Cornell or Columbia

[Mr T]

I know there have been several comparisons between the two schools that people have praised. However, after reviewing them myself I find them to be crap.

I visited Columbia's second look. I liked the curriculum, profs, partying, outgoing atmosphere, etc... My concerns are the quality of the facilities, especially the anatomy lab which they did not show us. The facilities seemed to be kind of run down. Also it seemed that a significant portion of the students were extremely preppy and had cliques in which certain students would interact only w/ people in their clique and exclude others.

I haven't visited Cornell yet but I'm starting to feel that PBL is slightly BS. Wouldn't it be more efficient to learn from a professor than your fellow classmate, who has no idea what they are talking about? I don't really have any other concerns w/ Cornell as I have yet to visit. Their facilites (from my interview tour) seem nicer than Columbia's.

Finally, with respect to both schools, I sense that Cornell students have more free time but it seems that Columbia students are more social (huge generalization, I know). I base this on all the P&S clubs, theatrical proformances, and partying pics I've seen (and experienced) at Columbia. I also sense that Columbia is better for preparing students for a surgical residency, but I wasn't sure about ortho (my interest) since Cornell is affiliated with HSS.

Any info from Cornell students, Columbia students, or anyone who has a basis to answer this question would be appreciated.

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[Brainsucker]

Facilities: Yes, they are rundown. You saw Alumni Auditorium, where you'll be spending most of lecture your first year, but it's all downhill from there. Hammer 401, where you'll spend 2nd year is pretty nasty in a '70s sort of way. The most annoying aspect, however, is Bard--from clicking radiators to street noise if you're on the East side, it's nasty. I should point out that it's nice to be right next to one's classmates. The anatomy lab has acoustic tile hung ceilings and linoleum. 5 students/cadaver You'll spend more time there than pretty much any other med students in the country. (we just finished a couple weeks ago) Next year they should be done cleaning the building, so you'll be able to crack some windows a little more.

Preps: Sure, there are tons of Ivy League people, but they're not too frightening, believe me. There are plenty of cliques, but people just group with others they like. They're not snooty about it, at least in my experience. It has been frustrating for me because I had hoped that people would be over that kind of thing. (I'm not sure it ever ends.) In some ways, P&S is like high school--sports (rugby, basketball, squash), clubs, even school plays! P&S has a significant number of non-trads, who tend to be more interesting and intellectual, in my experience.

PBL: I had a choice between a school that was tons of PBL and P&S. I chose P&S partly because I didn't want to be told when I had to be somewhere (PBL session). I go to most lectures, but I like that I don't have to. (I'm going skiing this Friday, for example.)

Surgery: I couldn't imagine better preparation. First of all, we spend lots of time on anatomy, which I loved. Also, the surgery department is really gung-ho about getting 1st and 2nd years into the ORs. Even our physiology course director (an anesthesiologist) grabs students and brings them into the OR. Suture courses are available in the 1st and 2nd years and laproscopic training courses are available in the 2nd years. Besides g-surg, ortho and neurosurg are really open to having students scrub in. There's no doubt that HSS is the place to be for ortho, but I'd have second thoughts about going to Cornell just for that. After all, there's absolutely no guarantee that you'll match at HSS. (Though if you get good recs and they make some phone calls for you, you should do well.) If you don't end up at Cornell, do a sub-I.

 

[manning18]

I attend a Medical School that, while strong, is not at the level of Columbia (P&S) or Cornell (Weill). That said, I would say that Columbia is a better choice for you than Weill. The match lists from P&S are amongst the best, if not the best, in the nation. Weill's are strong as well, but P&S's match lists are much better than Weill's. I would venture a guess that, b/c of the tradtional curriculum at P&S vs. PBL at Weill, you'll probvably end up with a higher USMLE Step 1 score from P&S. My advice is Columbia over Cornell.

