Criminal Activity Issues

[skibird89]

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When I was 16 I was arrested for shoplifting and given a misdemeanor. When I was 17 I was cited for under age drinking and given a summary citation.

Now I am 20 and ready to apply to medical school next year. I have a current GPA of 4.0 so academically I am on track.

I know that on the AMCAS application there is a question about misdemeanors and felonies. I can check no for that question because my underage drinking citation was only a summary and my shoplifting misdemeanor occured when I was a minor.

I am curious about seconday application. I know some ask you if you have been ever convicted of any crime. Does this include crimes convicted off as a juvenile? Also in both cases I was adjudicated (state of pennsylvania). Is there a difference between adjudication and conviction?

Are there any med schools that only ask about convictions if you were not a minor?

Thank you.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Mine asked "if you have ever" questions, and did not limit it to adult age. I believe you should consult a lawyer about this before accepting SDN advice, especially with regards to the AMCAS question. Anything that can come up on a background check that you don't declare in your primary/secondary will most likely results in your acceptance being lifted (happened to 2 friends of mine). Err on the side of truth here - after all, it was a long time ago. But if you don't want to declare it, definitely ask your lawyer first before doing so and read the AMCAS detailed instructions for this section CLOSELY.

 

[skibird89]

Well I actually just emailed my lawyer. He told me that the shoplifting case was dismissed or withdrawn. In which case no conviction has occured.

So in the case of shoplifting, I don't have to report the incident.

That now leaves me with the underage drinking citation I had, and a institutional action. My RA caught me and a friend drinking a 6 pack.

The underage drinking was an adjudication and not a conviction.

But if I do report it, what kind of position does an underage and an institutional action for drinking put me in. My grades are good, I have research, clinical experience, I am going abroad for a semester.

Thanks

 

[skibird89]

What medical schools do not as the "have you ever" questions?

 

[AdmiralChz]

Unless you received some sort of punishement (institutional action = community service, probation), you won't need to report it.

What medical schools do not as the "have you ever" questions?

I have no idea what this means - is this even a sentence?

 

[skibird89]

So I guess an alcohol intervention program counts as an institutional action?

I was asking what medical schools do not ask the "have you ever been convicted of a crime" question?

Are there medical schools that will only ask about non-juvenille offences?
Also the background check run by AMCAS only releases non-juvenile information.

I just would prefer to not discuss my underage drinking citation when I was 17 especially when I have an institutional action for drinking?

If anyone here has a law background I would also like to know if there is a difference between adjudicate and convict?

 

[dw2158]

I have no idea what this means - is this even a sentence?

i'm pretty sure he meant what schools do not ask. 🙄

 

[AdmiralChz]

I had a rough night last night, I'm not really firing on all cylinders today.

 

[LizzyM]

Don't knock yourself out over campus trouble with alcohol. It is so ubiquitous and not a big deal to adcom members. If the school made you do something (took an action) or put a note on your record, you have an institutional action. Just list it and relax.

 

[skibird89]

I understand. But I also recieved an underage when I was 17. It was not a misdemeanor, but a summary citation, and I feel that when asked about being conviceted of a crime I will have to report it.

So now I have an underage citation at 17 and the institutional action at 20. Taken together I am worried that this would be a red flag for adcoms.

I have a very high GPA and lots of good clinical and research experience that I would not want overshadowed by these two incidents, especially when one occured when I was a juvenile.

 

[Dilophosaurus]

I know that in my state a citation is not a criminal offense. They are on the same level as a traffic ticket, but seriously don't listen to me or any one else on SDN, contact a lawyer, or two to be safe. The advice is usually free if it's just over the phone.

 

[skibird89]

So this might be getting into semantics, but if say the underage is not considered a criminal office, then being convicted of one isn't considered being convicted of a crime?

The underage was in the state of PA and is considered a summary offence which is not a misdemeanor.

 

[jollygr33n]

can you just do a background check on yourself to see what shows up?

 

[skibird89]

Well the underage drinking can be found online through the magistrates files. However, online it is listed as a summary offence and not a misdemeanor.

So when medical schools do background checks since they do a criminal background check I do not see why that would come up. On the other hand it is so easily accessibly that I do not see why they would not look. But the point being is that if adjudication is different from conviction, why bring it up on my application when I am already discussing institutional action for underage drinking.

 

[AdmiralChz]

I don't think many lawyers hang out on SDN - you need to contact yours for clarification on PA laws. 2 of my schools asked about anything "beyond a traffic violation" so I would think this would be included, but again I'm not sure.

