Cornell vs. Texas A&M vs. RVC

[pandolphilyn]

So I'm fortunate enough to be deciding between Cornell, Texas A&M, and RVC right now and am really really stuck in the decision making process. I am mostly deciding between Cornell and Texas A&M at this point, but RVC isn't completely off the table.

I know most everyone says to go to the cheapest school (Texas A&M for me), but I really want my decision to be about more than just that. My parents are luckily planning to help me out a little bit, but I'll definitely be graduating with some amount of debt at any of the schools (OOS for all). Regardless, I've run the numbers and I'm pretty confident I'll be able to live a comfortable life with any of my debt options, which is good enough for me.

I'm a very big quality of life person (in simple ways) and believe that compared to Texas A&M, I'll be happier at Cornell, especially after visiting both. I know the winters are harsh, but the general area is a lot prettier with more to do (hikes, etc.) and it seems to me that the study spaces would be a better environment for me. Cornell also just feels like a bigger validation for all the hard work and sacrifices I've made to get to this point.

For context, I'm mainly interested in either emergency medicine or neurology (also shelter med). I saw that Cornell's internship match rate is around 80% while Texas A&M's was around 50%. I liked PBL at Cornell from the example we got at visitation day, but not sure whether that means I'll like it long-term. I have also heard that the block system makes the classes you're taking at the same time more integrated with each other than at Texas A&M. Cornell would also give me the opportunity to potentially move to the UK temporarily within 5 years of graduating due to it being on the list of schools for the High Potential Individual visa. Elective classes/rotations at Cornell are also P/F. On the other hand, I liked Texas A&M's disaster response rotation and their partnership with SPCA a lot.

I guess I was just hoping for any advice (maybe more than just "go to the cheapest school") or any insight.

How is the work-life balance at any of the schools? What is the daily schedule? I heard Texas A&M is 8-5 while Cornell typically ends earlier in the day (not sure though). Would I even have enough free time for it to matter where I am? Texas A&M has exams almost every single Monday and Friday, which I'm not a big fan of. I definitely appreciate as much flexibility as possible and I know Cornell tests much less frequently. Is Cornell more small animal focused than Texas A&M?

Overall, I think my experience at Cornell might be worth some extra money (again, big experience/QOL person), but please correct me if I may be wrong and feel free to offer any alternative perspectives about that. Anyways, sorry for the insanely long post. I would appreciate any advice.

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[_rae_]

I can't speak to Texas A&M because it wasn't even on my list of potential places to apply to. Cornell, however, I know a little bit about, mostly anecdotally. One of the absolute best ER doctors I've ever worked with came from Cornell, he matched as a rotating intern at my hospital and got an offer to stay as a resident outside of match pretty early on. He was kind, compassionate, dedicated, and I think all of that was in spite of Cornell. It's a much more cutthroat environment, and the general consensus at some of the other vet schools is Cornell graduates are very book smart, but not always the best with day one competencies (still very good DVMs, but seemingly lacking in hands on experience). I would say if you have a thick skin, are motivated and ambitious, know you want to specialize, and thrive in that kind of environment, it's not a bad choice. I would caution that while accomplishing an Ivy is certainly worth celebration, each school produces competent DVMs. It comes down to personal choice and what works best for you, not the school being "better" than another.

UMN utilizes a block system (so we're learning physiology of respiration at the same time we're doing ungulate thoracic anatomy at the same time that we're doing respiratory histopathology) and it is definitely a benefit. Everything is integrated together, so it makes studying a little less daunting. Even though the classes have separate exams and separate focuses, you're essentially studying for everything all at once no matter what material you're focusing on.

Ithaca itself is lovely. The spouse was there for undergrad and I've visited a bunch of times. There's beautiful hikes and the finger lakes are right there, but it is sort of isolated. Any other bigger city outside of Cornell is going to be a couple hours drive (Syracuse, Albany). I don't know exactly what Cornell's schedule looks like, but there's definitely things to do in the immediate area. If Cornell didn't have the culture reputation it did, I would have loved to have gone there. And yes, they are more small animal/small animal specialty focused for sure. They have an insane hospital that I worked with a bit in undergrad, and any time I spoke to someone there they were very helpful.

