Could stripping in undergrad affect job opportunities in the future?

[Venko]

I just received my adult entertainer's license and I'm a freshman. However, this may end up being a big mistake as it may come up in background checks. Now I'm not doing anything illegal so I don't see the problem, but I'm worried that future employers will.

If it matters, I'm planning on going into Pharmacy or Dermatology

Thanks everyone

To seriously answer your question, I don't believe the background checks or application will identify you as an adult entertainer. Google / Facebook etc may potentially expose this. The background checks that programs I have reviewed applications for involve criminal or illegal activities more than controversial but legal ones.

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[Anastomoses]

I know plenty of women who stripped in their 20's who went on to become lawyers, doctors, feminist leaders, professors and even one who became a government linguistics specialist. Want to know why? It never showed up as a thing they had to report on their applications because it was legal. And they are well respected in their fields because they are brilliant women who kick ass all day, every day. Do they talk about their stint at stripping at company parties? No, but I'm sure a few close friends know. *You* give ****s because you don't know any strippers. People well into their chosen careers do not generally give ****s because it's results that count - board scores, shelf scores, getting your damn job done without being a liability.

And as for the greater gestalt of this conversation, women have the right to own AND SELL their sexuality, and do it all the time whether they're in the sex industry or not. If that wasn't the case, men wouldn't expect sex after buying a woman dinner and drinks. It's built into our culture. Some women are better at taking advantage of that cultural peculiarity than others, and they sincerely don't care what the men think of them, because face it: the men are there spending money to look at women they wouldn't have a chance with outside the club. If you think of it that way, who looks more pathetic? Don't hate theplayers, hate the game.

Aren't you the little idealist.

What is the name of that female attorney who tried OJ? Google Marcia Clark...she didnt even strip; poor thing only went to a beach topless.

I have lots more to say in response to several posts but no time! Catch you all in a bit.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

And as for the greater gestalt of this conversation, women have the right to own AND SELL their sexuality, and do it all the time whether they're in the sex industry or not.

Not sure that's entirely true.

 

[Dylasa]

Aren't you the little idealist.

What is the name of that female attorney who tried OJ? Google Marcia Clark...she didnt even strip; poor thing only went to a beach topless.

I have lots more to say in response to several posts but no time! Catch you all in a bit.

Eh, I might be, but at 45, I'm kind of proud of that. In my experience, for the average person going into conservative fields, it's not as much of a career ender as this thread is making it out to be. Marcia Clark was part of a major media case, and that will have different rules than getting a residency and a quiet practice as a pharmacist or dermatologist. What I'm saying is that her past stint as a stripper will probably not hurt her, and if it keeps her out of jobs, well god, who wants to work with a bunch of uptight douchebags if you aren't one? Is it something she should talk about with her peers? No, unless she's very close to them. Will it make her a worse doctor? Absolutely not, and in fact, it might give her experiences that will serve her well as a physician.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Just don't model any thongs. That's where the line has been drawn.

 

[xffan624]

*You* give ****s because you don't know any strippers. .

Just wanted to clarify that I have yet to express my personal opinion on her job choice. I am merely speculating based on my experience in the medical and other male-dominated fields. I don't know if any of my professional colleagues stripped at some point in their career, cause honestly I could care less if they did or not. It's not something I ask when I meet them.

 

[evilbooyaa]

What I'm saying is that her past stint as a stripper will probably not hurt her, and if it keeps her out of jobs, well god, who wants to work with a bunch of uptight douchebags if you aren't one? Is it something she should talk about with her peers? No, unless she's very close to them. Will it make her a worse doctor? Absolutely not, and in fact, it might give her experiences that will serve her well as a physician.

If someone in her work finds out and the knowledge gets out there, it will affect OP in one way or the other. It's all well and good if people find out after she graduates residency, but considering that admission to residency is the ultimate goal of medical school, it could be a limiting factor in her residency aspirations (if it was discovered in anyway).

 

[didymus]

*You* give ****s because you don't know any strippers. People well into their chosen careers do not generally give ****s because it's results that count - board scores, shelf scores, getting your damn job done without being a liability.

And as for the greater gestalt of this conversation, women have the right to own AND SELL their sexuality, and do it all the time whether they're in the sex industry or not...Don't hate the players, hate the game.

 

[Dylasa]

If someone in her work finds out and the knowledge gets out there, it will affect OP in one way or the other. It's all well and good if people find out after she graduates residency, but considering that admission to residency is the ultimate goal of medical school, it could be a limiting factor in her residency aspirations (if it was discovered in anyway).

I guess my question is, how would it be found out in her residency applications if she was discreet about it throughout her medical education? If I remember correctly, residencies are primarily concerned with any criminal activity, and ethical/academic faux pas that may have occurred in medical school. I know someone who hired a stripper to perform at a medical school function who will managed to match very well. I'm not saying she should be cavalier about it. I'm just saying that if she maintains some discretion and common sense about that part of her life, the sky is not falling, Chicken Little. Getting picked up for smoking crack while prostituting yourself on the corner might be a massive hurdle, on the other hand, because both are illegal.

