Confused About GPA

[BellaEXE]

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I plan on attending the University of Oklahoma and they state anything above a 90% is considered a 4.0. After completion of each semester transcripts only say "A 4.0". Do medical schools calculate GPA differently?

For example, if I score a 90% would a medical school consider this a 3.7 GPA or 4.0 GPA? How would they check GPA if transcripts simply say "A 4.0"?

I apologize for how confusing this question may be and can elaborate further if needed.

 

[deleted1001426]

Med schools don’t see your percentage. If your transcript has an A on it then it’s a 4.0 in their eyes. Doesn’t matter if your school has a 95% cut off or a 70

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Unless your transcript says 90%, it only says 'A' then that's a 4.0 in the eyes of AMCAS who reports to med schools.

Take this and run.

 

[BellaEXE]

Med schools don’t see your percentage. If your transcript has an A on it then it’s a 4.0 in their eyes. Doesn’t matter if your school has a 95% cut off or a 70

Unless your transcript says 90%, it only says 'A' then that's a 4.0 in the eyes of AMCAS who reports to med schools.

Take this and run.

Well damn.. this should be a breeze then. Thank you!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Well damn.. this should be a breeze then. Thank you!

I heard some schools don't like 4.0 candidates, so watch out 🙂

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

A 4.0 GPA isn't going to penalize you LOL, this is why I have a love-hate relationship with SDN. Strive for the best you can do in your classes, OP, and just remember that perfectionism is not the goal nor the expectation.

This was most likely sarcastic

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

A 4.0 candidate who has little else other than a great GPA does raise a flag. A 4.0 Candidate who has appropriate volunteering, community service, leadership, research and a good MCAT is very strong candidate

In other thread it was said some schools don't like perfectionists so they prefer 3.98 over 4.0

 

[LizzyM]

In other thread it was said some schools don't like perfectionists so they prefer 3.98 over 4.0

You misunderstand. It is not that they "don't like" perfectionists, only that it raises a concern that must be allayed before a person who may be a perfectionist is admitted whereas someone who comes in with one grade less than A has obviously gotten over the "4.0 or bust" mentality that causes students to grade grub, drop courses, get sick over a less than perfect performance, etc.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

You misunderstand. It is not that they "don't like" perfectionists, only that it raises a concern that must be allayed before a person who may be a perfectionist is admitted whereas someone who comes in with one grade less than A has obviously gotten over the "4.0 or bust" mentality that causes students to grade grub, drop courses, get sick over a less than perfect performance, etc.

Got it. How will you determine if the applicant has perfectionist mentality or not? Check their ECs or essays or interviews?

 

[Sleepingdoc]

You misunderstand. It is not that they "don't like" perfectionists, only that it raises a concern that must be allayed before a person who may be a perfectionist is admitted whereas someone who comes in with one grade less than A has obviously gotten over the "4.0 or bust" mentality that causes students to grade grub, drop courses, get sick over a less than perfect performance, etc.

I have seen students have mental breakdown when they got their first B/C in their first class in med school. A 4.0 in a university does not mean they will breeze through med school.

 

[deleted1001426]

Got it. How will you determine if the applicant has perfectionist mentality or not? Check their ECs or essays or interviews?

from what I've seen while TAing/tutoring, it is fairly obvious from the moment that they open their mouth and I'd assume that personality trait also spills over into their essays as well

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

from what I've seen while TAing/tutoring, it is fairly obvious from the moment that they open their mouth and I'd assume that personality trait also spills over into their essays as well

I am asking how adcoms determine during initial screening. I know it's easy to see it as a faculty or TA or tutor.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I have seen students have mental breakdown when they got their first B/C in their first class in med school. A 4.0 in a university does not mean they will breeze through med school.

absolutely correct. A 4.0 in HS doesn't meant 4.0 in UG and same goes with any graduate school.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

I am asking how adcoms determine during initial screening. I know it's easy to see it as a faculty or TA or tutor.

Its easy to determine from their essays... if they make it past initial round, its easy to determine after interviewing with them.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Its easy to determine from their essays... if they make it past initial round, its easy to determine after interviewing with them.