Like I said, reputation and personal experience will differ from individual to individual. If you will be happier at Cornell based on your experiences, go there. But I would say, with the uncertainty of loans, if you can find happiness at A&M, it's the more fiscally responsible choice. With Cornell being $20K+ more, I personally would choose to make Texas work to save almost $100k over four years.

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

My friend had a similar decision as a Texas resident deciding between Cornell and TAMU. She ended up picking Cornell and I don't think she has any regrets at all. Obviously cost plays an important role, but it depends on what your priorities are as the person before me said.

 

[JaynaAli]

My friend had a similar decision as a Texas resident deciding between Cornell and TAMU. She ended up picking Cornell and I don't think she has any regrets at all. Obviously cost plays an important role, but it depends on what your priorities are as the person before me said.

Assuming your friend is still in school, I’d be interested in hearing if they still feel the same way once they’re actually paying back the loans and submitting a loan payment every month. I’m not saying their opinion is incorrect by any means, but I do think perspective usually changes as we move forward in life and graduate, and how you felt about theoretical debt as an incoming student is often different than how it feels when you’re getting that first (and every subsequent) bill. Most people I know that have graduated and are in repayment may not regret their school choice per se, but would do about anything to owe less.

And to the OP, I know you say your parents are helping you pay for things, but why make them pay more when the cheaper option will get you to the same place in the same time frame? If I had a way to gift my parents tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars (via them not having to pay higher rates and getting to keep that money they worked so hard for), I would love to do that.

 

[pandolphilyn]

I can't speak to Texas A&M because it wasn't even on my list of potential places to apply to. Cornell, however, I know a little bit about, mostly anecdotally. One of the absolute best ER doctors I've ever worked with came from Cornell, he matched as a rotating intern at my hospital and got an offer to stay as a resident outside of match pretty early on. He was kind, compassionate, dedicated, and I think all of that was in spite of Cornell. It's a much more cutthroat environment, and the general consensus at some of the other vet schools is Cornell graduates are very book smart, but not always the best with day one competencies (still very good DVMs, but seemingly lacking in hands on experience). I would say if you have a thick skin, are motivated and ambitious, know you want to specialize, and thrive in that kind of environment, it's not a bad choice. I would caution that while accomplishing an Ivy is certainly worth celebration, each school produces competent DVMs. It comes down to personal choice and what works best for you, not the school being "better" than another.

UMN utilizes a block system (so we're learning physiology of respiration at the same time we're doing ungulate thoracic anatomy at the same time that we're doing respiratory histopathology) and it is definitely a benefit. Everything is integrated together, so it makes studying a little less daunting. Even though the classes have separate exams and separate focuses, you're essentially studying for everything all at once no matter what material you're focusing on.

Ithaca itself is lovely. The spouse was there for undergrad and I've visited a bunch of times. There's beautiful hikes and the finger lakes are right there, but it is sort of isolated. Any other bigger city outside of Cornell is going to be a couple hours drive (Syracuse, Albany). I don't know exactly what Cornell's schedule looks like, but there's definitely things to do in the immediate area. If Cornell didn't have the culture reputation it did, I would have loved to have gone there. And yes, they are more small animal/small animal specialty focused for sure. They have an insane hospital that I worked with a bit in undergrad, and any time I spoke to someone there they were very helpful.

Like I said, reputation and personal experience will differ from individual to individual. If you will be happier at Cornell based on your experiences, go there. But I would say, with the uncertainty of loans, if you can find happiness at A&M, it's the more fiscally responsible choice. With Cornell being $20K+ more, I personally would choose to make Texas work to save almost $100k over four years.