 

[Dylasa]

I guess my question is, how would it be found out in her residency applications if she was discreet about it throughout her medical education? If I remember correctly, residencies are primarily concerned with any criminal activity, and ethical/academic faux pas that may have occurred in medical school. I know someone who hired a stripper to perform at a medical school function who still managed to match very well. I'm not saying she should be cavalier about it. I'm just saying that if she maintains some discretion and common sense about that part of her life, the sky is not falling, Chicken Little. Getting picked up for smoking crack while prostituting yourself on the corner might be a massive hurdle, on the other hand, because both are illegal.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I guess my question is, how would it be found out in her residency applications if she was discreet about it throughout her medical education? If I remember correctly, residencies are primarily concerned with any criminal activity, and ethical/academic faux pas that may have occurred in medical school. I know someone who hired a stripper to perform at a medical school function who will managed to match very well. I'm not saying she should be cavalier about it. I'm just saying that if she maintains some discretion and common sense about that part of her life, the sky is not falling, Chicken Little. Getting picked up for smoking crack while prostituting yourself on the corner might be a massive hurdle, on the other hand, because both are illegal.

Have you heard about the Duke Freshman who does porn, was recognized on campus, and now is the target of harassment and slut shaming? She wasn't going around telling everybody she was doing porn. All it takes is someone to see you at your job one time, followed by one time out in public, and dots can be connected.

For example, what if one of her classmates goes to a strip club, sees her performing, then tells all his friends? Then one of his friends interviews at medical school with her, and tells all the other interviewees (and interviewers) about the girl who used to strip sitting out in the waiting room?

In this technological world, there is really not a lot you can assume to be truly secret. Skeletons stay in the closet as long as no one comes looking for them. I know my example is a bit extreme, but less crazy things have happened in this world. Frankly I'd probably be a little surprised (if someone I knew throughout med school used to be a stripper, which there probably is at least 1 or 2 out of my class) but I'd eventually get over it. I'm not saying she's 100% going to get caught. I'm saying that there is a > 0% chance of someone finding out who can hurt her medicine aspirations. It's up to her if she wants to take that risk or not. All I can say is that, were I in her position, I would not take that risk.

 

[didymus]

What I'm saying is that her past stint as a stripper will probably not hurt her, and if it keeps her out of jobs, well god, who wants to work with a bunch of uptight douchebags if you aren't one? Is it something she should talk about with her peers? No, unless she's very close to them. Will it make her a worse doctor? Absolutely not, and in fact, it might give her experiences that will serve her well as a physician.

Seriously, yikes.

I wasn't aware that one who didn't silently approve of (or vocally laude) another's sexual exploits was automatically an uptight douchebag. That's an interesting rubric by which you judge the value of others.

Also, your posts read like you have personally associated with an inordinate amount of strippers in your day.

Women can do whatever the hell they want to with their bodies. We get it. It's totally up to the individual lady if she wants to parade her ta-tas on stage or camera as some form of deluded, self-absorbed feminist declaration. I'm sure that's what Susan B. Anthony had in mind all along, anyway. Well, men (and other women, for that matter) have every right to make inferences about the capacity for rational thought, non-impulisve behavior, and emotional stability of that individual as well. You don't have to like it, but it is exactly what happens.

All people make judgements about others based upon the decisions we are aware of they have made in life. If you cannot conceive how someone would be judged poorly in a professional setting because he or she sold sex in the past, then you need to seriously get with the program.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I wonder how the med student that was posing nude on reddit will fare. I'm guessing (okay, I'm more than guessing), that any searching of her name for a residency app will link to pics. Not a totally similar situation to stripping, but I'm guessing the same issues that people are discussing ITT could come up.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I wonder how the med student that was posing nude on reddit will fare. I'm guessing (okay, I'm more than guessing), that any searching of her name for a residency app will link to pics. Not a totally similar situation to stripping, but I'm guessing the same issues that people are discussing ITT could come up.

Yeah I remember that. I think what she did will be more career damaging than stripping (as pics/videos are generally not OK in strip clubs), because her pics are on the internet now, meaning they can never be deleted. A stripper can generally deny her history if it's not on the internet.

 

[Dylasa]

Seriously, yikes.

I wasn't aware that one who didn't silently approve of (or vocally laude) another's sexual exploits was automatically an uptight douchebag. That's an interesting rubric by which you judge the value of others.

Also, your posts read like you have personally associated with an inordinate amount of strippers in your day.

Women can do whatever the hell they want to with their bodies. We get it. It's totally up to the individual lady if she wants to parade her ta-tas on stage or camera as some form of deluded, self-absorbed feminist declaration. I'm sure that's what Susan B. Anthony had in mind all along, anyway. Well, men (and other women, for that matter) have every right to make inferences about the We get it. It's totally up to the individual lady if she wants to parade her ta-tas on stage or camera as some form of deluded, self-absorbed feminist declaration.of that individual as well. Well, men (and other women, for that matter) have every right to make inferences about the capacity for rational thought, non-impulisve behavior, and emotional stability of that individual as well. You don't have to like it, but it is exactly what happens.

All people make judgements about others based upon the decisions we are aware of they have made in life. If you cannot conceive how someone would be judged poorly in a professional setting because he or she sold sex in the past, then you need to seriously get with the program.

My first career was as a modern dancer and artist, so yeah, I do know a lot of ex-strippers, and their previous livelihoods aren't hurting their current careers at all. If anything, stripping gave them insight into a wide variety of things that they come up against in their jobs. As someone who has a lot of peripheral knowledge of that industry through close associates, I can say you are completely wrong on every point of this:

We get it. It's totally up to the individual lady if she wants to parade her ta-tas on stage or camera as some form of deluded, self-absorbed feminist declaration.

