Considering DO app 2012: Help!

[Dr Dazzle]

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Hi,

What date is defined as applying early to DO schools? I've heard that DO schools accept applications later in the cycle than MD schools.

Also, how many DO physician letter of recommendations should be obtained? How much experience in DO shadowing is needed to apply to DO schools? I have several hours in MD specialties.

Have a 3.5 cumulative and 3.3 sci gpa and 24 MCAT. Contemplating retake.

Any advice/ help would be appreciated!

Thanks

 

[fzwarrior]

You want to apply for the entering class of 2012? Its pretty late for that so you would probably be better off saving your money and applying next year at the beginning of the cycle. I would retake the MCAT and apply early next time around.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

You want to apply for the entering class of 2012? Its pretty late for that so you would probably be better off saving your money and applying next year at the beginning of the cycle. I would retake the MCAT and apply early next time around.

👍

However, if you have the means to apply now financially and can get it all together ASAP, you might have an okay shot. I've heard crazier stories and I know I have classmates that put in their apps in January and got in here as well as othe places. It's just less likely.

Our class size is increasing by about 75 students next year, so if you're not set on any particular school or region, put it on your list if it wasn't already. Honestly though, just make sure you don't scramble to get a mediocre letter, all for the sake of applying now.

As far as letters, I think it was only one when I applied. LMU now takes either DO or MD letter, but I'd shoot to get a DO one because that means you did shadow and since your shadowing is MD thus far, it's always nice to say you've seen a DO before, even if it really doesn't matter to the adcom. There's no set standard for hours. I think I only shadowed 2 docs, one for about 6 hours, one for about 8 and that was over 2 years for two application cycles. Then again, I volunteered in a clinic staffed by 2 DOs so I considered that my own personal shadowing, not that I claimed it as such in a personal statement or anything.

Hope that helps....if you really just want to give it a go, throw an app in, just make sure it's a quality one because they'll see through it otherwise. You are likely to be asked along the way if you do get interviews why you applied so late, so be prepared for that as well. Good luck!

 

[572776]

I think some schools might require a letter from DO (check each school's reqs) but most don't care whether MD or DO. The schools that I applied to required a letter from either MD or DO and I only had MD letters and they were ok with it. You would be better off if you shadowed a DO if it comes up on interview. I did not shadow a DO before I interviewed and they asked me "Oh, so if you never shadowed a DO then how do you know anything about this profession blah blah blah" and I said that I've watched youtube videos of OMM and threw out some terms at them that I remembered from the videos lol. It worked just fine. I ended up getting into the school.

Your gpa is not bad but mcat is a little low, so apply early summer as soon as it opens up to max your chances. Also, on your secondary and in the interview talk about how you agree with their philosophy and how you wanna learn OMM.

 

[Iliketoytles]

Hi,

What date is defined as applying early to DO schools? I've heard that DO schools accept applications later in the cycle than MD schools.

Also, how many DO physician letter of recommendations should be obtained? How much experience in DO shadowing is needed to apply to DO schools? I have several hours in MD specialties.

Have a 3.5 cumulative and 3.3 sci gpa and 24 MCAT. Contemplating retake.

Any advice/ help would be appreciated!

Thanks

To answer your questions:

June 1st is early to apply to DO schools (first day). But generally, June/July are the early months in the application season. Maybe even August. It simply depends on how competitive you are as an applicant.

You only need 1 physician letter. Most schools will either take an MD or DO letter... but you might as well get a DO letter if you can, since these schools recommend a DO letter compared to an MD letter.

Your cGPA is average, sGPA is slightly below average, and your MCAT is well below average. Retake your MCAT for sure and aim for a 27+.

Now my advice would be to NOT apply this cycle. I'm sure most schools will still accept applications, but since it's almost February, and you haven't submitted AACOMAS yet... and since your stats are on the lower side... and since you don't have a LOR yet... you won't get in this cycle.

Save yourself the stress and money and just apply early next cycle and you'll get interviews.

Good luck!

 

[GraceEuphoria]

To answer your questions:

June 1st is early to apply to DO schools (first day). But generally, June/July are the early months in the application season. Maybe even August. It simply depends on how competitive you are as an applicant.

You only need 1 physician letter. Most schools will either take an MD or DO letter... but you might as well get a DO letter if you can, since these schools recommend a DO letter compared to an MD letter.

Your cGPA is average, sGPA is slightly below average, and your MCAT is well below average. Retake your MCAT for sure and aim for a 27+.

Now my advice would be to NOT apply this cycle. I'm sure most schools will still accept applications, but since it's almost February, and you haven't submitted AACOMAS yet... and since your stats are on the lower side... and since you don't have a LOR yet... you won't get in this cycle.

Save yourself the stress and money and just apply early next cycle and you'll get interviews.

Good luck!