Essay part, I am not sure since lot of students take professional help but I agree can be easily determine during interviews. I thought some schools don't want to even interview 4.0s, may be I misunderstood again.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

absolutely correct. A 4.0 in HS doesn't meant 4.0 in UG and same goes with any graduate school.

Med school is a whole different level from either of those.. The stress level will be unlike any others. To answer your question,It is really obvious after seeing them react after a first question though.

 

[deleted1001426]

I thought some schools don't want to even interview 4.0s, may be I misunderstood again.

you definitely misunderstood..a student won't be denied an interview solely because they have a 4.0. Rather, they wouldn't be interviewed due to coming off as a perfectionist whose entire identity is wrapped around obtaining As in their essays etc

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

you definitely misunderstood..a student won't be denied an interview solely because they have a 4.0. Rather, they wouldn't be interviewed due to coming off as a perfectionist whose entire identity is wrapped around obtaining As in their essays etc

I wouldn't call someone for interview either if I see mention of grades or how they achieved 100% or 105% in a test in their essays 🙂

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Med school is a whole different level from either of those.. The stress level will be unlike any others. To answer your question,It is really obvious after seeing them react after a first question though.

I am aware of stress in medical school/residency/fellowship, experienced it as a spouse (last 2 parts) and survived 🙂 I hear law school is also very stressful.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Oy vey! Schools are quite fine with 4.0 students. It is when they are robotic students who have nothing but GPA. The “superstars” with 4,0, 2000 hours of research, and 300 hours of shadowing with academic sub specialties, their biggest volunteering was being premed club VP, and submit entitled and arrogant applications, These are the “geeks” who show no sign of social skills, interpersonal relationships or the personal characteristics for doctors

Great! I was worried for a minute (but mine is not 4.0 anyway, but does have 2K research hours and shadowed lot of specialists) 🙂

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Great! I was worried for a minute (but mine is not 4.0 anyway, but does have 2K research hours and shadowed lot of specialists) 🙂

Get volunteering and some leadership and you are on your way.

 

[Goro]

Essay part, I am not sure since lot of students take professional help but I agree can be easily determine during interviews. I thought some schools don't want to even interview 4.0s, may be I misunderstood again.

A) you thought wrong
B) these are the people who write in their adversity or "dealt with a setback" essays about how they got their very first C (or B) on an exam.

 

[HopeP]

Oy vey! Schools are quite fine with 4.0 students. It is when they are robotic students who have nothing but GPA. The “superstars” with 4,0, 2000 hours of research, and 300 hours of shadowing with academic sub specialties, their biggest volunteering was being premed club VP, and submit entitled and arrogant applications, These are the “geeks” who show no sign of social skills, interpersonal relationships or the personal characteristics for doctors

Sounds like a 4.0 syndrome. What makes 4.0 students more prone to soft skills failure than non-4.0? or virtually there is no statistical data to back that claim and almost every GPA spectrum are more or less equally susceptible.

 

[HopeP]

A) you thought wrong
B) these are the people who write in their adversity or "dealt with a setback" essays about how they got their very first C (or B) on an exam.

I am confused on B part. Are you saying if you are a superstar and you lost your virg..don't talk about who/why/when was culprit for that lost vir.. in essays?

 

[KnightDoc]

Sounds like a 4.0 syndrome. What makes 4.0 students more prone to soft skills failure than non-4.0? or virtually there is no statistical data to back that claim and almost every GPA spectrum are more or less equally susceptible.

Yeah -- he's only been doing this for a bazillion years. He has no idea what he's talking about. 🙂

 

[KnightDoc]

I am confused on B part. Are you saying if you are a superstar and you lost your virg..don't talk about who/why/when was culprit for that lost vir.. in essays?

No -- it's a great idea for your kid to write about the travesty his/her first crappy grade was, and how severe the punishment you meted out was. Go for it! 🙂

What do you have to be confused about? Do you anticipate writing any essays?

 

[Goro]

I am confused on B part. Are you saying if you are a superstar and you lost your virg..don't talk about who/why/when was culprit for that lost vir.. in essays?

People who think that getting a substandard grade is the only adversity they've had to deal with telegraph that their life revolves around academics (and are extremely sheltered on top of that). We don't want these people as students.