Women strip for a lot of reasons, probably the chief one that it's the easiest way to escape poverty and/or support a drug habit. It doubt it has anything to do with feminism on a personal level. The thing is, people who make it through the pre-med curriculum (or pre-law, or learn 10 languages, or ****, just graduate from college), actually don't deserve to have inferences made about their

capacity for rational thought, non-impulisve behavior, and emotional stability of that individual as well.

These are shrewd business women who are exploiting men's loneliness and privileged bull**** to make a LOT of money. All of my stripper friends who graduated from undergrad did so pretty much debt free. None of them needed to marry rich, although a few of them did. They are flat out ballers in their fields, gaining accolates and making bank. Discretion has played a large part of that, but it plays a part in your life, too, if you have pics of you passed out cold on tequilla on the interwebz.

Now, is stripping awesome for everyone? No. Lots of women end up drug addicted, confused messes. But those are not the women we're talking about, so don't confound the two groups. "Stripper" is a job, not a character or intelligence descriptor. The only people who need to "get with the program" are young people who haven't met one outside a club.

 

[tco]

Me personally? I would not be keen on sharing rounds with a former Chippendale Dancer. Why? Because they are mimbos. Furthermore, it strongly implies that this person lacks professionalism, is complicit in objectifying his sex, and likely has unhealthy personal relationships. All things I would consider unbecoming of a medical professional at any level. That's just me. I would feel the same about a female who was a stripper. I'm not an old, white male, either--so I wonder what that does to your argument.

What does your professional life have to do with your personal life? I'd take a physician as my own no matter their personal life if they do their damn job. I couldn't care less if they were actively stripping at nights as long as they provided me with quality medical care. Working along side them would give you a few interesting topics, unless you're a prude, which I'm thinking is pretty accurate.


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[Brain Bucket]

I'd like to think that people in my class were once secretly strippers, but that isn't likely 🙁

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[didymus]

What does your professional life have to do with your personal life? I'd take a physician as my own no matter their personal life if they do their damn job. I couldn't care less if they were actively stripping at nights as long as they provided me with quality medical care. Working along side them would give you a few interesting topics, unless you're a prude, which I'm thinking is pretty accurate.

I don't quite understand how you are so easily able to compartmentalize personal life and professional life. I just see it as life in general. Everything is connected.

Also, thinking of someone as something like a prude is so arbitrary. I couldn't possibly care less if someone thinks of me as prudish because I take issue with behaviors I view as generally harmful to people and societies. It's like there is this strong push by many people these days to get everyone else to be accepting or approving of their personal (often sexual) choices regardless of what they are. There is a belief that pervades certain segments of society that personal choices are just a matter of expression (like art), are just matters of taste, and cannot be judged against any sort of consistent moral standard. I disagree. I think personal, private choices are deeply connected to how someone is as a person, and that how someone is cannot be turned off like a light switch when they clock in for morning rounds.

 

[username456789]

I think personal, private choices are deeply connected to how someone is as a person, and that how someone is cannot be turned off like a light switch when they clock in for morning rounds.

I disagree. I'm a filthy, sophomoric, awful person in real life, but the nicest Dermatologist you'll ever meet, guaranteed.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I disagree. I'm a filthy, sophomoric, awful person in real life, but the nicest Dermatologist you'll ever meet, guaranteed.

Hey. That wasn't me. Misquotes FTL. I agree with you.

 

[mulberry]

Have you heard about the Duke Freshman who does porn, was recognized on campus, and now is the target of harassment and slut shaming? She wasn't going around telling everybody she was doing porn. All it takes is someone to see you at your job one time, followed by one time out in public, and dots can be connected.

For example, what if one of her classmates goes to a strip club, sees her performing, then tells all his friends? Then one of his friends interviews at medical school with her, and tells all the other interviewees (and interviewers) about the girl who used to strip sitting out in the waiting room?

In this technological world, there is really not a lot you can assume to be truly secret. Skeletons stay in the closet as long as no one comes looking for them. I know my example is a bit extreme, but less crazy things have happened in this world. Frankly I'd probably be a little surprised (if someone I knew throughout med school used to be a stripper, which there probably is at least 1 or 2 out of my class) but I'd eventually get over it. I'm not saying she's 100% going to get caught. I'm saying that there is a > 0% chance of someone finding out who can hurt her medicine aspirations. It's up to her if she wants to take that risk or not. All I can say is that, were I in her position, I would not take that risk.

Just to clear some things up here, stripping and porn are 2 completely different beasts. Most strip clubs don't allow cameras. Porn? Yeah, everyone and their mother can be watching.

 

[username456789]

Hey. That wasn't me. Misquotes FTL. I agree with you.

Bizarre, I have no idea how that happened. Edited.

 

[didymus]

I disagree. I'm a filthy, sophomoric, awful person in real life, but the nicest Dermatologist you'll ever meet, guaranteed.

It isn't a question of how nice you are in your professional setting. I'm sure strippers are very nice in their settings as well. I'm talking about character: one's strength of judgment, maturity, and ethics. If I were your superior or potential superior, and it became known to me that you were filthy, sophomoric, and an awful person outside of work, I would not hire you, or so would keep my eye out for a way to fire you. I don't want that kind of person on my team, because he can't be trusted. Why not? Because you just described your character. Who you are when no one is around is who you actually are at your core. Filthy, awful, and immature people have no place in a setting where caring for the sick and injured is what is asked of them.

Again--don't care that you are nice. In some ways you just described yourself as a sociopath. Those folks can be extremely nice too, ya know.

