COVID: 4th Wave

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

southerndoc

life is good
Volunteer Staff
Lifetime Donor
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Messages
14,016
Reaction score
4,678
If you look at the pandemic of 1918, it came in 3 waves. Epidemiologists had predicted the same with COVID. We had our initial wave, a spring wave, and now we're in our third wave of it.

I think a probable 4th wave will be fueled by the variants (B.1.1.7, P.2, B1.351/501Y.V2).

When do you guys think this will play out? Spring, summer? Here's hoping COVID goes away soon. I think I need it to go away for my sanity's sake!
 
With the 1918 pandemic, each subsequent wave was smaller and affected less people over time. Given the number of people already infected/exposed, and adding vaccines + warmer weather on the horizon, i'd expect any subsequent waves to be smaller.
 
With the 1918 pandemic, each subsequent wave was smaller and affected less people over time. Given the number of people already infected/exposed, and adding vaccines + warmer weather on the horizon, i'd expect any subsequent waves to be smaller.
I hope you're right, but it appears that each of the COVID waves has increased in number.
 
Whatever it is, it can't be as bad as 3rd Wave Ska, right?

I'd rather spend a day on a vent than listen to the same two trombone notes being played in rapid fire succession while a spastic white guy with a vocal tic hiccups into a microphone.

Add your own joke about white/black checkerboard patterns here.
 
Last edited:
I'd rather spend a day on a vent than listen to the same two trombone notes being played in rapid fire succession while a spastic white guy with a vocal tic hiccups into a microphone.

Add your own joke about white/black checkerboard patterns here.
Maybe I'm an idiot, but I have absolutely no idea to what or whom you are referring...
 
Maybe I'm an idiot, but I have absolutely no idea to what or whom you are referring...

Ska "starter pack" :

btd0y5hmjze21.jpg
 
Things ska bands like:

1. The same two notes on a brass instrument (hence the term 2 tone) for 4m 45s.
2. Inexplicable overuse of taxicab checkerboard patterns.
3. Acute angles.
4. Pants short enough to show off bowling shoes.
5. Suspenders.
6. A Monotone staccato singing style.
7. Not taking their behavioral health meds.
8. Midcentury modern anything.
9. Faux toughguy airs.
10. Letting you know that they're different, just like everyone else.
11. TyPiNG LiKe tHIs.
 
Last edited:
The difference of the first two weeks to the last week this January with covid has been impressive with how fast we're approaching another nadir in my region. Essentially going from 40 holds to single digits at most.

I'm definitely expecting another wave, but it'll be interesting to see how bad it'll be. Seems like every day some article comes out saying vaccines will protect against the variant then another says they won't, etc.
 
The difference of the first two weeks to the last week this January with covid has been impressive with how fast we're approaching another nadir in my region. Essentially going from 40 holds to single digits at most.

I'm definitely expecting another wave, but it'll be interesting to see how bad it'll be. Seems like every day some article comes out saying vaccines will protect against the variant then another says they won't, etc.

Well just to be safe, we should hunker down, and lock down in hopes the Wave passes us by......
 
If you look at the pandemic of 1918, it came in 3 waves. Epidemiologists had predicted the same with COVID. We had our initial wave, a spring wave, and now we're in our third wave of it.

I think a probable 4th wave will be fueled by the variants (B.1.1.7, P.2, B1.351/501Y.V2).

When do you guys think this will play out? Spring, summer? Here's hoping COVID goes away soon. I think I need it to go away for my sanity's sake!

I can't tell, are you asking when will a 4th/variant wave play out? Or when will covid's grip on our society play out?

If it's the former, I agree that the variants will help propagate a 4th wave. Though it stands to reason that this 4th wave is already going on and superimposed on what started several months ago. We've been terrible at analysing what strains have been zooming around the country and we don't seem to have the infrastructure to understand current conditions well. It's amusing when CNN or Fox or whoever reports "ruh roh, the new UK variant has just been found in Pawtucky!"...when the reality is that it's probably been spreading around the country for weeks or months.

