Continued Educatio???

[rambo2006]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hello, I heard it mentioned a few times on SDN that a general dentist can persue continued education classes and then be able to perform root canals, braces, implant work. How long do these Con. Ed. classes take? Is it worth it? What are the pros and cons of taking these classes and bieng able to perform procedures...can you charge for a root canal anywhere close to what an endodontist can, even if you declare that you are only a General dentist?

thanks

 

[S Files]

Hello, I heard it mentioned a few times on SDN that a general dentist can persue continued education classes and then be able to perform root canals, braces, implant work. How long do these Con. Ed. classes take? Is it worth it? What are the pros and cons of taking these classes and bieng able to perform procedures...can you charge for a root canal anywhere close to what an endodontist can, even if you declare that you are only a General dentist?

thanks

Continuing education is key for staying up to date and learning new skills. however, understand that there is a limit to c.e. you'll learn some, but there's a ceiling, beyond which,...well that's what specialists are for. plus there's a lot of b.s courses out there which promise the world. i'd say there are some good rotary endo c.e. courses out there. but in terms of braces, that's too large of a discipline to learn via c.e., it's complicated because ortho is not a 1 appt. procedure. implants, on a case selection basis, could learn how to do the simpler implant procedures.
you can charge whatever you want for a root canal.

 

[dheav005]

CE (continuing education) is usually a requirement for maintaining a state license to practice. check with your board for the specifics, but its pretty universal.

you learn just enough before you graduate to be marginally competant in most areas of clinical practice...therefore, CE is a necessity! pick up a JADA or any of the industry throw-away journals and you'll find TONS of options for CE in all kinds of groovy locales. there are topics and techniques out there that most of us havent even heard of...

as for the procedures a general dentsit can perform, they are only limited by his personal comfort and willingness to take on the standard of care burden that is in place. endo can be profitable, but only if you are practiced enough to compare to endo guys in quality and speed. the same is true for perio or surgery...other than stuff like IV sedation, your general dentistry license (at least in TN) doesnt have any preclusions on it. if you want to get into advanced stuff, its your butt on the line if it doesnt meet standard of care when that case is brought before a court of the state board. thus, you gots to get solid CE and not just fluff. plenty to learn, you best gets after it.

 

[DrJeff]

After having taken over 1500 hours of CE since I graduated almost 10 years ago, I've come to realize that many CE courses/speakers will fall into 1 of 2 types.

The first type of CE course/speaker is what I call the "I love myself/topic" course/speaker. This type of course/speaker is generally a 1 full day course where the day goes something like the following (remember most "full day" CE courses are basically 3 90 minute sessions (90 minutes - mid AM break - 90 minutes - lunch - 90 minutes -questions/done). This type of course/ speaker spends the first 90 minutes telling you how great they are and what type of accolades they have🙄 The 2nd 90 minute session they spend telling you in big broad topics what they plan on telling you that day😴 and then the final session they spend telling you how you should really goto their 3 day weekend seminar to get all the info😡 Bascially they tell you very little pertanent info during that day.

The 2nd type, is one where at the end of the day, your hand is sore from jotting notes all day and it seems like the almost 5 hours of lecturing you've just heard took all of 15 minutes. These are the good speakers(and they're around on almost every topic) where they're not about telling you about how great they are, but are about telling you about the topic that they're lecturing on that day and are quite passionate about it.

The other thing about CE courses I've noticed over the years, is what is a "bad" CE course for 1 person is a "great" CE course for another, it's all about how/what the speaker is saying and does it connect with your interest/learning style.

Remember, we all "practice" dentistry, maybe someday we'll get it correct😉 😀

 

[Lesley]

Hello, I heard it mentioned a few times on SDN that a general dentist can persue continued education classes and then be able to perform root canals, braces, implant work. How long do these Con. Ed. classes take? Is it worth it? What are the pros and cons of taking these classes and bieng able to perform procedures...can you charge for a root canal anywhere close to what an endodontist can, even if you declare that you are only a General dentist?

thanks

I have taken a lot of courses over the years. Some better than others.
Sometimes you get only one gem from a course, sometimes a lot, but occasionally you walk out empty handed. It's hard to predict. I think the courses offered by the dental schools are usually very good with knowledgable professors, current information and good syllabus. I took a lot of courses in the Navy, all good. The teaching manuals they provided during my abbreviated rotations through the specialities were excellent. I've taken a Boston University course given over several weekends for prosthetics. Very good. UPenn offers a very good soft tissue management course, basically root planning and scaling, but excellent. Buchanan offers a very good endo course. Even if you don't adhere to his system, you can learn a lot as he goes through the anatomy and basics of root canal. There are many good cosmetic dentistry courses available. I try to stay away from courses marketing too many dental materials. It gets confusing. Those are the one's that make me wonder if I need to order an entire new stash of dental products for my office. I try to stay with basic courses from reputable instructors. It's the little things that you take away from a course that sometimes can make a big difference. I was very impressed with one instructor. A well known guy. He basically presented all of his blunders, x-ray after x-ray, at the beginning of course. He learned from his mistakes and was letting us learn too. A very nice guy, a good instructor, no BS, my kind of guy. Listen to your peers, if they say they enjoyed and found a course useful, follow up. Good luck.