Also, as a patient I would be terrified of you if it came to light that you are as you described. I would be worried about what you would say about me as a patient behind my back, and what you may do with personal details about my life that I may share with you as my doctor.

It's character that I'm talking about. Not whether someone can fake being a decent person at work. Besides, those things we stuff away when we clock in have a way of creeping to the surface eventually. Carlos Danger ring any bells?

 

[atomi]

Whoa, whoa. There is a major difference between being a dancer and porn star in terms of a person's character. Yes, some dancers use their on stage performance as a way of advertising their side business (hooking), but certainly not all do. Not all dancers take all of their clothes off or let clients touch them. Get off your high horses people. Normal looking people do all kinds of sick and twisted stuff in their private lives that you would have no idea about. Erotic dancing is pretty benign when it comes down to the sexual depravity humans are capable of. Somehow its ok for male residents and doctors to frequent strip clubs but if a girl danced for a few years in college, now she can't be a physician when she's 30 because her character is obviously deviant and a sociopath? What a crock of...

 

[evilbooyaa]

Somehow its ok for male residents and doctors to frequent strip clubs but if a girl danced for a few years in college, now she can't be a physician when she's 30 because her character is obviously deviant and a sociopath? What a crock of...

False equivalencies. I don't have a lot of reservations about a former stripper, but the true comparison is comparing a female stripper to a male stripper (or at least something like a Chippendale's dancer). I will agree with you and mulberry that stripping and porn are two very different things with different levels of societal acceptance (in my eyes at least).

 

[didymus]

Whoa, whoa. There is a major difference between being a dancer and porn star in terms of a person's character. Yes, some dancers use their on stage performance as a way of advertising their side business (hooking), but certainly not all do. Not all dancers take all of their clothes off or let clients touch them. Get off your high horses people. Normal looking people do all kinds of sick and twisted stuff in their private lives that you would have no idea about. Erotic dancing is pretty benign when it comes down to the sexual depravity humans are capable of. Somehow its ok for male residents and doctors to frequent strip clubs but if a girl danced for a few years in college, now she can't be a physician when she's 30 because her character is obviously deviant and a sociopath? What a crock of...

Ummm... I don't remember anyone suggesting that all strippers are hookers. Someone on the pro-stripper side of the argument did suggest that all strippers are "shrewd business women," however--and it was just about the most misinformed and absurd point made yet.

People keep bringing up the argument about male docs going to strip clubs while criticizing women for stripping. Does anyone making this point have an actual example of a real life male physician who directed criticism towards women who are strippers while also being known for patronizing strip clubs? I would bet that the same docs who go to strip clubs are probably those who justify their actions, and put the women who strip up on a pedestal. That would make a lot more sense since it is much easier to look oneself in the mirror the next day if you believe and promote the idea that the women being objectified are actually some form of empowered, feminine, anti-patriarchy heroes, than seeing them as the used-and-abused flesh that they actually are.

I'm also tired of people accusing those who criticize things like the sex industry of being self-righteous, or hypocritical, or misogynistic, or prude, or whatever other pejorative classification of people. Observing an industry or action as harmful to an individual and to a society does not make someone prudish. It makes them astute. What is strange to me is how on a forum full of people who work in a field that is meant to promote health and steer people away from harmful behavior, there are so many threads with people applauding or justifying unhealthy behaviors.

 

[username456789]

It isn't a question of how nice you are in your professional setting. I'm sure strippers are very nice in their settings as well. I'm talking about character: one's strength of judgment, maturity, and ethics. If I were your superior or potential superior, and it became known to me that you were filthy, sophomoric, and an awful person outside of work, I would not hire you, or so would keep my eye out for a way to fire you. I don't want that kind of person on my team, because he can't be trusted. Why not? Because you just described your character. Who you are when no one is around is who you actually are at your core. Filthy, awful, and immature people have no place in a setting where caring for the sick and injured is what is asked of them.

Again--don't care that you are nice. In some ways you just described yourself as a sociopath. Those folks can be extremely nice too, ya know.

Also, as a patient I would be terrified of you if it came to light that you are as you described. I would be worried about what you would say about me as a patient behind my back, and what you may do with personal details about my life that I may share with you as my doctor.

It's character that I'm talking about. Not whether someone can fake being a decent person at work. Besides, those things we stuff away when we clock in have a way of creeping to the surface eventually. Carlos Danger ring any bells?

You are unintentionally hilarious and ridiculous.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Hey OP, the answer to your question is yes.

 

[didymus]

You are unintentionally hilarious and ridiculous.

 

[atomi]

Again, and I don't how to make this any more clear to you, dancing and hooking/porn are two totally separate things. You are using terms like "sex industry" in order to try to associate dancers and strippers with porn stars and call girls so that you can attack them. This is called a strawman, and it is a classic logical fallacy used when one doesn't have a strong argument. An additional logical fallacy is you accusing erotic dancing of being "harmful" and "unhealthy," yet you provide absolutely zero evidence to support these claims. Your claim that people should not be labeled as prudes but rather astute for being prejudiced against dancers is predicated on the notion that you are right and they are wrong. This is a classic combination of psuedoscientific and psuedochristian reasoning to attack those who are being successful at something your rigid upbringing never allowed you to consider as a possibility for yourself. You are jealous that girls are making 2 grand a night dancing on stage, and you want to punish them by making sure that they have to pay for their actions for the rest of their lives by never being able to have a legitimate career. This is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