 

[edfig99]

having been a student at cornell, and currently being on faculty at columbia and interacting with their students daily, all i can tell you is that the schools attract very different kinds of students, and so you just have to go where you feel more comfortable (particularly if you ignore the fact that a med school is a med school is a med school, so you should base your decision on a combination of how you feel, what you can afford, support network, etc)

Match lists do not reflect the school or a school's curriculum or how well they prepare people for tests. match lists are a reflection of individual student effort (with hopefully some good advising along the way) and is highly variable from year to year.

both schools have their good and bad features. neither curriculum is perfect, and there are numerous critiques in the medical literature about both approaches -- lecture based, and problem based. there are pros and cons to both locations. each med school has great affiliations for rotations and you'll get outstanding patient care experiences at both schools. you'll have ample opportunities for procedures at both campuses. you'll see a wide range of pathology at both campuses. you'll meet outstanding researchers and educators at both campuses (and some not so great researchers and educators...at least, from a student's perspective) the educational facilities for the most part are better at the cornell campus, but there are some pretty old classrooms you may have to hang out in for a lecture or two. the dorms are also a little better at the cornell campus -- the first year dorms underwent a major renovation a few years ago, and i believe the apartments for 2nd - 4th year are either in process of renovation, or very recently renovated.

Personally, I really enjoyed my training and experiences at Cornell and would easily redo it in a heartbeat, exactly the same way if I had to. I think it really prepared me for residency and life after residency in a way that i'm certain a lecture-based curriculum would not have (for me anyway). These days there is so much more to medical education than straight knowledge. Students, Residents and even Attending Physicians are evaluated on so many other domains than straight-up knowledge and i think cornell does a good job at teaching professionalism, interpersonal communications, etc, while at the same time teaching you to learn. is it efficient? probably not...but neither is lecture-based (especially if you're going to pay thousands of dollars in tuition and NOT show up or just get a set of handouts) The Cornell curriculum isn't pure PBL though -- there is SOME lecture, just not a lot of it...and the short days allow you to learn at your own pace (adult learning theory and all that jazz). As far as a social life, I attended many great parties, and developed great friendships and professional relationships that are still ongoing. The Columbia folks do that too.

either way, congrats on the decision you have to make. listen to your gut....and your financial aid package.

good luck
-ed

 

[ExtraCrispy]

I know that as a premed, it's hard to gauge what will be most important to the quality of your education over the next four years. I certainly remember being in your position! That said, I truly believe that focusing on things like facilities as your criteria for a school will lead you in the wrong direction.

Now that I'm about to graduate, it's clear to me - and thank goodness I had an inkling of this before I started, b/c it's what helped me choose a med school in the first place - that the most important part of med school is the clinical years, particularly the third year. How much you see and do, and the quality of teaching, in that one year is going to determine your competence for practicing medicine and entering residency. The first two years are important, but really only in helping you prepare for step 1 - if you've made it through college with grades good enough to land you a spot in med school, you can figure out how to read textbooks and syllabi to learn the info in the first two years. How well you can APPLY that knowledge to patient care depends on your strength of training in the clinical years.

At Columbia, the clinical training is rigorous. Because we have a diverse and often indigent patient population - and because we often rotate through community or inner-city hospitals (Harlem) - you have the chance to do a lot, and early. The hospitals in NYC as a whole run inefficiently, which means that to take care of your patients you often need to take initiative and get things done on your own. This is tremendously frustrating as a resident, but as a student it's a terrific way to train you to be proactive. On the wards here, you don't just tag along with the residents, most of the time you're playing a key role on the medical team and taking primary responsibility for your patients. That involvement prompts you to go back to your textbooks and integrate information you've learned in the past with your current work. You learn venipuncture, arterial sticks, IVs, etc. early here.

I can't speak about the experience at Cornell, perhaps someone else could comment on the clinical years there. But I can say that I wouldn't ignore the rich clinical training at Columbia for something as trivial as "facilities." Sure, how pretty the buildings look is something to consider, but does it really outweigh your education in the hospital?

If you're concerned about Ortho, take a look at our Match List this year - we matched 14 people into ortho this year, one at HSS.

Best of luck to you with your choice!

 

[2010MD]

having been a student at cornell, and currently being on faculty at columbia and interacting with their students daily, all i can tell you is that the schools attract very different kinds of students, and so you just have to go where you feel more comfortable

Thanks, Ed, for the thorough and informative post. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts.

I'm not really considering Columbia (I'm deciding between Cornell and a couple of other schools) so I'm not so interested in a comparison of Columbia vs Cornell students (unless you feel inclined to give one), but I would love to hear more about the "kind" of student you feel like Cornell attracts. I know I will get some sense of this at the second look weekend, but I'm trying to gather as much information as I can about the school beforehand. Finding the student body I feel most compatible with is going to be a big factor in my decision.

