Confused Non-trad: PLZ HELP!?!

[klassicBeauty]

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Hello SDNers, I need some real help

I am currently 24 and am in a program that NIGMS funds that I felt would help my credentials as a MD/PhD applicant. However, the focus is SOLELY on getting a PhD which I can not do in field of public health w/o master's first....

Background: Graduated w/BS Biology 3.1gpa, MCAT score is outdated---but was low

Wrote in SDN in 08' and 09' got chewed out by some folks---but got a couple decent responses

I went with one option from SDN, started a 2nd bachelors at my state university--up until spring 2010..so just two semesters....

So, I have 163 hours with 3.1; its not budging; then I came back on here I think Perrotfish or some-- said the best and quickest thing to do is study for MCAT, get 30+ and do SMP; however, I did not do that because I already have 30,000 in loan debt from my first out of state school and most of the SMPs cost that much w/o room and board

I decided to accept this program--which I am in now---it pays a stipend but I am STILL in the same predicament; broke, not taking classes..improving credentials..very restrictive program

I want to take enough hours to at least get 3.3 then do a SMP, however the cost is what is the problem as well as the advice I am getting from the pre-health advisor here

The advisor wants me to just complete the program, and do a masters in biology here and take some medical courses here as allowed and apply afterwards. To me, that is 3yrs...and I know my gpa is very low but being "unemployed" for 3yrs again to be honest is NOT ideal for me. And yes I know you will be unemployed in medical school but there is a difference when you know you are in "your" field as oppose to "working to get into your field and adding 4 more years of unemployment on it"

I know most people who went straight in med school 21-22 or 1yr after, 23 do not understand the games your mind plays when you are not in school neither are you employed...its depressing to say the least.

My point is, sorry for the length,

should I apply for the traditional masters? do the 3yrs and suck it up?
Or try for SMP's dish the cash out and suck it up?

There is a program at UMDNJ-Newark that I believe will address both my needs; combined MBS/MPH program( if I were to do the MD/PhD---the Phd would be in epidemiology--infectious diseases---but based on my current situation may be less likely) but I hesitate because: 1) Most posts about the program on SDN do not offer many details 2) It is not well known in the general medical circles like the other SMP's 3) it's in NJ--the northern states are very expensive 4)Its a 2.5yr program 5) I'm not sure how many medical courses are available to take with medical students

Please forgive the length, but if there is any concrete advice that can be shared please do not hesitate. I am really in a bind about this, trying to make my next move my best move, so please don't be harsh!

 

[klassicBeauty]

Come on, 36 views and no replies...I know it was kind of long, but help me out folks!

 

[DrMidlife]

I was very gratified recently to see pretty much everything I recommend in this paper: http://www.naahp.org/resources_Postbac_Article2.htm.

My skepticisms:
1. It's 5 years old
2. In some places it's very specific about combinations of GPA/MCAT, in others, not so much, so you could easily conclude that with a profoundly uncompetitive GPA, that you can get yourself into med school by doing a thesis masters.
3. The authors are Drexelites and mention only Drexel. I doubt that the authors have knowledge of west coast particulars.

Enjoy.

 

[chilon09]

..........

 

[TyrKinase]

Background: Graduated w/BS Biology 3.1gpa, MCAT score is outdated---but was low

...snip...

So, I have 163 hours with 3.1; its not budging..

So you took another year of classes and your GPA didn't change at all? Is it safe to assume that you earned (roughly) a 3.1GPA during your post-bacc work in that year? If it were higher (or lower), it would have changed your overall GPA by some margin, right?

If my line of thought is correct (and I could definitely be wrong), I would suggest that you figure out how to get a higher GPA before you tackle more coursework, whether it's more undergraduate-level post-bacc work or a SMP. As someone who has been there, you aren't doing yourself any favors by jumping into a SMP if you don't know how to succeed in undergraduate courses first.

Again, lots of assumptions but based on what you've stated in your first post, that's my take. Good luck!

 

[BeachBlondie]

The whole issue here is:

How badly do you want this?

All of us, at some point, strayed from the path of feeding directly into medical school at the age of 22. Thus, we ALL have to make rough decisions as to how to proceed in such a way that makes us competitive. And, honestly, that's what makes non-traditional students so appealing to adcoms--we've been in the real world and we've worked hard to find our personal route into medicine. It shows moxy, and it's a journey that a lot of people cannot say that they've had.

With that being said--and taking into account the "how badly" factor--you need to not look at these options of yours in regards to the financial or time commitment. With your GPA in the shape it's in, you need to look at both options and decide which will you excel in.

Clearly, you're interested in beefing up your GPA. Significantly, if possible. So, finances shouldn't influence your decision on academics. Secondly, in order to make big leaps in numbers, you're probably going to need 2-3 years of consistent high performance--time should not be a deterring factor, either.

I understand where you're coming from with your gripes about unemployment--I do. I'm also 24 and am taking 2 years at Harvard to finish my pre-requisites. I, also, have nearly $40,000 in debt. But, at the end of the day, I want to perform in my classes....most importantly, I want to be a doctor. So no amount of time, and no financial hurdle is going to dissuade me from doing what's best for making my applications as competitive as they can be.

One makes necessary sacrifices for a dream, you know? Only YOU can decide what those sacrifices will be, and how far you want to go to achieve this goal.

 

[klassicBeauty]

I was very gratified recently to see pretty much everything I recommend in this paper: http://www.naahp.org/resources_Postbac_Article2.htm.

My skepticisms:
1. It's 5 years old
2. In some places it's very specific about combinations of GPA/MCAT, in others, not so much, so you could easily conclude that with a profoundly uncompetitive GPA, that you can get yourself into med school by doing a thesis masters.
3. The authors are Drexelites and mention only Drexel. I doubt that the authors have knowledge of west coast particulars.