Do not misunderstand me. Having sex for money (hooking and porn films) is an absolute disgrace to the human race -- both the selling and buying of it. Yet there are those who can only see sexuality in terms of black and white. They are unable to separate the concept of the body (nudity) from the concept of act (sexual intercourse). Posing nude or stripping is not "sex" work. You cannot get pregnant by dancing naked. You cannot get an STD by dancing naked. It may not be something you are personally comfortable with. But to treat someone as a pariah for doing it is horrible. It is saying "you stepped out of line, you angered God by showing your boobs, you can never be forgiven for this, and you can never be allowed to have anything but the most denigrating of work and social status for the rest of your life." I have no idea what your religion is, but it sounds strongly fundamentalist Christian because they are obsessed with making women pay for displaying any type of sexuality before marriage. Female sexual purity is a badge of honor to the family. Birth control is opposed because it makes it possible for girls to hide their sexual misconduct. Revealing clothing is opposed because in order to be pure, you must naturally be ashamed of your body and hide it. Here's a radical notion. A girl can be a stripper and be a virgin. Remember that victoria's secret model? Adriana Lima? She made millions exposing nearly everything. She was virgin until her late 20s. Was she a sex worker too? Should we keep her out of the medical profession because of her character? Or is it ok because she always kept her nipples mostly covered? On the other hand, there are myriad girls in medical school who never stripped but have slept with 20+ guys they have picked up at bars. Is their character better than strippers?

 

[Dylasa]

Someone on the pro-stripper side of the argument did suggest that all strippers are "shrewd business women," however--and it was just about the most misinformed and absurd point made yet.

Ah, that was me, and the women I know who made 2k/night ended up doing better for themselves financially through education, investments and business than a lot of investment bankers I know. Given that I know about 20 strippers well, and you know about maybe none, who here is more likely to be misinformed and absurd? ETA: I did not say that all strippers are shrewd business women. I'm sure some are crack addicts and some are stupid, and some are just moms trying to put food on the table. But some are the smartest women I've ever met.

People keep bringing up the argument about male docs going to strip clubs while criticizing women for stripping. Does anyone making this point have an actual example of a real life male physician who directed criticism towards women who are strippers while also being known for patronizing strip clubs? I would bet that the same docs who go to strip clubs are probably those who justify their actions, and put the women who strip up on a pedestal. That would make a lot more sense since it is much easier to look oneself in the mirror the next day if you believe and promote the idea that the women being objectified are actually some form of empowered, feminine, anti-patriarchy heroes, than seeing them as the used-and-abused flesh that they actually are.

1. Your hypothesis that male doctors visiting strip clubs can't look at themselves in the mirror without idolizing the strippers they shoved dollar bills at the night before is hysterical. Men who visit strip clubs see the women there as entertainment, nothing more or less.
2. Most strippers aren't used and abused pieces of flesh. They're full grown women with as much agency and intelligence as any other woman you're likely to meet. As a matter of fact, I can almost guarantee you've met and admired a few women in your life who are or used to be strippers, and you are clueless to that fact.

I'm also tired of people accusing those who criticize things like the sex industry of being self-righteous, or hypocritical, or misogynistic, or prude, or whatever other pejorative classification of people. Observing an industry or action as harmful to an individual and to a society does not make someone prudish. It makes them astute. What is strange to me is how on a forum full of people who work in a field that is meant to promote health and steer people away from harmful behavior, there are so many threads with people applauding or justifying unhealthy behaviors.

The answer to this question is about having the ability to put aside your less than nuanced, not completely informed opinions and judgments and look at the bigger picture. Stripping is not always harmful, unless it's to your moral feels. Get over yourself. And to the OP, just be aware that judgmental asshats like this guy exist in medicine and every other field, and use discretion.

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

Ummm... I don't remember anyone suggesting that all strippers are hookers. Someone on the pro-stripper side of the argument did suggest that all strippers are "shrewd business women," however--and it was just about the most misinformed and absurd point made yet.

People keep bringing up the argument about male docs going to strip clubs while criticizing women for stripping. Does anyone making this point have an actual example of a real life male physician who directed criticism towards women who are strippers while also being known for patronizing strip clubs? I would bet that the same docs who go to strip clubs are probably those who justify their actions, and put the women who strip up on a pedestal. That would make a lot more sense since it is much easier to look oneself in the mirror the next day if you believe and promote the idea that the women being objectified are actually some form of empowered, feminine, anti-patriarchy heroes, than seeing them as the used-and-abused flesh that they actually are.

I'm also tired of people accusing those who criticize things like the sex industry of being self-righteous, or hypocritical, or misogynistic, or prude, or whatever other pejorative classification of people. Observing an industry or action as harmful to an individual and to a society does not make someone prudish. It makes them astute. What is strange to me is how on a forum full of people who work in a field that is meant to promote health and steer people away from harmful behavior, there are so many threads with people applauding or justifying unhealthy behaviors.

Lol, you are such a clown. The good news is that the corporatization of medicine will grind down conservative types like you and force you into the fold. All hail neoliberalism!

 

[didymus]

Again, and I don't how to make this any more clear to you...

Because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't understand what you are saying. I get your point, bro; I just totally disagree.

1.) I haven't attacked anyone. The sex industry includes stripping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_industry#Other_participants), among other things not included in your narrow definition. Words have meaning, and, I'm sorry, you don't get to just define them however you choose to fit your paradigm and win an argument--not with me you don't.