 

[Mr T]

I appreciate everyone's input, which has been pretty informative.
Could anyone ellaborate on the 3rd and 4th year rotations of either school?

Also to give you a better understanding of my situation, I have a full ride (my final cost would be $5k/yr including room and board) from Univ of MD. However, I would much rather be in nyc, I am interested in surgery, and I feel Cornell or Columbia will provide a better education (& social atmosphere). Hence, I feel I would be in a much better position to get a surgical residency, especially a more competitive sub-specialty, from Cornell or Columbia.

Am I basically correct in my logic? One problem I have is that I'm not sure how much your med school factors into getting a competitive residency.

 

[Brainsucker]

You just stepped on an SDN landmine: Plenty of people will tell you that it doesn't matter where you go, it's what you do when you get there, while others will say that prestige makes a big difference. Board scores of different schools aren't published, so it's very difficult to really evaluate that. Even without that data, I'd say that it's pretty naive to think that connections and reputation don't matter. One way to look at it is to note that most med schools have pretty similar entering stats (at least when you compare to the wide range of law school, for example) but match lists are pretty dissimilar. Also, if you would much rather live in NY, that implies that you might want to do your residency in NY. If so, a NY school will give you better connections to do that.

 

[Rebs]

Thanks, Ed, for the thorough and informative post. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts.

I'm not really considering Columbia (I'm deciding between Cornell and a couple of other schools) so I'm not so interested in a comparison of Columbia vs Cornell students (unless you feel inclined to give one), but I would love to hear more about the "kind" of student you feel like Cornell attracts. I know I will get some sense of this at the second look weekend, but I'm trying to gather as much information as I can about the school beforehand. Finding the student body I feel most compatible with is going to be a big factor in my decision.

You're in a similar sitaution to me, in terms of deciding between Cornell and another school. I also got into Columbia, but I declined my offer because I just knew in my gut that it wasn't for me. Its nothing against Columbia, because in the beginning Columbia was a dream school of mine. In terms of student vibe, that too has been a major if not the most imporatnt factor for me, along with location. This has been a very informative thread for me, because Ed and others have had some great insight.

So far though, Cornell is a great choice and I think its highly likely that I could be there. They have unbelievable facilities (ie: Plasma screens at each table in anatomy lab, brand new ambulatory center being built), lots of opps for int'l research and from what I've seen a great student vibe, although I know getting out at 1 PM everyday would contribute to that.

 

[Bfriccia1]

I attend a Medical School that, while strong, is not at the level of Columbia (P&S) or Cornell (Weill). That said, I would say that Columbia is a better choice for you than Weill. The match lists from P&S are amongst the best, if not the best, in the nation. Weill's are strong as well, but P&S's match lists are much better than Weill's. I would venture a guess that, b/c of the tradtional curriculum at P&S vs. PBL at Weill, you'll probvably end up with a higher USMLE Step 1 score from P&S. My advice is Columbia over Cornell.

Actually supposedly the average board score at Cornell is higher than at Columbia (235 vs. 230) so I don't think that board score is a good reason to go to Columbia over Cornell. COlumbia does have a lot of future surgeons, and they tend to attract people who are interested in these "prestigious" specialties whereas Cornell has more a non-traditional crowd and a class that is more diverse in interests in general. I think both schools will prepare you extremely well for any residency you want. THe main difference is the way schools do things: columbia is a lot of lecture and tests aren't that often while cornell is less class time but they have tests more frequently so you have to keep up more with the material. I also think that cornell probably has an older mroe "non-traditional" student background so there is less of a right-out-of-college fraternity feel to it. It will come down to "gut feeling" in choosing between the two schools.

 

[Pinner Doc]

columbia is a lot of lecture and tests aren't that often while cornell is less class time but they have tests more frequently so you have to keep up more with the material. I also think that cornell probably has an older mroe "non-traditional" student background so there is less of a right-out-of-college fraternity feel to it. It will come down to "gut feeling" in choosing between the two schools.

I feel like I should speak up here as a Columbia student. Our classes are frequently not more than 9am-1pm, with very little required attendance (I rarely go to class). Also, while during the first year we have block exams, second year has exams every 2 weeks or so. We have three more weeks of second year, and 5 more exams to get through (spread out).

 

[Mr T]

I spoke with a couple of students at Columbia and they said there is usually 5 students per cadaver.
Does anyone know the ratio at Cornell?
Also what is the anatomy lab like at Columbia?

