Confused about where I went wrong and what to do next year

[sparos]

.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[aprimenumber]

Did you apply early? That can often help a lot.

But realistically, it looks like you're a borderline MD applicant stat-wise. Next time you apply, I would focus on DO schools, where your stats are definitely fine.

 

[DrBowtie]

Yep. Borderline numbers applying to schools that get a ton of apps.

Move to a state with more forgiving state schools than UW?

 

[moop]

Average cookie cutter at large volume schools
No significant improvement since first cycle
Below average stats for MD

Go DO next cycle. You've blown it for MD with 2 cycles. Unless you can bring that cGPA up (????) or have some other legitimately significant EC update before next cycle, DO is the only option. Use post-bacc for grade repair.

 

[sparos]

.

 

[moop]

Are 2 unsuccessful cycles seen as "blowing it" to a lot of schools, even if I don't apply to the same ones? Thank you for the advice.

If you do not demonstrate some sort of amazing turnaround or substantial improvement in your application, yes. All schools will be able to see the status of your previous cycles, and adcoms on this page have repeatedly said it is definitely taken into account.

If you stats and ECs stay the same, don't waste time with MD again. DO believes in recreation; most MD schools do not.

 

[sparos]

.

 

[DocOpotamus]

Hello SDN,

This has been a confusing application year for me. First, some specifics:

3.6 cGPA, 3.45 sGPA, two years spent at community college (advanced program in high school), two at state university
30 MCAT (11/9/10), up from a first score of 26
2 years full time employed in neuro research
1 summer microbio research
6 months in Peru, shadowing and volunteering with at risk kids
Nursing home experience
Shadowed over 6 different specialties, significant time spent on each
Current ER volunteer
Current free clinic volunteer
5 letters of rec + committee letter, reviewed for negative letters by advisor

Applied to MD schools, received 1 interview at state school, then rejected
UWashington (state)
Loyola
Rush
Temple
UCentral Florida
Jefferson
Drexel
MCWisconsin
Ros Franklin
NYMC
Tufts
Wake Forest
VCU

This is my second application cycle, after an unsuccessful first (I wasn't smart about that application, and unsurprised that it didn't go well).
However at this point I am really confused as to what it was that schools didn't like. Some people have said that maybe it is the fact that things are rather average and don't stand out enough. But how do I go about fixing this? I am considering a few things such as post-bac programs, AmeriCorps, and scribing next year. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thank you -

Wow people are highly critical here. I'm curious about your personal statement but would say you might want to apply to more schools. I applied to 38 and got 18 interviews. now imagine if I only applied to the 20 that rejected me : ) hang in there, you are not a cookie cutter applicant you just might need to dig deeper when reflecting on your experiences. I took the MCAT 3x, went to community college and 2 state schools, but ended up at a UC after reapplying. It can happen for you if you want it bad enough to stick with it.

 

[NYCdude]

Uh, I'd get an adcom's opinion before I just assume that you've "blown it" for M.D. schools.

The guy/gal is obviously improving his/her resume with the additional volunteering and such.

You've got really impressive E.C.'s so I think you'd get an additional bump over the rest of the people with average stats.

I would say your main problems are:

- Not applying broadly enough. 13 schools won't do it. I'd say with your stats, you should apply to ~24+
- Maybe your P.S. sucks? I would try to improve that somehow.
- Applying at the end of June isn't early enough. You need to apply on the first day, period.

Also throw in some D.O.'s the next go around.

 

[sparos]

.

 

[NYCdude]

It seems that the personal statement could be poor, I'll have it reviewed by as many people as I can and see if that was the case. Either way, thank you for the positive thoughts !



Yes, I think you're right on this one. 13 schools may not have been enough - and I plan on getting that thing in on June 1st this year. I definitely plan on adding D.O. schools, as a third time applicant I am rearing to start a medical education. Thank you for the help

I applaud your resilience. I think you'd be a solid addition to any med school.

