Cooper MEDICAL SCHOOL - NJ'S NEWEST MED SCHOOL - DIVERSITY DRIVEN

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mmcintosh

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Hi All,
Cooper Medical School in Camden, NJ
NJ's Newest Medical School. Is finally taking in their first class in 2012. From what I have read they are REALLY DIVERSITY DRIVEN. HERE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS:

Pre-requisites

Required Courses

Biology or Zoology (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
General/Inorganic Chemistry (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
English or Composition 1 semester/3 credits

Recommended Courses:laugh:
Following are Recommended Courses ONLY- Spoke to the Dir. of admissions today and she said not req'd and you can take at your own discretion and she said that if you think it will help you then take them. She mentioned that it has not been proven that these courses will make you a more successful med student. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE NEW THINKING OF THIS SCHOOL. IT JUST FEELS RIGHT TO ME. I WILL TAKE ADDITIONAL COURSES FOR MY OWN REFERENCE BUT FEEL GREAT THAT THEY ARE BEING SO CANDID ABOUT FACTS. WOW....:)

Physics (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
Organic Chemistry (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
Behavioral Science 1 semester/3 credits
Ethics 1 semester/3 credits
Biostatistics 1 semester/3 credits
Humanities 2 semesters/6 credits
Biochemistry 1 semester/3 credits
Spanish 2 semesters/6 credits

Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT)

Every applicant must take the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) of the Association of American Medical Colleges. Preferably, this test will be taken in the spring of the year before application; however, it must be taken no later than September of the year in which the candidate applies. For the entering class of 2012, CMSRU will consider applicants who have taken the MCAT between January 2009 and September 2011.

Clinical and Community Experiences

There is no minimum number of clinical observation or volunteer hours for applicants to CMSRU. However, CMSRU is a mission-driven institution. From the beginning, we have built CMSRU upon the idea that Camden is our classroom and our home, and we will strive to improve the health and well-being of those we serve as we teach the art and science of medicine and its delivery. For this reason, we will highly value applicants who have shown evidence of community-consciousness and social responsibility. We value experiences that increase the understanding of diversity and the role it plays in practicing medicine.

here is the link. http://www.rowan.edu/coopermed/
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1) Is this for real?
2) Being from Jersey, Camden still terrifies me. Couldn't pay me enough money or discount my tuition enough to get me to live there for 4 yrs. Philly isn't that great either...
3) Is this for real?!?
4) (imo) Having just finished 1st year, it's terrifying to think of having done the year without the basic prereqs (physics included...no comment on the necessity of orgo)...let alone to be in a class with a large number of people without a basic background in the sciences. Granted, NJ needed another med school, so I'm sure there will be spillover from the UMDNJs, but still...part of the benefits of 1st yr was having a class to study with who had diverse backgrounds - including academic backgrounds. Idk if I like where these loose reqs might lead the school...

just my two cents though
 
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Nymphicus said:
Just commenting on the difficulty of the MCAT with no physics or ochem background.
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of course you would need the additional prereqs for the MCAT and such. However, NO ONE HAS QUESTIONED the dozens of other Med Schools in other states that have the same model. for example: MT. Sinai in NYC " HUMANITIES TO MEDICINE PROGRAM" that states" Science courses need not be completed before application to the program". RUTGERS BA/MD Program on both campuses that don't even require ANY PRE-REQS initially for acceptance to Med School. There are several other "EARLY ACCEPTANCE PROGRAMS OF THIS TYPE" that don't even use the MCAT at all for acceptance but state it is required to complete before entrance but not acceptance. I like the focus and forward thinking model. Any Med School you go to, you will have to make the effort to be successful and that is not always dependent upon ORGANIC CHEMISTRY AND PHYSICS. I will complete physics 2 this fall and already know that the MCAT is my last look at physics. Still cannot see the correlation or relevance for med school.
 