 

[HopeP]

People who think that getting a substandard grade is the only adversity they've had to deal with telegraph that their life revolves around academics (and are extremely sheltered on top of that). We don't want these people as students.

That makes sense, in other words its a frog in a pit and frog thinks that pit is the ocean.

 

[HopeP]

No -- it's a great idea for your kid to write about the travesty his/her first crappy grade was, and how severe the punishment you meted out was. Go for it! 🙂

What do you have to be confused about? Do you anticipate writing any essays?

Did you just branch out to salt water?🙁

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

A) you thought wrong
Was expecting this an thank god you didn't prescribe 2 pills to me 🙂
B) these are the people who write in their adversity or "dealt with a setback" essays about how they got their very first C (or B) on an exam.
Must be not reading SDN and have poor pre-health advising

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Get volunteering and some leadership and you are on your way.

Thanks. He has both and that's where SDN (especially @Goro advice ) is followed fully, clinical, non-clinical, less fortunate etc...

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I looked into GPA issue further and as per my son's school ( a T20 school) only 67% who got 3.8 or higher GPA got admission nationally but they have over 95% success. so what could be different?

 

[deleted1001426]

I looked into GPA issue further and as per my son's school ( a T20 school) only 67% who got 3.8 or higher GPA got admission nationally but they have over 95% success. so what could be different?

well it’s a t20.. the quality of a student who obtained a 3.8 at Cornell is known as it’s a reputable school with a track record of producing decent quality students whereas a 3.8 at podunk college of liberal arts is an unknown. So yeah, you’d expect that with all other factors accounted for,if there are 2 identical candidates one at a t20 and another at a lesser known school , the one from the t20 is more likely to be admitted

 

[KnightDoc]

well it’s a t20.. the quality of a student who obtained a 3.8 at Cornell is known as it’s a reputable school with a track record of producing decent quality students whereas a 3.8 at podunk college of liberal arts is an unknown. So yeah, you’d expect that with all other factors accounted for,if there are 2 identical candidates one at a t20 and another at a lesser known school , the one from the t20 is more likely to be admitted

And yet, even there, 5% of applicants with 3.8+ are unsuccessful, and I'm sure the 95% includes DO (and, if it's like most schools, even Caribbean). Nothing is guaranteed, even as parents try to curate to perfect applicant. 🙂

All kidding aside, I think the biggest difference is not that T20 UGs have a significant preference, but rather, in my experience, all schools, including T20s, manipulate their reported numbers by discouraging non-competitive applicants from applying. (I found this all over the place, from T5s to low ranked state schools when I looked into it when I was applying UG.)

National numbers include the schools that don't do this, as well as non-traditional applicants that don't have anyone discouraging them from applying, and therefore, no manipulation of reported numbers. Also, the 67% is just MD, while, as I said, the 95% probably includes everything.

 

[deleted1001426]

And yet, even there, 5% of applicants with 3.8+ are unsuccessful, and I'm sure the 95% includes DO (and, if it's like most schools, even Caribbean). Nothing is guaranteed, even as parents try to curate to perfect applicant. 🙂

Honestly, as overbearing as some of their posts might make them seem, you can tell it’s coming from a caring place with good intentions at heart. I Iow key wish my parents took as much interest in my future career as @srk2021 . It must be nice to have someone who is so invested/interested in your success. Like mine are great and all but to quote them at the beginning of the cycle “why are you worried? You got into a lot of undergrads.. isn’t this similar?”

 

[KnightDoc]

Honestly, as overbearing/tiger-mom-esque as some of their posts might make them seem, you can tell it’s coming from a caring place with good intentions at heart. I Iow key wish my parents took as much interest in my future career as @srk2021 . It must be nice to have someone who is so invested/interested in your success. Like mine are great and all but to quote them at the beginning of the cycle “why are you worried? You got into a lot of undergrads.. isn’t this similar?”

I know. It's just that, like some others here, I find it odd that a parent feels the need, not merely to lurk, but to actively engage in a forum meant for applicants, students and admins. My parents love me, but I wouldn't appreciate them going on dates with me to make sure nothing bad happens, even though their concern would certainly be coming from a good place. I am pretty sure that my date also wouldn't appreciate it (although I honestly don't know! 🙂).

