Controversial Issue advice please

[AnoniMuss]

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I have a somewhat controversial situation. I graduated undergrad with a bio degree, w. honors and a 3.65 cumulative gpa. The science gpa im not sure...but i think its a bit lower.

Now my main problem is the MCAT, I got a 23 on my first attempt. With somewhat even scores all across. The second and third attempt I got a 28, with the same exact score on all three sections. (12V, 9B, 7P).

Now for the first attempt. I can explain that I foolishly took it without too much preparation. The second time I took the exam, I was much more serious, and this is when I realized I had a real problem. I took the second exam after I had graduated undergrad. I would make a schedule everyday of the things I had to cover,and somehow I would never be able to finish no matter how much I told myself I had to study and the my exam date was drawing close. Instead of the 8 hours a day that I planned out, I could get no more than 2 hours a day done.

I realized I may have a problem, and I finally went to a doctor who diagnosed me with ADD. My high score on the verbal and my lower score on the other reflected the doctors report, that I was above average in verbal reasoning, but had a hard time working with numbers. with my second MCAT score I applied to a few schools and had no luck in getting in. This summer I again attempted to study hoping that maybe with more study time and discipline I would be able to pull of at least a 30. No such luck.

To better my chances, I am now doing a master's program at Columbia, and applying again this year.

I do not want to lose one more year, and I am wondering if I should mention my struggle with ADD in my secondaries? I know that it is a controversial issue. And the fact that my GPA in college isn't so bad makes it an even more tricky issue. Since my add is not so severe, I was able to do very well in high school and somewhat well in college, but when it comes to studying on such an intense schedule requiring massive concentration, that is when I realized that I could no longer get by. My handicap was now a real debilitating factor.

Now that I am back in school, I have insurance, and decided to get medication, I am able to cope with a rigorous 17 credit masters program, and it has made a huge difference in my life as far as motivation, ability to handle masses of information, and just being able to follow through with my work and goals.

Can someone offer me any advice on how to proceed? I don't want to lose another year? Can anyone else relate to or have any experience with this situation?

 

[thecleaner]

If I were in your situation I would not mention it at all. Why give them another reason to turn you away. I'm also guessing that most people would be uncomfortable having a physician with ADD. If you can find a way to work it to your advantage then go ahead. I wouldn't divulge any medical information or disabilities that I may or may not have.

 

[NTF]

You know a 28 isn't a bad MCAT score. You're really only lacking in the physics section. You should adjust your school selection, include DO schools, and boost the other parts of your app.

But definitely continue to address your issues with test-taking and difficulty studying. M1 & M2 is a long test-taking and intensive study marathon. So I would take your time and deal with the more pressing and important issue of making sure your ADD is controlled enough that you can succeed in med school.

Don't stress out about the MCAT. If you can get at least an 8 on PS you're probably competitive for a lot of DO schools and some MD schools if you have strong ECs,LORs, etc. And don't get stressed out about getting in this year or the next. Med school will be here when you're ready.

And just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't use your struggles with ADD. Generally struggles are best used in the app to show how you overcame things. Like "my gpa was low sophomore year because XYZ, but I overcame them and did well junior and senior year."

 

[gman33]

Do not mention ADD. It will not do anything to help your chances and may hurt (although no school would ever admit that).

Make sure you have this issue well under control before applying to med school. The master's program may seem hard, but unless you are in a SMP taking a full med school load, there is nothing to prepare you for the amount of work you will need to get done.
You have a ton of standardized tests in front of you in med school, so make sure you are able to perform well on them.

If you have this all under control, then just prep like crazy for the MCAT and try again next year.

 

[sgtbrushes]

Do not mention ADD. It will not do anything to help your chances and may hurt (although no school would ever admit that).

This.

Discrimination occurs every day, and I'm not just talking about medical school ADCOMs. And taking the MCAT a third time after giving yourself 6 months of study time isn't too bad of an idea. Delaying matriculation by one year is better than not ever getting in.

 

[CZDreaMD]

I too am in the same boat as you...I did relatively well in high school and college but then realized that I couldn't study as well as others around me....ADD diagnosis here too as a 26 year old adult. I don't plan on telling ADCOMs about my struggles especially since I have not received any special treatment at school (extended testing, etc...). I wish that people could understand that having ADD is not going to make me a worse doctor, I just need to approach studying a bit differently....I'm going to keep plugging away and I hope that it will all pay off in the end....