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mmcintosh said:
of course you would need the additional prereqs for the MCAT and such. However, NO ONE HAS QUESTIONED the dozens of other Med Schools in other states that have the same model. for example: MT. Sinai in NYC " HUMANITIES TO MEDICINE PROGRAM" that states" Science courses need not be completed before application to the program". RUTGERS BA/MD Program on both campuses that don't even require ANY PRE-REQS initially for acceptance to Med School. There are several other "EARLY ACCEPTANCE PROGRAMS OF THIS TYPE" that don't even use the MCAT at all for acceptance but state it is required to complete before entrance but not acceptance. I like the focus and forward thinking model. Any Med School you go to, you will have to make the effort to be successful and that is not always dependent upon ORGANIC CHEMISTRY AND PHYSICS. I will complete physics 2 this fall and already know that the MCAT is my last look at physics. Still cannot see the correlation or relevance for med school.
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You have no idea now naive a statement that is. I thought that too until my post bacc stated discussing hemodynamics...physics is very very relevant my friend
 
I agree with docdonny - physics is very relevant, especially in physio. Not sure I'd go so far as to say 2 semesters is necessary (though, I really loved physics - still do!).

I think it's one thing to have early acceptance programs with a limited number of slots in the incoming class reserved for those people. It's another thing to base your entire school structure on an unproven philosophy...

..and it's in Camden!!

(I remember hearing about the Mt Sinai prgm, but I do believe it is a trial run, a pilot study if you will, to see the merits of this claim. And I know far too much about Rutgers and UMDNJ to comment on that prgm...let's just say, I don't believe in it or either institution)
 
PinkIvy08 said:
I agree with docdonny - physics is very relevant, especially in physio. Not sure I'd go so far as to say 2 semesters is necessary (though, I really loved physics - still do!).

I think it's one thing to have early acceptance programs with a limited number of slots in the incoming class reserved for those people. It's another thing to base your entire school structure on an unproven philosophy...

..and it's in Camden!!

(I remember hearing about the Mt Sinai prgm, but I do believe it is a trial run, a pilot study if you will, to see the merits of this claim. And I know far too much about Rutgers and UMDNJ to comment on that prgm...let's just say, I don't believe in it or either institution)
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Not sure what you have against CAMDEN... but people that live there need to live somewhere too. At any rate, no one is discounting the entire relevance of physics. However MS1 is not entirely based on PHYSICS...,Let's be realistic and not pretentious. Also I believe that they have a very solid curriculum planned. the outline is very rigorous. NO CAT WALK......I salute an institution that dares to care for the poor and really endeavor to seek after the best students not SCORES...
 
mmcintosh said:
Hi All,
Cooper Medical School in Camden, NJ
NJ's Newest Medical School. Is finally taking in their first class in 2012. From what I have read they are REALLY DIVERSITY DRIVEN. HERE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS:

Pre-requisites

Required Courses

Biology or Zoology (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
General/Inorganic Chemistry (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
English or Composition 1 semester/3 credits

Recommended Courses:laugh:
Following are Recommended Courses ONLY- Spoke to the Dir. of admissions today and she said not req'd and you can take at your own discretion and she said that if you think it will help you then take them. She mentioned that it has not been proven that these courses will make you a more successful med student. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE NEW THINKING OF THIS SCHOOL. IT JUST FEELS RIGHT TO ME. I WILL TAKE ADDITIONAL COURSES FOR MY OWN REFERENCE BUT FEEL GREAT THAT THEY ARE BEING SO CANDID ABOUT FACTS. WOW....:)

Physics (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
Organic Chemistry (with lab) 2 semesters/8 credits
Behavioral Science 1 semester/3 credits
Ethics 1 semester/3 credits
Biostatistics 1 semester/3 credits
Humanities 2 semesters/6 credits
Biochemistry 1 semester/3 credits
Spanish 2 semesters/6 credits

Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT)

Every applicant must take the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) of the Association of American Medical Colleges. Preferably, this test will be taken in the spring of the year before application; however, it must be taken no later than September of the year in which the candidate applies. For the entering class of 2012, CMSRU will consider applicants who have taken the MCAT between January 2009 and September 2011.

Clinical and Community Experiences

There is no minimum number of clinical observation or volunteer hours for applicants to CMSRU. However, CMSRU is a mission-driven institution. From the beginning, we have built CMSRU upon the idea that Camden is our classroom and our home, and we will strive to improve the health and well-being of those we serve as we teach the art and science of medicine and its delivery. For this reason, we will highly value applicants who have shown evidence of community-consciousness and social responsibility. We value experiences that increase the understanding of diversity and the role it plays in practicing medicine.

here is the link. http://www.rowan.edu/coopermed/
Click to expand...

I don't know what to think of this medical school since it doesn't even require Orgo Chemistry and physics....most medical schools do, what does this say about this school? The only plus I see to this school so far is that it's new.
 