 

[mimelim]

Hello SDN,

This has been a confusing application year for me. First, some specifics:

3.6 cGPA, 3.45 sGPA, two years spent at community college (advanced program in high school), two at state university
30 MCAT (11/9/10), up from a first score of 26
2 years full time employed in neuro research
1 summer microbio research
6 months in Peru, shadowing and volunteering with at risk kids
Nursing home experience
Shadowed over 6 different specialties, significant time spent on each
Current ER volunteer
Current free clinic volunteer
5 letters of rec + committee letter, reviewed for negative letters by advisor

Applied to MD schools, received 1 interview at state school, then rejected
UWashington (state)
Loyola
Rush
Temple
UCentral Florida
Jefferson
Drexel
MCWisconsin
Ros Franklin
NYMC
Tufts
Wake Forest
VCU

This is my second application cycle, after an unsuccessful first (I wasn't smart about that application, and unsurprised that it didn't go well).
However at this point I am really confused as to what it was that schools didn't like. Some people have said that maybe it is the fact that things are rather average and don't stand out enough. But how do I go about fixing this? I am considering a few things such as post-bac programs, AmeriCorps, and scribing next year. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thank you -

This is how I read your application:
3.45/3.6/28 (Average 26/30)
Research: 2 years + Summer
Volunteering: 6 months in Peru, nursing home experience, ER, free clinic
Shadowing: Good
Below average personal statement
Below average LOR
ORM

A few things that could be clarified first: You spent 2.25 years in research, what did you produce? Who wrote your LOR? And I assumed ORM?

#1 Academics: You are below average for US MD schools. There are concerns that you would be more at risk to not be able to handle the rigors of medical school. Not enough to stop you from being invited, but enough to make some schools hesitant. There is no point in admitting someone who has a reasonable chance of struggling if they don't bring something different to the table.
#2 Because of your academic history, you are competing with a much MUCH larger group of students than the average applicant when you are considering ECs. Nothing really pops off the page when I look at your application. You certainly don't need amazing ECs to get into medical school, but if you have below average scores, you need to have readers, "want you". Being slightly above average in terms of time commitments to things isn't enough, what have you produced? What makes you better than those thousands of others with equal or better stats than you?
#3 This goes along with #2, who are writing letters? What can they attest to? Average/above average applicants don't need strong letters to help them get into schools. They can have non-negative and have the rest of the application pull them through. Extremely few letters are truly negative. The bigger issue for you is that they are weak letters.

You can be plenty boring and get into medical school. But, you have to be extremely low risk (ie you have to have pretty good academics and be a reasonable check boxer). But, schools want to have a well rounded class, not well rounded individuals. If you don't stand out, your application gets chucked. Give the person who reads your application a reason to go to bat for you. If you can't do that, then just stop now and stop wasting our and what is infinitely worse, YOUR time. Every year that you spend before medical school is time to shine. We know that and a lot of us take that into consideration. I'm going to say this bluntly because I don't think most others will. The students that get into medical school with below average stats, tend NOT to be the ones that ask, "What do adcoms want? How can I make them want me?" They are doing other stuff that has generally caused them to be lower stats that make them worth the risk for medical schools to take on.

Apply DO next cycle and widen your school lists if you are going to include US MD schools.
Apply day 1.
Consider where your LOR are coming from and if they are helping you or if they simply aren't hurting you.
Figure out some sort of theme for your LOR, PS etc. that match your ECs and make sure that everything is consistent.
Get your PS in good order.

 

[moop]

Wow people are highly critical here. I'm curious about your personal statement but would say you might want to apply to more schools. I applied to 38 and got 18 interviews. now imagine if I only applied to the 20 that rejected me : ) hang in there, you are not a cookie cutter applicant you just might need to dig deeper when reflecting on your experiences. I took the MCAT 3x, went to community college and 2 state schools, but ended up at a UC after reapplying. It can happen for you if you want it bad enough to stick with it.

"You are not a cookie cutter applicant"

Pls point out the parts of OP's app that are not aggressively cookie cutter. Let's not instill false hope and empty praise. OP is average (some would say below average) and has a looooooooooooong road ahead if he wants a turnaround.

