Could use a couple of your thoughts

[DCDMB]

I accepted a seat in a PsyD program that is well-regarded in the metropolitan area I live in. The students are thrilled with their mentorship, the school is increasing its research opportunities for students, the APA internship rate is great, placements are well-regarded, pass rate is great. Employabillity and alumni results also seem to be very positive in the city.

I received a scholarship, which is great, but I'll still be paying a total of about $80k. The estimate is somewhat lower since I won't need to take out much for living expenses.

It was really interesting to meet other candidates at some of the fully funded programs (and even unfunded programs), because it was clear to me, coming from a different field, how my limited research experience and job experiences were really going to impact me as a candidate.

I am just about to turn 30, and I work full time in academia, and I have a decent job with some nice perks (travel, good schedule), etc. I;m trying to decide whether or not to go forward with this PsyD program or try to apply next year to other fully funded programs, but I really doubt much will change in my CV to make me more competitive (good grades, good work experience, but limited, if any, experience connected to mental health in general). And in general, fully funded programs provide a research stipend in which I'd like take on 40-50k debt anyway in living expenses overtime, whereas this PsyD program allows me to work in my current capacity for at least 2 years into the program, before I'd drop to part time, etc.

I know all there is to know about student debt and the burden...and the outcomes possible as a clinical psychologist (I am interested in pediatric neuropsych). I've looked up the myriad debt repayment programs (health corps, army service, others, etc) and external scholarships - but all of these are not givens, so it would be a risk to enter a program without knowing for sure if I have additional scholarship or debt repayment coming my way. It could be worth the risk, it might not be at all - I guess I won't know.

I'm at a bit of a loss. I plan on talking to a financial planner tomorrow about what my day to day would look like financially if I decide to forge ahead with this un-fully funded program.

I could stay in my current job, realize that not everyone can get the job or path they want, and move on too, but that feels rather unfulfilling and sad.

I could wait and apply next year- but I am worried about the age I would finish the program (36-37-38 by the time I'm working - and that doesn't seem to make sense either).

Any thoughts would be great --

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[ClinicalABA]

Here's a few thoughts-

-It's curious to me that you would be able to maintain your current full-time work schedule during the first few years of training, remaining part-time thereafter. My training was pretty typical for a clinical psych Ph.D., and it was at least full time between classes, clinic team, practica, research team, and thesis/dissertation. This was particularly true during the first few years, which were classroom heavy. It would not have been possible (or permitted) to work an outside full-time job.

-80K financed at 6.8% will result in 10 years of monthly payments $920, which would be untenable at entry-mid level psychology salary. 20 year repairment would mean $620 a month until you are in you late 50s. That still a HUGE ammount of monthly debt that will get in the way of your life.

-Another year or two won't be that big a deal on the other end if it means making you more competitive for more funding.

-I work in the field of pediatric assessment/neuropsychology (though I don't do the neuropsych stuff myseld). There is a HUGE need in this clinical area, with massive and long waitlists for assessments. It's very important work, with big ramifications for kiddos and their families, so you owe it to them to be very well trained, with no training corners cut.

-Good on you for reviewing things with a financial analyst. Be honest and pay heed to what they tell you. Project things based on entry level salaries, vs. end of the rainbow stuff

-Watch out for creating false dichotomies along the lines of "Go to overly expensive grad program or languish away in current unfulfilling job." First off, there are probably a host of other options if you are reasonably competent and willing to work hard. Secondly, they lead to impulsive and uninformed decision making. Thirdly, pediatric assessment can get pretty repetitive at times, so if it's doing the same thing over-and-over that bothers you about your current job, that might not change with a different field.

 

[DCDMB]

Here's a few thoughts-

-It's curious to me that you would be able to maintain your current full-time work schedule during the first few years of training, remaining part-time thereafter. My training was pretty typical for a clinical psych Ph.D., and it was at least full time between classes, clinic team, practica, research team, and thesis/dissertation. This was particularly true during the first few years, which were classroom heavy. It would not have been possible (or permitted) to work an outside full-time job.

