Continued validity of LizzyM scores?

[Glazedonutlove]

Check the AAMC page. They have full reports on the changing admissions criteria, many of which have been linked here on SDN.

Right but that's aamc. I haven't heard of any medical school itself changing their criteria unless an adcom here has insight?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[a_borgia]

Right but that's aamc. I haven't heard of any medical school itself changing their criteria unless an adcom here has insight?

They have. Among others, UMich, Perelman, and Icahn have all formally declared a more holistic prerequisite and admission process with renewed focus on a liberal arts education.

 

[p0gono]

Hmmm.

OP, I'm wondering if you're getting at the perception of the new MCAT this cycle as it is in the same pool as the old MCAT, a known entity. Like, are they going to trust an old LizzyM 76 over a new LizzyM 76 equivalent simply because they haven't had the chance to do stats on the predictive power of the new test yet?

I could see that maybe.

 

[Nietzschelover]

New and old LizzyM scores, actually. I'm interested in how changes in the MCAT and admission criteria affect how schools approach high student stats.

The bolded would have been a good first post if your interest is genuine.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

They have. Among others, UMich, Perelman, and Icahn have all formally declared a more holistic prerequisite and admission process with renewed focus on a liberal arts education.

More flexible with pre-reqs? Sure. But I won't believe the uber high gpa/MCAT standards have changed until I see it (I'm referring more to Penn and Sinai).

 

[LizzyM]

Our dean told us, quick & dirty, a MCAT of x in the new system is about the same our average MCAT of y in the old system. No change in admission criteria... Maybe some schools are going to use this new MCAT to throw out an emphasis on numbers and pick students more holistically (more URM without getting grief from high scoring ORM about the school's choices).

 

[steelersfan1243]

Our dean told us, quick & dirty, a MCAT of x in the new system is about the same our average MCAT of y in the old system. No change in admission criteria... Maybe some schools are going to use this new MCAT to throw out an emphasis on numbers and pick students more holistically (more URM without getting grief from high scoring ORM about the school's choices).

Would you like to share that table conversion chart?

 

[NotASerialKiller]

Would you like to share that table conversion chart?

Here is the chart the OP is looking for:

Under 77 LizzyM --> Stuff
Over 77 LizzyM --> Go practice interviews you already know your stats can't possibly hold you back

 

[Strudel19]

Will we ever be able to stop equating the 2015 MCAT score to the old MCAT? Seeing everyone on sdn say they have a 44 MCAT is getting a little absurd.

 

[carpediem22]

Medical schools want high stats applicants with killer/amazing ECs from diverse backgrounds. Deviate from that picture on any angle (stats, killer/amazing ECs, diverse background) and your chances decrease. Simple. If all you have going for you is your ever-so-sparkly LizzyM score then yeah, you might have issues this cycle. We'll find out, won't we!

Answered your question OP, ya welcome

 

[p0gono]

Will we ever be able to stop equating the 2015 MCAT score to the old MCAT? Seeing everyone on sdn say they have a 44 MCAT is getting a little absurd.

Haha, maybe AAMC decided to go easy on the first few administrations so as to encourage more people to sign up. They could do anything they want, honestly.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Haha, maybe AAMC decided to go easy on the first few administrations so as to encourage more people to sign up. They could do anything they want, honestly.

you should google what a percentile is

 

[LizzyM]

Would you like to share that table conversion chart?

take a MCAT in the mid-to-high 30s and the equivalent is in the neighborhood of 514-517.

 

[gyngyn]

Our dean told us, quick & dirty, a MCAT of x in the new system is about the same our average MCAT of y in the old system. No change in admission criteria... .

Same here.

 

[gyngyn]

take a MCAT in the mid-to-high 30s and the equivalent is in the neighborhood of 314-317.

514-517 (darn AMCAS).

