criminal record (class A assault and battery) medical school/medical license chances?

[BMC11]

It's in his book. He stabbed somebody with a knife, but the knife hit the guy's belt and didn't actually hurt him.

Other guy was charged and blamed it on stress because he really wanted to be a doctor and had a good lawyer, which is what OP needs.

Second guy was still in high school. Insanity plea or not, he was still a minor and you get a clean slate once you're an adult.

As for Ben Carson, he also may have been a juvenile at the time. The key word is still almost. He didn't end up stabbing anyone.

The issue for the OP is that he is a sane and rational adult who has had some opportunities in life...and he still committed a violent crime. Essentially, he could be a major risk for a school his episode turns out not to be an isolated incident. The conviction is a big deal.

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[EsotericAlchemy]

It's in his book. He stabbed somebody with a knife, but the knife hit the guy's belt and didn't actually hurt him.

Other guy was charged and blamed it on stress because he really wanted to be a doctor and had a good lawyer, which is what OP needs.

Obviously some differences, but pre-meds love to mount the high horse and gallop across the prairie screaming "You are not worthy!" whenever someone commits a mistake that we are all capable of.

Call me a pacifist if you wish. Though people have disappointed me in the past, I have not stabbed anyone. Nor do I intend to.

 

[Pattycake25]

It's in his book. He stabbed somebody with a knife, but the knife hit the guy's belt and didn't actually hurt him.

Other guy was charged and blamed it on stress because he really wanted to be a doctor and had a good lawyer, which is what OP needs.

Obviously some differences, but pre-meds love to mount the high horse and gallop across the prairie screaming "You are not worthy!" whenever someone commits a mistake that we are all capable of.

Carson was 15, and he also didn't exactly come from the cushiest of backgrounds. Haffizula was also a minor, and seeing as the judge ordered the parents into therapy as well as the son, it seems that they were a stunting influence on his emotional development. It's crucial that neither of them were convicted of anything, let alone as adults (Carson was never charged with jack ****, and Jason was acquitted), which means neither of them had to tell adcoms about their violent episodes. The OP does. I know that some (a lot) of SDN goers are quite judgmental, but it's not being judgmental to tell the OP he's a goner, so long as you don't gloat over it.

 

[V5RED]

Second guy was still in high school. Insanity plea or not, he was still a minor and you get a clean slate once you're an adult.

As for Ben Carson, he also may have been a juvenile at the time. The key word is still almost. He didn't end up stabbing anyone.

The issue for the OP is that he is a sane and rational adult who has had some opportunities in life...and he still committed a violent crime. Essentially, he could be a major risk for a school his episode turns out not to be an isolated incident. The conviction is a big deal.

The bolded is untrue. Many people get "charged as adults", a truly idiotic way to do things since it is saying you become an adult by being a mega *****. I have a friend who is done for life for a choice he made while underage. He ****ed up badly, but my point is that the idea of clean slating is untrue as per my friend.

 

[hoihaie]

Yes, but all of you are forgetting that OP already plead guilty to the charges and served the time. There's no lawyer that can get him acquitted or have the charges dropped.

 

[ciestar]

The bolded is untrue. Many people get "charged as adults", a truly idiotic way to do things since it is saying you become an adult by being a mega *****. I have a friend who is done for life for a choice he made while underage. He ****** up badly, but my point is that the idea of clean slating is untrue as per my friend.

Even when you're charged as a juvenile, certain things still show up on a federal background check. Try joining the military with a juvenile drug possession charge. Clean slates don't exactly exist.

 

[yanks26dmb]

@LizzyM - I've been reading your responses in this thread, and I'm feeling a little neurotic about my own situation, so would love your feedback..

I too have a past, was charged with marijuana possession and fraud (fake ID) back in 2003 as a 19 year old freshman in college. Never convicted, adjudication was withheld, and I was given youthful offender status so it's not on my record (I believe only the FBI could look it up). I'm 30 now, with a clean record since this incident....should I be worried?

 

[Goro]

11 years ago is a long time. Fraud is a crime against property, not person. An exemplary record since that time will go a long way to showing Adcoms that the you of then is not the you of now.

@LizzyM - I've been reading your responses in this thread, and I'm feeling a little neurotic about my own situation, so would love your feedback..

I too have a past, was charged with marijuana possession and fraud (fake ID) back in 2003 as a 19 year old freshman in college. Never convicted, adjudication was withheld, and I was given youthful offender status so it's not on my record (I believe only the FBI could look it up). I'm 30 now, with a clean record since this incident....should I be worried?