-80K financed at 6.8% will result in 10 years of monthly payments $920, which would be untenable at entry-mid level psychology salary. 20 year repairment would mean $620 a month until you are in you late 50s. That still a HUGE ammount of monthly debt that will get in the way of your life.

-Another year or two won't be that big a deal on the other end if it means making you more competitive for more funding.

-I work in the field of pediatric assessment/neuropsychology (though I don't do the neuropsych stuff myseld). There is a HUGE need in this clinical area, with massive and long waitlists for assessments. It's very important work, with big ramifications for kiddos and their families, so you owe it to them to be very well trained, with no training corners cut.

Thanks! Yes - it's only because the courses are primarily in the evenings and weekends so I can work, though, as you suggest, might be sacrificing some mental space in brainpower for coursework

What are your thoughts on starting the program and becoming super involved in applying for external grants/scholarships? Obviously, an unknown, but a possibility.

 

[psych.meout]

I accepted a seat in a PsyD program that is well-regarded in the metropolitan area I live in. The students are thrilled with their mentorship, the school is increasing its research opportunities for students, the APA internship rate is great, placements are well-regarded, pass rate is great. Employabillity and alumni results also seem to be very positive in the city.

"Increasing its research opportunities?" This would imply that the currently offered opportunities are not all that great, no?

This should be especially important to you if you want to go into neuropsych, which tends to be more research heavy (presenting and networking at neuropsych conferences is important). Can your program guarantee that you'll get the neuropsych research opportunities you'll need to be competitive for neuropsych internships and post docs?

I received a scholarship, which is great, but I'll still be paying a total of about $80k. The estimate is somewhat lower since I won't need to take out much for living expenses.

$80,000 is still a lot and you shouldn't underestimate how much your daily expenses will be. Grad school is difficult enough without unexpectedly adding a large amount of debt simply to survive.

It was really interesting to meet other candidates at some of the fully funded programs (and even unfunded programs), because it was clear to me, coming from a different field, how my limited research experience and job experiences were really going to impact me as a candidate.

I am just about to turn 30, and I work full time in academia, and I have a decent job with some nice perks (travel, good schedule), etc. I;m trying to decide whether or not to go forward with this PsyD program or try to apply next year to other fully funded programs, but I really doubt much will change in my CV to make me more competitive (good grades, good work experience, but limited, if any, experience connected to mental health in general). And in general, fully funded programs provide a research stipend in which I'd like take on 40-50k debt anyway in living expenses overtime, whereas this PsyD program allows me to work in my current capacity for at least 2 years into the program, before I'd drop to part time, etc.

It's not reasonable to work full-time while attending a doctoral program. I'd be skeptical about the quality and rigor of any program where you actually have the time to work a full-time job during the school year. Even part-time work outside of program requirements can be dicey. Again, it's dangerous to bet your finances on being able to work outside of your program, full-time or part-time. Also, read the program's handbook. You may need departmental approval to work outside of the program, my program does.

I know all there is to know about student debt and the burden...and the outcomes possible as a clinical psychologist (I am interested in pediatric neuropsych). I've looked up the myriad debt repayment programs (health corps, army service, others, etc) and external scholarships - but all of these are not givens, so it would be a risk to enter a program without knowing for sure if I have additional scholarship or debt repayment coming my way. It could be worth the risk, it might not be at all - I guess I won't know.

You're right to be wary and cautious about these things. You shouldn't bet your future on anything but sure things. E.g., you might not be able to commission as a military officer if have a condition that is permanently disqualifying. Even if you don't have one now, you never know what could happen throughout the course of your grad program. ODS is highly selective, because so many people want to commission to defray the cost of their student loans.

I'm at a bit of a loss. I plan on talking to a financial planner tomorrow about what my day to day would look like financially if I decide to forge ahead with this un-fully funded program.

I could stay in my current job, realize that not everyone can get the job or path they want, and move on too, but that feels rather unfulfilling and sad.

I could wait and apply next year- but I am worried about the age I would finish the program (36-37-38 by the time I'm working - and that doesn't seem to make sense either).