 

[Mr. Beefy Lion]

I honestly cant stand people who humblebrag, I have a LizzyM score of ~81, but you do not see me parading around SDN posting it in every thread

The bro king of sdn.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

So LizzyM score is
GPA*10+MCAT

Why can't the lizzyM score work with the new MCAT?
for example
3.7 gpa, 515 MCAT
LizzyM score would then be 552

Just a question!
@LizzyM

 

[Lawpy]

So LizzyM score is
GPA*10+MCAT

Why can't the lizzyM score work with the new MCAT?
for example
3.7 gpa, 515 MCAT
LizzyM score would then be 552

Just a question!
@LizzyM

You need to use the @efle Percentile Transform to convert the new MCAT scores to a 45-point scale. And yes, it's the most accurate conversion available.

 

[Cotterpin]

take a MCAT in the mid-to-high 30s and the equivalent is in the neighborhood of 314-317.

514-517 should be 33-35 based on percentiles. So maybe more like low-to-mid 30's? (I mean, I would be very happy if adcoms were slightly overestimating the new MCAT, but I'm just saying...)

 

[LizzyM]

514-517 (darn AMCAS).

Yikes! thanks for catching my typo!

 

[LizzyM]

So LizzyM score is
GPA*10+MCAT

Why can't the lizzyM score work with the new MCAT?
for example
3.7 gpa, 515 MCAT
LizzyM score would then be 552

Just a question!
@LizzyM

That would have too much of the score hinging on the MCAT; the GPA*10 would account for <10% of the total score. With the old score the two sections had minimums and maximums that were roughly equal and contributing equally to the total score except for the <1% with MCAT scores >40.

 

[gyngyn]

You need to use the @efle Percentile Transform to convert the new MCAT scores to a 45-point scale. And yes, it's the most accurate conversion available.

I worked most of the morning on a conversion chart when the AAMC came out with the percentages and by the time @efle posted it, I must admit it was identical (and formatted better).

 

[LizzyM]

514-517 should be 33-35 based on percentiles. So maybe more like low-to-mid 30's? (I mean, I would be very happy if adcoms were slightly overestimating the new MCAT, but I'm just saying...)

Maybe our dean is lowballing things a little compared to where we used to be....

 

[Dr.Sticks]

That would have too much of the score hinging on the MCAT; the GPA*10 would account for <10% of the total score. With the old score the two sections had minimums and maximums that were roughly equal except for the <1% with MCAT scores >40.

Oh..
I see the whole point of the formula now!!
So why not times it by a higher number than 10 then, the gpa?
GPA*131 would result in a similar pattern

 

[md-2020]

The bolded would have been a good first post if your interest is genuine.

Even as we now understand the question, is there honestly going to be a change though....


Unless you sound idiotic in your PS or show zero outside interests I'd find it difficult to believe that adcoms can justify not interviewing an ultra competitive app. Am I wrong?

 

[Lawpy]

I worked most of the morning on a conversion chart when the AAMC came out with the percentages and by the time @efle posted it, I must admit it was identical (and formatted better).

And there we have it! A (informal) seal of approval

 

[LizzyM]

Oh..
I see the whole point of the formula now!!
So why not times it by a higher number than 10 then, the gpa?
GPA*131 would result in a similar pattern

Oy! I can't do that math in my head.... we also have no average matriculants data from schools using the new MCAT score so converting "down" to the old LizzyM score is the best way to convert and compare your stats to the schools. Remember the only point is to choose schools that won't turn you down because your scores are too low or too high (some schools don't attempt to chase applicants that are out of their league).

 

[Dr.Sticks]

Oy! I can't do that math in my head.... we also have no average matriculants data from schools using the new MCAT score so converting "down" to the old LizzyM score is the best way to convert and compare your stats to the schools. Remember the only point is to choose schools that won't turn you down because your scores are too low or too high (some schools don't attempt to chase applicants that are out of their league).

Ah; Well it's a great tool.
Of course someone with a LizzyM of 80 with 0 ECs might get rejected everywhere. But yeah, I like your method.
I'll be using it when the time comes for me to apply.

