cosmetic plastics fellowship question

[chef]

hi guys - quick q: is the cosmetic plastic fellowship only for those who have completed either integrated plastics or plastics fellowship after gen surg? or can someone do the cosmetic plastic fellowship right after gen surg? thanks!

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[Winged Scapula]

hi guys - quick q: is the cosmetic plastic fellowship only for those who have completed either integrated plastics or plastics fellowship after gen surg? or can someone do the cosmetic plastic fellowship right after gen surg? thanks!

There is an aesthetic breast fellowship which accepts general surgeons in Westchester NY. I have not seen a facial or general aesthetic fellowship which accepts general surgeons without advanced plastics training.

I'll move this to the PRS forum where you'll get more informed responses.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I've seen unaccredited "aesthetic surgery" "fellowships" which cater to general surgeons.

 

[...to_the_OR!]

There are cosmetic surgery fellowships for 1 year that basically accept annyone - derm, ophtho, any surgical specialty... They are run by the "board" of cosmetic surgery. Which is a sham and is not recognized by the board of medical specialties. They are very shady. No one in the legitimate aesthetic community recognizes them. Basically there are great aesthetic fellowships - meeth, hunsted, etc... And they all require prs residency, there's a reason for that. Again beware the "board of cosmetic surgery". Someone doing it's fellowships and practicing cosmetic surgery without generally accepted pre-req training will open themselves up to Amazing amounts of legal risk, not to mention likely poor outcomes and unhappy patients. There is no shortcut through adequate training.

 

[Moola]

shady days

 

[Moravian]

I've seen unaccredited "aesthetic surgery" "fellowships" which cater to general surgeons.

Most of the aesthetic fellowships (and craniofacial fellowships) are unaccredited by the ACGME. Being ACGME approved means that there are rules governing the training (such as call, work hours, number of cases, etc.) the same as residency. It doesn't mean that the fellowships are inferior but you do have to be careful.

The aesthetic fellowship with Dr. Aston at MEETH is a great place and the fellows have a great deal of autonomy. At others, you might find yourself taking all of your attendings call, observing cases and not operating much. And, as pointed out earlier, these fellowships (ACGME or not) should not be confused with those offered by the "board" of cosmetic surgery.

 

[JackADeli]

not my cup of tea and I don't know if it still exists, but I have heard of

"Harvard Medical School Aesthetic and Breast Reconstruction Fellowship"

I can not speak to if it is any good or open to GSurgeons straight out or if it is a "superfellowship after PRS completion.

JAD

 

[Winged Scapula]

not my cup of tea and I don't know if it still exists, but I have heard of

"Harvard Medical School Aesthetic and Breast Reconstruction Fellowship"

I can not speak to if it is any good or open to GSurgeons straight out or if it is a "superfellowship after PRS completion.

JAD

That's the one that Robert Rey did (and talks about all the time as in, "I am Harvard trained").

 

[JackADeli]

That's the one that Robert Rey did (and talks about all the time as in, "I am Harvard trained").

I wonder if they are proud.....

 

[clinick82]

Most of the aesthetic fellowships (and craniofacial fellowships) are unaccredited by the ACGME. Being ACGME approved means that there are rules governing the training (such as call, work hours, number of cases, etc.) the same as residency. It doesn't mean that the fellowships are inferior but you do have to be careful.

The aesthetic fellowship with Dr. Aston at MEETH is a great place and the fellows have a great deal of autonomy. At others, you might find yourself taking all of your attendings call, observing cases and not operating much. And, as pointed out earlier, these fellowships (ACGME or not) should not be confused with those offered by the "board" of cosmetic surgery.

Why aren't more craniofacial fellowships ACGME accredited?

