Could I do a Caribbean MD since I don't want a competitive residency?

[zut212]

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I'm reading the differences between a Caribbean based MD at a top 3 school (Ross, AUC, and SGU), and a DO in the USA. I know...I know... I'm not trying to make this a "Caribbean MD *VS* DO" type of thread.

One thing that I noticed as I do my own research on this matter is that participants say that for a Caribbean based MD, it's more difficult to get matched into a competitive program for their residency. However, I'd like to stress that I'm *NOT* interested in any "competitive" residency program. I'm more interested in going into primary-care (not sure in which specialty) or in Family Medicine. I am most concerned about WHERE I would be working. I have NO interest in working in Little Rock, Arkansas, for example. I only want to work in the Boston, NYC, or Bay Area.

 

[MisterVeil]

If you ever change your mind, you could be screwed.

 

[Murphy Brown]

Boston, NYC, and the Bay Area are competitive locations, regardless of specialty. I think DO would serve you better. Aside from everything else, don't forget that half of the students in the Caribbean don't make it through med school. Yes, you can say that you won't be one of them, but I'm sure many people said that. Even people in U.S. allo schools fail a class or two. If those same people were in the Carib instead of a U.S. allo school, they'd be screwed.

Also, what happens during third year when you do rotations and fall in love with something a little more competitive. Then what?

 

[skatertudoroga]

I don't know what to suggest. But I personally would not limit myself to primary care even though something like 50% of students from u.s. m.d. schools end up in primary care. And I do know that even with primary care you can make good money, you know hospitalist pays well. and FM/internists can find interesting work on cruise ships or in urgent care or just in remote places like alaska or hawaii(or samoa). but 1 major advantage that u.s. students(even from the worst d.o. school) have is they can get free education from the military. that would make primary care much more attractive.
Maybe if you dont want the stiff competition of med school admissions you might try nursing? You know they can prescribe medications and work shifts. And some like crna have it really good. You might even have more free time to read and otherwise "seek knowledge".

 

[skatertudoroga]

Boston, NYC, and the Bay Area are competitive locations, regardless of specialty. I think DO would serve you better. Aside from everything else, don't forget that half of the students in the Caribbean don't make it through med school. Yes, you can say that you won't be one of them, but I'm sure many people said that. Even people in U.S. allo schools fail a class or two. If those same people were in the Carib instead of a U.S. allo school, they'd be screwed.

Also, what happens during third year when you do rotations and fall in love with something a little more competitive. Then what?

I wouldn't worry about failing classes if you're really motivated. But I would be really mad if i got 250 on step1 and was limited to family medicine..

 

[foofish]

Boston, NYC, and the Bay Area are competitive locations, regardless of specialty. I think DO would serve you better. Aside from everything else, don't forget that half of the students in the Caribbean don't make it through med school. Yes, you can say that you won't be one of them, but I'm sure many people said that. Even people in U.S. allo schools fail a class or two. If those same people were in the Carib instead of a U.S. allo school, they'd be screwed.

Also, what happens during third year when you do rotations and fall in love with something a little more competitive. Then what?

Exactly this. Even if you're applying for a primary care track in medicine at these locations, the cities you list have some of the most competitive residencies in the country (which makes the other residencies in the same locations also more competitive since you're not the only person who wants to go to these three cities)...internal medicine is just a required stepping stone.

Also, many many people change their mind about specialty once they're in medical school, so even though now you think you don't want to go into a competitive field that doesn't mean you won't when you're a 3rd/4th year.

I'd vote for a DO, it's more of a secure thing (both by chances of graduating medical school and then matching in a desirable specialty/geographic location).

I don't know what to suggest. But I personally would not limit myself to primary care even though something like 50% of students from u.s. m.d. schools end up in primary care.

You're not quite correctly interpreting the statistics. It's something like 50% of students in MD schools match into "primary care" specialties...but remember that internal medicine counts as one of those specialties, and a huge percentage of those students (particularly US MD) will ultimately be going on to complete subspecialty fellowships.

 

[Murphy Brown]

I wouldn't worry about failing classes if you're really motivated.

Sorry, but that's a really stupid thing to say. You don't think people who get into U.S. allo med schools are super motivated? They still fail. It's not like undergrad where it's very difficult to fail. In med school, a lot of people fail a class or two. You have no idea what med school is like until you get there. In the Caribbean, there is no hand-holding and second chances. It's sink or swim.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm reading the differences between a Caribbean based MD at a top 3 school (Ross, AUC, and SGU), and a DO in the USA. I know...I know... I'm not trying to make this a "Caribbean MD *VS* DO" type of thread.