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PinkIvy08 said:
1) Is this for real?
2) Being from Jersey, Camden still terrifies me. Couldn't pay me enough money or discount my tuition enough to get me to live there for 4 yrs. Philly isn't that great either...
3) Is this for real?!?
4) (imo) Having just finished 1st year, it's terrifying to think of having done the year without the basic prereqs (physics included...no comment on the necessity of orgo)...let alone to be in a class with a large number of people without a basic background in the sciences. Granted, NJ needed another med school, so I'm sure there will be spillover from the UMDNJs, but still...part of the benefits of 1st yr was having a class to study with who had diverse backgrounds - including academic backgrounds. Idk if I like where these loose reqs might lead the school...

just my two cents though
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Can you tell us a little more about Camden? What's so bad about it?
 
jissho said:
Can you tell us a little more about Camden? What's so bad about it?
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Camden is one of the most crime-ridden cities in the country. It's no fun living there (although I wouldn't know).


I just found out that the school is open to AMCAS applications so I added this school. Reading on their website shows that they are making a class of about 50 students and are expecting 3,000 applicants. They definitely seem to be taking a hollistic approach. They say the MCAT is important but they don't seem to emphasize it, nor do they seem to empashize GPA. I think it's more about having a diverse amount of experiences and being experienced to cultural diversity as well. I'M EXCITED!

Btw, they screen their applications so secondaries only go to a select number of candidates.
 
FutureDr214 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden,_New_Jersey

I lived in the hood before but even this concerns me a bit. Top spot overall for crime in 2009!!!:eek:

That being said I still would move there if offered an acceptance.
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MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY....IF OFFERED A SPOT IM GOING....NEVERTHELESS. I won't be in the street. I WILL BE IN THE SCHOOL...Let's be realistic, NEWARK is not a CAKE WALK either and I survived living right next to it for many years...LET NO ONE OR NEIGHBORHOOD DETER YOUR DREAMS....STAY FOCUSED EVERYONE....DON'T GET SIDE TRACKED NOW..I guess because I have been around poor people (the hood) most of my life. It does not affect me to the degree that it would had I not been brought up with poor or low income neighbors. I am a minister and I even preach in the prison system in NYC. I and my husband both. If you allow fear of a neighborhood to stop your lifelong dream, may it was just a qick knapp not a real dream at all.....I wish everyone the BEST....Another thing to notice is that they had to close the open house to additional attendees because of SPACE LIMITATIONS....THAT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE FEAR TO ME....I HEAR THE SOUND OF HOPE IN THE FACE OF ADVERSITY....
 
dlouis said:
Camden is one of the most crime-ridden cities in the country. It's no fun living there (although I wouldn't know).


I just found out that the school is open to AMCAS applications so I added this school. Reading on their website shows that they are making a class of about 50 students and are expecting 3,000 applicants. They definitely seem to be taking a hollistic approach. They say the MCAT is important but they don't seem to emphasize it, nor do they seem to empashize GPA. I think it's more about having a diverse amount of experiences and being experienced to cultural diversity as well. I'M EXCITED!

Btw, they screen their applications so secondaries only go to a select number of candidates.
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@ FutureDr214 ---I'M SO EXCITED....I KEEP CHECKING THE WEBSITE TO MAKE I'M NOT MISSING ANYTHING....GREAT OPPORTUINITY.. GREAT SCHOOL...STATE OF THE ART AMENITIES... I WISH YOU WELL MY FRIEND..
 
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mmcintosh said:
@ FutureDr214 ---I'M SO EXCITED....I KEEP CHECKING THE WEBSITE TO MAKE I'M NOT MISSING ANYTHING....GREAT OPPORTUINITY.. GREAT SCHOOL...STATE OF THE ART AMENITIES... I WISH YOU WELL MY FRIEND..
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I'll probably apply in the 2012 cycle. Using an extra year to bolster my GPA a bit more and to get some more ECs:D I applying to like 30 schools myself including Cooper:)
 
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mmcintosh said:
Not sure what you have against CAMDEN... but people that live there need to live somewhere too. At any rate, no one is discounting the entire relevance of physics. However MS1 is not entirely based on PHYSICS...,Let's be realistic and not pretentious. Also I believe that they have a very solid curriculum planned. the outline is very rigorous. NO CAT WALK......I salute an institution that dares to care for the poor and really endeavor to seek after the best students not SCORES...
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I never said MS1 was entirely based on physics, I simply said it was relevant and that I happened to really enjoy it. Also, I immediately stated that I doubt the necessity of 2 semesters of it. Not quite sure how saying physics is relevant makes me pretentious, but ok...