Additionally, can anyone give me more insight into the differences between the types of students the two schools attract.

Thanks

 

[MSIV]

Do you actually think that the ratio of students/cadaver has ANY meaning on your medical education?

What if its 3 instead of 5? Will you pick Cornell over Columbia based on this, read as a little more time dissecting. You will have PLENTY of dissection time with a ratio of 5, or even 6, in fact you will have more than you could ever want.

Besides, anatomy is one of the less important classes in your development as a doctor, even if you want to be a surgeon. All this PBL vs lecture, how many hrs in class, type of student, etc is all crap. In the end, everyone reads the same books and the class sizes are large enough that you will get a good cross section of personalities at either place (just because you only met 1 personality type on the small sample size during your interview means nothing-even "laid-back, touch, feely schools like Sinai have their share of ambitious, scary, study-all-the-time students). The only meaningful difference between the 2 is location, patient population, and degree of autonomy given during your clinical years. Concentrate on these factors.

Also, I wouldn't let anyone tell you that the quality of the "facilities" is trivial, especially when comparing these 2 very good schools. Although you may have a preference with which patient population you would rather work with, or whether you prefer the "toss you in" style of Columbia or more "supportive" atmosphere of Cornell, you can't tell me that you will be a better doctor coming from one over the other. A school's facilities has alot to do with your comfort level as a student and I don't think that it is all that meaningless.

You know what I realized...whenever I was confronted with these tough decisions, deep down I really knew where I would rather go, and all of my "decision-making" was just a process of convincing myself that what I chose was right, beyond any doubt. Its hard making a decision when there is doubt, but you'll get used to it

 

[Saluki]

You know what I realized...whenever I was confronted with these tough decisions, deep down I really knew where I would rather go, and all of my "decision-making" was just a process of convincing myself that what I chose was right, beyond any doubt. Its hard making a decision when there is doubt, but you'll get used to it

It's so true... I spent all week obsessing over whether to pick Vandy or Cleveland Clinic, but in my heart I knew that I liked Cleveland Clinic better-- I was just scared because no one around here (my home, not SDN) has ever heard of it....

To the OP: It was easier for me making a decision because the programs were so different--- you've got a slightly harder choice... I didn't even interview at Cornell, so I guess I'm not that great of a person to give advice. However, doesn't Columbia have a much higher volume of Hispanic patients? Can you speak Spanish? As silly as that is, I'd consider that- the quality of your clinical experience is going to be very different if you can't understand what the patients are saying. Other than that, as my advisor said when I was making my choice "Just go with your heart- you can't make a wrong decision either way..."

 

[Mr T]

The factors I am considering so far are, the students, fin. aid, location, facilities, and residency opportunities.

Right now I'm leaning towards Columbia almost completely because of their match. A lot of people tell me that it won't make a difference in your residency if you go to cornell or columbia. But I have a really hard time believing that looking at the match results for the two schools. Its not even close. I don't know if I want to be a cardiologist or a neurosurgeon but I feel that I will keep more options open going to columbia.

My assumption is basically: Going to columbia, I think I would do better for matching into a competitive residency if I had equal scores and accomplishments at both schools. The only catch is that I don't know if my logic is right, that is, putting so much weight on the match results.

 

[quideam]

Cornellian here... so, Mr.T, as far as the "factors" you're considering:
1. Students - i'm sure you've already gotten a vibe from each school. Cornell is definetely a bit more "non traditional" in it's student body, as in we have more older students, non-science majors, etc. But it's really all about where you feel you'll "fit in" the best.
2. Fin aid is AWESOME at Cornell. I have no idea about Columbia.
3. Location - that really depends on what you want. Personally, not being a huge fan of NY, the UES is great: quiet, close to Central park, pretty, etc. Pretty safe too.
4. Facilities: Needless to say, NYPH is incredible, and our affiliates are great too. We have hospitals in every borough, and you get to rotate through all of them (if you want) or stay predominantly in Manhattan (if you want).
5. Residency opportunities: So... you REALLY think that going to Columbia will somehow give you a leg up over Cornell? I would say that this is only going to be true if you want to go to a Columbia-affiliated residency (and being from Cornell will of course help you out with the Cornell-affiliated ones). But, as people have said before, you can't really tell a lot from match lists, other than what people wanted to do and where they wanted to go. I think it's pretty much safe to say that at top schools, the match lists are more or less equal in terms of people getting to go where they want. The only way to really 'evaluate' a match list is to interivew 4th years, asking them where they wanted to go, what interviews they actually got, then how they ranked their choices, and where they matched. Then you would need to compare the Cornell and Columbia students while controlling for grades, board scores, recommendations (how to do that??), "audition" rotations, and of course interest. THEN maybe you'd have something.