 

[WentForitandWon]

Beth Israel Deaconess has several fellowships.
http://www.bidmc.org/MedicalEducation/Departments/Surgery/PlasticandReconstructiveSurgery.aspx

Last year the aesthetic and breast reconstruction fellow was a PRS graduate who basically did a ton of DIEP flaps with several of the young attendings.
http://www.bidmc.org/MedicalEducati...andReconstructiveBreastSurgeryFellowship.aspx

There was also a body contouring fellow who was GSurg graduate.

from the APDS website here is the job posting for that fellowship.
http://www.apds.org/residency_positions_open.htm
January 2009--Harvard Plastic Surgery Fellowship--The Division of Plastic Surgery at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (BIDMC) and Harvard Medical School in Boston are offering a clinical fellowship in reconstructive and aesthetic plastic surgery. The fellowship will particularly focus on body contouring and facial plastic surgery. The fellow will participate in the teaching of plastic surgery residents in the Combined Harvard Plastic Surgery Residency Program and will have an academic appointment as a Clinical Fellow at Harvard Medical School. A one-year position is available, beginning on August 1st each calendar year. Physician applicants must have completed a residency program in plastic surgery or general surgery and be able to satisfy all of the requirements for licensure by the Massachusetts Board of Medical Registration. A competitive salary and comprehensive benefits package are offered. Interested applicants are encouraged to submit a cover letter along with their curriculum vitae and 3 letters of recommendation. Selection will be based on merit, without bias to gender, race, color, ethnic origin or sexual orientation. Contact: Sumner A. Slavin, M.D., Division Chief, and Samuel Lin, M.D., Division of Plastic Surgery, 110 Francis Street, Suite 5A, Boston, MA 02215, or, email: [email protected] and [email protected]. For information, contact Geoffrey Brahmer, Coordinator, 617-667-3758.

Don't know about the fellowships at the other Harvard Hospitals

 

[Moravian]

Why aren't more craniofacial fellowships ACGME accredited?

The short answers are time and money. The longer versions are:

1. If you have ever been through a site review by the ACGME, then you know part of the answer. It can be a painful process. There is a lot of paperwork and requirements that need to be done not only to get accreditation, but to maintain it as well.

2. Fellows need to be paid. If you have an ACGME fellowship, then you'll need to find a salary. Sometimes you can get the hospital to kick in some money, or the university, although this is getting tougher in the current economic environment. The last choice would be to use department funds. I say last choice because this means the plastic surgery faculty are going to have to fork over money to support a fellow that they may not work with on a daily basis. In a non-accredited fellowship, the department can bill for the fellow and use that money to pay their salary, not to mention bring in more cash to the department.

--M

 

[toofache32]

There are cosmetic surgery fellowships for 1 year that basically accept annyone - derm, ophtho, any surgical specialty... They are run by the "board" of cosmetic surgery. Which is a sham and is not recognized by the board of medical specialties. They are very shady. No one in the legitimate aesthetic community recognizes them. Basically there are great aesthetic fellowships - meeth, hunsted, etc... And they all require prs residency, there's a reason for that. Again beware the "board of cosmetic surgery". Someone doing it's fellowships and practicing cosmetic surgery without generally accepted pre-req training will open themselves up to Amazing amounts of legal risk, not to mention likely poor outcomes and unhappy patients. There is no shortcut through adequate training.

Just like the american board of oral & maxillofacial surgery. Therefore the entire oral surgery specialty must be a sham.

 

[...to_the_OR!]

OMFS is obviously a legit specialty, but it is a dental specialty not medical. I'm sure it's recognized/regulated by one of the dental boards, societies, or associations...

The point stands, the board of cosmetic surgery is ridiculous. It's an attempt to circumvent adequate training so people can make cash doing cosmetic surgery. The risk in practicing this way is immense - people lose their licenses this way. Not to mention it is unethical.

 

[toofache32]

OMFS is obviously a legit specialty, but it is a dental specialty not medical. I'm sure it's recognized/regulated by one of the dental boards, societies, or associations...

The point stands, the board of cosmetic surgery is ridiculous. It's an attempt to circumvent adequate training so people can make cash doing cosmetic surgery. The risk in practicing this way is immense - people lose their licenses this way. Not to mention it is unethical.

Yes, it's a dental specialty governed by the dental authorities. OMFS also overlaps with other specialties in facial trauma, craniofacial, oncology/reconstruction, and even cosmetics. I was just playing the devil's advocate and pointing out that the ABMS, while it's importance is certainly recognized, is not the final say on this stuff. I have zero interest in cosmetics, but I always find it interesting how we all think we know what everyone else's training entails.