 

[BennieBlanco]

I have a somewhat controversial situation. I graduated undergrad with a bio degree, w. honors and a 3.65 cumulative gpa. The science gpa im not sure...but i think its a bit lower.

Now my main problem is the MCAT, I got a 23 on my first attempt. With somewhat even scores all across. The second and third attempt I got a 28, with the same exact score on all three sections. (12V, 9B, 7P).

Now for the first attempt. I can explain that I foolishly took it without too much preparation. The second time I took the exam, I was much more serious, and this is when I realized I had a real problem. I took the second exam after I had graduated undergrad. I would make a schedule everyday of the things I had to cover,and somehow I would never be able to finish no matter how much I told myself I had to study and the my exam date was drawing close. Instead of the 8 hours a day that I planned out, I could get no more than 2 hours a day done.

I realized I may have a problem, and I finally went to a doctor who diagnosed me with ADD. My high score on the verbal and my lower score on the other reflected the doctors report, that I was above average in verbal reasoning, but had a hard time working with numbers. with my second MCAT score I applied to a few schools and had no luck in getting in. This summer I again attempted to study hoping that maybe with more study time and discipline I would be able to pull of at least a 30. No such luck.

To better my chances, I am now doing a master's program at Columbia, and applying again this year.

I do not want to lose one more year, and I am wondering if I should mention my struggle with ADD in my secondaries? I know that it is a controversial issue. And the fact that my GPA in college isn't so bad makes it an even more tricky issue. Since my add is not so severe, I was able to do very well in high school and somewhat well in college, but when it comes to studying on such an intense schedule requiring massive concentration, that is when I realized that I could no longer get by. My handicap was now a real debilitating factor.

Now that I am back in school, I have insurance, and decided to get medication, I am able to cope with a rigorous 17 credit masters program, and it has made a huge difference in my life as far as motivation, ability to handle masses of information, and just being able to follow through with my work and goals.

Can someone offer me any advice on how to proceed? I don't want to lose another year? Can anyone else relate to or have any experience with this situation?

NO WAY.

What is the point of telling them you have ADD?

You: Hey Med School, I had poor performance in school because of ADD.

Adcom: Oh, ok. How does that work.

You: I have trouble focusing so it made my performance bad. It is biological (*read*permanent).

Adcom: Oh, ok. So you have trouble focusing and you want to come to a school where you need to focus and learn a lot?

You: I can see your point.

 

[BennieBlanco]

This.

Discrimination occurs every day, and I'm not just talking about medical school ADCOMs. And taking the MCAT a third time after giving yourself 6 months of study time isn't too bad of an idea. Delaying matriculation by one year is better than not ever getting in.

True.

 

[AnoniMuss]

NO WAY.

What is the point of telling them you have ADD?

You: Hey Med School, I had poor performance in school because of ADD.

Adcom: Oh, ok. How does that work.

You: I have trouble focusing so it made my performance bad. It is biological (*read*permanent).

Adcom: Oh, ok. So you have trouble focusing and you want to come to a school where you need to focus and learn a lot?

You: I can see your point.

The thing is now that I am taking medication, I am able to function well. I am doing well in the Master's program at Columbia, and I can get things done. Its made a big difference. I was hoping that they would be able to see how well I am doing in a grad school level now that I have treatment. The medication has in a way leveled the playing field for me. Also I have taken the MCATS three times already. This is why I am wondering whether I should I should explain to them why I performed the way I did. I had the same exact score on my second and third tries.

 

[EdLongshanks]

The thing is now that I am taking medication, I am able to function well. I am doing well in the Master's program at Columbia, and I can get things done. Its made a big difference. I was hoping that they would be able to see how well I am doing in a grad school level now that I have treatment. The medication has in a way leveled the playing field for me. Also I have taken the MCATS three times already. This is why I am wondering whether I should I should explain to them why I performed the way I did. I had the same exact score on my second and third tries.

I'm sure that there are polite ways to say this, but you might miss the point in the politeness.

If you meet an adcom who thinks like me then he will reject you with a note to never reconsider. I don't think that you belong in med school.

 

[mzblue]

Really?! I'm sure the OP is looking for everyones honest opinions but as someone who's beaten the odds time and time and again, i never let anyone define who i am or what my limits are. No i don't have any disabilities and i'm not a mediocre student. There are people with 27 MCAT scores that got into med school. Did they have ADD? i didn't care to ask. Did they graduate, yes. Maybe OP can't focus to study for tests like the MCAT. He/She'll have to be the one asking his/herself whether he can make it through the rigorous USMLE. Does the OP belong to med school? I find it quite interesting that a stranger who only knows about the OP through these posts can make such a judgement. Indeed, i find it fascinating!