Ok... back to studying .

Oh, on a separate note about Cornell... I would say the main reason NOT to come here is the mandatory PBL. Then again, the main reason TO come here (other than the huge connections with international medicine) is PBL. So... there you go!

Q

 

[Bfriccia1]

The factors I am considering so far are, the students, fin. aid, location, facilities, and residency opportunities.

Right now I'm leaning towards Columbia almost completely because of their match. A lot of people tell me that it won't make a difference in your residency if you go to cornell or columbia. But I have a really hard time believing that looking at the match results for the two schools. Its not even close. I don't know if I want to be a cardiologist or a neurosurgeon but I feel that I will keep more options open going to columbia.

My assumption is basically: Going to columbia, I think I would do better for matching into a competitive residency if I had equal scores and accomplishments at both schools. The only catch is that I don't know if my logic is right, that is, putting so much weight on the match results.

I think that you have misinterpreted the match lists a little bit. Cornell has great surgical programs (whether it is surgical oncology at memorial-sloan ketering which is the top cancer hospital in the country, orthopedics at HSS which is considered to be one of the two best orthopedics programs in the country, the urology department which is top 5 in the country, the chairmen of cardiac surgery who did David Letterman, Larry King and a bunch of other famous people's surgery, a cardiology program which is among the tops in the country, ect.) Neurosugery is considered to be a great strength of COlumbia and people wold say it is better. I'm not saying Columbia's other programs is worse than cornell, I'm just saying that if your only reasoning is that Columbia is more prestigious in surgical or competitive specialties, it is not completely true. I think the difference in match lists is due to student interests/personality types rather than credentials. If you were equal at both schools, you would have equal opportunities.

 

[NothingClever]

Jesus, would you decide on Cornell already and stop whining! You know you want to go there to prevent Focker from stealing your girlfriend.

--Enough Said

 

[Rebs]

I think that you have misinterpreted the match lists a little bit. Cornell has great surgical programs (whether it is surgical oncology at memorial-sloan ketering which is the top cancer hospital in the country, orthopedics at HSS which is considered to be one of the two best orthopedics programs in the country, the urology department which is top 5 in the country, the chairmen of cardiac surgery who did David Letterman, Larry King and a bunch of other famous people's surgery, a cardiology program which is among the tops in the country, ect.) Neurosugery is considered to be a great strength of COlumbia and people wold say it is better. I'm not saying Columbia's other programs is worse than cornell, I'm just saying that if your only reasoning is that Columbia is more prestigious in surgical or competitive specialties, it is not completely true. I think the difference in match lists is due to student interests/personality types rather than credentials. If you were equal at both schools, you would have equal opportunities.

Wow, I think you just signed me up for Cornell. Although I knew all along I liked Cornell better than Columbia.

 

[DrDarwin]

Consider class size. I am not sure what proportion of students at each school obtained a 'good' residency by your standards, but I think Columbia's class is much larger.

 

[missbonnie]

i'm a classmate of PinnerDoc.

I love it here. I don't know much about Cornell, but the one gripe I heard is that they dont' really teach you pharm and mandatory PBL can suck sometime.
I know nothing about PBL, but I love that I don't need to go to class. I skip almost all lectures but go to small group - which are cases. P&S isn't as super traditional as most ppl think..it is predominately lecture based but we have plenty of smaller group type learning. I do however, hate that anatomy took forever. But maybe u want to be a surgeon. In my opinion, PBL seems like a waste of time cuz u don't really know anything. Only recently, do I feel like I could really use that type of learning. If you know you're interested in Psych, neuro or surg, Columbia is a great place.

I don't skip every lecture though - i go to the ones I think might be interesting or are being given by good lecturers.

Like others have said, you just gotta go with your gut feeling regarding the schools. Unfortunately, you really can't tell what a school is like until u start it!

Perhaps one thing that really distinguishes P&S from other schools is the P&S Club - tons of REAL extracurriculars that many students are proud to be a part of - like Bard Hall Players (3 full productions a year!), rugby club, to name a few. We have an office and a person devoted to just running our clubs.