 

[DrJeff]

I was very impressed with one instructor. A well known guy. He basically presented all of his blunders, x-ray after x-ray, at the beginning of course. He learned from his mistakes and was letting us learn too. A very nice guy, a good instructor, no BS, my kind of guy. Listen to your peers, if they say they enjoyed and found a course useful, follow up. Good luck.

I'm a big fan of these type of courses too, it's great to see from time to time that we all have clinical failures(and if you haven't yet, you haven't been working on teeth long enough). And the amount you can learn from a failure is often greater than your greatest clinical success.

The other basic CE type that I'm enjoying more and more these days is the panel discussion format. Basically when you have 3 or 4 clinicians/educators talking about the same topic on the same stage, you tend to get a great amount of good info and often some lively discussion about issues. A couple of weeks ago at the ADA meeting in Las Vegas, I attended a really lively panel discussion where 4 endodontists were talking about can we really clean and shape the root canal system. That 2.5 hours went by like it was 2.5 minutes! Lots of pages of notes and tid-bits I took home from that one.

Starting out, try and see as many speakers/topics as you can, see the "big" names, and see some of the lesser known names, and don't just see broad topics that really interest you, take a few courses about some of your least favorites components of dentistry too, since you never know where that true gem of info maight show up.

 

[Holy Thursday]

I heard it mentioned a few times on SDN that a general dentist can persue continued education classes and then be able to perform root canals, braces, implant work.

To those with more years of experience under your belt: is it really wise to do specialist work without a specialist degree? I mean, you don't just risk higher malpractice insurance, you risk your name and your license to practice general dentistry. Thus, how smart is it to practice orthodontia or put uncooperative kids under general anesthesia when you have never had a formal education in those areas?

 

[johntara04]

To those with more years of experience under your belt: is it really wise to do specialist work without a specialist degree? I mean, you don't just risk higher malpractice insurance, you risk your name and your license to practice general dentistry. Thus, how smart is it to practice orthodontia or put uncooperative kids under general anesthesia when you have never had a formal education in those areas?

CE is formal education. These aren't taken in the back alleys, with the projectors focused on some guy in shade's open overcoat. You pay thousands of dollars and spend hours to days to weeks to months learning how to do these procedures. I think in most states, to get an anthesia class IV license you need to take an eight month course before you can put people under general anethesia. As a GP, if you do ortho, endo, os, perio it won't affect your malpractice rates. You will still pay the same. Anesthesia willl affect your rates though.

If you've learned how to do these procedures, it is very smart to do these procedures. You will be better able to serve your patients. Should you do all of these procedures? Probably not. You will still have some 'special' cases that you refer to the specialist.

 

[Lesley]

To those with more years of experience under your belt: is it really wise to do specialist work without a specialist degree? I mean, you don't just risk higher malpractice insurance, you risk your name and your license to practice general dentistry. Thus, how smart is it to practice orthodontia or put uncooperative kids under general anesthesia when you have never had a formal education in those areas?

Just because a general dentist takes a lot of continuing ed doesn't mean they don't refer. My husband are more than happy to refer. We do do a lot of endo, but we refer a lot to. We do some extractions, crowns/bridge, cosmetic dentistry, intial peridontal therapy and place crowns on implants. We not place the implants. We refer to oral surgeons, prosthodontists, periodontists, orthodontists and pedodontists too. We do not do general anesthesia, conscious sedation, not even nitrous. We keep it pretty simple.

Even to do what you learn in dental school, you need a lot of continual educational support. Talking to other dentists at meetings is refreshing also. If you're in a small office, most days the only interaction you may have with another dentist is limited to discussing a case you referred to a specialist.

Sometimes refering is good even if you can do the procedure. If you are heavily booked and a patient needs a root canal, a specialist may be able to accomodate the patient within a better time frame. Your patient will be back to you for the post and core and crown and will appreciate that you helped solve their pain problem.

A general dentist in a rural area may need to become proficient in more areas. Continuing ed in endo or oral surgery may serve his patients well.

After doing the required restorations, crowns, simple extractions and root canals in dental school, there is still a lot to learn. The older and more experienced you get, case selection gets easier because you know what you enjoy doing and your educational limits. Refering is a very good thing and so is continuing education.

 

[rambo2006]

Just because a general dentist takes a lot of continuing ed doesn't mean they don't refer. My husband are more than happy to refer. We do do a lot of endo, but we refer a lot to. We do some extractions, crowns/bridge, cosmetic dentistry, intial peridontal therapy and place crowns on implants. We not place the implants. We refer to oral surgeons, prosthodontists, periodontists, orthodontists and pedodontists too. We do not do general anesthesia, conscious sedation, not even nitrous. We keep it pretty simple.