 

[efle]

I worked most of the morning on a conversion chart when the AAMC came out with the percentages and by the time @efle posted it, I must admit it was identical (and formatted better).

Aww shucks

 

[md-2020]

Aww shucks

Yo bro you should put your SDN exploits on your app next cycle

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Yo bro you should put your SDN exploits on your app next cycle

Lol, which exploits are you referring to?

Edit: But on tha real, the charts are very useful and I appreciate his humor.

 

[efle]

I appreciate his humor.

This makes two of us!

 

[WedgeDawg]

Alright guys, I have a proposed conversion for you all. The formula is:

(GPA-1)*10 + (MCAT-500) = Score

The max score (4.0/528) comes out to 58. I've gone through and made correlates between the old LizzyM score and the new one (which can be seen in the chart below). Examples:

Old 76 (i.e. 3.8/38 or 3.9/37) is new 50. This is generally the number to shoot for for top schools.

Old 73 (i.e. 3.8/35 or 3.9/34) is new 45. This is generally a good number for mid tiers while possibly being competitive for some top tiers.

Old 70 (i.e. 3.7/33 or 3.9/31) is new 40. This is generally where a "competitive" applicant for med school falls around.

Old 67 (i.e. 3.6/31 or 3.7/30) is new 35. This is around the accepted applicant median.

Old 65 (i.e. 3.6/29 or 3.7/28) is new 30. This is highly competitive for DOs and marginal for MD.

I didn't continue my color coordination after this, but you get the idea.

This score not only is easy to calculate, but provides convenient benchmarks for comparing scores to old LizzyM scores (down by 5's from 50 for new, down by 3's from 76 for old). It does break down at the MCAT extremes, but so did the old score (45/3.1 still gave you 76, for example).

Here are some spot checks:

3.7/32 is 69 old, which should be around 39ish new. Formula gives, for 3.7/512, 39, spot on!

3.4/38 is 72 old, which should be around 43-44 new. Formula gives, for 3.4/522, 46, so it's a little high, but it's also an extreme MCAT place.

3.9/32 is 71 old, which should be around 41-42 new. Formula gives, for 3.9/512, 41, right on!

3.3/36 is 69 old, which should be about 38-39 new. Formula gives, for 3.3/518, 41, so again, a little high.

This seems to work best the more "matched" the GPA and MCAT are, and gives slight favor to higher MCAT scores at the opposing extremes, but overall should be a decent estimate.

Obviously you can make it more accurate (by doing exact percentile conversions), but that would inevitably take away the simplicity of the calculation, which is the whole point. Also, because the new MCAT has multiple scores per old MCAT score, you're going to be hard pressed to find an algorithm that perfectly fits everything.

As we move away from old MCAT scores entirely, the conversion factor equality becomes far less important, and the balance between MCAT and GPA becomes the most important thing (here GPA is weighted out of 30 while MCAT is weighted out of 28, and the overall score can go as low as -32 if you have a 468 MCAT and 0.00 GPA). One MCAT point is still equivalent to 0.1 GPA points, just like the old scale.

See what you guys think!

 

[p0gono]

Alright guys, I have a proposed conversion for you all. The formula is:

(GPA-1)*10 + (MCAT-500) = Score

The max score (4.0/528) comes out to 58. I've gone through and made correlates between the old LizzyM score and the new one (which can be seen in the chart below). Examples:

Old 76 (i.e. 3.8/38 or 3.9/37) is new 50. This is generally the number to shoot for for top schools.

Old 73 (i.e. 3.8/35 or 3.9/34) is new 45. This is generally a good number for mid tiers while possibly being competitive for some top tiers.

Old 70 (i.e. 3.7/33 or 3.9/31) is new 40. This is generally where a "competitive" applicant for med school falls around.

Old 67 (i.e. 3.6/31 or 3.7/30) is new 35. This is around the accepted applicant median.