Enjoy.

Thank you so much for uploading the article. As others have stated, I jumped the gun into the program when I needed to continue improving gpa and MCAT. This time, I will not be as impulsive! Thank you again!

 

[klassicBeauty]

I am not an expert by any means but after reading everything that you wrote I would suggest contacting the admissions departments of a few medical schools that you are interested in, personally meeting them if possible, and really examining your entire application. You said that you took the MCAT but it was really low and out of date. Most SMP's need a valid MCAT score so if you were to apply to an SMP, you need to focus on retaking the MCAT.

Also, I COMPLETELY understand the stress of feeling like you're already 24 and wondering how and when you will get closer to your goal of becoming a doctor. However, it seems like before you make any drastic decisions, you really need to sit down and research your options. I don't know what your current program is like but personally, if your goal is to go into medicine and you feel that you need to improve your GPA, etc then I would concentrate on applying to an SMP program that has a linkage to a medical school (a quick search on SDN will give you detailed list of all of the SMP programs). Again, I don't know the details about the position that you are in, but the money and time you will spend for a transitional masters in addition to the fact that you said that the program isn't really helping you get closer to your goal are big red flags. At least with an SMP that has a linkage to a medical school, you will feel like you are on the right path and not wasting time. If you end up going with an SMP that doesn't have a linkage, then you really need to weigh out the pros and cons in comparasion with your current situation.

I don't know anything about the program in New Jersey, but before you make a drastic decision, I would again advise you to just take a step back and look at ALL of the SMP's. In my mind, the only reasons why you should do an SMP is to improve your GPA, get MCAT prep help if necessary, and for the linkage to a medical school. If the New Jersey program doesn't provide linkage and isn't well known enough for medical schools to recognize it then it might be a mistake to switch programs because in a year or so, you'll be back to square one. If you are going to spend the money for the SMP, you really should choose a program that will help you achieve your long term goal of becoming a doctor regardless of the program's location, etc because in the end, you are the one who will benefit the most from it. While I don't think that you necessarily have to apply to the best, most competitive SMP out there, I would avoid one that doesn't have a linkage or at least information about previous matriculants.

Good luck.

Thank you for commenting! Yesterday the frustration just came to a head---and yes there will be other frustrating times in this journey but I am thankful nice people like you all can share some kind and comforting words that will help me focus on the goal at hand! Thank you again!

 

[klassicBeauty]

So you took another year of classes and your GPA didn't change at all? Is it safe to assume that you earned (roughly) a 3.1GPA during your post-bacc work in that year? If it were higher (or lower), it would have changed your overall GPA by some margin, right?

If my line of thought is correct (and I could definitely be wrong), I would suggest that you figure out how to get a higher GPA before you tackle more coursework, whether it's more undergraduate-level post-bacc work or a SMP. As someone who has been there, you aren't doing yourself any favors by jumping into a SMP if you don't know how to succeed in undergraduate courses first.

Again, lots of assumptions but based on what you've stated in your first post, that's my take. Good luck!

It was two semesters, a total of 19hrs, 9hrs one semester, 10hrs the next, the classes were not science-related thus, did not boost my scigpa, and financial restraints caused me to not have a book for a couple of classes but I am going to seek out part-time employment after this program, work on 30-50hrs more of ugrad, work on MCAT, and see if I can excel w/o a SMP or if not, do an SMP...but need to do sufficient work in upper-level science which me and my pre-health advisor been at odds about..somehow she "feels" the M.S. in bio would suffice..thats why I wrote in on SDN...but again thank you and your right.

 

[klassicBeauty]

The whole issue here is:

How badly do you want this?

All of us, at some point, strayed from the path of feeding directly into medical school at the age of 22. Thus, we ALL have to make rough decisions as to how to proceed in such a way that makes us competitive. And, honestly, that's what makes non-traditional students so appealing to adcoms--we've been in the real world and we've worked hard to find our personal route into medicine. It shows moxy, and it's a journey that a lot of people cannot say that they've had.

With that being said--and taking into account the "how badly" factor--you need to not look at these options of yours in regards to the financial or time commitment. With your GPA in the shape it's in, you need to look at both options and decide which will you excel in.

Clearly, you're interested in beefing up your GPA. Significantly, if possible. So, finances shouldn't influence your decision on academics. Secondly, in order to make big leaps in numbers, you're probably going to need 2-3 years of consistent high performance--time should not be a deterring factor, either.

I understand where you're coming from with your gripes about unemployment--I do. I'm also 24 and am taking 2 years at Harvard to finish my pre-requisites. I, also, have nearly $40,000 in debt. But, at the end of the day, I want to perform in my classes....most importantly, I want to be a doctor. So no amount of time, and no financial hurdle is going to dissuade me from doing what's best for making my applications as competitive as they can be.

One makes necessary sacrifices for a dream, you know? Only YOU can decide what those sacrifices will be, and how far you want to go to achieve this goal.

Thank you for comments! You are right! I do want this and feel it is my passion. Yesterday was just a frustrating head, one of many, but as you rightfully suggested, I just need to step-back, create a solid plan, execute the plan, so that I can be competitive on all ends! Thank you once again!

 

[BeachBlondie]

Thank you for comments! You are right! I do want this and feel it is my passion. Yesterday was just a frustrating head, one of many, but as you rightfully suggested, I just need to step-back, create a solid plan, execute the plan, so that I can be competitive on all ends! Thank you once again!

Good luck. And hey, despite what the tired/jaded masses on sdn say, you're going to do fine 🙂

 

[chilon09]

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