2.) You don't understand what a straw man fallacy is. I haven't distorted, mischaracterized, or substituted with something else, anyone's position in this debate, and focused my points against it. I have accurately categorized exotic dancing/stripping with the sex industry, of which it is, in fact, a part.

3.) Are you honestly unaware of all the data linking higher crime in neighborhoods with strip clubs, profound drug abuse among those working in said clubs, the statistically significant correlation of women who work as strippers and also experience domestic violence or sexual abuse, what about the reports of rampant sex trafficking in and through such establishments? Google is a helluva thing. I'm going to let you look into these things, because they are so well-estabished, I'm not going to spend time providing you with links since you should already be aware of these issues.

That said, I do not think dancing erotically in and of itself is harmful. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone dancing naked in front of a mirror at home, for instance--or in front of their partner, for that matter. It is the industry that is harmful; it is the commoditization and selling of people's sexuality that is harmful.

4.)

Your claim that people should not be labeled as prudes but rather astute for being prejudiced against dancers is predicated on the notion that you are right and they are wrong.

Correct. In the same way is the conclusion that someone is a prude who views strippers/stripping poorly is predicated on the notion that you are right and they are wrong. What's your point?

5.)

This is a classic combination of psuedoscientific and psuedochristian reasoning to attack those who are being successful at something your rigid upbringing never allowed you to consider as a possibility for yourself.

I've never heard of pseudoscientific and psuedochristian reasoning being used to attack someone for being successful at something that he or she didn't consider as an avenue for his or her own success. You refer to it as a "classic combination," so can you provide a historical example of this classic combination being the source of someone's criticism of another's success?

6.)

You are jealous that girls are making 2 grand a night dancing on stage...

No, I'm definitely not jealous. Actually, I'm not jealous of anyone who makes a living through exploitation of any kind, regardless of how much money they make. I feel badly for those being exploited, and I'm angry at those who ensure such a level of money is available to people who work in oppressive and exploitive environments. There has always been huge money to be made in "vice." It's not surprising and it isn't enviable to me in the least.

Now, you and another person on this thread made the case that strippers are making crazy money as a rule. Y'all seem to think that all the strip clubs of the world are these fancy places patronized by NBA players, rappers, and well-to-do business sorts. It makes me wonder if you have ever actually ventured to a bad side of town. Notice how many strip clubs are in those areas? Tons. You honestly believe those women are bringing home Benjamins?

Seriously. Where did you even come up with your $2,000 per night figure? Is there a salary survey out there for strippers that gives you mid-six-figure mean earnings for strippers?

6.)

...and you want to punish them by making sure that they have to pay for their actions for the rest of their lives by never being able to have a legitimate career.

Wait, I thought stripping was legitimate in your estimation?

This is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

No, it isn't at all. But even if it were hypocritical, it would not make the arguments invalid. You were loving pointing out fallacies I allegedly based arguments on earlier, yet you attempt to dismiss me by calling me a hypocrite (tu quoque). Nice.

7.)

Yet there are those who can only see sexuality in terms of black and white. They are unable to separate the concept of the body (nudity) from the concept of act (sexual intercourse)...

So you are accusing me of having a black and white understanding of sexuality, and you illustrate that by making a black and white distinction? Wha??

In your mind, is sex only defined as intercourse? How do you define intercourse, then? Does oral sex count? Other types of foreplay? Can stripping be categorized as foreplay? What about in unconventional relationships? Does intercourse look the same for all different kinds of couples?

It is saying "you stepped out of line, you angered God by showing your boobs, you can never be forgiven for this...

This is a straw man/red herring. I actually do not think this at all, and you have spent the bulk of your post up to this point (and what remains of it) mischaracterizing my arguments.

...and you can never be allowed to have anything but the most denigrating of work and social status for the rest of your life.

Again, is stripping denigrating or is it not? Is it legitimate work, or isn't it? Aren't ladies pulling down >$300K per year dancing on a stage, making stuck up jerks like myself jealous, or aren't they?

I have no idea what your religion is, but it sounds strongly fundamentalist Christian because...

Gonna stop ya there because, you're right--you don't know what my religion is, or if I practice any at all. For the record (and I have stated this elsewhere), I am not a fundamentalist Christian. So since the diatribe that followed your false assumption was predicated on me having a fundamentalist-Christian world view, I will not respond to it.

Remember that victoria's secret model? Adriana Lima? She made millions exposing nearly everything...Should we keep her out of the medical profession because of her character?

Possibly, yes.

...there are myriad girls in medical school who never stripped but have slept with 20+ guys they have picked up at bars. Is their character better than strippers?

No, it isn't.

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

Dude, just shut up. You can't hold back the tide on female sexuality. Go back in time and prevent the invention of the pill if you can. Otherwise, just resign yourself. You've lost.

To add to this: so long as humanity experiences technological growth, conservatives will always be losers. You would think physicians would be well-informed enough about science to understand this.

 

[calcio1020]

I just received my adult entertainer's license and I'm a freshman. However, this may end up being a big mistake as it may come up in background checks. Now I'm not doing anything illegal so I don't see the problem, but I'm worried that future employers will.

If it matters, I'm planning on going into Pharmacy or Dermatology

Thanks everyone

I wouldn't worry. I doubt it's the stripping that keeps you from becoming a doctor or pharmacist.

 

[didymus]

Ah, that was me, and the women I know who made 2k/night ended up doing better for themselves financially through education, investments and business than a lot of investment bankers I know. Given that I know about 20 strippers well, and you know about maybe none, who here is more likely to be misinformed and absurd?