Lurking and reporting back to the child is inoffensive, and I'm sure widely practiced. Actively engaging here lacks self awareness and is somewhat intrusive. Even better is that his kid isn't even here while he imposes himself on the rest of us! Maybe my dates would enjoy a nice night out with my parents while I stay home studying for the MCAT! 🙂

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

And yet, even there, 5% of applicants with 3.8+ are unsuccessful, and I'm sure the 95% includes DO (and, if it's like most schools, even Caribbean). Nothing is guaranteed, even as parents try to curate to perfect applicant. 🙂

All kidding aside, I think the biggest difference is not that T20 UGs have a significant preference, but rather, in my experience, all schools, including T20s, manipulate their reported numbers by discouraging non-competitive applicants from applying. (I found this all over the place, from T5s to low ranked state schools when I looked into it when I was applying UG.)

National numbers include the schools that don't do this, as well as non-traditional applicants that don't have anyone discouraging them from applying, and therefore, no manipulation of reported numbers. Also, the 67% is just MD, while, as I said, the 95% probably includes everything.

Its more than 95%, giving exact percentage may reveal school name so I rounded down. I also believe it includes DO.

 

[KnightDoc]

Its more than 95%, giving exact percentage may reveal school name so I rounded down. I also believe it includes DO.

By the way, given your post history on CC, I'm pretty sure a lot of folks already know the school, but I won't reveal. (I didn't realize it was a secret.)

Seriously though, when I was looking at UGs, I got really frustrated when I saw how all of the premed offices sliced and diced their data, and it really turned me off and made me realize they were all full of crap and manipulating numbers to make themselves look good, and to sell you on the notion that the school itself conferred some advantage. It doesn't.

The simple fact is, T20 schools have overall better student bodies and better results than average as a result, but those same students would do equally well wherever they go. Harvard is great because of its students; not because of its TAs, or because of something in the water in Cambridge!!

 

[deleted1001426]

Its more than 95%, giving exact percentage may reveal school name so I rounded down. I also believe it includes DO.

lol either way I’d take those odds. I think at my run of the mill state school it was 96% of people who receive the committees full endorsement are then admitted to a us md/do. Granted only like 30-40% who apply for a letter are given the full version (some receive only DO) so I think our number is inflated due to them refusing to endorse anyone who they aren’t near 100% sure will get in.
Just anecdotally, I’d say that in my 4 years there ~60% of people who applied ended up getting in so the national average sounds about right

 

[KnightDoc]

lol either way I’d take those odds. I think at my run of the mill state school it was 96% of people who receive the committees full endorsement are then admitted to a us md/do. Granted only like 30-40% who apply for a letter are given the full version (some receive only DO) so I think our number is inflated due to them refusing to endorse anyone who they aren’t near 100% sure will get in

Bingo!!! The number they report to attract applicants is 96%, but the real number is 96% of 40%. In my experience, all schools do this!!! Just don't tell @srk2021 that your state school has a higher percentage of successful applicants than his kid's T20!! 🙂

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Bingo!!! The number they report to attract applicants is 96%, but the real number is 96% of 40%. In my experience, all schools do this!!! Just don't tell @srk2021 that your state school has a higher percentage of successful applicants than his kid's T20!! 🙂

96% is wrong answer my friend 🙂. I am aware of how some schools manipulate these numbers. The school I refer also have breakdowns for different gpa ranges and they report big difference between 3.7 and 3.8. I doubt my state's (CA) schoos have better success rate.

 

[KnightDoc]

96% is wrong answer my friend 🙂. I am aware of how some schools manipulate these numbers. The school I refer also have breakdowns for different gpa ranges and they report big difference between 3.7 and 3.8. I doubt my state's (CA) schoos have better success rate.

Yes, I was teasing!!! I'm saying the reported 96% is BS. It's really 96% of the 40% they allow to apply, which closely tracks the national 40% success rate.

The reported national number, in the low 40% range, is the real deal. Yet if you listen to all of the premed advising departments at all the UGs, you'd believe the national number is 60-80%.