If it's the latter, my guess it that covid's grip on society loosens significantly by the late fall. That assumes that current projections released yesterday reasonably hold up and that by then every adult American who wants a vaccine can have one to get us to heard immunity. I'd imagine that by then there will probably also be incentives to encourage stragglers to get vaccinated as well (ie if you're vaccinated you can fly, eat in restaurants, etc). Anyway, once we get there with vaccines there's unlikely to be further rationale to keep things closed down.
 
I'd rather spend a day on a vent than listen to the same two trombone notes being played in rapid fire succession while a spastic white guy with a vocal tic hiccups into a microphone.
Sublime, included?
 
If you look at the pandemic of 1918, it came in 3 waves. Epidemiologists had predicted the same with COVID. We had our initial wave, a spring wave, and now we're in our third wave of it.

I think a probable 4th wave will be fueled by the variants (B.1.1.7, P.2, B1.351/501Y.V2).

When do you guys think this will play out? Spring, summer? Here's hoping COVID goes away soon. I think I need it to go away for my sanity's sake!
My prediction: The COVID-19 4th wave, and subsequent waves, will be smaller as the vaccine gets into more bodies and the mutations will be covered partially, enough to keep the case counts receding, as herd immunity builds. Keep in mind, I'm a minimizer, not a catastrophizer, and I'm bad at predicting viral pandemics. Proceed accordingly.
 
They're kinda pushing it - but yeah.
I like that song, "Badfish" by them. But yeah. I'm not a ska-guy either. It seemed like most of the ska-heads were dope-smokin' skaters, back in the day. I never was very good at either of those things.
 
They're kinda pushing it - but yeah.
I'd say they were more Reggae influenced than Ska, plus they had no horns, so I vote 'no' but agree they're only about 1-2 degrees of separation away.
 
They’re technically ska punk, but a lot of people call them reggae rock so I think both are accurate.
We all seem to agree that they're an edge case. More ✊than 🤓

I listened to them way too much freshman year of college. They were catchy as all get out, but looking back they were pretty vapid.
 
We all seem to agree that they're an edge case. More ✊than 🤓

I listened to them way too much freshman year of college. They were catchy as all get out, but looking back they were pretty vapid.
It's amazing how much tastes change when I'm comparing what my teenage lizard-brain liked, versus now.
 
Consider the following statements, which I find fairly reassuring. Given that I'm now 3 weeks post my second shot, I'm not worried about covid anymore:

There are three lines of evidence that I wish to offer for my claim. First, consider the efficacy of the vaccine. The efficacy of the two mRNA vaccines is superb, offering 95% reduction in the rate of acquisition of symptomatic COVID-19 in randomized trials. That is a remarkable result. But the key statistic here is one step beyond the vaccine efficacy. If you get two doses of the vaccine, and if you remain asymptomatic 14 days after the second dose, what is the probability you will develop COVID-19? For Moderna, the answer is there is a 99.92% chance that you won't. Only 12 cases occurred after this time in 14,550 actively vaccinated people in the trial, while the control arm experienced nearly 3.5% cumulative incidence. For Pfizer, only eight cases occurred amongst people who had completed a second dose and went 7 days without symptoms, again a 99.95% chance of not getting COVID if one remained asymptomatic a week after the second dose. In other words, if you get 14 days past the second dose, and feel fine, the likelihood you will get COVID-19 in these studies is very low. Some argue that in the real world -- where folks are not as motivated as trial participants -- the rate of SARS-CoV-2 acquisition might be higher, and thus relaxing rules riskier. But this logic cuts both ways: if people in the real world are less compliant, then the rules might be relaxed no matter what we say.

Next, consider the risk of spreading SARS-CoV-2 to others. That risk is in part driven by symptomatic infections which are exceedingly rare after second doses. Risk of spreading is diminished by the brisk immune response that occurs after symptomatic infection once someone is vaccinated. In the Moderna study, there were 30 cases of severe COVID overall and zero in the vaccination arm. Less symptomatic and less severe COVID will result in a lower propensity to propagate SARS-CoV-2. Moreover, studies of both recombinant antibody products speed viral clearance from airways. If the body is primed to manufacture anti-spike antibodies through vaccination, there is likely a similar rapid clearance and subsequent reduction in infectiousness occurs.

