consequences of dropping out of MSTP

[tiredmdphd]

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Hello everyone,

I am just finishing my sencond year of medical school (actually I am in the middle of some clinical clerkships) and I found a new love for medicine. I did not know how great it was until I started practicing it. Before, I came into the program wanting to do mostly research in my future (I worked 3 years in a lab after college and published multiple times before entering the MSTP program), now I realize I don't want to do only 20% clinical in my future, I want the majority of my time to be clinical.

I am considering dropping out of the program and entering full time medical school. Will this impact me negatively when the time comes to apply for residency? Someone mentioned that this will be negativelly reflected on your Dean's letter. Is this true? I am hoping to do internal medicine residency in one of the top programs. How do PDs see MSTP dropouts?

If the decision will affect me negatively, I guess I could try to finish the degree but I don't want to be misserable for the next 6 years or so.

 

[JulyMorning]

Not all MD/PhD's end up with the 80/20 research clinical split, especially if they are not running their own lab. If you believe that you will be miserable for the next few years, you should step back and consider all of your options, including withdrawing from MSTP. There is nothing worse than doing graduate level research without your heart in it. Get good board scores, do well in clinical rotations, and you'll probably be more than fine when applying for residency. Speak to your home school IM program director and see what they say. Good luck!

 

[gbwillner]

I am considering dropping out of the program and entering full time medical school. Will this impact me negatively when the time comes to apply for residency? Someone mentioned that this will be negativelly reflected on your Dean's letter. Is this true? I am hoping to do internal medicine residency in one of the top programs. How do PDs see MSTP dropouts?

If the decision will affect me negatively, I guess I could try to finish the degree but I don't want to be misserable for the next 6 years or so.

This happens all the time. I would think long and hard about this decision- it's not one you will be able to reverse once made. I do not believe this will negatively affect your dean's letter, and even if it did, would not be as damaging as completing an MD/PhD program when you're not 100% into it. That's pretty mucht the worst thing you can do.
Leaving the program does not bar you from research in any way- it may only change your research focus later on (should you even want to do any).

Sit back and enjoy life. It will only get harder from here.

 

[tiredmdphd]

I really thought I wanted to do research most of the time but now I completely changed my mind. I thought of talking to the IM PD at my institution but I don't want to risk it getting to my MSTP program. Does anyone have any experience with this? I really don't want to spend 4 years on a PhD I am not going to enjoy.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Hello everyone,

I am just finishing my sencond year of medical school (actually I am in the middle of some clinical clerkships) and I found a new love for medicine. I did not know how great it was until I started practicing it. Before, I came into the program wanting to do mostly research in my future (I worked 3 years in a lab after college and published multiple times before entering the MSTP program), now I realize I don't want to do only 20% clinical in my future, I want the majority of my time to be clinical.

I am considering dropping out of the program and entering full time medical school. Will this impact me negatively when the time comes to apply for residency? Someone mentioned that this will be negativelly reflected on your Dean's letter. Is this true? I am hoping to do internal medicine residency in one of the top programs. How do PDs see MSTP dropouts?

If the decision will affect me negatively, I guess I could try to finish the degree but I don't want to be misserable for the next 6 years or so.

Ironically, just as a PhD would most help you were you to apply to IM/peds/neuro/path/psych/etc. residency, and less so for radiology/derm/surgery/etc. specialties, this may hurt you more for a high power academic IM match than for some other specialties.

If you're good clinically, you should still do fine in the IM match, regardless of the fact you dropped the PhD.

Dropping before even spending a year in lab may obscure the fact that you were ever in the program, but will also likely lead to a substantial number of people saying that you were in it "just for the money."

For what it's worth, this was something I had contemplated multiple times throughout my PhD, but primarily when the project was dead and I lacked mentorship. Looking back and nearing the finish line, I am so glad I didn't drop it, because I would have felt embarrassed in front of my peers, I would have suffered a huge blow to my confidence (such as it is), etc.

Weigh your options carefully.

 

[tiredmdphd]

I feel really bad for dropping out but the reason why is that I am really enjoying surgery and I envission myself going into neurosurgery (previously i was doing neuroscience research because i found it very interesting). I don't envision myself working like a pi; i actually enjoy lab work but not sitting around all day reading and writing. I am considering how will this impact me negativelly for my residency application. Maybe I should ask some of the PD of surgery in other subforums? Anyone has any info about this situation?.

Thank you very much

 

[gbwillner]

I feel really bad for dropping out but the reason why is that I am really enjoying surgery and I envission myself going into neurosurgery (previously i was doing neuroscience research because i found it very interesting). I don't envision myself working like a pi; i actually enjoy lab work but not sitting around all day reading and writing. I am considering how will this impact me negativelly for my residency application. Maybe I should ask some of the PD of surgery in other subforums? Anyone has any info about this situation?.