I'm sure that there are polite ways to say this, but you might miss the point in the politeness.

If you meet an adcom who thinks like me then he will reject you with a note to never reconsider. I don't think that you belong in med school.

 

[sindadel]

What a ridiculous post from EdLongShanks.

If the OP had poor vision (uncorrected) and did poorly in all his/her academic coursework and then got glasses at the age of 26 and so was able to, you know, SEE the lecture notes, READ the textbook etc., it would be very reasonable to see a step-change in academic performance. In fact, it's a testament to the OP's high abilities that he/she was able to compensate for so long, delaying diagnosis.

OP - unlike everyone else here, I don't think writing about your ADD would be the kiss of death to your app. Maybe hedge your bets by NOT mentioning it at your safest schools, so as not to potentially jeapoardize your best shot at admission. I think a secondary essay about adversity, staying positive and focussing on what you have learned about delayed diagnosis, the magic of effective therapy, the absolute night/day difference in your life could be quite powerful. At least at my med school, preceptors are quite concerned about impressing on us the torture of delayed diagnosis and the miracle of correct therapy.

Best of luck to you, in life and in med school admissions.

 

[AnnaBananax]

Go talk to Megan Rigney at the Columbia Pre-Med office. She worked miracles for me following my botched application cycle and helped me get into my top 3 programs. I would do WHATEVER she says, she is EXCELLENT at her job.

 

[BennieBlanco]

The thing is now that I am taking medication, I am able to function well. I am doing well in the Master's program at Columbia, and I can get things done. Its made a big difference. I was hoping that they would be able to see how well I am doing in a grad school level now that I have treatment. The medication has in a way leveled the playing field for me. Also I have taken the MCATS three times already. This is why I am wondering whether I should I should explain to them why I performed the way I did. I had the same exact score on my second and third tries.

I guess it all depends on how you talk about it. Everything isn't always so cut and dry.

If you talk for 10-20 min in the interview and you are asked, "why did you perform poorly on the MCAT?" (or something like that) and you say:

"One thing that helped is I was diagnosed with ADD a year ago, my testing focus increased greatly since I began taking medication for my condition..."

and DONE. Not one more word about ADD or focus or anything. Then you have mentioned it, let them know that it likely affected your performance and it is corrected.

If you talk about it more than just for 10 seconds then you come off as a person making excuses and putting asterisks on things. Brief and done.

 

[njbmd]

I have a somewhat controversial situation. I graduated undergrad with a bio degree, w. honors and a 3.65 cumulative gpa. The science gpa im not sure...but i think its a bit lower.

Now my main problem is the MCAT, I got a 23 on my first attempt. With somewhat even scores all across. The second and third attempt I got a 28, with the same exact score on all three sections. (12V, 9B, 7P).

Now for the first attempt. I can explain that I foolishly took it without too much preparation. The second time I took the exam, I was much more serious, and this is when I realized I had a real problem. I took the second exam after I had graduated undergrad. I would make a schedule everyday of the things I had to cover,and somehow I would never be able to finish no matter how much I told myself I had to study and the my exam date was drawing close. Instead of the 8 hours a day that I planned out, I could get no more than 2 hours a day done.

I realized I may have a problem, and I finally went to a doctor who diagnosed me with ADD. My high score on the verbal and my lower score on the other reflected the doctors report, that I was above average in verbal reasoning, but had a hard time working with numbers. with my second MCAT score I applied to a few schools and had no luck in getting in. This summer I again attempted to study hoping that maybe with more study time and discipline I would be able to pull of at least a 30. No such luck.

To better my chances, I am now doing a master's program at Columbia, and applying again this year.

I do not want to lose one more year, and I am wondering if I should mention my struggle with ADD in my secondaries? I know that it is a controversial issue. And the fact that my GPA in college isn't so bad makes it an even more tricky issue. Since my add is not so severe, I was able to do very well in high school and somewhat well in college, but when it comes to studying on such an intense schedule requiring massive concentration, that is when I realized that I could no longer get by. My handicap was now a real debilitating factor.

Now that I am back in school, I have insurance, and decided to get medication, I am able to cope with a rigorous 17 credit masters program, and it has made a huge difference in my life as far as motivation, ability to handle masses of information, and just being able to follow through with my work and goals.

Can someone offer me any advice on how to proceed? I don't want to lose another year? Can anyone else relate to or have any experience with this situation?