jissho said:
Can you tell us a little more about Camden? What's so bad about it?
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I lived in Philly for a year and my best friend lived across the river in Camden (on the 4-block area that was ok), so I was in Camden 1x a week. As others have mentioned, Camden isn't necessarily the safest or prettiest city. Also, when I was selecting med schools, I heavily factored into my decision school location. Personally, I wanted to go to school in a city that 1) made me happy to be there and 2) had stuff to do in the little downtime I would have - Camden is none of these. There's not much to do in Camden, though you can get to Philly pretty easily (though, I wasn't too big of a fan of Philly either). My opinion isn't based on fear (family in Detroit and Newark, in some rough parts) I just hated the "city" and felt unsafe and bored in most places. Oh, and Newark is a far better city than Camden - it's bigger, it has things to do, and certain areas really aren't that bad.

I too salute an institution that dares to care for the poor and really endeavors to seek after the best students, hence why I chose my med school. They don't think scores are everything, but they recognize their importance. Also, with such a small class size, and such a high demand from in-state residents, I think this whole conversation is really a moot point.
 
I actually just discovered this school today. Did a little SDN searching (aka avoiding paying out the $125 I owe GW for a secondary)

I'm really considering applying to Cooper. I want to work with the undeserved and have plenty of experience working with patients and communities below the poverty line. I think my parents will kill me for seriously considering moving to Camden.

From the curriculum, it doesn't look like students will be doing gross anatomy. I totally don't mind working in the hood, but I've really wanted to do a gross anatomy course my whole life.

I like the idea of the mission and would be really interested in interviewing at the very least. Anyone else applying? Thoughts?
 
sk8ngli said:
i actually just discovered this school today. Did a little sdn searching (aka avoiding paying out the $125 i owe gw for a secondary)

i'm really considering applying to cooper. I want to work with the undeserved and have plenty of experience working with patients and communities below the poverty line. I think my parents will kill me for seriously considering moving to camden.

From the curriculum, it doesn't look like students will be doing gross anatomy. I totally don't mind working in the hood, but i've really wanted to do a gross anatomy course my whole life.

I like the idea of the mission and would be really interested in interviewing at the very least. Anyone else applying? Thoughts?
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i'm definitely applying for 2013!!!!! Can't wait...
 
sk8ngli said:
I actually just discovered this school today. Did a little SDN searching (aka avoiding paying out the $125 I owe GW for a secondary)

I'm really considering applying to Cooper. I want to work with the undeserved and have plenty of experience working with patients and communities below the poverty line. I think my parents will kill me for seriously considering moving to Camden.

From the curriculum, it doesn't look like students will be doing gross anatomy. I totally don't mind working in the hood, but I've really wanted to do a gross anatomy course my whole life.

I like the idea of the mission and would be really interested in interviewing at the very least. Anyone else applying? Thoughts?
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ANATOMY IS PART OF THE FUNDAMENTALS FOR MS1..... SEE BELOW.

"Fundamentals"

Fundamentals is a 16-week integrated course that will provide students with a foundation in the basic science disciplines of anatomy, embryology, physiology, biochemistry, cell biology, genetics and immunology. The course will primarily focus on the normal structure, function and development of the human body. In addition, there will be an introduction to basic mechanisms of disease, microbiology/immunology, and pharmacology/therapeutics. The goal of the course is to provide a framework upon which additional knowledge will be added for the rest of medical school and subsequent clinical practice."
 
As luck would have it, I'm watching an investigative report on kids growing up in Camden Vs. Moorsetown now. All I have to say is wow.
 
That is a cool mission that the school has.
I would just caution you all to do a little investigating, and see whether the school is fully accredited yet. It appears to be legitimate, but sometimes it takes some time for these new schools to get "up and running". You may not want to be a guinea pig, particularly if there end up being any problems with getting the first class through in a timely manner. Residency programs tend to be conservative in their thinking and to prefer students from schools they have heard of and/or know based on interactions with previous students and residents. There are other schools that have a similar mission (Meharry, etc.) so I don't think the school is totally unique in that regard.

Also, I thought physics was painful too, but now as a cardiologist I realize that it was definitely necessary. I actually wish I knew more computer stuff and physics stuff, actually. I think even if not required, you should take it and that you honestly really need it for the MCAT also. It seems like they are trying to remove a barrier that might keep some people from applying, but I think that you should still take the typical med school prerequisites. People argue about them, especially organic chem, but overall I think they are there for a reason.
 
