Hundy

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So I recently applied for a license in a 7yr state and I took longer to finish the steps due to dual degree, etc. I am an MD. I noticed however that there are no limits for DOs. How is that fair and not discriminatory to MDs? Why do we have limits but DOs don't? I have a problem w this. If we are saying that DOs are comparable why are there're no metrics for DO holders?
 

gutonc

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Oh FFS, are you seriously...wait never mind. Shame on me.

Trollollolloll.
 
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Hundy

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Oh FFS, are you seriously...wait never mind. Shame on me.

Trollollolloll.
? An MD has to retake USMLe because of a random limit but a DO does not. Again - that is the epitome of double standard.
 
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bashwell

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? An MD has to retake USMLe because of a random limit but a DO does not. Again - that is the epitome of double standard.
Technically, a DO has to take the COMLEX, not the USMLE. However, don't all of the COMLEX exams need to be completed within seven years too? And I once heard DOs are limited to taking the COMLEX six times maximum?

I know DOs often apply to MD residencies so they need to take the USMLE and also that DO and MD residencies are combining, but I'm just speaking in terms of the DO and COMLEX for now.

All that said, I'm not a DO, so what do I know. Maybe a DO who knows can better answer your question?
 
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Hundy

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Technically, a DO has to take the COMLEX, not the USMLE. However, don't all of the COMLEX exams need to be completed within seven years too? And I once heard DOs are limited to taking the COMLEX six times maximum?

I know DOs often apply to MD residencies so they need to take the USMLE and also that DO and MD residencies are combining, but I'm just speaking in terms of the DO and COMLEX for now.

All that said, I'm not a DO, so what do I know. Maybe a DO who knows can better answer your question?
Yes, I know DOs take COMLEX. But when getting a license, their COMLEX has no time limit.

How does that make sense?
 

AdmiralChz

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Yes, I know DOs take COMLEX. But when getting a license, their COMLEX has no time limit.

How does that make sense?
Because I believe DO is an American invention and the chances of them taking longer than 7 years to complete the COMLEX is almost zero as they are unlike to fall into what I describe below. Is it fair? Maybe not, but I am sure a DO with such length between the COMLEX exams would have some serious trouble obtaining a license or credentialing at facilities.

One sees it (very uncommonly) in foreign MD (especially those outside of the Caribbean and western Europe) grads who took one or two of the steps early in their training and then went and did something else (e.g. didn't match in the US for several years so stayed and worked in their home country) before finishing the sequence. The USMLEs are meant to evaluate current medical knowledge to prove you have a handle on basic science and clinical medicine, and the idea is that some of this baseline knowledge (especially in the clinical realm with regards to guidelines for treatment) could undergo massive change over seven years. Moreover, if someone hasn't been working clinically for a long time but doing research or something unrelated to the medical field (more common in foreign grads hoping for a US residency) a lot of the baseline knowledge could be lost - unfortunately, USMLEs is the only way we (meaning the states given out licenses) really have to evaluate this knowledge and skill base. Some states allow for longer but require a recent completion of a full US-based residency program to get a full license (and some, like Texas, require this for all graduates of schools that aren't on their approved list, found here for TX: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/idl/A9AFA127-082F-6C6D-1421-B5BEDB9C3E02

Personally, I took the USMLE Step 1 in 2011 (and then Step 2 and 3 2012/2013 as typical for US graduates). I would feel suspicious about a provider just now getting around to finishing the steps and their clinical/basic knowledge base, especially if they haven't completed a residency.
 
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Shinken

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The reason why DOs have no limits is because we don't need them, we're awesome and medical boards know it. :D

(actually, the number of retakes and the timeframe for completing all three steps prior to licensure are determined by the medical board of each particular state. Some states do impose limits on COMLEX retakes).
 
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Hundy

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The reason why DOs have no limits is because we don't need them, we're awesome and medical boards know it. :D

(actually, the number of retakes and the timeframe for completing all three steps prior to licensure are determined by the medical board of each particular state. Some states do impose limits on COMLEX retakes).
Yes, a minimal amount of states have limits for DOs, but most don't. why are there limits for MDs? the USMLE is already significantly more challenging than the COMLEX as it is. And if we are saying MDs and DOs are equivalent degrees, why aren't there equivalent rules?
 

AdmiralChz

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Yes, a minimal amount of states have limits for DOs, but most don't. why are there limits for MDs? the USMLE is already significantly more challenging than the COMLEX as it is. And if we are saying MDs and DOs are equivalent degrees, why aren't there equivalent rules?
See my post above?
 
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Hundy

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See my post above?
Your post does not really address the fact that the DO is like you say, an American invention but it's for individuals who were unable to get into US MD schools. So if we are saying, hey these are equivalent degrees, then there should be equivalent requirements. And I'm not sure what the whole thing about residency completion is. Some of us have research, dual degrees, etc. so it takes longer.
 

ThoracicGuy

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Your post does not really address the fact that the DO is like you say, an American invention but it's for individuals who were unable to get into US MD schools. So if we are saying, hey these are equivalent degrees, then there should be equivalent requirements. And I'm not sure what the whole thing about residency completion is. Some of us have research, dual degrees, etc. so it takes longer.
Why does this bother you so much?

You have 7 years basically from the time you pass Step 1 until you finish Step 3. Even if you take time off for research or do a dual MD/PhD, that gives you plenty of time.
 
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Hundy

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Why does this bother you so much?

You have 7 years basically from the time you pass Step 1 until you finish Step 3. Even if you take time off for research or do a dual MD/PhD, that gives you plenty of time.
It bothers me because it's a double standard, and no, I went passed the 7 year mark with dual degree, research, residency switch, illness stuff, etc. If I had not been able to get into an MD school and instead have gotten into a DO program it would be a non-issue. See the problem? It's a double standard.
 

Shinken

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...but it's for individuals who were unable to get into US MD schools.
No, not really. AT Still did not come up with osteopathic medicine as an alternative to those unable to get into "US MD" schools. You must be thinking of Caribbean schools.

It bothers me because it's a double standard.
It's not a double standard, it's two separate professions.

If you're having trouble getting a license due to the amount of time it took you to complete all USMLE steps, you should not take out your frustrations on DOs. You should consider applying for a license in a state that does not impose time limits on USMLE completion. Check the Federation of State Medical Boards website.

By your posts, I'm starting to agree with gutonc. Good luck and best wishes.
 

ThoracicGuy

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It bothers me because it's a double standard, and no, I went passed the 7 year mark with dual degree, research, residency switch, illness stuff, etc. If I had not been able to get into an MD school and instead have gotten into a DO program it would be a non-issue. See the problem? It's a double standard.
A dual degree and research wouldn't make you go past 7 years. Residency switching isn't a reason not to take Step 3.

I really don't see the problem. Often times if you take longer than the 7 years you can get an exemption from the rule to get a license if there is a good reason for it. It's very rare to need, though, for most US MD students/grads.
 
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