Thank you so much for all this info!! I really appreciate it 🙂

 

[pandolphilyn]

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Assuming your friend is still in school, I’d be interested in hearing if they still feel the same way once they’re actually paying back the loans and submitting a loan payment every month. I’m not saying their opinion is incorrect by any means, but I do think perspective usually changes as we move forward in life and graduate, and how you felt about theoretical debt as an incoming student is often different than how it feels when you’re getting that first (and every subsequent) bill. Most people I know that have graduated and are in repayment may not regret their school choice per se, but would do about anything to owe less.

And to the OP, I know you say your parents are helping you pay for things, but why make them pay more when the cheaper option will get you to the same place in the same time frame? If I had a way to gift my parents tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars (via them not having to pay higher rates and getting to keep that money they worked so hard for), I would love to do that.

My parents are helping me with the same amount regardless of where I go which is why finances are a consideration for me. I would be taking out larger loans at Cornell, which I’ll be paying off myself. I would never “make” my parents pay anything.

But I get your point about theoretical debt vs. actual debt and would also be interested in the perspective of someone actively paying off debt after making a decision similar to my potential decision.

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

My parents are helping me with the same amount regardless of where I go which is why finances are a consideration for me. I would be taking out larger loans at Cornell, which I’ll be paying off myself. I would never “make” my parents pay anything.

But I get your point about theoretical debt vs. actual debt and would also be interested in the perspective of someone actively paying off debt after making a decision similar to my potential decision.

My friend is not receiving financial help from her parents, but she has received sizable scholarships from Cornell. It isn't anywhere close to the full cost difference or anything, but enough to help offset the cost since she isn't getting help from her parents.

She also just hasn't heard the best things about TAMU. A lot of the recent graduates I have heard from (I am also a texas resident), have said to avoid it at all cost which is way different than I expected to hear. I now have many texas resident pre-vet friends who are not going to apply to TAMU and only apply to tech, and OOS because of the horror stories they are hearing.

Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are.

 

[pandolphilyn]

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My friend is not receiving financial help from her parents, but she has received sizable scholarships from Cornell. It isn't anywhere close to the full cost difference or anything, but enough to help offset the cost since she isn't getting help from her parents.

She also just hasn't heard the best things about TAMU. A lot of the recent graduates I have heard from (I am also a texas resident), have said to avoid it at all cost which is way different than I expected to hear. I now have many texas resident pre-vet friends who are not going to apply to TAMU and only apply to tech, and OOS because of the horror stories they are hearing.

Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are.

Unfortunately Cornell isn’t offering me anything :/ Do you know if her scholarships are just based on parental income or if there are any that are merit based or anything like that? I’m curious to know what the horror stories are about TAMU if you’re able to share at all. That’s honestly the first time I’m hearing anything like that.

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

Unfortunately Cornell isn’t offering me anything :/ Do you know if her scholarships are just based on parental income or if there are any that are merit based or anything like that? I’m curious to know what the horror stories are about TAMU if you’re able to share at all. That’s honestly the first time I’m hearing anything like that.

ill pm you

 

[abrew13]

I would also be curious to hear these “horror stories”, as I have never once heard someone say to avoid TAMU at all costs. I’m not a born and raised Aggie by any means, so I don’t consider myself to have the Aggie bias (it was my instate and cheapest option), but my experience throughout first year hasn’t had any issues, nor have I heard of significant issues from upperclassmen or graduates.

OP, I know you say money isn’t a concern, but money should always be a concern. A&M instate tuition isn’t horrible, and they’re very good about matching students to scholarships. From my understanding, every student receives a scholarship of some sort, but the amount varies.

For the exams every Monday and Friday, it can be a bit of a pain, but it also really helps you to learn the material. Administration also likes to stress that since we take so many exams throughout school, the NAVLE is just one more test, and the recent NAVLE scores seem to agree with that mindset.