I can't speak for all schools by any stretch, but for osteopathic programs, I don't really think that MCAT is "well below" average. I believe ours has run 25 most years, but then again, I never asked about this year's average. Maybe other schools are much higher? Someone please chime in- maybe it is that much higher of an average of the old schools- PCOM, CCOM etc. My impression always was until you're looking at allopathic programs, a 24 is THAT far off the mark. Though, a retake would definitely adviseable for next year to 1.) Improve your score, obviously and 2.) Show you care enough to retake it and want to improve your shot. Just my perceptions through the process though, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

The average mcat for all DO schools last year was 28 with an average gpa of 3.48. Applying now would be a giant waste mainly because the people the OP would be competing against the MD hopefuls that aren't getting any luck and try to rush into a DO program at the last minute. I personally recommend an MCAT retake to help increase chances, but OP if you apply June 1st and get your stuff in very quickly, you might be able to get an acceptance. Check out the underdog thread. There are tons of people I would have counted out that made it. Just not seeing it this cycle.

And I think the average is climbing for individual schools. I would bet that instead of having the average made up of 28s and 24s, the very soon future will be made up of mostly 27s. My opinion though.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

To clarify, I am applying this coming summer and am planning on shadowing a DO and getting a letter soon. Perhaps 2 letters.

My subscores were 9PS, 9 VR, 6 BS...so in my retake of May/June, I am hoping to get it to 27+ min.

However, I forgot that DO schools factor in the top grades after retakes. Therefore, my sci gpa should get pretty close to 3.4. My cum. will stay around mid 3.5.

What are the top DO schools and their stats?

I'm in last semester of undergrad so hoping to finish off strong to help with admissions.
Additionally, I am thinking about pursing a MS in physiology program in the year off.
How do DO schools look upon Masters programs and would that help my case?

I would like to go to DO schools with higher match rates into competitive specialties.

Thanks again!

 

[GraceEuphoria]

The average mcat for all DO schools last year was 28 with an average gpa of 3.48. Applying now would be a giant waste mainly because the people the OP would be competing against the MD hopefuls that aren't getting any luck and try to rush into a DO program at the last minute. I personally recommend an MCAT retake to help increase chances, but OP if you apply June 1st and get your stuff in very quickly, you might be able to get an acceptance. Check out the underdog thread. There are tons of people I would have counted out that made it. Just not seeing it this cycle.

I agree with you on competing with MD hopefuls...I hear stories for what that's worth of schools seeing through that though and not admitting those students despite great stats.

Also, here's a link to stats for entering students:
http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/2012cib/2012cib-p12-13.pdf
According to my math, the average MCAT was 26.49, so 26 or 27 basically right? I still don't think a 24 is considered that crazy off base, but if you're shooting for a top school, then obviously the higher the better. A retake is of course a good idea. Honestly, the schools seem to love good verbals these days and I would definitely try to get that BS up a little so there's not a disparity. Then again, I had a sucky PS with a 3 pt gap between that and my BS/verbal, so it might not ruin you.

To clarify, I am applying this coming summer and am planning on shadowing a DO and getting a letter soon. Perhaps 2 letters.

My subscores were 9PS, 9 VR, 6 BS...so in my retake of May/June, I am hoping to get it to 27+ min.

However, I forgot that DO schools factor in the top grades after retakes. Therefore, my sci gpa should get pretty close to 3.4. My cum. will stay around mid 3.5.

What are the top DO schools and their stats?

I'm in last semester of undergrad so hoping to finish off strong to help with admissions.
Additionally, I am thinking about pursing a MS in physiology program in the year off.
How do DO schools look upon Masters programs and would that help my case?

I would like to go to DO schools with higher match rates into competitive specialties.

Thanks again!

So you meant applying in 2012 this whole time, not trying to matriculate, huh 🙂 That helps. Again, can't speak for all schools, but I think Master's are often just as appropriate as SMPs. I did half a Masters, got accepted in Dec, and dropped out lol. Your stats don't deem you worthy of an SMP in my opinion, so I think the physio program would probably be a good thing. I would talk to adcom people at these top schools to get verification though, or at least talk to students who have been accepted there to see what they went through with similar stats as yours.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

http://doapplicants.com/Pages/Schools/Schools.aspx?mode=2

this is a link to school info, however I am not certain on how old the data is. the top schools are generally the older ones, but looking on the list, the are the ones with the highest gpa and mcat averages. Match rates are dependent of person so the schools match list is worthless. A masters program would be good only if you want to.

You might be able to get into a top DO school with an MCAT retake, but it is mainly on you, as you will see the "bottom" DO schools still matching students into good residencies. just focus on getting in somewhere at this point.

EDIT: I read masters in psychology. My bad. Physiology would look decent. You don't have a really low GPA so it definitely isn't going to hurt.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

http://doapplicants.com/Pages/Schools/Schools.aspx?mode=2

this is a link to school info, however I am not certain on how old the data is. the top schools are generally the older ones, but looking on the list, the are the ones with the highest gpa and mcat averages. Match rates are dependent of person so the schools match list is worthless. A masters program would be good only if you want to.

You might be able to get into a top DO school with an MCAT retake, but it is mainly on you, as you will see the "bottom" DO schools still matching students into good residencies. just focus on getting in somewhere at this point.