I could go and on but I don't want to be too annoying!

Bonnie

p.s. the reason the anatomy lab is not shown is for respect & privacy reasons of the cadavers. They made this point when we started Anatomy. That said, the labs are fine. Definitely not super up to date like Yale's but anatomy is anatomy .... and I also skipped anatomy lab too towards the end!

 

[Brainsucker]

Skipped it at the end? Gasp! Head and neck is so cool, so's the brachial plexus, I don't care what anyone says.

 

[Habari]

I love it here. I don't know much about Cornell, but the one gripe I heard is that they dont' really teach you pharm and mandatory PBL can suck sometime.
I know nothing about PBL, but I love that I don't need to go to class. I skip almost all lectures but go to small group - which are cases. P&S isn't as super traditional as most ppl think..it is predominately lecture based but we have plenty of smaller group type learning. I do however, hate that anatomy took forever. But maybe u want to be a surgeon. In my opinion, PBL seems like a waste of time cuz u don't really know anything. Only recently, do I feel like I could really use that type of learning. If you know you're interested in Psych, neuro or surg, Columbia is a great place.

I don't skip every lecture though - i go to the ones I think might be interesting or are being given by good lecturers.

if this isn't a reason to go to P&S, i don't know what is.

 

[missbonnie]

Skipped it at the end? Gasp! Head and neck is so cool, so's the brachial plexus, I don't care what anyone says.

i should clarify , skipped most scheduled labs. Instead, I watched Anatomy DVDs (lead by some british dude, awesome DVDs!), and went in with a classmate during non-lab times when there were less ppl and we could look at several cadavers instead of just our own. Like going to class, lab was a waste of my time since I was never prepared for it .... but yes I do agree, head, neck & brachial plexus were cool stuff.

 

[epalantequevoy]

quick question: do cornell and columbia students both use the ny presbyterian hospital?

 

[Brainsucker]

quick question: do cornell and columbia students both use the ny presbyterian hospital?

Yes and no. Both hospitals are called NY Presbyterian, but Columbia uses what used to be called simply Presbyterian and Cornell uses what was once just New York Hospital. The medical schools and teaching activities are still seperate, the merger is just on the hospital administrative side.

 

[Pinner Doc]

quick question: do cornell and columbia students both use the ny presbyterian hospital?

Yes. But Columbia students use the Columbia branch, and Cornell students use the Cornell branch.

 

[pjm]

Cornell is definetely a bit more "non traditional" in it's student body, as in we have more older students, non-science majors, etc.

I'm another classmate of missbonnie/PinnerDoc.

I don't know if it's more than Cornell, but Columbia has a number of "nontraditional" students that are well integrated into the class. It may not be terribly obvious on a first look visit since some of us don't mind being mistaken for being a little younger than we really are.

With regards to schedule, a friend of mine at a PBL school (not Cornell) was shocked when I told her how many afternoons I had to myself after non-mandatory lecture. In second year I had time to run a P&S Club activity and start a research project that will probably run for another year or two.

Many Columbia faculty love to get you into the hospital to see what the day-to-day for a certain specialty is like. (I would hope that all medical schools are like this, but don't have any firsthand info on others.) I spent a few hours a week in the ER as part of the first-year clerkship. When I was thinking about surgery, I joined a lung transplant run from the initial phone call, to harvest, to end of surgery. In second year I saw a few medicine specialities that I won't see much of in third year, such as infectious disease. These were not hard to schedule, since we only have a handful of mandatory sessions, and even those start to feel less mandatory when you're in the middle of a neat case. Besides being exciting, you get to meet different faculty early on, which can help you when you are seeking out residency advice.

Wherever you go, medical school will be what you make of it. You should come in with a clear and open mind about what you want to do before you finish medical school. Your flexibility to see and do things in all parts of medicine decreases over time as your personal and professional responsibilities increase. Looking back as a rising M3, I don't even remember how many people we had per cadaver, and I went to every anatomy lab. I do remember vividly the experiences above, and I remember the small groups and lectures that were excellent learning experiences. If Columbia's schedule was less flexible, I wouldn't be as excited about medicine.

Once you've gathered all the info and done the visits, you will have to go with your gut. Rest assured that whatever you pick, you're going to enjoy medical school and go on to a great residency. Best of luck.