Even to do what you learn in dental school, you need a lot of continual educational support. Talking to other dentists at meetings is refreshing also. If you're in a small office, most days the only interaction you may have with another dentist is limited to discussing a case you referred to a specialist.

Sometimes refering is good even if you can do the procedure. If you are heavily booked and a patient needs a root canal, a specialist may be able to accomodate the patient within a better time frame. Your patient will be back to you for the post and core and crown and will appreciate that you helped solve their pain problem.

A general dentist in a rural area may need to become proficient in more areas. Continuing ed in endo or oral surgery may serve his patients well.

After doing the required restorations, crowns, simple extractions and root canals in dental school, there is still a lot to learn. The older and more experienced you get, case selection gets easier because you know what you enjoy doing and your educational limits. Refering is a very good thing and so is continuing education.

That was very informative. Thanks👍

 

[Holy Thursday]

CE is formal education. These aren't taken in the back alleys, with the projectors focused on some guy in shade's open overcoat. You pay thousands of dollars and spend hours to days to weeks to months learning how to do these procedures. I think in most states, to get an anthesia class IV license you need to take an eight month course before you can put people under general anethesia. As a GP, if you do ortho, endo, os, perio it won't affect your malpractice rates. You will still pay the same. Anesthesia willl affect your rates though.

If you've learned how to do these procedures, it is very smart to do these procedures. You will be better able to serve your patients. Should you do all of these procedures? Probably not. You will still have some 'special' cases that you refer to the specialist.

Yeah, I understand that CE is formal education, but c'mon! If you wanted to practice orthodontics, why would you even bother with a post-doc if you can theoretically get the same level of education from CE? That's the point that I am trying to make.

 

[aphistis]

Yeah, I understand that CE is formal education, but c'mon! If you wanted to practice orthodontics, why would you even bother with a post-doc if you can theoretically get the same level of education from CE? That's the point that I am trying to make.

Because you'll rarely take the complicated specialty cases that are the bread & butter for the specialists who've completed residency. Using orthodontics as an example, straightening a mildly crowded, class I dentition with braces is much easier than resolving a severe, skeletally involved ortho case, and that difficulty is what the specialists' extra training prepares them to address. The same principle applies to most specialty procedures.

 

[johntara04]

Because you'll rarely take the complicated specialty cases that are the bread & butter for the specialists who've completed residency. Using orthodontics as an example, straightening a mildly crowded, class I dentition with braces is much easier than resolving a severe, skeletally involved ortho case, and that difficulty is what the specialists' extra training prepares them to address. The same principle applies to most specialty procedures.

This is a perfect answer to your question.

 

[MsPurtell]

I haven't taken any CE courses yet, but man I would be livid if I paid a lot of money and got that first type speaker you talk about. What a waste!

It seems like maybe you have to go more based on the reputation of the training program. Like Lesley mentioned, certain trainging programs seem to be known for certain topics.

After having taken over 1500 hours of CE since I graduated almost 10 years ago, I've come to realize that many CE courses/speakers will fall into 1 of 2 types.

The first type of CE course/speaker is what I call the "I love myself/topic" course/speaker. This type of course/speaker is generally a 1 full day course where the day goes something like the following (remember most "full day" CE courses are basically 3 90 minute sessions (90 minutes - mid AM break - 90 minutes - lunch - 90 minutes -questions/done). This type of course/ speaker spends the first 90 minutes telling you how great they are and what type of accolades they have🙄 The 2nd 90 minute session they spend telling you in big broad topics what they plan on telling you that day😴 and then the final session they spend telling you how you should really goto their 3 day weekend seminar to get all the info😡 Bascially they tell you very little pertanent info during that day.

The 2nd type, is one where at the end of the day, your hand is sore from jotting notes all day and it seems like the almost 5 hours of lecturing you've just heard took all of 15 minutes. These are the good speakers(and they're around on almost every topic) where they're not about telling you about how great they are, but are about telling you about the topic that they're lecturing on that day and are quite passionate about it.

The other thing about CE courses I've noticed over the years, is what is a "bad" CE course for 1 person is a "great" CE course for another, it's all about how/what the speaker is saying and does it connect with your interest/learning style.

Remember, we all "practice" dentistry, maybe someday we'll get it correct😉 😀

 

[DrJeff]

I haven't taken any CE courses yet, but man I would be livid if I paid a lot of money and got that first type speaker you talk about. What a waste!

It seems like maybe you have to go more based on the reputation of the training program. Like Lesley mentioned, certain trainging programs seem to be known for certain topics.

I have a feeling that I'm headed to one tommorrow🙄 Many state dental societies will offer a package plan that provides many yearly hours of CE. For example, in CT, my society has a yearly package plan for members where for roughly $450 a year I get to attend 7 full day (7 hours of CE) lectures + attendance to the CT State Dental Society where I can take upto another 14 hours of CE. Fortunately, most of the CE speakers that the CT State Dental Society gets aren't type 1👍

So $450 for upto 63 hours of yearly CE isn't bad at all, considering some of the big name speakers will get over $1000 for a 14 to 20 CE hour weekend course.