Yeah, I also don't think two semesters of Physics is necessary (except for taking the MCAT), but I do believe that Organic Chem really helps improve one's thinking process
 
jweezy225 said:
Yeah, I also don't think two semesters of Physics is necessary (except for taking the MCAT), but I do believe that Organic Chem really helps improve one's thinking process
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I agree that both are relevant to the MCAT, however I believe that too much emphasis has been placed on irrelevant pre-reqs and this may be apart of the reason for the overly politicized admissions process.

Let's face it, if you have early acceptance programs for HS students or recent HS grads as well as humanities to medicine programs, how truly relevant are the so called required pre-reqs? And again I say that 'cutting out the fat' is the only true way to be successful in any advanced degree program, especially medicine.

In other countries they go directly from HS to Med school and don't always have the so called pre-reqs done as well as some schools taking you with just an associates degree or others that require only 90 credits total, not even a degree. I have a friend that is in the Caribbean as an MS1 right now and she said that she has never done physics and the school waived the requirement and she is doing well there. Also a prominent CHIEF TRAUMA SURGEN IN NJ, whose children I grew up with, never even completed his degree from rutgers and was accepted after just doing the minimal science classes for acceptance never even graduated RUTGERS....This process can definitely use an over haul. Medicine is already challenging without the fat.:):laugh:
 
mmcintosh said:
I agree that both are relevant to the MCAT, however I believe that too much emphasis has been placed on irrelevant pre-reqs and this may be apart of the reason for the overly politicized admissions process.

Let's face it, if you have early acceptance programs for HS students or recent HS grads as well as humanities to medicine programs, how truly relevant are the so called required pre-reqs? And again I say that 'cutting out the fat' is the only true way to be successful in any advanced degree program, especially medicine.

In other countries they go directly from HS to Med school and don't always have the so called pre-reqs done as well as some schools taking you with just an associates degree or others that require only 90 credits total, not even a degree. I have a friend that is in the Caribbean as an MS1 right now and she said that she has never done physics and the school waived the requirement and she is doing well there. Also a prominent CHIEF TRAUMA SURGEN IN NJ, whose children I grew up with, never even completed his degree from rutgers and was accepted after just doing the minimal science classes for acceptance never even graduated RUTGERS....This process can definitely use an over haul. Medicine is already challenging without the fat.:):laugh:
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I've heard some hesitations voiced by a few residency directors on the kids that do those combined BA/MD prgms, particularly for prgms outside of primary care. Also, 1)The RU example is from a different era - many things have changed since that doctor was in school, and 2) Caribbean med schools aren't even in the same league as US med schools. Look at their attrition rates - might these lower requirements partly be the cause?

I wouldn't call prereqs that serve a a knowledge base for med school material "fat". They're more like bone - the base on which you build.

The problem with reforming this process is that there just aren't enough seats for everyone, so you need something to help differentiate. So, if we do away with prereqs, what would you propose we base the new application process on that would not be subjective? Just curious what you would like to see admissions be based on
 
PinkIvy08 said:
I've heard some hesitations voiced by a few residency directors on the kids that do those combined BA/MD prgms, particularly for prgms outside of primary care. Also, 1)The RU example is from a different era - many things have changed since that doctor was in school, and 2) Caribbean med schools aren't even in the same league as US med schools. Look at their attrition rates - might these lower requirements partly be the cause?

I wouldn't call prereqs that serve a a knowledge base for med school material "fat". They're more like bone - the base on which you build.

The problem with reforming this process is that there just aren't enough seats for everyone, so you need something to help differentiate. So, if we do away with prereqs, what would you propose we base the new application process on that would not be subjective? Just curious what you would like to see admissions be based on
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It is so unfortunate that so many have been sucked into the rhetoric that the admissions process has caused. The truth is that more than 40% of FMG or Caribbean grads make up the numbers practicing in the US TODAY. Additionally, exactly what league are you referring to? THE TAKE YOUR MONEY AND LEAVE YOU IN A WORLD OF DEBT LEAGUE......Truth be told as I said before, IT DOESNT MATTER THE PROGRAM YOU ARE IN.... YOU MUST PERFORM PERIOD. If all you have to show is your school's name or reputation, sad to say you are working with very little. And to address what directors have so called said about "early acceptance programs", the point is MANY SCHOOLS ARE following the SAME MODEL.....So until it is abolished all together, the proof is in the pudding...Also just look at the numbers yourself...Success rates don't lie. Defined Answer - fat  - adjective, fat·ter, fat·test, noun, verb, fat·ted, fat·ting: having too much flabby tissue; corpulent; obese: - THIS IS THE CURRENT ADMISSIONS PROCESS. Thank God it is going on a DIET.... :):):luck:
 