Edit: @mimelim hit it jackpot. The stats are below average, and everything else just average.

 

[peanutsss]

.....

 

[MDporfavor8888]

i personally think your ECs look great and i agree with most of the posters above me in saying that your stats are average at best.

your GPA is average and i don't think it helps that you have 2 years worth of community college. were any of your prereqs done at a CC?
your MCAT is also average or slightly below since I think 31 is now the average for matriculants.

If you're really set on applying to MD schools again, my suggestion is to take a year off to:
1. get a 4.0 or a very high GPA at a SMP program in 2015-2016
2. retake the MCAT to get a better score
3. while youre applying for the 2017 cycle, get more clinical experience... like being a scribe for example as you mentioned
4. apply to 20+ schools

I know it sucks to reapply as i've gone through it as well but hang in there and if it really is your dream, it'll all be worth it in the end. don't give up and good luck!

p.s. you should try calling the schools that you applied to this year to ask for feedback also.

 

[sparos]

.

 

[NoahIndonesia]

This is how I read your application:
3.45/3.6/28 (Average 26/30)
Research: 2 years + Summer
Volunteering: 6 months in Peru, nursing home experience, ER, free clinic
Shadowing: Good
Below average personal statement
Below average LOR
ORM

A few things that could be clarified first: You spent 2.25 years in research, what did you produce? Who wrote your LOR? And I assumed ORM?

#1 Academics: You are below average for US MD schools. There are concerns that you would be more at risk to not be able to handle the rigors of medical school. Not enough to stop you from being invited, but enough to make some schools hesitant. There is no point in admitting someone who has a reasonable chance of struggling if they don't bring something different to the table.
#2 Because of your academic history, you are competing with a much MUCH larger group of students than the average applicant when you are considering ECs. Nothing really pops off the page when I look at your application. You certainly don't need amazing ECs to get into medical school, but if you have below average scores, you need to have readers, "want you". Being slightly above average in terms of time commitments to things isn't enough, what have you produced? What makes you better than those thousands of others with equal or better stats than you?
#3 This goes along with #2, who are writing letters? What can they attest to? Average/above average applicants don't need strong letters to help them get into schools. They can have non-negative and have the rest of the application pull them through. Extremely few letters are truly negative. The bigger issue for you is that they are weak letters.

You can be plenty boring and get into medical school. But, you have to be extremely low risk (ie you have to have pretty good academics and be a reasonable check boxer). But, schools want to have a well rounded class, not well rounded individuals. If you don't stand out, your application gets chucked. Give the person who reads your application a reason to go to bat for you. If you can't do that, then just stop now and stop wasting our and what is infinitely worse, YOUR time. Every year that you spend before medical school is time to shine. We know that and a lot of us take that into consideration. I'm going to say this bluntly because I don't think most others will. The students that get into medical school with below average stats, tend NOT to be the ones that ask, "What do adcoms want? How can I make them want me?" They are doing other stuff that has generally caused them to be lower stats that make them worth the risk for medical schools to take on.

Apply DO next cycle and widen your school lists if you are going to include US MD schools.
Apply day 1.
Consider where your LOR are coming from and if they are helping you or if they simply aren't hurting you.
Figure out some sort of theme for your LOR, PS etc. that match your ECs and make sure that everything is consistent.
Get your PS in good order.

Most Medical Schools do not average. Only apply to those that take highest MCAT score or most recent in your case.

 

[gyngyn]

Most Medical Schools do not average. Only apply to those that take highest MCAT score or most recent in your case.

A school that accepts you is going to report the highest possible score in the aggregate. This is sometimes translated as taking the highest or most recent score (especially when applicants inquire).
This does not mean that the highest score is used to screen the application, though. Or that only the high score is considered in the evaluation process.

 

[NoahIndonesia]

A school that accepts you is going to report the highest possible score in the aggregate. This is sometimes translated as taking the highest or most recent score (especially when applicants inquire).
This does not mean that the highest score is used to screen the application, though. Or that only the high score is considered in the evaluation process.