But you don't know anything about me personally; you are woefully ignorant of what personal experiences inform my perspective. You continue to make arguments and base conclusions upon a deficit of information rather than a surplus thereof.

1. Your hypothesis that male doctors visiting strip clubs can't look at themselves in the mirror without idolizing the strippers they shoved dollar bills at the night before is hysterical. Men who visit strip clubs see the women there as entertainment, nothing more or less.

Hm. Not being a male yourself, I don't think you can comment accurately on what men think or how they view the women there.

2. Most strippers aren't used and abused pieces of flesh. They're full grown women with as much agency and intelligence as any other woman you're likely to meet. As a matter of fact, I can almost guarantee you've met and admired a few women in your life who are or used to be strippers, and you are clueless to that fact.

Sorry to break it to you, but your n=20 is not a scientific sample size. I don't think you can say what most strippers are or aren't. Extrapolating from your limited experience what the experience is for the rest of a population is a reckless way to form a perspective. Moreover, I do not question the intelligence of strippers or their capacity to make decisions in life. What I question about those who choose to strip when they have full control over that choice, among a vast amount of other options--for the sake of making money, or a statement, or to have power over men, or whatever--is their judgment (among other things). And it isn't just strippers that would come under scrutiny for me, either. Anyone who willfully and proudly participates in harmful behavior will be equally scrutinized.

This thread happens to be about strippers specifically, but the OP--as well as yourself--should know that it is just one example of something someone could do that would keep them from being welcomed into a career in medicine.

The answer to this question is about having the ability to put aside your less than nuanced, not completely informed opinions and judgments and look at the bigger picture.

So, you actually aren't responding to the point at all. Gotcha.

Stripping is not always harmful, unless it's to your moral feels.

False. It is always harmful. See my response above to the other stripper-sympathizer.

Get over yourself.

This seems to be something people without legitimate points to make say. Please tell me what this is even supposed to mean. Be specific.

And to the OP, just be aware that judgmental asshats like this guy exist in medicine and every other field...

Have you not yourself spent considerable time making judgments about me? Have you not also acted judgmentally? Or is that designation only reserved for people who disagree with you? Were you totally polite in your remarks, or could it be said that you were a bit of an asshat yourself? Or are the only asshats those people who disagree with you and call you on your utter BS? Should, then, the OP also be leery of people like yourself?

 

[didymus]

Dude, just shut up. You can't hold back the tide on female sexuality. Go back in time and prevent the invention of the pill if you can. Otherwise, just resign yourself. You've lost.

To add to this: so long as humanity experiences technological growth, conservatives will always be losers. You would think physicians would be well-informed enough about science to understand this.

Who are you again?

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

Who are you again?

Does it matter? You're still wrong.

 

[didymus]

Lol, you are such a clown. The good news is that the corporatization of medicine will grind down conservative types like you and force you into the fold. All hail neoliberalism!

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

Dude, agreed, it's not like capitalism has ever broken the guild system of any other profession. Oh wait!

 

[atomi]

I haven't attacked anyone. The sex industry includes stripping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_industry#Other_participants), among other things not included in your narrow definition. Words have meaning, and, I'm sorry, you don't get to just define them however you choose to fit your paradigm and win an argument--not with me you don't.

2.) You don't understand what a straw man fallacy is. I haven't distorted, mischaracterized, or substituted with something else, anyone's position in this debate, and focused my points against it. I have accurately categorized exotic dancing/stripping with the sex industry, of which it is, in fact, a part.

Seriously. Where did you even come up with your $2,000 per night figure? Is there a salary survey out there for strippers that gives you mid-six-figure mean earnings for strippers?

This is a straw man/red herring. I actually do not think this at all, and you have spent the bulk of your post up to this point (and what remains of it) mischaracterizing my arguments.

You need to look up what a strawman fallacy is because you clearly don't understand it. Stippers are not sex workers. You are saying they are in order to denigrate them. Sex workers have SEX for MONEY. I don't understand why you can't get this into your head. Your entire argument is a strawman attacking strippers for being sex workers, and therefore immoral deviants who should never be allowed into legitimate society (which is a completely different ****ed up argument -- clearly you don't believe in forgiveness or the fact that somebody can change. As much as I am disgusted by prostitution, I judge people by who they are, not who they were). Anyway, your comments amount the money make it clear that you are jealous of the money they make. Yes, strippers can pull in that much money. Sorry if that makes you insecure that there are pole dancers making more money than you will as a doctor. Not a fundamentalist Christian? Ok. But I'd bet a stripper's nightly wages that you go to a church. And what you might not consider fundamentalist, a lot of other people would. Also, LOL at trying to call me on using a strawman after I just taught you what that word meant. No, there's no need for me to mischaracterize your arguments. You have made your sexist, elitist, and draconian arguments perfectly clear all by yourself. So you think we should keep virgin strippers out of the medical profession huh? Why don't you take up the cause of trying to out all your female classmates having casual sex and dressing slutty at bars on the weekends? Clean up the profession, why don't you? You'd probably cull the class in half.

 

[atomi]

Also, you used wikipedia as your source to prove to me that strippers are, in fact, sex workers? Wikipedia? Nice. That about sums you up right there.

Are gynecologist sex workers also? What about IVF clinic staff? What about people who work at the condom factory? Your arguments are absurd.