My estimation, based on what I saw during my travels a few years ago, is that state flagships closely track the national average (low 40%), lower ranked schools have even worse numbers while top schools are higher. Even the Ivies are in the 70% range, not the 90%+ they advertise. Of course, within a school, this varies as you go up and down the GPA/MCAT grid, just like the national numbers.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

By the way, given your post history on CC, I'm pretty sure a lot of folks already know the school, but I won't reveal. (I didn't realize it was a secret.)

Seriously though, when I was looking at UGs, I got really frustrated when I saw how all of the premed offices sliced and diced their data, and it really turned me off and made me realize they were all full of crap and manipulating numbers to make themselves look good, and to sell you on the notion that the school itself conferred some advantage. It doesn't.

The simple fact is, T20 schools have overall better student bodies and better results than average as a result, but those same students would do equally well wherever they go. Harvard is great because of its students; not because of its TAs, or because of something in the water in Cambridge!!

Dang. I was trying to hide his school name from you only 🙂
You probably also read that I am not hung up on school prestige ( otherwise I would have send him to 1 of 2 T10s he got into ) and I ask parents to let kids decide on which achool to attend and don't push kids into BSMD.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I know. It's just that, like some others here, I find it odd that a parent feels the need, not merely to lurk, but to actively engage in a forum meant for applicants, students and admins. My parents love me, but I wouldn't appreciate them going on dates with me to make sure nothing bad happens, even though their concern would certainly be coming from a good place. I am pretty sure that my date also wouldn't appreciate it (although I honestly don't know! 🙂).

Lurking and reporting back to the child is inoffensive, and I'm sure widely practiced. Actively engaging here lacks self awareness and is somewhat intrusive. Even better is that his kid isn't even here while he imposes himself on the rest of us! Maybe my dates would enjoy a nice night out with my parents while I stay home studying for the MCAT! 🙂

Seems like you are the only one hung up on parent participation. We had same discussion few months back I said as long as SDN allows I will participate. No one is imposing on anyone. One of the mods advised me privately that I can ignore posts like yours but I would rather address your concerns. I wonder why you are spending so much time worrying about me instead of your dates 🙂 As I said before I wish you all the success.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Yes, I was teasing!!! I'm saying the reported 96% is BS. It's really 96% of the 40% they allow to apply, which closely tracks the national 40% success rate.

The reported national number, in the low 40% range, is the real deal. Yet if you listen to all of the premed advising departments at all the UGs, you'd believe the national number is 60-80%.

My estimation, based on what I saw during my travels a few years ago, is that state flagships closely track the national average (low 40%), lower ranked schools have even worse numbers while top schools are higher. Even the Ivies are in the 70% range, not the 90%+ they advertise. Of course, within a school, this varies as you go up and down the GPA/MCAT grid, just like the national numbers.

As I said on CC and here, the whole admission process for UG or Medical schools is out of control but instead of worrying about the things that are not in our control, I help navigate the process. My other option is hire a high priced consultant but I chose not to.

 

[Goro]

I looked into GPA issue further and as per my son's school ( a T20 school) only 67% who got 3.8 or higher GPA got admission nationally but they have over 95% success. so what could be different?

I don't understand what you're asking

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I don't understand what you're asking

Why big variation between national average and the particular T20 school average?

 

[Goro]

Why big variation between national average and the particular T20 school average?

Pretty obvious. The T20s get their pick of the litter. Everybody wants to go to Harvard, Yale and UCLA.

 

[DNAJB6]

You misunderstand. It is not that they "don't like" perfectionists, only that it raises a concern that must be allayed before a person who may be a perfectionist is admitted whereas someone who comes in with one grade less than A has obviously gotten over the "4.0 or bust" mentality that causes students to grade grub, drop courses, get sick over a less than perfect performance, etc.

Or at least that is the hope.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Lets correct this.
Overall, Thirty-Five percent (yes 35%, that is NOT a typo) of those with 3.8+ do NOT get an acceptance.
Of those with 3.8+ and MCAT of 517+, Twelve percent (12%) do NOT get an acceptance
https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-11/2019_FACTS_Table_A-23.pdf

Out of 12%, any analysis on why they didn't get a single acceptance? prevailing wisdom seems to be most these are perfectionists/geeks who either lack ECs or talk about grades in essays.