course requirements?

[mdphdhopeful]

I already finished half of general physics. Just now, I found out that the HST program requires calculus based physics. I know I can do NE with MD/PhD but do you think I will be at a disadvantage applying to other md/phd programs having only taken general physics? Is it worth it to take the calculus based physics for md/phd programs besides harvard hst even though they dont require it? thanks!

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[clockitnow]

In the tradition of my premed counselor, I will say if that is a school/program that you really really want to go to, then you should work to meet their requirements. If you are only sorta considering it, then you can always tell them that you are planning to do that requirement the spring/summer before you matriculate. That way you would only take it if you were accepted and decided to matriculate.

 

[Neuronix]

Several programs say they require calculus based physics, but the truth is that most schools don't even look at it. Even if they did, unless you went to ugrad there they probably don't even know which physics classes are calculus based. I didn't take calculus based physics and I was accepted to programs that required it. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you, unless you have your heart set on going to Harvard.

Besides, it would be kind of silly to have to go back and take general physics again. I could imagine that the worst case scenario would be having to take some higher level calc-based physics course to prove you're ready.

 

[mdphdhopeful]

you guys both have good points.
@neuronix- you really think they wouldn't even know?

i guess it really doesn't matter though. i thought that taking non-calc physics would show a lack of commitment to the basic sciences (which is bad for md/phd).

 

[Neuronix]

@neuronix- you really think they wouldn't even know?

Some schools don't know or pay attention even though they say it's required. I can't say that's true for every case though.

i guess it really doesn't matter though. i thought that taking non-calc physics would show a lack of commitment to the basic sciences (which is bad for md/phd).

Physics may be a basic science, but MD/PhD doesn't mean you have to be committed to every basic science

 

[mdphdhopeful]

Physics may be a basic science, but MD/PhD doesn't mean you have to be committed to every basic science

guess that makes sense

 

[huknows00]

I'm a junior trying to cram in all the required classes before applying next fall, right now orgo 1 is not going so well, and I may get a B. I feel like I understand the material really well, but the curve sucks and I heard they're centering it on a C. How much does a B in orgo impact my chances at md/phd. I have a 3.76 GPA and A or A- in all my science classes. I know the mean for mstp is 3.8 or something, but i'm afraid i can't make it since the penn curve sucks and my gpa is going down the tube with these competitive upperlevel classes.

I only have one fourth author paper in a major journal and a first author one in a undergrad school journal (does that even count?), so my research won't be able to compensate for my poor grades right?

Please give me some feedback because i'm worried sick.

 

[abeanatrice]

I'm a junior trying to cram in all the required classes before applying next fall, right now orgo 1 is not going so well, and I may get a B. I feel like I understand the material really well, but the curve sucks and I heard they're centering it on a C. How much does a B in orgo impact my chances at md/phd. I have a 3.76 GPA and A or A- in all my science classes. I know the mean for mstp is 3.8 or something, but i'm afraid i can't make it since the penn curve sucks and my gpa is going down the tube with these competitive upperlevel classes.

I only have one fourth author paper in a major journal and a first author one in a undergrad school journal (does that even count?), so my research won't be able to compensate for my poor grades right?

Please give me some feedback because i'm worried sick.

You're just plain silly if you think one B is going to hurt you. I'm sorry, but stop being ridiculous.

 

[huseyin]

I'm a junior trying to cram in all the required classes before applying next fall, right now orgo 1 is not going so well, and I may get a B. I feel like I understand the material really well, but the curve sucks and I heard they're centering it on a C. How much does a B in orgo impact my chances at md/phd. I have a 3.76 GPA and A or A- in all my science classes. I know the mean for mstp is 3.8 or something, but i'm afraid i can't make it since the penn curve sucks and my gpa is going down the tube with these competitive upperlevel classes.

I only have one fourth author paper in a major journal and a first author one in a undergrad school journal (does that even count?), so my research won't be able to compensate for my poor grades right?

Please give me some feedback because i'm worried sick.

Hey:

I do not think you have to worry about for the MSTP applications. I aggree that gpa is an important part of the first elimination however, it is not a reason of rejections by itself(as long as you are under cut off, I do not hink you are right now). My mentor and other people who are in the admission comittees say 3.75 and above is quite acceptable, therefore as long as you do not fall below, you are fine. In terms of Orgo, I understand that B sounds horrible, but it is not end of the world. This is a long maraton and you have to keep yourself motivated. If you get a lower B, you may consider it taking it again(I think they average your grades). Otherwise, go back to your lab and get lots of publications out. Good luck!!!
huseyin

 

[Dj neema]

Since you're not in danger of losing a perfect 4.0, I wouldn't really worry about it too much. Just don't get a really bad grade in one class.

As far as GPA goes, you really just have to worry about a cut off, or losing the impression that you're a very mature and dedicated student.