You have two things that you need to accomplish: First, you need to complete your graduate degree and make sure that your graduate GPA is well above 3.6 or it becomes a negative instead of a positive. You can't drop out and apply for medical school. The second thing is that you are likely going to have to retake the MCAT because of the age of MCAT scores (more than three years old) depending on how long it's going to take you to complete your masters degree. If this becomes the case, you need to score above that 28 in order for your "now treated and controlled ADD" statements to be a positive thing. If you take the MCAT a fourth time under any conditions, you have to beat that last 28 or the MCAT become a huge liability.

 

[EdLongshanks]

What a ridiculous post from EdLongShanks.

If the OP had poor vision (uncorrected) and did poorly in all his/her academic coursework and then got glasses at the age of 26 and so was able to, you know, SEE the lecture notes, READ the textbook etc., it would be very reasonable to see a step-change in academic performance. In fact, it's a testament to the OP's high abilities that he/she was able to compensate for so long, delaying diagnosis.
.

I'm making a judgment based on incomplete knowledge. That's what we do when we do when we write on bulletin boards. We express opinions. In my opinion "ADD" (or "Hyperactivity" as we used to call it) is a trash diagnosis.

I remember when "hyperactivity" was first introduced as a common diagnosis in children. This was back in the early 70's. Many, many people told my mother that I ought to be treated for it. Some folks wanted to drug every child who was either behaviorally challenged or didn't fit the cultural norms.

Everyone can control their behavior. A person who wants to study will find a way to study that fits his personality. If he has to use drugs to change his personality, or if he lacks the self-discipline to study when he'd rather run in circles, then he doesn't need to have an MD or DO after his name.

If a person lacked the self-discipline to exercise and therefore took amphetemines to help him, I doubt that someone would consider him a good candidate for a physical fitness award.

I hear that many, if not most, medical students are on Ritalin because it helps them increase their academic performance. I doubt that this is a positive development

That's my opinion and that's my judgement. If you have a different opinion and can offer good reasons to back it up, then I will be glad to reconsider.

 

[sumstorm]

Maybe OP can't focus to study for tests like the MCAT. He/She'll have to be the one asking his/herself whether he can make it through the rigorous USMLE. Does the OP belong to med school? I find it quite interesting that a stranger who only knows about the OP through these posts can make such a judgement. Indeed, i find it fascinating!

The ad coms job isn't to make the best decisions for each individual. It is to make the best decisions for the institution. Realisticly, that means selecting individuals that the ad com fully believes will successfully complete the program and contribute to the field.

Think about it this way, if the OP can't focus to study for the MCAT, how will he handle heavy exams each week?

I am not saying the OP can't mention it, or can't get into med school, or can't make it through med school. I am saying that the very MOST I would ever say is 'had a medical issue that has been fully resolved as reflected by my coursework from X to Y resulting in a 4.0 with a demanding Z credit schedule.'

Realisticly, it is important to understand that any time there are a lot of applicants for a small number of positions, it is easier to start the process by eliminating candidates before trying to seperate excellent candidates into acceptances, wait lists, and rejections. It is important not to provide the rule out if it is possible to avoid it. That is true whether one is applying for a bank tellers position or a med school position; when demand excedes supply, minimize rule outs.

 

[sumstorm]

Everyone can control their behavior. A person who wants to study will find a way to study that fits his personality. If he has to use drugs to change his personality, or if he lacks the self-discipline to study when he'd rather run in circles, then he doesn't need to have an MD or DO after his name.

If a person lacked the self-discipline to exercise and therefore took amphetemines to help him, I doubt that someone would consider him a good candidate for a physical fitness award.

I agree, controlling BEHAVIOR is possible. I can stop myself from running around a classroom, especially if I take a 2 hour run before each hour in the classroom. Please point me to any program in any vet or med school that will enable me to do that? As a vet, I can have a career where I will never be expected to spend endless days in classrooms for 9 + hours each day for months at a time. Vet school is NOT a good indicator of what practicing vet medicine is like, and I assume med school isn't a good indicator of what practicing medicine is like.

Here is what I can't stop; my mind slinging off into tangents of research possibilities for every topic brought up; resulting in missing some detail of the lecture at hand. The fact that physiologically after sitting for 4 hours, the muscles in my legs literally twitch from inactivity.

Your comparison to exercise doesn't make sense; in todays world, top athletes sleep in oxygen tents, pay for chefs/trainers/massage therapists, all to supplement their performance.

