CP only for research career

[Pathmonster]

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Any thoughts on doing CP only with plans of being a researcher?

It seems like a good way to go to me.

Anyone out there doing it?

 

[beary]

Any thoughts on doing CP only with plans of being a researcher?

It seems like a good way to go to me.

Anyone out there doing it?

I plan to go into research, and seriously considered going this route. I ended up deciding to go with AP/CP since I was advised that if you do CP only you absolutely 100% are limited to a research career, and though that is what I want to do I am not 100% confident that it will work out. Also, I think you may have more fellowship opportunities with both (like hemepath, which while technically CP, really crosses boundaries). Basically I think it is a decision between more time vs. more opportunities if you do AP/CP.

 

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[AngryTesticle]

I'm starting to think more and more that if you're 100% committed to basic science research, CP only is the way to go. CP is not very demanding compared to AP and so you have lots of time to look into postdoc options very early into training. I've had this discussion with a few colleagues (not only at my institution) and we all agree. If you're really truly completely committed to basic science research, don't pussyfoot around with too much clinical training cuz you're going to do anything possible to minimize your clinical work. And running a lab in the CP department in an academic institution is pretty cush and affords a lot of time to run a RO1 funded lab.

 

[happyhour06]

Interesting thoughts- I would like to give a counterpoint. CP is a colossal waste of time. If you are entirely comitted to a research career, go into research. Being a laboratory director does NOT give you any additional salary at an academic medical center- and it wastes 3 years of your life, when you can't actually do research and you won't develop a skillset that will be of any use to you.

AP+a 1-yr fellowship in your area of interest is the way to go, if you want to do research. In most situations, you can negotiate the actual service part of your AP residency down to 2 years and if you do a fellowship that isn't boarded, then you're done in 3 years with Board eligibility. If you want AP+another board, then you can you can do 2 years of AP, 1 year of fellowship and then do research "as a structured part of your AP residency" to fulfill the 3rd year of AP.

Those are my thoughts- my experience hasn't been good with CP only people. They typically end up in straight research positions, and they don't contribute to clinical work at all.

 

[AspiringPath]

Interesting thoughts- I would like to give a counterpoint. CP is a colossal waste of time. If you are entirely comitted to a research career, go into research. Being a laboratory director does NOT give you any additional salary at an academic medical center- and it wastes 3 years of your life, when you can't actually do research and you won't develop a skillset that will be of any use to you.

hmmm....couldnt one do CP-only residency and then do a 1 yr fellowship in something like transfusion med, Mol Path or hemepath and also be a basic researcher? It might be more responsibilities than just "running a lab", but I thought this would assure one of additional salary -- any comments from people with experience? Success in research will ultimately depend on how much money one brings in in terms of grants......

 

[happyhour06]

hmmm....couldnt one do CP-only residency and then do a 1 yr fellowship in something like transfusion med, Mol Path or hemepath and also be a basic researcher? It might be more responsibilities than just "running a lab", but I thought this would assure one of additional salary -- any comments from people with experience? Success in research will ultimately depend on how much money one brings in in terms of grants......[/QUOTE]

In the long term, you might be able to bring in some extra money, and I agree that doing a fellowship would be the way to go if you wanted to have a backup. CP alone would not be enough to give you any competitive advantage or to make an additional salary. However, you have to remember that being a medical director of a laboratory is becoming ever more cumbersome with the increasing number of certifications, licensures, etc that are required, and you will spend a good amount of time doing administrative stuff in order to pay for the increased salary. Also remember that academic departments are hiring more "clinically" oriented pathologists to do service work and that you might be competing against people that actually are interested in administration and lab management. Again, I understand the idea behind doing CP only, but I think that it is a bit outmoded in today's academic pathology world.

 

[LADoc00]

I had Ramzi Cotran tell me personally I should forget AP and do CP only if I was 100% (nothing LESS) dedicated to a research career. And Cotran was a renal AP pathologist. I dont agree completely with that. My feelings are if you are 100% sure you are going to research you should do NO residency at all, none, zero. The advantage in grant funding is provided by having the MD, not by additional ABMS certs. Yes you can cover something like clinical chemistry, but you will sink or swim based on your research, period.

I was led down the dark path that somehow pathology is great for basic research, which it most certainly is NOT. It will be a big waste of time after spending 3 years+ to get AP cert and do nothing but autopsies or have to spend 90% of your time signing out simple surg path cases with no lab time.

***That said, it is my sincere opinion that as configured right now with grant funding, excess PhDs (WAY excess) and mass foreign immigration into the research community here, and possible instability in the budget due to the war, rising interest rates etc. research is a total quagmire and should be avoided at all costs. If anything I would do research for a short period in INDUSTRY and then get a MBA with a biotech emphasis.

 

[AngryTesticle]

Dr. Uber: I agree with your perspective as well...if you are 100% committed to basic science research, not doing a residency is definitely an option. However, let's say that you're moving into a new environment and you want to establish connections. You want to get to know more about the big shot labs but not commit to one too early in the game. That's where doing CP only can be a blessing. Yes, CP only gives you crap backup options but CP residency is easy. When you're supposed to "read" or "prepare" for one of those lameass CP presentations, you can go visit labs and get some postdoc interviews out of the way. Hell, besides bloodbank, if you find a lab, you can ease yourself into a lab and start working at the bench during some of the easy CP rotations like ClinChem or Micro. It's almost like you're killing 1.5 birds with 1.1 stones. But in any case, I have heard too many times that the MD degree in and of itself confers an advantage when it comes down to getting grants. However, I think a big part of it is that MDs can apply for K08 awards which are pretty substantial awards and can set you above a lot of other non-MD folks when establishing a track record very early on in your career which is very important. However, the K08 situation is not looking too good right now (see below).

***That said, it is my sincere opinion that as configured right now with grant funding, excess PhDs (WAY excess) and mass foreign immigration into the research community here, and possible instability in the budget due to the war, rising interest rates etc. research is a total quagmire and should be avoided at all costs. If anything I would do research for a short period in INDUSTRY and then get a MBA with a biotech emphasis.

This is the unfortunate reality which sucks for people like me. Grant funding is being cut. It used to be that no-talent assclowns with little to no preliminary data and no previous science background could easily get a K08 grant by simply having a good mentor, being at a good institution, and having a half-ass proposal put together and just applying. Those days are gone. With funding to the NIH dropping and the current political environment, grants are much harder to acquire on all levels. This really makes for a very grim atmosphere for those who want to pursue basic science research long-term.

That being said, there could be a silver lining in all of this. Let's say that the situation does improve. You will have lots of people giving up on research careers right now...those folks being the people who decide to chicken out or were not 100% serious about this career track to begin with. However, should the NIH funding improve, there will be lots of "vacancies" to fill. There will be a short period of time where it may be easier to get grant funding. Of course, just like pathology residency applications, there are always ups and downs and no one can predict what exactly the **** is gonna happen.