Contract question

[etomidator3]

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What are your thoughts on a contract with no term, ex. 3 or 5 years? An indefinite contract.

 

[deleted126335]

What are your thoughts on a contract with no term, ex. 3 or 5 years? An indefinite contract.

It is probably an at will employee type contract with notice typically 30 -90 days. Meaning it is really nothing but a rolling series of 30-90 day contracts indefinitely.

 

[etomidator3]

Is there any danger in not having a term defined ???

 

[deleted126335]

Is there any danger in not having a term defined ???

Not a lawyer, but if it is what I think it is, it confers lots of advantage to the employer. I suspect that they can terminate you at anytime for no reason or simply renegotiate a new contract after the appropriate notice. Don't like it? it pobably has a noncompete which may or not be enforceable. You MUST have an attorney representing you review it and explain your rights.

 

[aneftp]

Is there any danger in not having a term defined ???

The shorter the better unless there are built in pay raises or performance incentives.

Who is paying ur tail?

With clause or without clause termination and who pays tail in event of without clause termination.

1099 or W2?

 

[ssmallz]

Is there any danger in not having a term defined ???

Usually it's not a big deal as long as you know this in advance and make sure your compensation is commensurate with this type of employment situation which is more of a locums style employment then a partnership.

1) There should not be any non compete for outside hospitals for any reason. You may have to sign a non compete for practicing anesthesia for that specific hospital or something about you not bidding against the group for their contract but I think that's a reasonable concession

2) You should be paid on par with other providers. If this is fee for service you should be getting the same or a similar blend to the other partners from day 1. If it's salary based, make sure you're getting the same base and call stipends as others

3) If they are providing malpractice who covers the tail or is it occurrence based?

4) Understand that you are always 90 days away from losing your job, act and practice accordingly

 

[deleted126335]

Usually it's not a big deal as long as you know this in advance and make sure your compensation is commensurate with this type of employment situation which is more of a locums style employment then a partnership.

1) There should not be any non compete for outside hospitals for any reason. You may have to sign a non compete for practicing anesthesia for that specific hospital or something about you not bidding against the group for their contract but I think that's a reasonable concession

2) You should be paid on par with other providers. If this is fee for service you should be getting the same or a similar blend to the other partners from day 1. If it's salary based, make sure you're getting the same base and call stipends as others

3) If they are providing malpractice who covers the tail or is it occurrence based?

4) Understand that you are always 90 days away from losing your job, act and practice accordingly

Noncompete contracts (for a geographic radius) are valuable business assets for the employer. They provide tremendous leverage at contract renegotiation time. Love em as an owner. Hate em as an employee.

 

[Ipassgas]

In the modern world, length of term and cause are really irrelevant. Even if you're an equity partner, if they want you out, you're out. You create a hostile work environment. Your practice is unsafe/not in line with their practice. They're suspicious of substance abuse. You ignore pages (that may out may not have been sent.) You sexually harassed someone (anyone) and are now a liability. You got a speeding/parking ticket, and violated the.moral terpitude clause. They only question is how hard is it for them? Could you win a lawsuit if you were dismissed for one of these "causes"? Maybe. 3 years later. The open ended contract just makes it easier for them. There is no shortage of people who "weren't a good fit" 3 years into a 4 year partnership track, or the group was sold to an AMC, thus no more partners. If your biggest concern is the contract term, talk with them about it.

 

[deleted126335]

In the modern world, length of term and cause are really irrelevant. Even if you're an equity partner, if they want you out, you're out. You create a hostile work environment. Your practice is unsafe/not in line with their practice. They're suspicious of substance abuse. You ignore pages (that may out may not have been sent.) You sexually harassed someone (anyone) and are now a liability. You got a speeding/parking ticket, and violated the.moral terpitude clause. They only question is how hard is it for them? Could you win a lawsuit if you were dismissed for one of these "causes"? Maybe. 3 years later. The open ended contract just makes it easier for them. There is no shortage of people who "weren't a good fit" 3 years into a 4 year partnership track, or the group was sold to an AMC, thus no more partners. If your biggest concern is the contract term, talk with them about it.

Unfortunately true. Becoming more so.

 

[ssmallz]

Noncompete contracts (for a geographic radius) are valuable business assets for the employer. They provide tremendous leverage at contract renegotiation time. Love em as an owner. Hate em as an employee.

With this type of contract there is no way I would sign any sort of non compete. As others have said this is essentially a rolling 90 day employment contract. There's no partnership offer and no guarantee of future employment. In this scenario, the boss/group could let you go w/out reason as long as 90 days notice is given. The boss/group has enough leverage as is so there's no reason to they should insist on a noncompete. If this was a partnership track w/stipulations about termination and such then I would concede a non compete in the right situation. Otherwise, this should be evaluated as a locums gig and as such you should be able to go elsewhere when your services are no longer needed or if you would like to find extra work

 

[deleted126335]

With this type of contract there is no way I would sign any sort of non compete. As others have said this is essentially a rolling 90 day employment contract. There's no partnership offer and no guarantee of future employment. In this scenario, the boss/group could let you go w/out reason as long as 90 days notice is given. The boss/group has enough leverage as is so there's no reason to they should insist on a noncompete. If this was a partnership track w/stipulations about termination and such then I would concede a non compete in the right situation. Otherwise, this should be evaluated as a locums gig and as such you should be able to go elsewhere when your services are no longer needed or if you would like to find extra work

Depends on the market. Almost everyone pushes for whatever they can get. Currently employers can ask for more and give less than in the past few years. Merciless, ruthless capitalism.

 

[shopsteward]

In the modern world, length of term and cause are really irrelevant. Even if you're an equity partner, if they want you out, you're out. You create a hostile work environment. Your practice is unsafe/not in line with their practice. They're suspicious of substance abuse. You ignore pages (that may out may not have been sent.) You sexually harassed someone (anyone) and are now a liability. You got a speeding/parking ticket, and violated the.moral terpitude clause. They only question is how hard is it for them? Could you win a lawsuit if you were dismissed for one of these "causes"? Maybe. 3 years later. The open ended contract just makes it easier for them. There is no shortage of people who "weren't a good fit" 3 years into a 4 year partnership track, or the group was sold to an AMC, thus no more partners. If your biggest concern is the contract term, talk with them about it.

This.

The first question to ask with any contract is: can I do business with these people?

If it's just a matter of money (eg buying goods), all you need to know is that they are good for the money/product/service.

If you are going to have an ongoing relationship, such as a working situation, you need to be able to trust them with your money (ie they won't take your cheap labour and then chuck you out just before partnership) but also on a personal level (ie these are people with whom you can have a working relationship of trust and friendship).

It's only if you are pretty sure about the personal relationship that you contemplate the terms of the contract. And then you make sure that you have hammered out everything that is important to you (a lawyer will be able to spot whether the terms match up to what you expect and need), because even the best of business and personal relationships can go wrong, and if you have a good, clear contract setting out all the issues, it will minimise the damage to all concerned.

 

[Gas you down]

It is probably an at will employee type contract with notice typically 30 -90 days. Meaning it is really nothing but a rolling series of 30-90 day contracts indefinitely.

this a good thread for new attendings. this sort of thing is common in contracts with AMC's.