 

[didymus]

You need to look up what a strawman fallacy is because you clearly don't understand it. Stippers are not sex workers. You are saying they are in order to denigrate them. Sex workers have SEX for MONEY. I don't understand why you can't get this into your head. Your entire argument is a strawman attacking strippers for being sex workers, and therefore immoral deviants who should never be allowed into legitimate society (which is a completely different ****** up argument -- clearly you don't believe in forgiveness or the fact that somebody can change. As much as I am disgusted by prostitution, I judge people by who they are, not who they were). Anyway, your comments amount the money make it clear that you are jealous of the money they make. Yes, strippers can pull in that much money. Sorry if that makes you insecure that there are pole dancers making more money than you will as a doctor. Not a fundamentalist Christian? Ok. But I'd bet a stripper's nightly wages that you go to a church. And what you might not consider fundamentalist, a lot of other people would. Also, LOL at trying to call me on using a strawman after I just taught you what that word meant. No, there's no need for me to mischaracterize your arguments. You have made your sexist, elitist, and draconian arguments perfectly clear all by yourself. So you think we should keep virgin strippers out of the medical profession huh? Why don't you take up the cause of trying to out all your female classmates having casual sex and dressing slutty at bars on the weekends? Clean up the profession, why don't you? You'd probably cull the class in half.

👍

 

[Anastomoses]

Alright. I don't think stripping would stop someone from being an effective doctor. What I do know is stripping is an objectification of individuals. Women, especially, have been suffering in many areas due to a new form of massive objectification via media and often perpetuating their own objectification.
It is seen when any high powered/political woman is scrutinized for her hairstyles or her femininity religiously by media.

Selling sex is not women owning their bodies, it's actually a misappropriation of what feminism is intended to do. Previously taught to be homemakers whose every value was based on making a man happy, now hindered with their premier value as sexual baubles. Feminism intended to give women the confidence and power to seek out what they need sexually...not for it to be repackaged as "microwavable meals" for ease of male consumption. So-called sex-positive feminists really baffle me.

A female doctor/lawyer/professional is the ideal candidate to oppose these forms of degradation. To have the stripper and doctor identity merge is a real let-down. That's my perspective on all this. I would not hire one because I think she promotes ideas harmful to society. Same with a male stripper. Yes, I think there is something intrinsically degrading to the human spirit to let repulsive balding fat men rub their sausage link fingers along your smooth fresh skin. Or pathetic cooing women pressing on a male stripper. I don't think these mores come from religion...I think they come from a sense of identity and self. But that's another matter entirely. What can't be argued is that stripping, hooters, porn...are all damaging to the image of what a woman is. And even so I wouldn't have them banned. But I'd certainly do everything in my power to frown on and stigmatize it.

If she wants to have orgies in the comfort of her bedroom privately, slut around when she's in distant cities...I have no problem with that. If someone ended up sending me private photos of a young doctor in an orgy who happens to be applying for residency - that would not affect her application as far as I'm concerned (if I were a PD). I might advise her to be more cautious. I'm sure I have an unusual view on the matter.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Ah, that was me, and the women I know who made 2k/night ended up doing better for themselves financially through education, investments and business than a lot of investment bankers I know.

You ever hear that line on SDN that you shouldn't go into medicine for the money, because you can make easier/better money elsewhere? No one ever seems to have an answer for what that job/profession is. Well, I think this thread just gave us the answer.

 

[calcio1020]

Dude, agreed, it's not like capitalism has ever broken the guild system of any other profession. Oh wait!

Leave it up to someone with Che Guevara in their username to start blabbing about conservatism and capitalism.. Seriously, just go away. Troll thread really brings out the trolls.

 

[calcio1020]

You need to look up what a strawman fallacy is because you clearly don't understand it. Stippers are not sex workers. You are saying they are in order to denigrate them. Sex workers have SEX for MONEY. I don't understand why you can't get this into your head. Your entire argument is a strawman attacking strippers for being sex workers, and therefore immoral deviants who should never be allowed into legitimate society (which is a completely different ****** up argument -- clearly you don't believe in forgiveness or the fact that somebody can change. As much as I am disgusted by prostitution, I judge people by who they are, not who they were). Anyway, your comments amount the money make it clear that you are jealous of the money they make. Yes, strippers can pull in that much money. Sorry if that makes you insecure that there are pole dancers making more money than you will as a doctor. Not a fundamentalist Christian? Ok. But I'd bet a stripper's nightly wages that you go to a church. And what you might not consider fundamentalist, a lot of other people would. Also, LOL at trying to call me on using a strawman after I just taught you what that word meant. No, there's no need for me to mischaracterize your arguments. You have made your sexist, elitist, and draconian arguments perfectly clear all by yourself. So you think we should keep virgin strippers out of the medical profession huh? Why don't you take up the cause of trying to out all your female classmates having casual sex and dressing slutty at bars on the weekends? Clean up the profession, why don't you? You'd probably cull the class in half.

Yes, stripping is not sexual because you can't get pregnant doing it. Brilliant logic. Also, it's hilarious how anyone who disagrees with your views is a jealous, fundamentalist Christian, not to mention sexist and elitist. You are an absolute nut.

 

[Dumpstarrian]

-

 

[Psai]

Also, you used wikipedia as your source to prove to me that strippers are, in fact, sex workers? Wikipedia? Nice. That about sums you up right there.

Are gynecologist sex workers also? What about IVF clinic staff? What about people who work at the condom factory? Your arguments are absurd.

I use wikipedia all the time though...

 

[touchpause13]

I don't have a horse in this race but strippers do count under the umbrella of sex workers....