Where does the line get drawn? Am I a good doctor in the future if I can sit still in a class all day (which I won't be doing as a doctor?) Or is it only if Mom and Dad can afford to pay for the best education starting before elementary school? Or the very expensive MCAT prep classes? How is any of that fair or right, or not changing the ability of the student to sit themselves down and focus without assistance?

For me, my medication does not change my personality, it enables me to sit in a class room without my legs spasming, with my mind tangenting towards every new idea, without needing to run for an hour before every class. The difference isn't personality; my instructors will tell you they enjoy me more off of meds because I have the ability to discuss, at great length, infinite potential research options, and I get more done than any person they know (the meds do dampen that a bit...slow it down.) However, they appreciate that one meds, I can rest on my ass for 9 hours without twitching, bounching, etc. I speak slower and more clearly. My writing is clearer because I go far slower. If my meds are a problem, caffeine should be banned as well; it is a stimulant that affects performance and behavior, but we all seem to accept that it is ok. BTW, for me, stimulants, including Ritalin and caffeine, make me sleepy.

I am extremly fortunate to have an instructor who is very ADHD...and he admits that lectureing is better for him than sitting and listening to a lecture... and he still gets sidetracked, but is an excellent professor because of his unending energy and enthusiasm (the same energy and enthusiasm that means he wouldn't sit still for a lecture.) Oh, he also managed his ADHD through running; 12-20 miles EVERY day.

I am not saying it isn't overly diagnosed or that abuse of stimulants doesn't happen, but I strongly disagree that a doctor does the same things a student does...just as an instructor doesn't do the same things a student does. I successfully managed my career for 10 years without treatment, and I did use other options when in undergrad, but I accept that my work will be far different than my education, and the challenges I face in one will not be the same as the challenges I face in the other.

In other words, there will never be another point in my life when I start passively sitting in lectures from 8am and continue till 6pm M-F, then study most of the night. Oddly enough, I don't need meds at night, on weekends, or through finals.....just to sit on my ass for 9 hours a day. Hmmm...what is one of the top health issues in our country? sedentary lifestyle....hmmm....

 

[sumstorm]

If the OP had poor vision (uncorrected) and did poorly in all his/her academic coursework and then got glasses at the age of 26 and so was able to, you know, SEE the lecture notes, READ the textbook etc., it would be very reasonable to see a step-change in academic performance. In fact, it's a testament to the OP's high abilities that he/she was able to compensate for so long, delaying diagnosis.

Ummm....seriously you wouldn't wonder why it took 21 years for the person who had poor vision to the extent that they couldn't read to get glasses, especially if the vision issue was throughout their academic career? I wouldn't want that student in my class because they are lacking a basic ability to function in day to day life and we already have enough students who lack common (or uncommon) sense!

 

[EdLongshanks]

I am not saying it isn't overly diagnosed or that abuse of stimulants doesn't happen, but I strongly disagree that a doctor does the same things a student does...just as an instructor doesn't do the same things a student does. I successfully managed my career for 10 years without treatment, and I did use other options when in undergrad, but I accept that my work will be far different than my education, and the challenges I face in one will not be the same as the challenges I face in the other. ....

If Ritalin improved my quality of life significantly, I would take it. My problem is not with people who use Ritalin properly, it is with the people who use ADD as an excuse for underperformance. Ritalin abuse is a separate issue and one that I don't care for, but I place in the same category as regular alcohol intake and cigarette smoking.

But this "I'm ADD" whining really ticks me off. And the ADD folks have twins in the "mental slowness is a disability" crowd. I once had a fellow student who used the Americans with Disabilities act to require the school to let her take tests with flash cards in hand. She wants to be a doctor.

 

[BennieBlanco]

If ritalin improved my quality of life significantly, I would take it. My problem is not with people who use Ritalin properly, it is with the people who use ADD as an excuse for underperformance. Ritalin abuse is a separate issue and one that I don't care for, but I place in the same category as regular alcohol intake and cigarette smoking.

But this "I'm ADD" whining really ticks me off. And the ADD folks have twins in the "mental slowness is a disability" crowd. I once had a fellow student who used the Americans with Disabilities act to require the school to let her take tests with flash cards in hand. She wants to be a doctor.

lol. Yeah, I knew a guy who had "ADD" and the guy was mentally as quick as I was in Ochem. He got around double time for tests, we both were in the top 1 or 2% both semesters of Ochem out of a few hundred students BUT I think there should be an asterisk, double time on a test where every second counts seems excessive.

Whenever we worked together he could pick up on things just as fast as anyone in the class, if not faster.