I didn't check your link, but just as a heads up for mine, the MCAT I quoted was from applicants that started during my year (2010), so maybe it changed in 2011?

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I didn't check your link, but just as a heads up for mine, the MCAT I quoted was from applicants that started during my year (2010), so maybe it changed in 2011?

actually, I just reread my first post. I didn't mean to say the average was 28. I meant the average was 27, which as you pointed out is kind of right. And I would use your link for accurate information, definitely not mine. But it does show a slight upward trend over the past few years, but many MD applicants are saying that it is unbelievably competitive this year, without knowing why and I think it is applicable to DO schools. Some are getting in with 24s but being that it is below average, it isn't going to provide the best options.

And as I stated, I wouldn't be surprised if this years average was 27ish with most schools hovering in the 26 region. I have absolutely no sources, just speculation from talk.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

actually, I just reread my first post. I didn't mean to say the average was 28. I meant the average was 27, which as you pointed out is kind of right. And I would use your link for accurate information, definitely not mine. But it does show a slight upward trend over the past few years, but many MD applicants are saying that it is unbelievably competitive this year, without knowing why and I think it is applicable to DO schools. Some are getting in with 24s but being that it is below average, it isn't going to provide the best options.

And as I stated, I wouldn't be surprised if this years average was 27ish with most schools hovering in the 26 region. I have absolutely no sources, just speculation from talk.

Speculation it may be, but you're probably spot on. Especially if the OP is wanting to attend one of the more competitive programs.


**Edit: on a funnier note, the link I posted leads me to believe you could be a drug addict and a criminal and still be accepted to OSU lol. Not a slam on them by any stretch, just an interesting observation. Also, I'm SHOCKED by how many schools don't require a drug test. Not saying it is a make or break, or makes a difference (of course people can get around those for one test), but I just kind of thought it would be standard fare and they wouldn't wait until 3rd for that. Interesting...

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Thanks for your replies guys! Btw...how has been your experience in medical school thus far. Any advice for doing well in the curriculum in the first 2 years? I am nervous, since my stats are a bit on the low side and am not sure if i'll be able to succeed.

Do you recommend taking certain classes before starting medical school. Perhaps, biochem, anatomy, physio, histology etc?

Have any of you taken the comlex/step 1 yet? What was your experience for that?

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Thanks for your replies guys! Btw...how has been your experience in medical school thus far. Hard. Rewarding. Any advice for doing well in the curriculum in the first 2 years? Study a LOT. Then study some more. But take breaks too. You'll figure it out. But for the first test, study like a crazy person and go from there. I am nervous, since my stats are a bit on the low side and am not sure if i'll be able to succeed. Mine were too. It doesn't mean you can't make it, I promise. It also means you're not immune to failing.

Do you recommend taking certain classes before starting medical school. Perhaps, biochem, anatomy, physio, histology etc? I took it all it seems (minus anatomy because they say it's like apples and oranges and not really necessary). I had a bio major that included genetics, biochem, cellular, physio, virology, histo, pathophys and an audited immunology. Did it make me a rockstar? Nope. Could it for others? Sure, but I think they'd probably be rockstars anyway. That said, take what you think you'll be weakest in to give yourself a foundation. Just remember basically everything you'll do in those courses will be covered in the first week of those blocks.

Have any of you taken the comlex/step 1 yet? What was your experience for that?Taking COMLEX and USMLE this June. Thoughts TBA[/QUOTE]

 

[sylvanthus]

Thanks for your replies guys! Btw...how has been your experience in medical school thus far. Any advice for doing well in the curriculum in the first 2 years? I am nervous, since my stats are a bit on the low side and am not sure if i'll be able to succeed. You will likely be fine, just need to set-up a rhythm and schedule and overstudy for the first test so you start out on a good footing. Then if you can scale it back from there, feel free to do so.

Do you recommend taking certain classes before starting medical school. Perhaps, biochem, anatomy, physio, histology etc? I don't think it will help all that much to be honest, but if you have the time, may as well take as many of the courses as you can. Every little bit helps.

Have any of you taken the comlex/step 1 yet? What was your experience for that?

Yes, my school gave us 3-4 weeks to study. Which, in retrospect was likely enough time as you start to burn out after that. I did not have a summer break, though, as I used all my summer to study and then jumped right into rotations. USMLE and COMLEX are not that hard to study for simultaneously. But, the style of questions are different. So, it is important to figure this out. For USMLE, they give you multiple hints to help you narrow down the diagnosis/correct answer. COMLEX, on the other hand, gives you very little information and is generally looking for the "most common" cause or most likely diagnosis. So, oftentimes, you'll be best served by going with your gut instinct on the COMLEX. I remember during the exam having to remind myself to go with my gut during the COMLEX and not overthink the questions. But, this does not work for the USMLE. Therefore, even though the content is mostly the same, the style of questions are very different.

 

[sylvanthus]

Huh, not quite sure why the formatting came out like that. My bad.