Contract negotiation

[castafari]

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hey guys. Thinking of signing on to a 2 year partnership track. This is in a location where AMCs already have contracts at most of the hospitals in the cities nearby. They of course denied to me that they are considering selling out. I have noticed that the groups outside of metropolitan area in this region still independent so believe they might be telling the truth (they are more rural). Question, how to ask for contract to be modified so that in event of a buyout that as an employee I would get a share of the profit? Is this reasonable? should I hire a lawyer to do contract negotiation for me? Do most hire lawyers to negotiate things of this nature? Also interested in negotiating a percentage of tail to be covered each year and entire tail covered after 3 years. Any insight appreciated. This sounds like great opportunity. Good starting pay and 2 year partnership. Don't want to offend them or turn them off from me! Thank you

 

[castafari]

I probably should have added that if I piss off this group and I don't get the position I'm probably going to end up working for an AMC nearby for the same reimbursement! Location is important to me and the AMCs are hiring. I don't want to piss them off with contract negotiation and lose the spot-or get screwed on the contract! Any insight appreciated thanks!

 

[Consigliere]

The way the job market is now (supply > demand) you do run the risk of your future employer telling you "tough shi_t; take the contract as written or no dice." You'll have to determine if that is an acceptable level of risk. A two year partnership tract is reasonable.

 

[deleted162650]

I would consider giving them the option of either giving you a proportionate share of the buy-out money or simply refunding all your buy-in money to that point. Do it in person and not through a lawyer though you could consult with an attorney to word the clause. You want to stress you are just trying to protect yourself in these uncertain times and that if the group does not sell then the contract remains as it always has. I think this way you still come across as a team player and not a demanding entitled new grad.

 

[castafari]

When you say refund the buy in money, does this mean: partner salary minus my salary for two years total difference? The starting salary for me is close to the partner salary supposedly. Thus if they sold out it would be around 100k difference for those two years.
This is my second time job searching but the first time with fellowship training under me. The vibe I'm getting talking to groups now is they seem more desperate for cardiac trained in certain locations. I'm trying to be more picky now rather than eat shi-t on another contract

 

[mostwanted]

They are not covering entire tail from the get go? I would recommend Private Forum for contract specific advice.

 

[deleted162650]

Yes I was referring to difference between partner salary and your salary while still in the track. Obviously this can be minimal in some groups and substantial in others.

 

[castafari]

Most contracts you gotta earn tail over a few years. At least that's what I've seen

 

[Man o War]

This is just me (and geography wasn't a concern as I was willing to move just about anywhere other than a couple handfuls of high tax/high cost of living states), but I wasn't willing to do longer than a 2 year partnership track with a reasonable buy in (fellowship plus lots of experience), if I had to earn my tail that was a no go, they had to agree to inform me at the 12 month mark whether or not I would be partnering at year 2, and they had to agree to pay me back my buy in in the event they sold (a lump sum payment would also be paid out based on a formula my attorney came up with). It is possible to negotiate these things and be successful but it really depends on how bad the group needs your particular skill set. If you're really attached to a certain area, you may not want to push it, but I would strongly urge you to walk away if the contract sucks....unless it wouldn't bother you to get screwed. I've already gotten screwed once, so I wasn't going to let it happen again.

 

[cchoukal]

Look at it this way:

If the difference between track salary and partnership salary is small (as you said), you're not really risking much by taking this job as-is. If they get bought out, which could occur independent of your decision, you will not have lost a lot of buy-in.

A key piece of information is the difference between the track salary/conditions and those of the AMC. If the difference between track conditions and AMC conditions is small (you haven't said), you're not risking much either way. If you push and they demure, you're headed to the AMC; if you accept without securing a better parachute in the event of a sale, you're also headed to the AMC. How far a fall that is determines the risk.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Question, how to ask for contract to be modified so that in event of a buyout that as an employee I would get a share of the profit? Is this reasonable?

I think it is reasonable to ask. I doubt that you will get the language inserted in the contract though.

 

[Ipassgas]

I asked for similar language. I had real concerns about the job and asked for a bunch of other stuff too. The offer was rescinded. Later, I learned just how big a bullet I dodged.
I see no harm in asking.

 

[Hoya11]

It doesnt sound like a true partnership though. It sounds like they will make you a "junior" partner and someone at the top is raking in the difference and probably pulling 800-1 million per year off your earnings even as "partner". Thats why its only 2 years. If there is a noncompete Id say no way. Im guessing there paying you around 300 and the partner is 350. Real partnership from a busy practice is almost 2x that.

 

[ChiDO]

https://www.oncalladvisors.com/physician-employment-contract-reviews

http://www.contractdiagnostics.com/

 

[d9sccr]

Has anyone used these services? I'm expecting an offer sometime in the near future and would like to have it reviewed

 

[pjl]

Go in private forum with details, make them a little generic for location, and people will give you better opinions. A number of us can look at them and see if we see really scary stuff, or questionable, if you trust enough to share.
As far as a lawyer, it is best to find someone experienced in medical contracts, specifically anesthesia. Your residency may have someone they know locally. I found it valuable to chat with a lawyer in person. Small fee in grand scheme of things.

Ultimately, it comes down to trust, at some places the contract is a page, others it is 15. Some will negotiate, some won't. My contract was big and scary, and set in stone (now on hiring end, I realize how little can change). In the end every questionable thing ended up far better than I thought possible.

Don't buy a house for a year or two, keeps you from being financially pinned into a crap job.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[d9sccr]

Go in private forum with details, make them a little generic for location, and people will give you better opinions. A number of us can look at them and see if we see really scary stuff, or questionable, if you trust enough to share.
As far as a lawyer, it is best to find someone experienced in medical contracts, specifically anesthesia. Your residency may have someone they know locally. I found it valuable to chat with a lawyer in person. Small fee in grand scheme of things.

Ultimately, it comes down to trust, at some places the contract is a page, others it is 15. Some will negotiate, some won't. My contract was big and scary, and set in stone (now on hiring end, I realize how little can change). In the end every questionable thing ended up far better than I thought possible.

Don't buy a house for a year or two, keeps you from being financially pinned into a crap job.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Thanks for the advice. I've had my "application" for the private forum in for almost a year. I think everything's done but haven't heard back from Arch yet.

As for using someone locally, the job is across the country so I don't know if a local guy matters. I was going to have someone in the city review it, but wanted probably 2 lawyers to look at it.

Thanks again

 

[deleted171991]

Get a healthcare employment lawyer in the same state as the job; talk over the phone or Skype. Don't waste too much money (2 attorneys, seriously?), because chances are you won't be able to negotiate too much as a fresh grad (depending on the market). Unless they don't have other candidates, or they need some special skill of yours.

 

[Shimmy8]

I had a coresident use the contract folks from WCI. She was quite satisfied with their assessment.

FWIW, I took a job with a large group (technically an AMC but regional) and was able to at least negotiate a small sign on bonus and better relocation reimbursement. They weren't budging on salary.