On the small animal side, the new small animal teaching hospital is opening in the Fall of 2027, so you would be in the second class of students to get to work in a $180M facility. I’m not much of a small animal person myself, but I think it’ll be very exciting to work in a brand new, fully updated facility.

If you have more specific questions, I’d be happy to answer for you!

 

[pp9]

She also just hasn't heard the best things about TAMU. A lot of the recent graduates I have heard from (I am also a texas resident), have said to avoid it at all cost which is way different than I expected to hear. I now have many texas resident pre-vet friends who are not going to apply to TAMU and only apply to tech, and OOS because of the horror stories they are hearing.

Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are.

At this point, probably every vet school has been the center of some salacious rumor or scandal and there is always someone who hasn't heard 'good things' about any given school. Truly. Find me a school that someone hasn't said this about.

Sorry to be direct here, and I'm not trying to pick on you with this but just give you a reality check. If you're going to say 'there are horror stories!' I'm in the camp where you need to either share your secondhand (or thirdhand...or fourthhand....) stories with the group, or just not say anything. It's one thing to raise your eyebrows over low NAVLE rates, for example, because we have that info as fact. It's another to tell someone to avoid a school because you heard 'something' from your friend, who may or may not have heard it from someone else. If you don't want to publicly post it, it's because you know it's straight gossip. So it's probably not worth sharing in a DM to a potential future student, either.

The rumor mill is just that, a rumor mill. Most of the crap I read about UofI isn't true, even when there was legit drama happening as I was attending. Shoot, there was an entire Reddit thread about UofI that went semi-viral recently, because people didn't like the wording of someone's rejection letter. People cast judgements on the entire school based on a single screenshot. Michigan State has been torn up on Reddit multiple times and each time, the OP has been a disgruntled student. I personally would not let the rumor mill sway me from a cheaper school. Your friends are making bad decisions based on gossip.

Also, life advice: You are posting on a public forum alleging that 'horrible things' are supposedly happening at this school after you yourself apparently applied to this school. SDN is never as anonymous as you think. At one point we were all able to figure out who we were without much effort, and that was without having access to the amount of info an adcom knows about you. Schools are also on SDN as well, whether they choose to make that known (see NCSU, for example) or not is up to them. Texas A+M in particular has at least one faculty/staff member that has posted. I'm not saying that schools have used SDN posts to make a decision about an applicant in the past (because I don't know that), but it's social media. Social media screws people over all the time.

TLDR: Don't spread rumors.

I would also be curious to hear these “horror stories”, as I have never once heard someone say to avoid TAMU at all costs.

Although I am no where near Texas geographically, I have also not heard this and I'm in many FB groups (we're all probably in them, honestly) where people would actually be talking about this if there were issues to be discussed. Not that this is proof, but any other vet school that has had issues has been brought up in at least one of the groups I'm in. There's also nothing popping up on Reddit for me, which is often one of the first 'sources' for this type of stuff.

If something legitimate ever comes out, I'll eat my words, but until then....

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

At this point, probably every vet school has been the center of some salacious rumor or scandal and there is always someone who hasn't heard 'good things' about any given school. Truly. Find me a school that someone hasn't said this about.

Sorry to be direct here, and I'm not trying to pick on you with this but just give you a reality check. If you're going to say 'there are horror stories!' I'm in the camp where you need to either share your secondhand (or thirdhand...or fourthhand....) stories with the group, or just not say anything. It's one thing to raise your eyebrows over low NAVLE rates, for example, because we have that info as fact. It's another to tell someone to avoid a school because you heard 'something' from your friend, who may or may not have heard it from someone else. If you don't want to publicly post it, it's because you know it's straight gossip. So it's probably not worth sharing in a DM to a potential future applicant, either.

The rumor mill is just that, a rumor mill. Most of the crap I read about UofI isn't true, even when there was legit drama happening as I was attending. Shoot, there was an entire Reddit thread about UofI that went semi-viral recently, because people didn't like the wording of someone's rejection letter. People cast judgements on the entire school based on a single screenshot. Michigan State has been torn up on Reddit multiple times and each time, the OP has been a disgruntled student. I personally would not let the rumor mill sway me from a cheaper school. Your friends are making bad decisions based on gossip.