This is definitely interesting. Like 1 poster said, there are alot of combined programs that follow this model anyways.
 
mmcintosh said:
It is so unfortunate that so many have been sucked into the rhetoric that the admissions process has caused. The truth is that more than 40% of FMG or Caribbean grads make up the numbers practicing in the US TODAY. Additionally, exactly what league are you referring to? THE TAKE YOUR MONEY AND LEAVE YOU IN A WORLD OF DEBT LEAGUE......Truth be told as I said before, IT DOESNT MATTER THE PROGRAM YOU ARE IN.... YOU MUST PERFORM PERIOD. If all you have to show is your school's name or reputation, sad to say you are working with very little. And to address what directors have so called said about "early acceptance programs", the point is MANY SCHOOLS ARE following the SAME MODEL.....So until it is abolished all together, the proof is in the pudding...Also just look at the numbers yourself...Success rates don't lie. Defined Answer - fat  - adjective, fat·ter, fat·test, noun, verb, fat·ted, fat·ting: having too much flabby tissue; corpulent; obese: - THIS IS THE CURRENT ADMISSIONS PROCESS. Thank God it is going on a DIET.... :):):luck:
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(no idea where your stats are coming from, but I'm going to go with it...)

That means 60% don't make it...which is a pretty high percentage, wouldn't you say? I don't put US MD/DO schools in the same league as Caribbean schools for precisely that reason. MD/DO - you're going to be a doctor, unless you're in the extremely small percent that doesn't finish. Caribbean, per your stats, gives you a 60% chance of not making it to be a doctor in the US, which is pretty near a failing percent.

Idk, I still believe that pre-reqs serve a purpose outside of pure knowledge. I think they are a lot about making oneself sit down and study intensely, consistently, or whatever adjective you'd like to use to describe the way pre-meds study as compared to non-science majors. I was a psych major, and as much as I love my major and believe it helped me understand and connect with my fellow man better, I question what kind of slap-in-the-face med school would've been for me had I not had my prereqs, which slowly taught me how to study for the sciences. Granted, the MCATs aren't going anywhere and we all know how rigorously we have to study for that one exam, but one MCAT is different than the series of learning and testing that is characteristic of med school. For me at least, I believe pre-reqs were a nice segue into med school studying life - not exactly the same, but a nice stepping stool.

I've heard it argued that gpa is indicative of dedication - it's more about consistent studying. And hard sciences are much different than social sciences. If I was on an AdComm, it would be logical for me to use as part of my formula selecting my incoming class science gpa - a nice barometer of consistent effort. And what's the best predictor of future behavior? Past behavior (especially in the recent past)! So, if I'm trying to chose who I think will make it at my institution why wouldn't I chose someone with a good track record of performing well over the long haul?

Still genuinely curious as to what method you would propose to differentiate between the 1000s of med school applicants. Would you prefer just MCAT and ECs? That sounds worse...
 
PinkIvy08 said:
(no idea where your stats are coming from, but I'm going to go with it...)

That means 60% don't make it...which is a pretty high percentage, wouldn't you say? I don't put US MD/DO schools in the same league as Caribbean schools for precisely that reason. MD/DO - you're going to be a doctor, unless you're in the extremely small percent that doesn't finish. Caribbean, per your stats, gives you a 60% chance of not making it to be a doctor in the US, which is pretty near a failing percent.

Idk, I still believe that pre-reqs serve a purpose outside of pure knowledge. I think they are a lot about making oneself sit down and study intensely, consistently, or whatever adjective you'd like to use to describe the way pre-meds study as compared to non-science majors. I was a psych major, and as much as I love my major and believe it helped me understand and connect with my fellow man better, I question what kind of slap-in-the-face med school would've been for me had I not had my prereqs, which slowly taught me how to study for the sciences. Granted, the MCATs aren't going anywhere and we all know how rigorously we have to study for that one exam, but one MCAT is different than the series of learning and testing that is characteristic of med school. For me at least, I believe pre-reqs were a nice segue into med school studying life - not exactly the same, but a nice stepping stool.

