Corporate radiology and employed positions

[Neopolymath]

Hello, I'm a medical student strongly considering pursuing radiology instead of anesthesiology at this point. I have a few questions about the less desirable jobs in radiology so that I can fully evaluate my choices beyond just enjoying the medicine involved with each field. I'm business-minded and considering the ownership or lack thereof is important to me. I want to know exactly what kind of tradeoffs I can expect if I decide I want to live in a certain region and there are only corporate jobs when I get done with training. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

First, let me say that I'm asking about typical full time DR jobs not the night jobs, mammo, ER, IR etc. I'm also asking about employed positions in both PP and corporate jobs. I also don't know much about how corporate jobs are affecting the day to day work beyond reduced income so comments regarding that would be greatly appreciated as well.

One very large and worsening problem in anesthesia is that good, fair private practice partnership jobs are becoming increasingly rare. This appears to be happening at a higher rate than other fields even though radiology, derm, ER, etc. are all affected by these corporate parasites. It is apparently difficult to get a fair partnership track job in most major metro areas that are PP in anesthesia because there just aren't as many groups. Is it that bad in diagnostic radiology? Is this a true significant problem already or are people just noticing a slow trend toward corporate takeover? For the record, I want to live within an hour from a bigger city in the South... not Boston, Chicago, NYC, LA or any of that type of stuff.

In anesthesia, these AMC jobs pay hundreds of thousands less than what one would make in PP (ex. paying 350k for 550k+ level PP work), the staffing is always an issue, people work harder/take more call and night shifts in house, vacation is usually many weeks less, and supervision ratios are always higher. Obviously, any time you are an employee, be it in private practice or corporate practice, you will make less money because someone is skimming off the revenue you generate. In radiology, how much money are we talking? Is a Rad Partners employee making 50k, 100k, or 200k etc less than the same work in PP? I just need perspective on how bad this fleecing is.

Are you expected to read a lot more? How many less weeks vacation compared to partners in PP (I know this varies)? Other day to day changes I need to know about?

I don't plan to take a job like this if I pursue either field but I just want to know how bad it is because at least in anesthesia there might not be a choice unless my wife will follow me to legit BFE.

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[recycledpaper]

I believe RP takes 30% off the top, but could be wrong.

Right now, corporate jobs make up around 8% of all radiology jobs, so definitely not a huge amount. However, keep in mind that an additional quarter are from academic positions, which are essentially employed (not good either, as you have less autonomy and can be fired at any time without much negotiation leverage). Currently, 40-50% of jobs are independent, but with a downward trend.

Hopefully, as more and more trainees and new attendings become educated, they can make smarter decisions when it comes to how they want to practice.

 

[Neopolymath]

I believe RP takes 30% off the top, but could be wrong.

Right now, corporate jobs make up around 8% of all radiology jobs, so definitely not a huge amount. However, keep in mind that an additional quarter are from academic positions, which are essentially employed (not good either, as you have less autonomy and can be fired at any time without much negotiation leverage). Currently, 40-50% of jobs are independent, but with a downward trend.

Hopefully, as more and more trainees and new attendings become educated, they can make smarter decisions when it comes to how they want to practice.

Thanks for your reply. Do you think that hospital employed positions are marginally better than corporate PE-owned jobs?

 

[recycledpaper]

Thanks for your reply. Do you think that hospital employed positions are marginally better than corporate PE-owned jobs?

I would take a hospital-employed position over a PE job for sure.

 

[sievert_fever]

Not sure if you already frequent there, but the Aunt Minnie forums tend to get a little more traffic from attendings. There are tons of threads on the subject. Just be warned, they're a little feisty over there.

 

[Neopolymath]

Not sure if you already frequent there, but the Aunt Minnie forums tend to get a little more traffic from attendings. There are tons of threads on the subject. Just be warned, they're a little feisty over there.

I like 'em feisty. Thanks!