Old 65 (i.e. 3.6/29 or 3.7/28) is new 30. This is highly competitive for DOs and marginal for MD.

I didn't continue my color coordination after this, but you get the idea.

This score not only is easy to calculate, but provides convenient benchmarks for comparing scores to old LizzyM scores (down by 5's from 50 for new, down by 3's from 76 for old). It does break down at the MCAT extremes, but so did the old score (45/3.1 still gave you 76, for example).

Here are some spot checks:

3.7/32 is 69 old, which should be around 39ish new. Formula gives, for 3.7/512, 39, spot on!

3.4/38 is 72 old, which should be around 43-44 new. Formula gives, for 3.4/522, 46, so it's a little high, but it's also an extreme MCAT place.

3.9/32 is 71 old, which should be around 41-42 new. Formula gives, for 3.9/512, 41, right on!

3.3/36 is 69 old, which should be about 38-39 new. Formula gives, for 3.3/518, 41, so again, a little high.

This seems to work best the more "matched" the GPA and MCAT are, and gives slight favor to higher MCAT scores at the opposing extremes, but overall should be a decent estimate.

Obviously you can make it more accurate (by doing exact percentile conversions), but that would inevitably take away the simplicity of the calculation, which is the whole point. Also, because the new MCAT has multiple scores per old MCAT score, you're going to be hard pressed to find an algorithm that perfectly fits everything.

As we move away from old MCAT scores entirely, the conversion factor equality becomes far less important, and the balance between MCAT and GPA becomes the most important thing (here GPA is weighted out of 30 while MCAT is weighted out of 28, and the overall score can go as low as -32 if you have a 468 MCAT and 0.00 GPA). One MCAT point is still equivalent to 0.1 GPA points, just like the old scale.

See what you guys think!

What is the formula for your NEW score with the OLD MCAT?

I suppose without that this won't be super helpful until 1-2 years from now. Or did I miss something?

Edit: do we just look at the chart to find scores for schools in the msar?

 

[WedgeDawg]

What is the formula for your NEW score with the OLD MCAT?

I suppose without that this won't be super helpful until 1-2 years from now. Or did I miss something?

Edit: do we just look at the chart to find scores for schools in the msar?

@efle's conversion charts which are based upon percentile.

Edit: you can use my chart to find the new score for a school too, as I list old MCAT equivalents alongside new conversions (for all relevant scores, i.e. 38 and below).

 

[p0gono]

@efle's conversion charts which are based upon percentile.

Got it, so for each school we convert the average old MCAT to new MCAT equivalent, then compute?

For now it seems easier to just convert your own score once and use LizzyM. Just my 2¢.

But the new number scale seems cool for next year.

 

[nRomaleos]

in my opinion, i think schools are starting to favor lower LizzyM applicants from this cycle going forward.

Sorry. Your ~80 will likely sink you.

 

[a_borgia]

in my opinion, i think schools are starting to favor lower LizzyM applicants from this cycle going forward.

Sorry. Your ~80 will likely sink you.

Helpful.

 

[SoCalPipeDreamer]

Hi everyone, what should I eat for breakfast tomorrow if my LM is ~85????

 

[a_borgia]

But seriously, @WedgeDawg thanks for the new conversion tables! Those look perfect, and it'll be nice to have new metrics to match a new test.

 

[a_borgia]

Hi everyone, what should I eat for breakfast tomorrow if my LM is ~85????

This is uncalled for. Clearly other participants here were able to have a civil discussion about a topic of relevance to marginal applicants. There's really no need for mocking.

 

[Spector1]

Hi everyone, what should I eat for breakfast tomorrow if my LM is ~85????

the crushed dream flakes washed down with the tears of those unfortunate students who did not get into harvard med school.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Alright guys, I have a proposed conversion for you all. The formula is:

(GPA-1)*10 + (MCAT-500) = Score

The max score (4.0/528) comes out to 58. I've gone through and made correlates between the old LizzyM score and the new one (which can be seen in the chart below). Examples:

Old 76 (i.e. 3.8/38 or 3.9/37) is new 50. This is generally the number to shoot for for top schools.

