is again aside from the point, because a “normal” 1.0FTE nurse could pull in enough to fully offset the student loans of 90% of the med student in America.

Remember kids: Taking home a nurse means taking home BANK.

I’ve worked in 3 different states as an RN BSN. I can tell you with confidence the only people I met making 100K without pulling major overtime were BSN nurses near retirement - and they were still pulling overtime. Most nurses I know were making between 50-70K base. Even with my experience in psych my base is about 60000. With the level of overtime I work (up to 84 hrs/week), I make about 80K. It’s a comfortable life, definitely. But sure as heck wouldn’t put a dent in paying for medical school.

- From an RN with a few extra certifications that also raise base pay.

 

[Sardonix]

I'll respond to this just to ensure that my original idea, however counter culture it is, is seen for it's true brilliance.

I guess "bank" is relative, but I imagine any SDN goobers who have yet to complete residency might see any positive cash flow as "bank". Imagine if your med school costed 75k a year (a lot) and your "partner" pulled in 80k (normal where I'm sitting) as an RN, not CRNA, not BSN, not ARNP, just RN at the local hospital. To me (the poor med student facing life crippling debt) even a meager 50k (LPN or long term care maybe) would be life changing money. From my perspective, life changing money = "Bank". When I become the cream of the crop with my fancy medical degree and 250K paycheck, I'm sure my perspective will change as will my political alignment.
I know there's a lot of midlevel drama around here, but if you want to make 200k as a nurse the opportunities are available.
...And bro with >5 years experience there are plenty of RNs pullin 100K. But this could be because you live Arkansas or something, even then I feel like cost of living helps balance that. But no one should be going to Arkansas for anything. Arkansas is a terrible place.

"Splish splash only $80k is trash!"

For real though, you can see the naivety come out in medical students when you start discussing money issues. There's usually three camps:
1. The ones who have never worked an actual job and think FM salaries of $200,000 are poverty, regardless of COL factors
2. The ones who have come from nothing or worked for everything they have and are amazed by the idea of making 6 figures
3. Everyone else in between (the majority) who haven't really thought about it, but when they do they can appreciate how odd this whole situation is

I get that we all would rather not think about what we're missing out on by being in medical school, but nothing pisses me off more than someone saying "That ___ only makes ___ a year. I'll make so much more than that!" It completely ignores the simple math of compound interest, ability to invest/save instead of going more into debt, and the time and effort it will take to pay off $300-500,000 in student loans.

I am very happy I went to medical school and with some smart choices/dedication the giant cost of it really won't be a huge problem in the long run. But it doesn't take much to understand why physicians are widely known to be doo doo with money.

 

[curr4410]

"Splish splash only $80k is trash!"

For real though, you can see the naivety come out in medical students when you start discussing money issues. There's usually three camps:
1. The ones who have never worked an actual job and think FM salaries of $200,000 are poverty, regardless of COL factors
2. The ones who have come from nothing or worked for everything they have and are amazed by the idea of making 6 figures
3. Everyone else in between (the majority) who haven't really thought about it, but when they do they can appreciate how odd this whole situation is

I get that we all would rather not think about what we're missing out on by being in medical school, but nothing pisses me off more than someone saying "That ___ only makes ___ a year. I'll make so much more than that!" It completely ignores the simple math of compound interest, ability to invest/save instead of going more into debt, and the time and effort it will take to pay off $300-500,000 in student loans.

I am very happy I went to medical school and with some smart choices/dedication the giant cost of it really won't be a huge problem in the long run. But it doesn't take much to understand why physicians are widely known to be doo doo with money.

I just don’t like when people like to poke fun at nurses. We work really, really hard. As a psych nurse I still do foleys, injections, help with PICC lines, watch bloodwork for infection, monitor for side effects, give meds, do an assessment every shift and is expected to know what I’m seeing/hearing well enough to be able to tell the doc my concerns (if there are any). I come home after getting punched in the face, or peed on, spit on, attacked, or helping get an unruly psych patient bathed. I’m so excited to be a doctor - because it will give me more education and let me treat my patients. I fully expect to live like a nurse once I graduate and it will be a great life - one in which I can also pay for medical school debt.

I think it’s important to remember going in that
A) everything looks better on the other side
B ) living ‘beneath your means’ as a physician is still a really good life
C) income is RELATIVE to debt - making more money at work doesn’t necessarily mean you’re making more money at home. After paying any loans, I thoroughly expect my take-home income to be the same or lower than it is as a nurse. I’m definitely not going to school to make more money.
D) student loans suck for everyone. Those ‘high paying’ jobs mentioned also come with loans for a lot of people, which is frequently about the same ratio to income. (I.e my nursing program was 40,000 at a public university after fees. I now make about 60K base. I got a full ride scholarship, but my friends who did not will be paying on loans for a long time.)

If you’re smart, work hard, get scholarships, and don’t try to live like a high-roller, you’ll be Ok.

