Criminal history and chances of admission and licensure

[GilgameshesEye]

I got arrested for a misdemeanor stalking charge. There weren't any threats or physical violence involved. It was when my first girlfriend and I broke up. I regret my actions and I would never act in such a way again. I obviously lacked critical judgement at the time, I was very young and not in a god place mentally. I was unemployed and not in school at the time. I since got my life together and beca,e a straight A student, reasonably competent employee, and maintain reasonably healthy and functional relationships. It basically came down to me sending her text messages after she said to stop and continuing to show up at the bar we used to hangout at. There was no conviction, the charges were dropped. I had a protection order filed against me, eventually the order was dissolved. I haven't had any legal trouble since then. It would be about 10 years since the incident, when I apply for medical school, if I pursue that path.

My question is directed preferably at medical school admission staff or medical licensing staff. Would this likely be an automatic dis-qualifier? It did effect me somewhat when applying for college. I got put in a restricted status, where I couldn't take leadership positions unless if I completed a program that included 100 hours of community service and reference letters I believe. i also had to ask permission every time to have a hold lifted so I could register for classes.

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[GoSpursGo]

Unless I’m missing something, it’s not clear to me you even need to report this. No conviction, order dissolved… I don’t see why this needs to be on your app at all.

 

[GilgameshesEye]

Unless I’m missing something, it’s not clear to me you even need to report this. No conviction, order dissolved… I don’t see why this needs to be on your app at all.

Well there's still a record of it even though it was dismissed. As well as the civil record that there was a protection order even though it is now dissolved. My university did find it and like I said they placed me in disciplinary probation that I would have had to complete a program to get out of. I could have it expunged and request to have my civil record sealed, but I've read medical licensure committees still see expunged and sealed records.

 

[Goro]

Some secondaries will ask about arrests. Most only ask about convictions, especially felonies.

So, this doesn't need to be reported except at a handful of schools because you weren't convicted.

Did you receive an IA from your school?????

This is what counts.

 

[GilgameshesEye]

Some secondaries will ask about arrests. Most only ask about convictions, especially felonies.

So, this doesn't need to be reported except at a handful of schools because you weren't convicted.

Did you receive an IA from your school?????

This is what counts.

I'm not sure what IA means. This happened before I attended the university (I wasn't attending school at the time) on admittance they placed me disciplinary probation. I wasn't allowed to hold any leadership positions. Supposedly there was a program I could have done (including community service) to get out of probation, but I never did because I wasn't that effected. I can't be totally sure if the program would have worked for me or not. If I return to finish premed requirements I definitely would pursue that though.

I gather this implies it likely wouldn't be disqualifying when it came to licensing either?

 

[gyngyn]

I'm not sure what IA means. This happened before I attended the university (I wasn't attending school at the time) on admittance they placed me disciplinary probation. I wasn't allowed to hold any leadership positions. Supposedly there was a program I could have done (including community service) to get out of probation, but I never did because I wasn't that effected. I can't be totally sure if the program would have worked for me or not. If I return to finish premed requirements I definitely would pursue that though.

I gather this implies it likely wouldn't be disqualifying when it came to licensing either?

This would reasonably be considered an institutional action (IA).

Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® Application: Your Background Information

Guide for sections 1-3 of the AAMC's American Medical College Application Service® (AMCAS®) in which applicants will provide their background information.

students-residents.aamc.org

 

[GoSpursGo]

I agree with @gyngyn , this would count as an IA and would need to be reported. However, given that this happened 10+ years ago, and you have been a model citizen since, I think this can be chalked up to a mistake of being young and immature. If you explain it as you did here with remorse, I don’t think this would be a dealbreaker at most schools. Do be prepared to answer questions about it in an interview.

There still may be an argument to get the probation expunged and the civil charge sealed. Even if you still need to report to licensing in the future (and I think this may vary by state depending on the language of the application), there is still some power in saying that something has been expunged or sealed because that explicitly makes it clear that the courts have deemed this to have been an offense you have fully moved past.

 

[LunaOri]

Stalking would get you screened out at some schools.

 

[IlDestriero]

Stalking would get you screened out at some schools.