 

[Tiger100]

To OP:

No matter what field you choose, in the future the private practice will likely vanish in this country. Especially the recent pandemic is going to facilitate the whole system into a single payor or some sort of nationalized health system.
Unless you do something cosmetic, the private practice won't exist in the next decade, no matter which field you choose.

 

[deleted746658]

To OP:

No matter what field you choose, in the future the private practice will likely vanish in this country. Especially the recent pandemic is going to facilitate the whole system into a single payor or some sort of nationalized health system.
Unless you do something cosmetic, the private practice won't exist in the next decade, no matter which field you choose.

the funny thing is we just watched our govt totally botch the pandemic response. and this whole catastrophe is going to facilitate healthcare change... change to what? i'm not sure.

but when i hear the masses scream "this is why we need single payer universal healthcare" i'm just like.... really? our govt just demonstrated its gross incompetence, and now you want them in charge of everything?

but i agree. change is coming. myself along with other current and future trainees will never know what the good days were like. bummer. here's to a quarter million $ in debt, probably working for half of what you guys are currently making

 

[deleted941485]

the funny thing is we just watched our govt totally botch the pandemic response. and this whole catastrophe is going to facilitate healthcare change... change to what? i'm not sure.

but when i hear the masses scream "this is why we need single payer universal healthcare" i'm just like.... really? our govt just demonstrated its gross incompetence, and now you want them in charge of everything?

but i agree. change is coming. myself along with other current and future trainees will never know what the good days were like. bummer. here's to a quarter million $ in debt, probably working for half of what you guys are currently making

Crisis isn’t even over and the parties are already salivating over the changes to come. Payers and patients thank you to your face then continue to stab in you in back at the ballot box.

As for rads, pay is already stagnant. Starting salaries are what they were 5-10 years ago and the ceiling is lower. If I were you I’d be capping programs like opec nations capping oil wells.

 

[Tiger100]

the funny thing is we just watched our govt totally botch the pandemic response. and this whole catastrophe is going to facilitate healthcare change... change to what? i'm not sure.

but when i hear the masses scream "this is why we need single payer universal healthcare" i'm just like.... really? our govt just demonstrated its gross incompetence, and now you want them in charge of everything?

but i agree. change is coming. myself along with other current and future trainees will never know what the good days were like. bummer. here's to a quarter million $ in debt, probably working for half of what you guys are currently making

If you look at the history of the world, almost every crisis has resulted in increased centralization of power. In fact, many tyrannies have created crisis (for example war) to maintain their own existence.

Don't think about good old days or 100K of less or more salary. Do what you like and you will have enough to have a comfortable life.

 

[zero0]

If you look at the history of the world, almost every crisis has resulted in increased centralization of power. In fact, many tyrannies have created crisis (for example war) to maintain their own existence.

Don't think about good old days or 100K of less or more salary. Do what you like and you will have enough to have a comfortable life.

Ah the old Diocletian problem-reaction-solution. Woks every time.

Fwiw I've noticed that radiology has done a better job of preserving it's private practice sector relative to other specialties. Most of the jobs I see advertised are PP and there seems to be no shortage of them for now. Corporate takeover is there but not happening at an alarming rate as with specialties like EM and anesthesia. Hopefully that will continue to be the case but COVID is a wild card so anything can happen.

 

[Neopolymath]

Ah the old Diocletian problem-reaction-solution. Woks every time.

Fwiw I've noticed that radiology has done a better job of preserving it's private practice sector relative to other specialties. Most of the jobs I see advertised are PP and there seems to be no shortage of them for now. Corporate takeover is there but not happening at an alarming rate as with specialties like EM and anesthesia. Hopefully that will continue to be the case but COVID is a wild card so anything can happen.

Yeah it looks like the main thing to check out is the average age of radiologist vs how many are being produced each year and the projection for need. That seems like the only tangible threat to the field I can imagine. I'm not worried about AI or midlevels.