 

[Sardonix]

I just don’t like when people like to poke fun at nurses. We work really, really hard. As a psych nurse I still do foleys, injections, help with PICC lines, watch bloodwork for infection, monitor for side effects, give meds, do an assessment every shift and is expected to know what I’m seeing/hearing well enough to be able to tell the doc my concerns (if there are any). I come home after getting punched in the face, or peed on, spit on, attacked, or helping get an unruly psych patient bathed. I’m so excited to be a doctor - because it will give me more education and let me treat my patients. I fully expect to live like a nurse once I graduate and it will be a great life - one in which I can also pay for medical school debt.

I think it’s important to remember going in that
A) everything looks better on the other side
B ) living ‘beneath your means’ as a physician is still a really good life
C) income is RELATIVE to debt - making more money at work doesn’t necessarily mean you’re making more money at home. After paying any loans, I thoroughly expect my take-home income to be the same or lower than it is as a nurse. I’m definitely not going to school to make more money.
D) student loans suck for everyone. Those ‘high paying’ jobs mentioned also come with loans for a lot of people, which is frequently about the same ratio to income. (I.e my nursing program was 40,000 at a public university after fees. I now make about 60K base. I got a full ride scholarship, but my friends who did not will be paying on loans for a long time.)

If you’re smart, work hard, get scholarships, and don’t try to live like a high-roller, you’ll be Ok.

Absolutely agree!

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

Seeking one FTE nurse pst.

I know in some places in cali nurses can make almost as much as a fm doc. Such a messed up place over there. What they do to command a doctors salary from handing out meds and giving bed baths beats me

Lol yeah... I'm happy cali exists, but I don't understand why anyone who isn't dirt poor or a millionaire would want live there.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

But sure as heck wouldn’t put a dent in paying for medical school.

Ahhhh!!!!!! STOP! Your measly 80k or 60k or 50k(in North Dakota with no experience) means most med school students would be graduating with ZERO debt. That will pay for medical school 100%. As you pointed out, you'd still have to live cheap.
I'll say this again, the point is this...

Marry a nurse before med school and graduate with almost* no debt.

*midwestern

 

[curr4410]

Ahhhh!!!!!! STOP! Your measly 80k or 60k or 50k(in North Dakota with no experience) means most med school students would be graduating with ZERO debt. That will pay for medical school 100%. As you pointed out, you'd still have to live cheap.
I'll say this again, the point is this...

Marry a nurse before med school and graduate with almost* no debt.

*midwestern

Where exactly are you factoring in living costs? Just sayin’......it seems you’re so focused on only tuition that you forget the cost of having a home, paying bills, paying on student loans your spouse may very well have (that will come due because they are not in school), a car, utilities, etc, etc. having a spouse who is not in school would help with living costs, for sure. But last I checked you wouldn’t qualify for income based housing or any assistance, so you would have a full COL to cover too. So, no. Definitely not near debt free, unless you go to a school with tuition that’s very, very low which is basically state MD schools. Don’t forget the bigger picture.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

Definitely not near debt free

I just disagree. The math works out, living expenses and all.
30-50k a year is the average for med school. Average nurse is pulling at least 65k. Those are the facts, not anecdotes, not always true, just averages.
It's really not that difficult to live on 20-30k. And if I'm making 40k a year as a resident and I graduate with max of 60k in debt that feels good to me especially since the nurse keeps bringing cash in after graduation. literally debt free 1-2 years out of school in the worst case scenario. Maybe not as magical as I think. But I'm trying the experiment so we'll see how close I really get.

 

[Cheeni17]

I just disagree. The math works out, living expenses and all.
30-50k a year is the average for med school. Average nurse is pulling at least 65k. Those are the facts, not anecdotes, not always true, just averages.
It's really not that difficult to live on 20-30k. And if I'm making 40k a year as a resident and I graduate with max of 60k in debt that feels good to me especially since the nurse keeps bringing cash in after graduation. literally debt free 1-2 years out of school in the worst case scenario. Maybe not as magical as I think. But I'm trying the experiment so we'll see how close I really get.

At least go for a babe pa

 

[Chibucks15]

I just disagree. The math works out, living expenses and all.
30-50k a year is the average for med school. Average nurse is pulling at least 65k. Those are the facts, not anecdotes, not always true, just averages.
It's really not that difficult to live on 20-30k. And if I'm making 40k a year as a resident and I graduate with max of 60k in debt that feels good to me especially since the nurse keeps bringing cash in after graduation. literally debt free 1-2 years out of school in the worst case scenario. Maybe not as magical as I think. But I'm trying the experiment so we'll see how close I really get.

Your math is off. Coming from someone in this situation it just isn’t really plausible. It definitely helps with costs but you aren’t going to be able to have her pay everything. Plus, that’s pretty ****ty to do to somebody honestly when they’re spending most of their paycheck on you. Haha your talking like this person is just paying for you and is a literal piggy bank

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

It's off or you don't like it? Maybe we disagree morally. But it's possible and since we're just using anecdotes as someone in entering the situation I can't see any legit problems with this. Why isn't it working for you?