 

[skibird89]

Well I am just worried that an underage at 17 and the institutional action at 20 (RA smelled beer and walked in on two guys drinking a 6 pack and watching a hockey game) are going to be disqualifying red flags

I have great grades, good research, extracurriculars, am going abroad, and I don't want all of that stuff overshadowed by a couple drinking incidents.

 

[ch0sen1]

Well I actually just emailed my lawyer. He told me that the shoplifting case was dismissed or withdrawn. In which case no conviction has occured.

So in the case of shoplifting, I don't have to report the incident.

That now leaves me with the underage drinking citation I had, and a institutional action. My RA caught me and a friend drinking a 6 pack.

The underage drinking was an adjudication and not a conviction.

But if I do report it, what kind of position does an underage and an institutional action for drinking put me in. My grades are good, I have research, clinical experience, I am going abroad for a semester.

Thanks

Just because your shoplifting ticket was dismissed, doesnt mean it wont be on your record. On your criminal record, it WILL state that you were charged with shoplifting and that you went to court and they dismissed it. So medical schools will still be curious...you need to get it expunged, which is not so bad of a process..especially since you werent convicted.

Also, do whatever it takes to get the underage drinking case closed (as by, you have completed all the requirements the court has asked you to do, and your probation term has been finished). Then you may also proceed in expunging that.

 

[ch0sen1]

Well I am just worried that an underage at 17 and the institutional action at 20 (RA smelled beer and walked in on two guys drinking a 6 pack and watching a hockey game) are going to be disqualifying red flags

I have great grades, good research, extracurriculars, am going abroad, and I don't want all of that stuff overshadowed by a couple drinking incidents.

As I said, everything shows up on your criminal record (whether you were convicted or not). Yes, it was to my suprise as well. The fact that you got a ticket for it and that you appeared in court for shop lifting and underage drinking WILL show up on your record.

Medical schools will do a general criminal background check on you, for which everything you have done will show up. They will be very suspicious of you once they see your record (whether your convicted or no). You want it clean, so just expunge it.

My suggestion is, send your judge a letter and ask him to close your case or ways that you can get around your alcohol ticket to get it closed so you may expunge it to get into medical school.

 

[skibird89]

The shoplifting case has been dismissed and sealed. I was never convicted and it happened as a juvenile. So why tell them about it when they never ask.

The underage drinking was a convictio nwhen I was 17 and as far as I know I can get it expunged when I am 21, but it was still a conviction (or an adjudication, I do not know the difference). After some research I found out the the AMCAS background check does not return information on juvenilles. Moreoever, the drinking citation was not a misdemeanor but a summary citation which is a lesser charge. Although I feel like it still falls under the umbrella of the convicted of a crime question on secondaries.

 

[Forbes]

The shoplifting case has been dismissed and sealed. I was never convicted and it happened as a juvenile. So why tell them about it when they never ask.

The underage drinking was a convictio nwhen I was 17 and as far as I know I can get it expunged when I am 21, but it was still a conviction (or an adjudication, I do not know the difference). After some research I found out the the AMCAS background check does not return information on juvenilles. Moreoever, the drinking citation was not a misdemeanor but a summary citation which is a lesser charge. Although I feel like it still falls under the umbrella of the convicted of a crime question on secondaries.

I am not an adcom member, so everything I say needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

I got two drinking tickets as a juvenile. I am going to report them on my AMCAS, most likely, anyways. Why?

Say a secondary application asks: Ever been committed of any crime, even as a juvenile?

Now there is room for the argument that I lied by omission by not disclosing it on my AMCAS, pretty much screwing me.

I am going to have to look into it more with my lawyer (I worked for him so he gives me free counsel 😀). I just don't think it is a good idea to not disclose. These things can always haunt you, however minor they may seem.

With regards to underage drinking tickets, I think that adcoms want to see that you don't have a substance abuse problem. I think LizzyM has commented on this.
If your application is stellar, I doubt anyone will crucify you over drinking tickets.

 

[skibird89]

From what I have been told AMCAS asks you to exclude any conviction that you recieved as a juvenille and only asks for misdemeanors and felonies?

In my state underage drinking is not a misdemeanor and plus since it occured as a juvenille why mention it when not asked.

If a secondary asks for any crimes at any times then its hard to get around, and would make sense to mention it.

But my problem is that citation at 17 and an instiutional action at 20, although to any of us doesnt cry substance abuse, might seem like substance abuse to an adcom