One thing that I noticed as I do my own research on this matter is that participants say that for a Caribbean based MD, it's more difficult to get matched into a competitive program for their residency. However, I'd like to stress that I'm *NOT* interested in any "competitive" residency program. I'm more interested in going into primary-care (not sure in which specialty) or in Family Medicine. I am most concerned about WHERE I would be working. I have NO interest in working in Little Rock, Arkansas, for example. I only want to work in the Boston, NYC, or Bay Area.

First, most people change their minds at least once during med school as to what they want to go into. You probably will too. But by then you may have closed too many doors. Second, it's getting harder and harder to match well from offshore schools as US med schools increase their enrollment each year (with no increase in residency slots in sight). So what seems like it wouldn't be a bad primary care job that some offshore folks are waltzing into today may become a reach 4 years from now. Not to mention that offshore places have crazy attrition numbers so your odds of becoming a doctor simply by being admitted aren't basically a lock like if you attended a US program. It's a harder road and not one you should choose unless a first choice path doesn't pan out, after reasonable remediation attempts. That's really all there is to it. There is never any good argument to attend over a US program. There simply isn't.

 

[skatertudoroga]

Sorry, but that's a really stupid thing to say. You don't think people who get into U.S. allo med schools are super motivated? They still fail. It's not like undergrad where it's very difficult to fail. In med school, a lot of people fail a class or two. You have no idea what med school is like until you get there. In the Caribbean, there is no hand-holding and second chances. It's sink or swim.

Actually I took a lot of medical classes in a smp program and i only scored average in 1 class when I found out that I was getting rejected everywhere. I otherwise scored at least 1 standard deviation above average while to fail you needed to get 2 std's below average. I guess if you know going into caribbean that your career options are severely limited you will not have the motivation to put in the hours at the library. Look, I don't recommend caribbean. But I believe the fear of failure should be reserved for year 3. Thats when you'll realize just how much of a disadvantage you face just by going to the caribbean. If you realize this sooner you might not have the motivation to pass step1.

 

[JonathanMD]

I'm reading the differences between a Caribbean based MD at a top 3 school (Ross, AUC, and SGU), and a DO in the USA. I know...I know... I'm not trying to make this a "Caribbean MD *VS* DO" type of thread.

One thing that I noticed as I do my own research on this matter is that participants say that for a Caribbean based MD, it's more difficult to get matched into a competitive program for their residency. However, I'd like to stress that I'm *NOT* interested in any "competitive" residency program. I'm more interested in going into primary-care (not sure in which specialty) or in Family Medicine. I am most concerned about WHERE I would be working. I have NO interest in working in Little Rock, Arkansas, for example. I only want to work in the Boston, NYC, or Bay Area.

Most people don't go to the Caribbean by choice.

In your post you left out the most important ingredient regarding making a decision on where to apply: Your GPA, MCAT, and ECs.

Make your decision based on those facts. If you fall into the "Caribbean" category and becoming a doctor is still something you want to pursue, then go for it. But if you're already at that stage, it's no longer "US vs. Caribbean" it's "Caribbean vs. Re-evaluate Career Options."

(I currently attend Ross.)

 

[Ischemic]

Actually I took a lot of medical classes in a smp program and i only scored average in 1 class when I found out that I was getting rejected everywhere. I otherwise scored at least 1 standard deviation above average while to fail you needed to get 2 std's below average. I guess if you know going into caribbean that your career options are severely limited you will not have the motivation to put in the hours at the library. Look, I don't recommend caribbean. But I believe the fear of failure should be reserved for year 3. Thats when you'll realize just how much of a disadvantage you face just by going to the caribbean. If you realize this sooner you might not have the motivation to pass step1.

Yes, it's easy to focus on just studying for your science classes in an SMP program when you don't have other obligations that eat up your time. Not to mention you are more motivated while in the SMP because you're not in yet either. And yes, people do fail med school classes and it's quite easy to do it too. You'll realize this once you start.

 

[skatertudoroga]

Yes, it's easy to focus on just studying for your science classes in an SMP program when you don't have other obligations that eat up your time. Not to mention you are more motivated while in the SMP because you're not in yet either. And yes, people do fail med school classes and it's quite easy to do it too. You'll realize this once you start.

As I said a fail in med school is 2 standard deviations below the average. Sometimes thats merely theoretical and 0 people fail. Sometimes 1-2people out of 100. I would say that is based on some nervous problem. Like a gf dumped you or you found out you hate medicine. In the caribes I would be more concerned with doing everything right and still failing to get into a residency...