 

[LizzyM]

11 years ago is a long time. Fraud is a crime against property, not person. An exemplary record since that time will go a long way to showing Adcoms that the you of then is not the you of now.

I concur. Pot and a fake ID a decade ago is a light years away from doing 4 days in jail for assault.

 

[gyngyn]

I was given youthful offender status so it's not on my record (I believe only the FBI could look it up). I'm 30 now, with a clean record since this incident....should I be worried?

Government health care facilities (VA, County Hospitals, jails...) also have access to a deeper level of security check than Certiphi. The "FBI" is a euphemism for the government.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Government health care facilities (VA, County Hospitals, jails...) also have access to a deeper level of security check than Certiphi.

I know the court where all this transpired can't even find a record of it when I called for additional details. I remember my attorney saying only an Fbi check would turn something up...but in any event, do you think the above would preclude me from rotating at one of those above mentioned hospitals?

 

[gyngyn]

I know the court where all this transpired can't even find a record of it when I called for additional details. I remember my attorney saying only an Fbi check would turn something up...but in any event, do you think the above would preclude me from rotating at one of those above mentioned hospitals?

I doubt it. More likely it would delay the issuance of your badge until additional processing clears you. As previously noted, your offense is not one of moral turpitude.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Here's something you might need to read again to remember why everyone needs to pass a criminal records test:

"I do solemnly swear by that which I hold most sacred: that I will be loyal to the profession of medicine and just and generous to its members; that I will lead my life and practice my art in uprightness and honor; that into whatsoever house I shall enter, it shall be for the good of the sick to the utmost of my power; I, holding myself aloof from wrong, from corruption, and from the temptation of others to vice; that I will exercise my art solely for the cure of my patients, and will give no drug, perform no operation for a criminal purpose, even if solicited, and far less suggest such a thing; that whatsoever I shall see or hear of the lives of others which is not fitting to be spoken, I will keep inviolably secret.

These things I do promise, and in proportion as I am faithful to this, my oath, may happiness and good repute be ever mine — the opposite if I shall be forsworn."

 

[Hsto]

I doubt it. More likely it would delay the issuance of your badge until additional processing clears you. As previously noted, your offense is not one of moral turpitude.

I'm confused. Where is the line between this indiscretion can be overlooked/accepted and this one can't?

I posted a couple of weeks ago regarding the misdemeanor shoplifting charge I received 4 years ago, one week after turning 18. The responses I received were optimistic. However, isn't this an issue of moral turpitude?

Sorry, I'm just a little neurotic and have seen many posts where some offenses can be forgiven but some cannot. And generally "moral turpitude" is seen as cannot?

 

[greenlion]

I'm confused. Where is the line between this indiscretion can be overlooked/accepted and this one can't?

I posted a couple of weeks ago regarding the misdemeanor shoplifting charge I received 4 years ago, one week after turning 18. The responses I received were optimistic. However, isn't this an issue of moral turpitude?

Sorry, I'm just a little neurotic and have seen many posts where some offenses can be forgiven but some cannot. And generally "moral turpitude" is seen as cannot?

Yeah- you're not going to get a definitive answer to that because there is none.


-Med school: adcoms can do whatever they want- unlike medical licenses, seats in a medical school are extremely limited and hence they can be (and are) much less forgiving. Seems like most of them are flexible with youthful indiscretions like yours though. I don't know if this is true or not but I hear that the criminal history is viewed AFTER deciding based on other stats (i.e. stats/ecs/letters are good so tentative interview -> oh but there's this misdemeanor should we still interview? -> yes/no) which might be helpful.

-Licensing: less stringent. Emphasis is on "can he/she be an asset to the community" vs. "is he/she the best applicant we can get". Many states have certain felonies that are an automatic no-go (e.g. Florida: a felony under Chapter 409, F.S., (relating to social and economic assistance), Chapter 817, F.S., (relating to fraudulent practices), Chapter 893, F.S., (relating to drug abuse prevention and control)) But everything else is voted on/a stipulated decision. Misdemeanors pass through 99.9% of the time (seems to me)- even the OP's. Rarely, given the right circumstances, felonies can pass through as well (in one case a rape conviction was allowed to pass because the circumstances were forgivable (according the voting board members)- he had started a relationship and the victim was asleep, for some reason he believed he had implied consent). It can vary from state to state (anecdotally California seems to be the most strict)- however if one state already denied you a license then that's a big black mark for future license applications in other states. Of course passing through is not white or black- often times it could require years of probtation, ethics courses, volunteer hours, random drug screening, not working independently, not seeing female patients, working in a gov facility only, etc

 

[Goro]

Concur.
Yeah- you're not going to get a definitive answer to that because there is none.