Thank you very much

As long as you do well in your surgery and neurosurgery rotations, as well as the Steps, dropping MSTP should not matter at all. Just realize neurosurgery is a relatively small field, and as such, can be very difficult to match into.

 

[Shifty B]

So, it will definitely hurt you, albeit possibly slightly. The thing is, you will have a proven track record at quitting something that you started, and how is that going to look to a program director considering offering you a 7 year residency. This may be a small thing that can be overcome in other ways, but it will be there.

That does not mean it's not the right decision. It is a far better thing to get out now and cut your losses rather than wasting a lot of time doing something you no longer want to do.

 

[tiredmdphd]

I talked to my Dean of Students fair and he assured me the MSPE (Dean's letter) will only reflect my clinical clerkships and basic science grades. My other question is how will this be viewed by PD? Shifty B, can I PM you about this?

 

[K31]

I talked to my Dean of Students fair and he assured me the MSPE (Dean's letter) will only reflect my clinical clerkships and basic science grades. My other question is how will this be viewed by PD?

If it's not in your dean's letter, how would PD's know unless you tell them?

 

[tiredmdphd]

The dean said the letter might say I changed my mind and decided to change to just MD, but in no way will it imply lack of character or have any negative comments about this decision.

 

[solitude]

The dean said the letter might say I changed my mind and decided to change to just MD, but in no way will it imply lack of character or have any negative comments about this decision.

no offense, but actions speak louder than words. Not saying it's a bad decision, but recommendation letters are usually more about reading between the lines.

 

[Shifty B]

I only mean that you did start something and then change your mind about what you were actually interested in. That's not that much different from starting one residency and then deciding you wanted to change specialty. That may make a few PDs a little uneasy, that's all.

If they don't find out about it, then I suppose it can't possibly hurt you. However, I think you have to assume that they may find out about it in one way or another (either on your deans letter, transcript, or in some other way). Plus, you're going to be asked questions during your interviews about the path you took to get interested in both medicine in general as well as specialty X and it may simply come up.

I personally think the best way to address this is to be completely up front about it. You can always say something like:

"I started at University of X in the Medical Scientist training program, but after experiencing the first 2 years of medical school I discovered that my interest in clinical medicine was much stronger than my interest in purely basic science research. Given this new interest, I decided to change directions and pursue the MD only so that my efforts could be concentrated towards being the best clinician possible."

Most residency directors are going to be understanding about this. In fact, many people will respect the fact that you had the courage to change course when you knew your interests were leading you another way. Plus, a significant fraction of clinicians think MD/PhD is a waste of time anyway, so you won't get any grief from them.

PM me if you have specific questions you'd rather not address in the forum

 

[Maebea]

The person who writes the dean's letter has no incentive to say anything that will portray you in a bad light; she wants you to match in the best program possible. The last thing she wants to do is have to help you scramble into a position. As long has you have done nothing that predicts that you will be a problem in a residency program, there will be nothing negative (stated or implied) in that letter. Around 15% of those that start MD-PhD programs do not complete, so you will not be without some company when you apply for residency.

The only thing I would ask is that once you have established yourself in your career and find yourself with a comfortable bank account and generous frame of mind, you consider throwing a little cash at the program that supported you for the first two years of medical school.

 

[tardis]

I dropped out of an MD-PhD program before starting the research component in my second year, and just matched to Rads (in Canada). Although my deans letter indicated the program switch, no one commented on this during my interviews. Some programs I didn't interview at may have read between the lines and inferred a lack of character, but my PD had made things clear during my interview that if I decided I was better off not doing the PhD, it was perfectly fine to change my mind. (I never thought I would at the time, but life has a way of surprising you)

 

[ConcernedMDPhD]

There's not much info out there so I'm also here asking questions about the procedure of withdrawing from the MD/PhD program. I have come to the realization that I am a lot more clinically oriented and have decided to leave the PhD at the end of my first year of graduate school. I am not looking forward to the conversation with the program director or my PI but the alternative would likely result in me being a complete failure and seriously unhappy. I have heard that they STRONGLY insist on students continuing on.

My questions are more practical ones. Since I am mid-semester could the graduate school require me to payback tuition for the semester if I leave now? The graduate and medical school calenders are not aligned so there are deadlines for registering for clinical rotations I would like to meet but am concerned about alerting my advisor if I have to spend 2 more months in lab. For those of you who are informed how did you go about transitioning since the MD/PhD office is no longer your liaison for your transition to medical school.

I am also concerned about funding for the coming medical semester. I am coming up on the FAFSA deadlines really quickly and cannot apply without alerting the whole program of my intention to leave.

My biggest concern is when to alert my PI, the MD/PhD director and the graduate DGS? I dont want to end up with $12 000 worth of debt for graduate classes or enduring 2 months in lab with a very unhappy and difficult PI who is aware that I may have wasted his time and money (albeit unintentionally).

Any advice about this process is welcome. Thanks