Yeah that's true, but believe me, I've spent the last month compiling a list of schools and calling up their admissions office. Which I advise OP to do as well, because 2 schools on my list who advertise on their FAQ that they take the highest score, did tell me that that is only for reporting and that for admissions they average. I surveyed 50 schools I'm interested in. 10 of them told me that it's up to individual adcom members, and that most average. The other 38 schools told me that their adcom members are told to only take the highest or most recent scores into consideration, 2 of which told me they superscore.

So yeah, I'd say that the majority of schools do not average, but some definitely do.

OP if it would be of service to you, I can post the list I compiled.

 

[gyngyn]

OP if it would be of service to you, I can post the list I compiled.

Let's see it!

 

[NoahIndonesia]

Let's see it!

Ok I will post it first thing tomorrow morning!! It's saved on my school computer. And yes, during my planning period, I do call up medical schools and ask them about their admissions policies. Sshhh don't tell my principal

 

[mimelim]

Most Medical Schools do not average. Only apply to those that take highest MCAT score or most recent in your case.

This does not change anything about my post.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

There has been some good input already but here's my advice
- You didn't apply to enough schools
- You didn't apply DO
- There must be some kind of weakness in your app you're not seeing. Whether be the amcas descriptions of your activities, your personal statement, or a bad rec letter, it seems like it could be there. You numbers are average but still not completely out of the game. I would also strongly consider SMP programs that have high rate of med school placement like Toledo's. Also, consider that during your second cycle you may not have targeted the original weaknesses in your application. Schools like to see effort towards improvements in one's app between cycles. What did you change in this cycle compared to last time?

 

[NoahIndonesia]

This does not change anything about my post.

Well I understand. But when you're a Resident posting on this thread, the OP can think that the way your read his profile might be the universal way of reading it. You'd written something in there about averaging.

I just wanted to point out his application can be read quite differently based on the MCAT policy from school to school.

 

[moop]

Well I understand. But when you're a Resident posting on this thread, the OP can think that the way your read his profile might be the universal way of reading it. You'd written something in there about averaging.

I just wanted to point out his application can be read quite differently based on the MCAT policy from school to school.

If OP is SDN noob enough to think that, @mimelim isn't the problem. OP is.

 

[mimelim]

Well I understand. But when you're a Resident posting on this thread, the OP can think that the way your read his profile might be the universal way of reading it. You'd written something in there about averaging.

I just wanted to point out his application can be read quite differently based on the MCAT policy from school to school.

A 28 vs 30 makes little if any difference on how this application will be read school to school. Personally, I don't average when I read applications. But, many on here including LizzyM do. And, the point is at the end of the day, it means next to nothing who does or doesn't in the vast majority of cases. Retakes are always going to factor in, whether formally as an average or by simply knowing that someone took the test more than once.

 

[NoahIndonesia]

If OP is SDN noob enough to think that, @mimelim isn't the problem. OP is.

Haha I never said anything was a problem, I was just pointing out a fact about averaging scores. Chill.

 

[moop]

Haha I never said anything was a problem, I was just pointing out a fact about averaging scores. Chill.

Well, you SHOULD say it's a problem if OP is taking application advice the way you think he may be. That's a pretty big problem imo

 

[ridethecliche]

Moops rage posting again.

 

[NoahIndonesia]

Moops rage posting again.

Lol x 1000

 

[sparos]

.

 

[moop]

Moops rage posting again.

Yo fight me in MarioKart

 

[ridethecliche]

Yo fight me in LoL

Fixed

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

Thank you everyone for your input, it's great to get so many opinions on where I may have gone wrong.



I agree. I've applied to a couple SMP programs, I'll take a look at Toledo as well. I based my improvements for the second year off feedback I received from my state school post-rejection, however UWashington has a rather specific way of looking at applicants that may differ from the other schools I applied to. Thank you for your input!

I'm glad your taking this constructively; I really believe that you have a chance to get into a medical school

 

[moop]

Fixed

More like lol noob

 

[Feelgood Inc]

More like lol noob

lmao we found the dota player

 

[moop]

lmao we found the MarioKart player

Fixed