I've heard it argued that gpa is indicative of dedication - it's more about consistent studying. And hard sciences are much different than social sciences. If I was on an AdComm, it would be logical for me to use as part of my formula selecting my incoming class science gpa - a nice barometer of consistent effort. And what's the best predictor of future behavior? Past behavior (especially in the recent past)! So, if I'm trying to chose who I think will make it at my institution why wouldn't I chose someone with a good track record of performing well over the long haul?

Still genuinely curious as to what method you would propose to differentiate between the 1000s of med school applicants. Would you prefer just MCAT and ECs? That sounds worse...
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For clarification, IT IS OBVIOUS that 60% of Carribean Med School graduates DO NOT FAIL.... what kind of harsh negative view of FMG Dr's have you been exposed to? I think that it is soooo disrespectful to even insinuate that FMG or Carib Dr's are subpar. I know too many that have excelled past "US" USMLE scores. "scored much higher". Not sure what kind of superhuman or super elite concept of US med schools you have been exposed to but let me help you out, DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE.... THEY ARE HUMAN AND FAIL JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. For the record, I have repeatedly said that PREMED PREREQ'S HAVE THIER PLACE BUT ARE NOT THE ENTIRE JUDGE OF SUCCESS AND I APPLAUD ANY SCHOOL THAT SEES THAT TRUTH. I'm sure that there are several others that KNOW THIER WORTH AND ABILITIES and think the same. "WE ARE MORE THAN MCAT NUMBERS" IN THE REAL WORLD , PEOPLE HAVE MORE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE PRACTICE OF MEDICINE THAN AN MCAT SCORE OR GPA....
 
I was just using the information you provided: "The truth is that more than 40% of FMG or Caribbean grads make up the numbers practicing in the US TODAY."

Simple math says that if 40% these grads make up the number of practicing physicians in the US, where do the other 60% go?

Or perhaps you meant to say that 40% of practicing US physicians are either FGM or Caribbean grads...which is not what your word choice insinuated.

Calm down. I was trying to engage in an intellectual debate. I provided my reason for why I believe science pre-reqs make sense, and I asked for your opinion on an alternative solution.
 
A lot of people keep talking about how camden is a dangerous city. Ok fair enough, but are you really going to be in the center of all of that danger? The hospital has been around for a long time, which means that there are hundreds of residents, doctors, nurses and healthcare professionals that go through those doors every day. Are they constantly being shot at? The school is going to be right next to the hospital so if those people arent in danger than the students arent going to be in any danger either. Not to mention that UMDNJ students have been rotating at Cooper for many many years. Are they all dead?

I recognize that this isnt the best arguement but I think the safety of the area shouldnt be a primary concern for people. Im sure bad publicity about the safety of a new medical school is going to reflect horribly on our gov. Cristie and thus plenty of safety measures are going to be put into place. If you are willing to go to school in newark you should be willing to go to school in camden. I am rotating through UMDNJ Newark right now and two days ago someone got robbed at gun point at 5 PM outside the hospital. There are crack addicts walking on the other side of the street opposite the entrance to Columbia medical school (There is a homeless shelter right outside).

The point is, judge the school, not the town its in. Chances are if it is really that dangerous medical professionals would not be choosing to work there, especially if there is such a shortage and thus probably opportunities elsewhere. And for all its worth I have heard amazing things about Cooper hospital. People in northern Jersey that have had to go there have said that the staff iss incredibly nice and the doctors are very very competent. If you have good board scores I dont think anyone will have a problem landing a good residency programs from Cooper Medical.

Edit: Quote from Cooper Medical's Website: "Inside the (medical) building are 25 Active Learning Rooms – rooms designed to be the home for eight students for their first two years of medical school. In these rooms, our students will spend more than three-quarters of their formal class time, focusing on small group discussions and presentations, facilitated and self-directed individual and group learning"

I dont know about you guys, but that sounds like an amazing learning experience.
 
doctafohire said:
a lot of people keep talking about how camden is a dangerous city. Ok fair enough, but are you really going to be in the center of all of that danger? The hospital has been around for a long time, which means that there are hundreds of residents, doctors, nurses and healthcare professionals that go through those doors every day. Are they constantly being shot at? The school is going to be right next to the hospital so if those people arent in danger than the students arent going to be in any danger either. Not to mention that umdnj students have been rotating at cooper for many many years. Are they all dead?