 

[DubVille]

According to my USMLE first aid 2010 book.... "52% of US citizen IMG's were accepted in the 2008 match in any specialty" (which according to the chart is a bit higher than previous years). The info supposedly comes from the ECFMG. I think this seems a bit low, but it still sounds like a huge gamble, and as others have said US MD schools and DO schools are turning out a lot more graduates, so I would expect it to get much more difficult by the time you are applying.

Just FYI:
The chart says 42% of non-US citizens were accepted in 2008 (which according to the chart is rapidly decreasing each year)
The chart also says 94% of MD's and DO's were accepted in the match (Only looking at allopathic match)

 

[Gabby]

Actually I took a lot of medical classes in a smp program and i only scored average in 1 class when I found out that I was getting rejected everywhere. I otherwise scored at least 1 standard deviation above average while to fail you needed to get 2 std's below average. I guess if you know going into caribbean that your career options are severely limited you will not have the motivation to put in the hours at the library. Look, I don't recommend caribbean. But I believe the fear of failure should be reserved for year 3. Thats when you'll realize just how much of a disadvantage you face just by going to the caribbean. If you realize this sooner you might not have the motivation to pass step1.

Sorry, but an SMP isn't med school. There are two people in my current med school class who did well as classmates in their SMP (a reputable one too). They both failed a class first year. It really isn't difficult to fail in med school. The difference in U.S. schools vs. Caribbean schools is that if you're in trouble, the U.S. schools will do everything they can to help you and get you to graduation. The Caribbean schools couldn't give a damn.

 

[Gabby]

As I said a fail in med school is 2 standard deviations below the average. Sometimes thats merely theoretical and 0 people fail. Sometimes 1-2people out of 100. I would say that is based on some nervous problem.

Are you talking about exams? I don't know what med school you took this SMP at, but that isn't the norm. Many, many people fail exams. We had some averages on our exams hovering in the low 70s.

 

[Law2Doc]

As I said a fail in med school is 2 standard deviations below the average. Sometimes thats merely theoretical and 0 people fail. Sometimes 1-2people out of 100. I would say that is based on some nervous problem. Like a gf dumped you or you found out you hate medicine...

Um no. It would be nice if this were true, but in fact there will be a good handful of people in each med school class who fail a test, a few who fail a course and have to remediate, and one or two who have to redo the whole year, in most US allo med schools. It RARELY has to do with a nervous problem. In most cases it has to do with difficulty adjusting to the increased volume of material, and inability to become efficient at studying in a very different environment than college. You have to realize that everyone in US allo med school got there because they got their share of A's, and yet someone has to be the bottom of the class. Med school represents a difficult time for some folks who spent their lives in the top half of the class, only to learn that in med school half of them have to be in the bottom half. And some don't adjust well to this. Others continue to try to rely on the brain power that got them through college without really studying, or by last minute cramming, and find it doesn't really work at the next level.

So people go through a period of adjustment, and some sink and some swim. The folks who sink rarely have an event you can point to to explain why they sunk. All I can say is you are going to work really hard in med school, and may very well not get rewarded for the hard work in the same way as you were in college. Looking at standard deviations is pretty meaningless because it doesn't matter that few people fail if you are one of the few. It shouldn't provide great reassurance because you have no way of knowing if you are average, above, or below until you get there. (ie The statistics surrounding the below average folks aren't as optimistic if you look at them as a group.)

Bottom line is you are going to have to work hard to do well in med school, and that is in places with very low attrition. In an offshore school where attrition is 20-40%, you are going to have to be a superstar, notwithstanding that the average person in your class won't be as credentialed. You either do this planning to put in 100% effort, or don't bother. But for sure don't rely on statistics to get you through -- it's doing the work that's the only thing that will get you through.

 

[Baron Samedi]

If you're interested in primary care, DO is 100% the way to go in comparison to Carib MD. EVERY osteopathic school places an emphasis on primary care physicians and pumps out some of the best. The fact that you're not interested in ultra-competitive specialties makes DO an even better fit, as it's said sometimes it's more difficult to get into the tougher specialties out of DO.

Honestly, your reasons for going to the Carib are more reasons to go DO. Carib is for folks who didn't get into DO or have some fascination with the letters behind their name.

 

[SweetRain]

So you want to do a Caribb MD and be picky about the location of your residency? Caribb MD's have a slim chance of getting a residency anywhere in the US.
You do realize that many US MD's also prefer to live in East/West coast?