Any thoughts would be great --

Why doesn't it "make sense " to finish grad school by your mid to late 30s?

 

[DCDMB]

Why doesn't it "make sense " to finish grad school by your mid to late 30s?[/QUOTE]

"Make sense" was poor wording, but I guess I am concerned I don't have the time now to take on research experiences this year to guarantee I am a more competitive applicant -- and my concern with a starting a program too late is primarily related to goals such as having a family, buying a house, etc.

 

[DCDMB]

I suppose I'm leaning towards waiting a year and trying again....a lesson in humility and maybe common sense haha even though I'm eager to start now

 

[psych.meout]

"Make sense" was poor wording, but I guess I am concerned I don't have the time now to take on research experiences this year to guarantee I am a more competitive applicant -- and my concern with a starting a program too late is primarily related to goals such as having a family, buying a house, etc.

So, you don't have time to take on research experiences to make yourself a more competitive applicant for funded programs, but you'll have time to work full-time during your grad program?

and my concern with a starting a program too late is primarily related to goals such as having a family, buying a house, etc.

It's understandable to have these concerns and it really does come down to where your values lie, but having a family isn't mutually exclusive to being in graduate school. Lots of people get married and have children during grad school. Is it difficult? Potentially, but it is doable depending on finances, partner support, etc.

That said, taking on at least $80,000 for tuition alone also complicates these life goals. E.g., think about how having such debt and monthly repayments makes it potentially difficult to get a mortgage for that house you want or forces you to work longer hours and spend less time with your family.

 

[DCDMB]

So, you don't have time to take on research experiences to make yourself a more competitive applicant for funded programs, but you'll have time to work full-time during your grad program?

Not for the duration of the program - my thought was I could work through the first two years (all classes - practicum start year 3) -- but yes, I get how that sounds lol

 

[psych.meout]

Not for the duration of the program - my thought was I could work through the first two years (all classes - practicum start year 3) -- but yes, I get how that sounds lol

No, I understood what you wrote. I was pointing out that, if you were to start your PsyD program this fall, that would be the same time period in which you would be working on improving your CV and applying to funded programs. If you are planning to work full-time during your first two years of this program, then it doesn't really make sense that you wouldn't be able to keep this same job and get more research experience while you are reapplying.

 

[Temperance]

"Make sense" was poor wording, but I guess I am concerned I don't have the time now to take on research experiences this year to guarantee I am a more competitive applicant -- and my concern with a starting a program too late is primarily related to goals such as having a family, buying a house, etc.

In one of my former labs, we had post-baccalaureate volunteer research assistants who were working full-time but spending a few hours per week in the lab working on projects. If it is possible for you to do the same, then you may be able to approach your PI about your goals of acquiring experience, presenting at conferences, and publishing, which would give you the research products desirable for a fully-funded doctoral program.

 

[DCDMB]

In one of my former labs, we had post-baccalaureate volunteer research assistants who were working full-time but spending a few hours per week in the lab working on projects. If it is possible for you to do the same, then you may be able to approach your PI about your goals of acquiring experience, presenting at conferences, and publishing, which would give you the research products desirable for a fully-funded doctoral program.

Thanks - I wasn't sure if this even existed. I appreciate it!

 

[ClinicalABA]

Thanks! Yes - it's only because the courses are primarily in the evenings and weekends so I can work, though, as you suggest, might be sacrificing some mental space in brainpower for coursework

What are your thoughts on starting the program and becoming super involved in applying for external grants/scholarships? Obviously, an unknown, but a possibility.

I think that, as a graduate student, your focus should be on learning and honing thecskills necessary to be a competent scientist-practitioner. Any grants you pursue should be to fund your research, not pay tuition. Similar with scholarships.

I still don’t see how it’s possible to receive adequate doctoral level training on just evenings and weekends. I’d be suspicious of such a program. Local perception is not important. What are the EPPP pass rates? What are cohort sizes? What is the acceptance rate to APA approved predoctoral internships? Better yet, give us the name of the program and we can look it up ourselves.