Is it stalking if you have no conviction?
Anyone can be suspected of anything and even falsely arrested or charged. This is a slippery slope you’re on.
I would sell this as 10 years ago my girlfriend and I had a bad relationship and a bad break up. She falsely accused me of stalking and all charges were dropped as was the protection order that she took out at the time. The university placed me on whatever probation as this was not sorted out yet. I never stalked anyone nor did I violate the unnecessary protection order as evidenced by the charges and order being dropped and I have had no IAs as a student or problems with law enforcement over the last decade.

 

[xffan624]

Is it stalking if you have no conviction?
Anyone can be suspected of anything and even falsely arrested or charged. This is a slippery slope you’re on.
I would sell this as 10 years ago my girlfriend and I had a bad relationship and a bad break up. She falsely accused me of stalking and all charges were dropped as was the protection order that she took out at the time. The university placed me on whatever probation as this was not sorted out yet. I never stalked anyone nor did I violate the unnecessary protection order as evidenced by the charges and order being dropped and I have had no IAs as a student or problems with law enforcement over the last decade.

The way I read it is the charges were dropped because OP deescalated appropriately after the protective order was filed and no further violations occurred. For anyone familiar with domestic violence and the court system, the fact that it got to charges and a protective order means that their likely was some concerning behavior. Could it have been complete railroading? I guess. But if OP wrote it up like that I would be suspicious that there was more to the story and they didn't really learn anything. The first explanation sounds much more like truth and growth to me.

 

[IlDestriero]

If he wrote that he was falsely accused of some crime and was proven innocent with all charges dropped you’d suspect that there’s more to the story and he didn’t learn anything? Ok. Guilty even when proven innocent? Nice.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

If he wrote that he was falsely accused of some crime and was proven innocent with all charges dropped you’d suspect that there’s more to the story and he didn’t learn anything? Ok. Guilty even when proven innocent? Nice.

He himself said that he was guilty of crossing a line. He shouldn't lie about something like that, it's not like he stole a loaf of bread to feed his starving family.

 

[IlDestriero]

He himself said that he was guilty of crossing a line. He shouldn't lie about something like that, it's not like he stole a loaf of bread to feed his starving family.

But that’s not what I’m taking about. The other poster quoted said if they wrote it up the way I had, they would assume “there was more to the story and they didn’t learn anything.” based on noting. The fact that the order was lifted and no charges were ever filed is apparently proof of guilt. When you’re falsely accused of a crime, there may be no real story and no lesson to learn. Perhaps they think he should admit guilt for a crime he didn’t commit. The University response was bizarre as well, I don’t think I would have rolled over and took that either. Punished for no crime. Nope! If they really thought he was a danger or a predator he shouldn’t be there at all, ever. Some half ass double secret probation doesn’t protect anyone from anything.

 

[Med Ed]

So your school put you in a restricted status and made you complete a program over dropped charges that occurred before you matriculated? That's harsh.

@GoSpursGo is correct (as usual). Expunge and seal everything you can before applying, and just be open and appropriately remorseful about the rest.

With regard to licensure, the 51 MD boards in the US each do things differently. Some can see sealed/expunged records for incidents that occurred in their respective states, others can't (or don't). Some ask about arrests and charges, others only ask about convictions. At least a couple don't ask about non-felonies that happened more than 7 years ago.

Even if they do ask, a dropped charge from 10+ years ago isn't going to raise any eyebrows.

 

[MedApp2223]

Here is an incomplete list of schools that ask about arrests, charges, dismissals, and/or expunged records. Primaries only ask about convictions.

“The presumption of innocence is a legal principle that every person accused of any crime is considered innocent until proven guilty.”

Have innocent people been arrested and charged with crimes they never committed before? Proof beyond reasonable doubt? Some schools don’t care regardless of outcome and will make assumptions about you and question your integrity. Besides, plenty of overqualified candidates that have never done anything wrong in their lives before..

Not all though. Many believe in redemption and see you as the person you’ve become not as a mistake you’ve made in the past. This is not an automatic disqualifier. There are plenty of people out there who have been convicted of misdemeanors and even some felonies who’ve become doctors. If you want to become a physician, you can. You get to decide that. It’s your life to live.