It's a damn shame that you're cramming all your required classes and not spending your time enjoying them. Organic was perhaps the biggest eye opener for me next to quantum mechanics.

Oh yeah, if your co author paper is in a top tier journal, and you can pull off one more publication, I'd say your chances are even at some MD/PhD programs.

Try Emory, Vandy, U. Chicago, Baylor, SUNY, Einstein, and Duke if you're really into pathology. From what I hear, they are really try to recruit their applicants, and aren't as likely to cut you off for something like GPA.

 

[huknows00]

Thanks guys, your comments gave me a lot of perspective in how GPA affects the admission process. Responding to DJ Neema, I agree that it's a shame that I have to cram my required classes in, and I actually do enjoy orgo too. I never thought I would since I am a bioengineering major, but it's just so damned interesting and suddenly all the stuff in BE makes more sense. I think Orgo should be a requirement for all BE and bio majors.

beanatrice, obviously i understand i won't die from a B, and i'm not trying to be snobby or "silly". I'm just concerened that my grades are falling each year, instead of climbing like most admission committees would like to see. I try a lot harder now than during freshman year, but it's just that the classes are more competitive and I was wondering if admission committees take that into consideration, because if the cut off is 3.75, then I very possibly will drop below that. Is that the cut off for most schools?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm whining, I'm just trying to get some information. Thanks guys.

 

[whitney06]

hey eric, are u in the neuroscience md/phd program @ penn? if so, i might have some follow-up q's, lol

 

[Neuronix]

hey eric, are u in the neuroscience md/phd program @ penn? if so, i might have some follow-up q's, lol

I was, but feel free to PM me anyways!

 

[tr]

I already finished half of general physics. Just now, I found out that the HST program requires calculus based physics. I know I can do NE with MD/PhD but do you think I will be at a disadvantage applying to other md/phd programs having only taken general physics? Is it worth it to take the calculus based physics for md/phd programs besides harvard hst even though they dont require it? thanks!

Well, I'd say you ought to take calc-based physics in any case, just for your own development as a scientist and as an educated human being. Introductory physics doesn't make any sense at all without calculus; it becomes just a bunch of formulas to swallow.

However, it's understandable that you don't want to go back and take the stinking course again. Water under the bridge. Just tell the HST program you'll take it before you come *if* they ask. Otherwise, don't mention it. As Neuronix noted, they probably won't know if you don't tell them.

 

[Caesars0331]

Introductory physics doesn't make any sense at all without calculus;

I would tend to disagree. I think lower level physics is one of the most logical and clear classes one can take...Even without the calculus. True, there are a lot of equations, but you cannot argue that it does not "make-sense"

 

[huseyin]

I would tend to disagree. I think lower level physics is one of the most logical and clear classes one can take...Even without the calculus. True, there are a lot of equations, but you cannot argue that it does not "make-sense"

I diagree. You are saying that non-calculus based physics is the "most logical and clear classes one can take", however even my PhD friends who teach that class says that it is unreasonable to teach a Physics class without calculus. As you may aggree, in math and phyics one has a better understanding if he/she knows the derivations and proofs of the formulas. I mean if you do not know that acceleration is the derivative of velocity how would you interpret the graph? I think your argument is in the same lines with trying to teach protein biochemistry without organic chemistry. One can still learn restriction endonucleases do not need ATP without learning the catalytic mechanisms behind it, but I do not know that learned information will make sense 4-5 years later. Therefore, you have to learn biochemistry with using organic chemistry.

I aggree that you should not stress out because of not taking Calc based Phyiscs. You did not avoid taking the class and if it is need you will take it. then there is nothing worry about.

 

[Caesars0331]

I diagree. You are saying that non-calculus based physics is the "most logical and clear classes one can take", however even my PhD friends who teach that class says that it is unreasonable to teach a Physics class without calculus. As you may aggree, in math and phyics one has a better understanding if he/she knows the derivations and proofs of the formulas. I mean if you do not know that acceleration is the derivative of velocity how would you interpret the graph? I think your argument is in the same lines with trying to teach protein biochemistry without organic chemistry. One can still learn restriction endonucleases do not need ATP without learning the catalytic mechanisms behind it, but I do not know that learned information will make sense 4-5 years later. Therefore, you have to learn biochemistry with using organic chemistry.

I aggree that you should not stress out because of not taking Calc based Phyiscs. You did not avoid taking the class and if it is need you will take it. then there is nothing worry about.

If you are going to quote me, please quote my whole thought. I clearly said "one of". Anyway, regardless of what your PhD friend think, physics (-calc) is still taught at every school in the country. Of course some classes relate in their content, and no doubt an understanding of calc makes your physics experience "richer". But my response was to the person who said that intro physics makes NO sense without calc., which is simply untrue.