Old 73 (i.e. 3.8/35 or 3.9/34) is new 45. This is generally a good number for mid tiers while possibly being competitive for some top tiers.

Old 70 (i.e. 3.7/33 or 3.9/31) is new 40. This is generally where a "competitive" applicant for med school falls around.

Old 67 (i.e. 3.6/31 or 3.7/30) is new 35. This is around the accepted applicant median.

Old 65 (i.e. 3.6/29 or 3.7/28) is new 30. This is highly competitive for DOs and marginal for MD.

I didn't continue my color coordination after this, but you get the idea.

This score not only is easy to calculate, but provides convenient benchmarks for comparing scores to old LizzyM scores (down by 5's from 50 for new, down by 3's from 76 for old). It does break down at the MCAT extremes, but so did the old score (45/3.1 still gave you 76, for example).

Here are some spot checks:

3.7/32 is 69 old, which should be around 39ish new. Formula gives, for 3.7/512, 39, spot on!

3.4/38 is 72 old, which should be around 43-44 new. Formula gives, for 3.4/522, 46, so it's a little high, but it's also an extreme MCAT place.

3.9/32 is 71 old, which should be around 41-42 new. Formula gives, for 3.9/512, 41, right on!

3.3/36 is 69 old, which should be about 38-39 new. Formula gives, for 3.3/518, 41, so again, a little high.

This seems to work best the more "matched" the GPA and MCAT are, and gives slight favor to higher MCAT scores at the opposing extremes, but overall should be a decent estimate.

Obviously you can make it more accurate (by doing exact percentile conversions), but that would inevitably take away the simplicity of the calculation, which is the whole point. Also, because the new MCAT has multiple scores per old MCAT score, you're going to be hard pressed to find an algorithm that perfectly fits everything.

As we move away from old MCAT scores entirely, the conversion factor equality becomes far less important, and the balance between MCAT and GPA becomes the most important thing (here GPA is weighted out of 30 while MCAT is weighted out of 28, and the overall score can go as low as -32 if you have a 468 MCAT and 0.00 GPA). One MCAT point is still equivalent to 0.1 GPA points, just like the old scale.

See what you guys think!

Approximately equal importance given to gpa and mcat score like lizzyM with easy math. Looks good!

 

[SoCalPipeDreamer]

This is uncalled for. Clearly other participants here were able to have a civil discussion about a topic of relevance to marginal applicants. There's really no need for mocking.

I apologize, I didn't make it to the civil discussion before hitting reply.
In all seriousness, with your LM you're looking at >90% probability of acceptance even if you're white or asian. https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

But the chart also shows that a handful of people with phenomenal stats didn't get in for whatever reason!

 

[steelersfan1243]

Hi everyone, what should I eat for breakfast tomorrow if my LM is ~85????

First you ask us not to humblebrag our LizzyM scores above 80 (mine is 81 so I barely fit in this catergory), now you're mocking us? How dare you

 

[md-2020]

First you ask us not to humblebrag our LizzyM scores above 80 (mine is 81 so I barely fit in this catergory), now you're mocking us? How dare you

The satirical humblebrag in a post criticizing a post satirizing humblebrags.


I like it.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Nice work WedgeDawg. I think you indicated this...our formula seems to give some preference to the MCAT score. For examples, a 33[514]/3.7 comes out a 41 and a 34[516]/3.5 also is a 41, whereas previously would have been a 70 vs a 69. Same deal for 32 [512]/3.7 vs 33[514]/3.5. Both are 39s in your formula and previously 69 vs 68. Still very close but slightly greater reward for MCAT.