Depends upon whether schools pre-screen or not. Mine doesn't, so if I saw an app with multiple DUis , the most recent one being last year., I'd conclude here's someone who doesn't learn his/her lessons, and has a drinking problem to boot. I'd reject the person out of hand, and polite smile at them in interview, and ask maybe one softball question, because I don't want to waste much time on an applicant like this.

We cut people a lot of slack for immaturity at age 18-19. By 20-21, you should know better. Crimes against property will be viewed in context, but are taken more leniently than crimes against persons.

Someone once posted WAMC and the person had a big fat IA of being suspended for hacking into the school's grade system and changed grades. He also claimed that "his co-conspirators made him do it". This is a classic example of moral turpitude, and would lead to auto-rejects.

I don't know if this is true or not but I hear that the criminal history is viewed AFTER deciding based on other stats (i.e. stats/ecs/letters are good so tentative interview -> oh but there's this misdemeanor should we still interview? -> yes/no) which might be helpful.

 

[Gauss44]

Was OP convicted or only charged?

I know of a similar scenario where a premed was "charged" with the crime of assault and battery and found innocent at trial. (His lawyer told him to only say that he was found "innocent" if asked about it in interviews, and not get into details about what happened or why it happened.)

 

[deleted480308]

Was OP convicted or only charged?

I know of a similar scenario where a premed was "charged" with the crime of assault and battery and found innocent at trial. (His lawyer told him to only say that he was found "innocent" if asked about it in interviews, and not get into details about what happened or why it happened.)

just being particular here....no one is found innocent at a trial. They are innocent until proven guilty and can be found not guilty at trial.

 

[Gauss44]

just being particular here....no one is found innocent at a trial. They are innocent until proven guilty and can be found not guilty at trial.

"Innocent until proven guilty." So, arguably, "not guilty" = "innocent." I see your point though.

 

[Pattycake25]

Was OP convicted or only charged?

I know of a similar scenario where a premed was "charged" with the crime of assault and battery and found innocent at trial. (His lawyer told him to only say that he was found "innocent" if asked about it in interviews, and not get into details about what happened or why it happened.)

He clearly said in one of his posts he was "found guilty". Ergo, convicted.

Depends upon whether schools pre-screen or not. Mine doesn't, so if I saw an app with multiple DUis , the most recent one being last year., I'd conclude here's someone who doesn't learn his/her lessons, and has a drinking problem to boot. I'd reject the person out of hand, and polite smile at them in interview, and ask maybe one softball question, because I don't want to waste much time on an applicant like this.

I find it very unfortunate, that someone who probably doesn't have any chance would still be invited to interview anyway. I can't see there being many adcoms who would be more forgiving than you. Seems like a powerful argument in favor OF pre-screening, for the applicant's own sake.

 

[Goro]

I heartily agree. I sometimes get annoyed at our wily old admissions Dean when he invites people who are DOA. Unfortunately, it's a matter of resources...we simply have too lean an Admissions office to have the luxury of pre-screening.



I find it very unfortunate, that someone who probably doesn't have any chance would still be invited to interview anyway. I can't see there being many adcoms who would be more forgiving than you. Seems like a powerful argument in favor OF pre-screening, for the applicant's own sake.[/QUOTE]

 

[Gauss44]

He clearly said in one of his posts he was "found guilty"...

I think he deleted that post. And I know a premed in a similar situation who was "charged" and found "not guilty." I was going to ask about this. I guess I could still do so in a separate thread.

 

[Gauss44]

....I find it very unfortunate, that someone who probably doesn't have any chance would still be invited to interview anyway...

Me too.

Why I agree: It's too expensive for the applicant to be paying for airline tickets, etc. when s/he doesn't have a chance. And it's a waste of ADCOM's time.

 

[mysdnhandle]

It's in his book. He stabbed somebody with a knife, but the knife hit the guy's belt and didn't actually hurt him.

Other guy was charged and blamed it on stress because he really wanted to be a doctor and had a good lawyer, which is what OP needs.

Obviously some differences, but pre-meds love to mount the high horse and gallop across the prairie screaming "You are not worthy!" whenever someone commits a mistake that we are all capable of.

We actually mount the high horse and gallop across the prairie screaming "death"...

 

[HopefulSlav]

I know a doctor who had two DUI's and he's on the board of a hospital now. Then again it was before MADD and the punishment was community service.

I would talk to a lawyer and ask about getting the charge expunged. Since it was a misdemeanor you may have some luck.

As far as military goes, if you can prove that you've improved yourself (halo around your head) you may get a shot. You may have to wait years.