What about asymptomatic infection and so-called silent spread? In the Moderna trial, swabs taken from asymptomatic participants as they were receiving dose 2 showed a roughly 60% reduction in PCR positivity. It is likely that a second dose and longer asymptomatic period will result in greater reduction in PCR positivity. Preliminary data from AstraZeneca's ChAdOx1 vaccine also showed reduced in asymptomatic PCR detection. In short, it is highly likely that receipt of vaccination and a 14-day asymptomatic period afterward results in both personal protection and reduced likelihood of ongoing viral propagation.

Op-Ed: Throw Away Your Mask After COVID Vaccination?
 
Consider the following statements, which I find fairly reassuring. Given that I'm now 3 weeks post my second shot, I'm not worried about covid anymore:



Op-Ed: Throw Away Your Mask After COVID Vaccination?

Agree mostly, but the Pfizer and moderna trials didn’t actually look at asymptomatic transmission. AZ’s trial in the UK did, and I feel like it makes sense that Pfizer and moderna would also prevent asymptomatic transmission but we don’t actually know yet.
 
I don't think asymptomatic transmission is that high to begin with, as opposed to PRE-symptomatic transmission which does spread like wildfire. The viral load (in truly asymptomatic individuals) simply cannot be that high for them to be that infectious. Add to that the vaccine which drastically reduces your chances of getting covid in the first place, your chances of getting and transmitting while asymptomatic are going to be miniscule.
 
I don't think asymptomatic transmission is that high to begin with, as opposed to PRE-symptomatic transmission which does spread like wildfire. The viral load (in truly asymptomatic individuals) simply cannot be that high for them to be that infectious. Add to that the vaccine which drastically reduces your chances of getting covid in the first place, your chances of getting and transmitting while asymptomatic are going to be miniscule.
Yeah, I agree strongly with this based on my reading of the literature. The conflation of sensible public health recommendations in areas of uncertainity ("just because you don't have symptoms right now doesn't mean you're not infectious") with hard facts is really troubling.
 
Yeah, I agree strongly with this based on my reading of the literature. The conflation of sensible public health recommendations in areas of uncertainity ("just because you don't have symptoms right now doesn't mean you're not infectious") with hard facts is really troubling.

Are you saying that it’s not a hard fact that someone not showing symptoms can spread covid?
 
I don't think asymptomatic transmission is that high to begin with, as opposed to PRE-symptomatic transmission which does spread like wildfire. The viral load (in truly asymptomatic individuals) simply cannot be that high for them to be that infectious. Add to that the vaccine which drastically reduces your chances of getting covid in the first place, your chances of getting and transmitting while asymptomatic are going to be miniscule.
I agree. This talk about vaccinated people spreading the virus far and wide is basic panic-porn, click-bait. Sure, it's possible. But there's a reason measles, mumps, rubella and polio aren't spread far and wide across America among the vaccinated. It's because they're vaccinated. Why would we even bother getting these vaccine, if it meant we still were all getting and spreading these viruses?

While I'm sure it's possible to have a few virions in you, while being immune and vaccinated. It seem likely the amount those people will be carrying and spread has to be so drastically reduced compared to the unvaccinated, to be nearly negligible. But whatever it takes to get a few more clicks and viewers, is what you're going to get.
 
I agree. This talk about vaccinated people spreading the virus far and wide is basic panic-porn, click-bait. Sure, it's possible. But there's a reason measles, mumps, rubella and polio aren't spread far and wide across America among the vaccinated. It's because they're vaccinated. Why would we even bother getting these vaccine, if it meant we still were all getting and spreading these viruses?

While I'm sure it's possible to have a few virions in you, while being immune and vaccinated. It seem likely the amount those people will be carrying and spread has to be so drastically reduced compared to the unvaccinated, to be nearly negligible. But whatever it takes to get a few more clicks and viewers, is what you're going to get.

There are vaccines where you can still shed virus. Like sure, when the majority of people are vaccinated it won’t matter. That’s why we don’t have tons of people getting pertussis even though you can shed the virus even while the vaccine prevents illness. But until most people are vaccinated, if it’s possible to shed virus while vaccinated, then you can absolutely get people sick.

From what I understand, most people are saying that since we don’t know yet, we should continue to follow public health measures after getting vaccinated. That seems reasonable to me even though I suspect that vaccinated folks aren’t shedding (like with most vaccines).