As an aside, perhaps AAMC should have recommended these first couple of years in transition having schools use highest 3 out of the 4 scores as the score and/or used psych/soc for a year or two the way they used to use the essay. Not sure this year's and next year's class knew psych and soc were going to be part of the MCAT for at least their first couple of year in college but I might be wrong on that.

As another aside, and in category of unintended effects, the move to psych/soc inclusion, which is leading to schools making psych and/or soc pre-req courses actually is going to give undergrads less freedom and less choice in taking a more "diverse' range of courses. Will be even harder to major in English or Philosophy or History as a double major in a science.

 

[Strudel19]

The satirical humblebrag in a post criticizing a post satirizing humblebrags.


I like it.

Reminds me of that Leslie Nielsen/Naked Gun humor!

 

[sliceofbread136]

I think people with perfect stats generally do well with getting interviews! I could be wrong though...

 

[efle]

Alright guys, I have a proposed conversion for you all. The formula is:

(GPA-1)*10 + (MCAT-500) = Score

The max score (4.0/528) comes out to 58. I've gone through and made correlates between the old LizzyM score and the new one (which can be seen in the chart below). Examples:

Old 76 (i.e. 3.8/38 or 3.9/37) is new 50. This is generally the number to shoot for for top schools.

Old 73 (i.e. 3.8/35 or 3.9/34) is new 45. This is generally a good number for mid tiers while possibly being competitive for some top tiers.

Old 70 (i.e. 3.7/33 or 3.9/31) is new 40. This is generally where a "competitive" applicant for med school falls around.

Old 67 (i.e. 3.6/31 or 3.7/30) is new 35. This is around the accepted applicant median.

Old 65 (i.e. 3.6/29 or 3.7/28) is new 30. This is highly competitive for DOs and marginal for MD.

I didn't continue my color coordination after this, but you get the idea.

This score not only is easy to calculate, but provides convenient benchmarks for comparing scores to old LizzyM scores (down by 5's from 50 for new, down by 3's from 76 for old). It does break down at the MCAT extremes, but so did the old score (45/3.1 still gave you 76, for example).

Here are some spot checks:

3.7/32 is 69 old, which should be around 39ish new. Formula gives, for 3.7/512, 39, spot on!

3.4/38 is 72 old, which should be around 43-44 new. Formula gives, for 3.4/522, 46, so it's a little high, but it's also an extreme MCAT place.

3.9/32 is 71 old, which should be around 41-42 new. Formula gives, for 3.9/512, 41, right on!

3.3/36 is 69 old, which should be about 38-39 new. Formula gives, for 3.3/518, 41, so again, a little high.

This seems to work best the more "matched" the GPA and MCAT are, and gives slight favor to higher MCAT scores at the opposing extremes, but overall should be a decent estimate.

Obviously you can make it more accurate (by doing exact percentile conversions), but that would inevitably take away the simplicity of the calculation, which is the whole point. Also, because the new MCAT has multiple scores per old MCAT score, you're going to be hard pressed to find an algorithm that perfectly fits everything.

As we move away from old MCAT scores entirely, the conversion factor equality becomes far less important, and the balance between MCAT and GPA becomes the most important thing (here GPA is weighted out of 30 while MCAT is weighted out of 28, and the overall score can go as low as -32 if you have a 468 MCAT and 0.00 GPA). One MCAT point is still equivalent to 0.1 GPA points, just like the old scale.

See what you guys think!

Percentiles are a bit off at the high end, if you look at the bar graphs it's more like

528 - 43, 44, 45 (empty)
527 - 42 (baby bump if you zoom in and squint)
526 - 41 (first clear bump)
523, 524, 525 - 39, 40 (majority of the top half percent, no clean boundary)

not that it matters as 37+ is all statistically identically according to the wise gyngyn, but if you use this with 525+ being treated like 42+ you're going to have like 5x as many people claiming supra-90th-at-top-school LizzyMs...which may actually be an appreciable number in a place like SDN lol