I recognize that this isnt the best arguement but i think the safety of the area shouldnt be a primary concern for people. Im sure bad publicity about the safety of a new medical school is going to reflect horribly on our gov. Cristie and thus plenty of safety measures are going to be put into place. If you are willing to go to school in newark you should be willing to go to school in camden. I am rotating through umdnj newark right now and two days ago someone got robbed at gun point at 5 pm outside the hospital. There are crack addicts walking on the other side of the street opposite the entrance to columbia medical school (there is a homeless shelter right outside).

The point is, judge the school, not the town its in. Chances are if it is really that dangerous medical professionals would not be choosing to work there, especially if there is such a shortage and thus probably opportunities elsewhere. And for all its worth i have heard amazing things about cooper hospital. People in northern jersey that have had to go there have said that the staff iss incredibly nice and the doctors are very very competent. If you have good board scores i dont think anyone will have a problem landing a good residency programs from cooper medical.

Edit: Quote from cooper medical's website: "inside the (medical) building are 25 active learning rooms – rooms designed to be the home for eight students for their first two years of medical school. In these rooms, our students will spend more than three-quarters of their formal class time, focusing on small group discussions and presentations, facilitated and self-directed individual and group learning"

i dont know about you guys, but that sounds like an amazing learning experience.
Click to expand...

i am with docforhire!!!! Excellent argument and proof....
 
DOCTAfoHIRE said:
Edit: Quote from Cooper Medical's Website: "Inside the (medical) building are 25 Active Learning Rooms – rooms designed to be the home for eight students for their first two years of medical school. In these rooms, our students will spend more than three-quarters of their formal class time, focusing on small group discussions and presentations, facilitated and self-directed individual and group learning"

I dont know about you guys, but that sounds like an amazing learning experience.
Click to expand...

AWESOME STUFF. REALLY SOUNDS GREAT.....Thank God for people that want the best medical education experience not fluff....
 
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40% of currently practicing docs in the US are probably foreign medical grads. This doesn't mean they are better or worse than US grads. Many of them are very smart b/c of the non-US born ones, a lot of them had to pass our medical licensing boards in a language that is not their native language.

Most of the Caribbean schools will not say what their graduation rates are, nor what percent of their graduates manage to secure a US residency. Many of the schools do have <60% graduation rates (for those who are willing to dig and find out). Only perhaps 2-4 of them have a better than 80% passing rate on the US medical licensing exam Step 1, which one has to pass in order to get a residency in the US. These figures have been published in an academic journal (were published by country, not by school, but since most of the Caribbean schools are located on island nations with just 1-2 schools per nation, the article writers were able to extrapolate and figure out USMLE pass rates for several schools). Several of the schools have been specifically disapproved by various states in the US, which means their graduates cannot be licensed to practice in those states. The problem with a lot of these Caribbean schools is that they have inadequate facilities for teaching and inadequate screening of who gets in and inadequate access to 3rd and 4th year hospital rotation sites (the latter is particular important).

It sounds like this new school in New Jersey is going to use "problem based learning" curriculum, which is also in use at several US schools already. Depending on your personality and studying style, this could be a good thing or a bad thing, though it sounds really cool on paper. The problem is, you kind of won't know which kind of person you are until you get deep into the med school studying situation. It's a good concept, though.
 
DOCTAfoHIRE said:
I recognize that this isnt the best arguement but I think the safety of the area shouldnt be a primary concern for people.
Click to expand...

Just wanted chime in and say I disagree with this statement. I'm glad you realized it wasn't a good argument. OF COURSE safety should be a primary concern. Who moves anywhere without taking safety of the environment in consideration?
 
The 2015 MCAT will most likely bring the addition of statistics and the elimination of organic chemistry, along with some restructuring. AAMC has released documentation of exploration of the above statements. As I have stated on the Cooper school-specific thread, Cooper's course requirements put it in line (or ahead of the times, really) with the current trend that will in all likelihood catch on in a few years elsewhere.

A second note: yes, Cooper is a new medical school. Someone had mentioned earlier that the first class taken is like the guinea pig, etc. in a new school. That holds true. But I wanted to mention that the hospital system had RWJMS students rotating in it until now, and has been a teaching hospital through RWJMS with residents, fellows, attendings, etc. in the scholastic environment for a long time, so it is only the basic science years that are new here - which is not usually the case for a new school.
 
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