Is the news saying it in a different way? I’m so over the news completely distorting reality that I don’t even watch or read it anymore.
 
There are vaccines where you can still shed virus. Like sure, when the majority of people are vaccinated it won’t matter. That’s why we don’t have tons of people getting pertussis even though you can shed the virus even while the vaccine prevents illness. But until most people are vaccinated, if it’s possible to shed virus while vaccinated, then you can absolutely get people sick.

From what I understand, most people are saying that since we don’t know yet, we should continue to follow public health measures after getting vaccinated. That seems reasonable to me even though I suspect that vaccinated folks aren’t shedding (like with most vaccines).

Is the news saying it in a different way? I’m so over the news completely distorting reality that I don’t even watch or read it anymore.
Is the "News" explaining things in a rational way? I don't know. I ignore them, too. I just know that one person says something that makes sense, someone misunderstands it in a panicky way, and the panicky version goes viral, while the original rational version, goes largely unseen. Repeat x 1 million, and you have 2020-2021 in a nutshell.
 
Is the "News" explaining things in a rational way? I don't know. I ignore them, too. I just know that one person says something that makes sense, someone misunderstands it in a panicky way, and the panicky version goes viral, while the original rational version, goes largely unseen. Repeat x 1 million, and you have 2020-2021 in a nutshell.

Oh yeah for sure. Not exactly new, but on steroids for 2020-2021.
 
Are you saying that it’s not a hard fact that someone not showing symptoms can spread covid?
No, sorry if I was unclear. I think it's pretty well established that presymptomatic patients are highly infectious (which makes sense, since that's the case for pretty much all URI viruses).
 
Is the "News" explaining things in a rational way? I don't know. I ignore them, too. I just know that one person says something that makes sense, someone misunderstands it in a panicky way, and the panicky version goes viral, while the original rational version, goes largely unseen. Repeat x 1 million, and you have 2020-2021 in a nutshell.

That's been pretty much every news story about this virus, which has led to overreaction among politicians who feel pressure to "do something".

I wish we'd taken a calmer, more rational approach than nuking the economy and destroying lives.
 
That's been pretty much every news story about this virus, which has led to overreaction among politicians who feel pressure to "do something".

I wish we'd taken a calmer, more rational approach than nuking the economy and destroying lives.

Would also require the public to be rational. If people were willing to just mask up and avoid big gatherings, we’d be much better off. Meanwhile, my kids’ schools are closed but the bar and restaurant down the street is open and was completely packed with people at every table, none of them masked and all of them laughing it up.
 
overheard this morning from the ED nursing director: So you have all noticed it, we are basically 'full' at all times and the floor is doing anything possible to refuse giving [med/surg] bed assignments. So I just had a crack of dawn meeting with all of the nursing directors of the hospital and the CNO. We have come to an agreement you're all not going to like. We are currently at slightly over 100% capacity, somehow we have 4 more patients upstairs than we actually have official beds. I'm not sure how that happens, but until further notice we will not be receiving any med/surg beds until change of shift - so discharge anyone as soon as the doctors put the DC order in, clean the room, and hope for the best. Use every possible hallway bed. And when we become bed locked each day, we will just have to get creative with room 1 [room kept open for CPR] as much as possible.

God covid life is insane.

Currently: 26 "beds" (not counting hallway space) in the ED and boarding 22. Gonna be a GREAT monday
 
Would also require the public to be rational. If people were willing to just mask up and avoid big gatherings, we’d be much better off. Meanwhile, my kids’ schools are closed but the bar and restaurant down the street is open and was completely packed with people at every table, none of them masked and all of them laughing it up.

The public isn't rational. The pompous guy who screams at me every day in my building (with no mask rules) for not wearing a mask (despite sitting by myself for coffee) had a big SuperBowl party at his place with 25 people over.

Meanwhile kids still can't go to school cuz of anti-science, and terrified people are walking outdoors in the sunlight with N-95s.
 
The public isn't rational. The pompous guy who screams at me every day in my building (with no mask rules) for not wearing a mask (despite sitting by myself for coffee) had a big SuperBowl party at his place with 25 people over.

Meanwhile kids still can't go to school cuz of anti-science, and terrified people are walking outdoors in the sunlight with N-95s.

Exactly my point lol.
 
Top