 

[maxheadroom]

Yes, it's a dental specialty governed by the dental authorities. OMFS also overlaps with other specialties in facial trauma, craniofacial, oncology/reconstruction, and even cosmetics. I was just playing the devil's advocate and pointing out that the ABMS, while it's importance is certainly recognized, is not the final say on this stuff. I have zero interest in cosmetics, but I always find it interesting how we all think we know what everyone else's training entails.

I disagree. The ABMS has the mission of recognizing specialty certification in medical practice. The Cosmetic Surgery Board is in no way a legitimate certifying entity. Their primary criteria for granting certification is a check that is made out to them. Huh? While all sorts of practitioners try to circumvent real training in the race for the cosmetic dollar, the fact is that when you're hiding behind the name of "Cosmetic Surgery" because your real training obviously doesn't approximate appropriate specialization, it's pure and simple fraud.

 

[toofache32]

I disagree. The ABMS has the mission of recognizing specialty certification in medical practice. The Cosmetic Surgery Board is in no way a legitimate certifying entity. Their primary criteria for granting certification is a check that is made out to them. Huh? While all sorts of practitioners try to circumvent real training in the race for the cosmetic dollar, the fact is that when you're hiding behind the name of "Cosmetic Surgery" because your real training obviously doesn't approximate appropriate specialization, it's pure and simple fraud.

I agree that the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery is definately suspect. I'm just pointing out that it's not simply because they're not members of the ABMS.

 

[Doggie]

What about the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery? They have many fellowships that specialize in face and/or full body cosmetics.

So the gist of this thread is that if a surgeon is not a trained plastic surgery resident, he/she cannot legally call him/herself a cosmetic surgeon??

 

[...to_the_OR!]

Right now anyone can call themselves a cosmetic surgeon, as it is a very non-specific term. I venture to guess that this will change though as cosmetic surgery and the way it's marketed are always hot "scope of practice" issues. You can't call yourself a plastic surgeon if you have not completed plastic surgery training. You can't call yourself a facial plastic surgeon unless you completed ENT and did a FPS fellowship. These things are well established and are overseen by most state medical licensing authorities and other folks who deal with scope of practice stuff. There will hopefully soon be some kind of restriction on calling yourself a cosmetic surgeon, but no one has really cracked down yet... so it's the wild west for now.

Again... if a cosmetic surgery fellowship does not require legit PRS/FPRS/oculoplastic training it is likely pretty shady. Please see the multitude of previous posts regarding poor training = poor outcomes = unhappy patients = medicolegal nightmares. Just put in the work and train the right way.

 

[Doggie]

Right now anyone can call themselves a cosmetic surgeon, as it is a very non-specific term. I venture to guess that this will change though as cosmetic surgery and the way it's marketed are always hot "scope of practice" issues. You can't call yourself a plastic surgeon if you have not completed plastic surgery training. You can't call yourself a facial plastic surgeon unless you completed ENT and did a FPS fellowship. These things are well established and are overseen by most state medical licensing authorities and other folks who deal with scope of practice stuff. There will hopefully soon be some kind of restriction on calling yourself a cosmetic surgeon, but no one has really cracked down yet... so it's the wild west for now.

Again... if a cosmetic surgery fellowship does not require legit PRS/FPRS/oculoplastic training it is likely pretty shady. Please see the multitude of previous posts regarding poor training = poor outcomes = unhappy patients = medicolegal nightmares. Just put in the work and train the right way.

What's wrong with fellowships that accept OMFS and ENT residents? OMFS and ENT residents receive more head and neck surgical trainings than most other surgical residencies out there. Why do you think only plastic surgeons are competent cosmetic surgeons?

 

[Moravian]

Why do you think only plastic surgeons are competent cosmetic surgeons?

Can't you read? Those of us who did plastics or ENT followed by a plastics or facial plastics fellowship, or oral surgeons who do the same would be considered qualified. A "cosmetic surgeon" by name doesn't have to have any of that training to become a member of that board. I know of no trained plastic surgeon who calls himself a purely a "cosmetic surgeon" unless he/she was unable to pass the boards. Why, do you ask? Because the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery has as much impact as being a member of the American Board of Cosmetology (and even then, that's probably an insult to the cosmetologists).

If that's not a sufficient explanation, or if the multitude of posts on this from people who know what they're talking about aren't getting through to you, then it's hopeless.