Also, life advice: You are posting on a public forum alleging that 'horrible things' are supposedly happening at this school after you yourself apparently applied to this school. SDN is never as anonymous as you think. At one point we were all able to figure out who we were without much effort, and that was without having access to the amount of info an adcom knows about you. Schools are also on SDN as well, whether they choose to make that known (see NCSU, for example) or not is up to them. Texas A+M in particular has at least one faculty/staff member that has posted. I'm not saying that schools have used SDN posts to make a decision about an applicant in the past (because I don't know that), but it's social media. Social media screws people over all the time.

TLDR: Don't spread rumors.


Although I am no where near Texas geographically, I have also not heard this and I'm in many FB groups (we're all probably in them, honestly) where people would actually be talking about this if there were issues to be discussed. Not that this is proof, but any other vet school that has had issues has been brought up in at least one of the groups I'm in. There's also nothing popping up on Reddit for me, which is often one of the first 'sources' for this type of stuff.

If something legitimate ever comes out, I'll eat my words, but until then....

agreed!

that is why I tried to explicitly say, "Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are."

My information is from recent graduates and is anecdotal. I tried to get that point across. OP asked for information and I tried to give the information I was told. I did not want to share the information publicly because I would not want to out the other that told me information. You are right, most if not all vet schools have "horror stories". OP asked and I answered, I really didn't mean to offend you at all.

Again this is why I said "Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are."

 

[pp9]

agreed!

that is why I tried to explicitly say, "Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are."

My information is from recent graduates and is anecdotal. I tried to get that point across. OP asked for information and I tried to give the information I was told. I did not want to share the information publicly because I would not want to out the other that told me information. You are right, most if not all vet schools have "horror stories". OP asked and I answered, I really didn't mean to offend you at all.

Again this is why I said "Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are."

This isn't an offense thing, I'm pointing out that you are discouraging people from applying to this school/encouraging them to take on more expensive tuition over gossip. If these 'horrors' as as well known as you've implied here ("I now have many texas resident pre-vet friends who are not going to apply to TAMU and only apply to tech, and OOS because of the horror stories they are hearing."), there would have been news articles out by now. Vet schools have been in the news many times for things I wouldn't consider 'horrors,' so if things really are this bad at this school, the many people you know need to be reporting what they are witnessing.

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

This isn't an offense thing, I'm pointing out that you are discouraging people from applying to this school/encouraging them to take on more expensive tuition over gossip. If these 'horrors' as as well known as you've implied here ("I now have many texas resident pre-vet friends who are not going to apply to TAMU and only apply to tech, and OOS because of the horror stories they are hearing."), there would have been news articles out by now. Vet schools have been in the news many times for things I wouldn't consider 'horrors,' so if things really are this bad at this school, the many people you know need to be reporting what they are witnessing.

I said “Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are.”

I was just trying to relay information I was told. I didn’t mean it like the way you are saying. I think you are reading too far into this.

 

[pp9]

I said “Please note this is all second hand information though! A lot can really depend on who you are and what your priorities are.”

I was just trying to relay information I was told. I didn’t mean it like the way you are saying. I think you are reading too far into this.

When someone is going to pull out the word 'horrors' and allege that IS students are choosing not to apply to the school because something really awful is happening, it's pretty hard not to take that seriously. So perhaps a better choice of phrasing would have been appropriate if the 'info' you know is not that serious?

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

When someone is going to pull out the word 'horrors' and allege that IS students are choosing not to apply to the school because something really awful is happening, it's pretty hard not to take that seriously. So perhaps a better choice of phrasing would have been appropriate if the 'info' you know is not that serious?

Yes I apologize.
I did not use the correct wording. I should have used something less severe.