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TraumadocRN

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  1. Pre-Medical
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I am a non-traditional premed student and have been questioning what I should do. I have always wanted to be an MD in EM. I am married with 3 young children range 9 months to 5 years. My wife is finishing up her teaching degree and will be finished in May. I am very excited about the prospect of finally attempting my dream of becoming an MD. However, I am concerned, I have read a great number of the posts on this forum (not just non trad forum) and have become a bit discouraged. ie 4 years of med school, very low pay in residency, At least 2 more years of premed. I am an RN as well. How have you guys/gals handled the financial burdens, the time management issues, the financial burdens lol? Are there options or opportunities, time to make money while in residency? What are average salaries while in residency? Would I have the time to pick up extra nursing shifts while in med school? Have any others had success in this type venture? I would love to hear from you. I have millions of questions. My biggest fears: 1. Neglecting my young family. 2. Taking my family into financial hardship? 3. Is physician salaries REALLY all that they are stereotyped to be? (huge) How do you do it? I just don't want my dreams and aspirations to tear my young family apart.
 
I am a non-traditional premed student and have been questioning what I should do. I have always wanted to be an MD in EM. I am married with 3 young children range 9 months to 5 years. My wife is finishing up her teaching degree and will be finished in May. I am very excited about the prospect of finally attempting my dream of becoming an MD. However, I am concerned, I have read a great number of the posts on this forum (not just non trad forum) and have become a bit discouraged. ie 4 years of med school, very low pay in residency, At least 2 more years of premed. I am an RN as well. How have you guys/gals handled the financial burdens, the time management issues, the financial burdens lol? Are there options or opportunities, time to make money while in residency? What are average salaries while in residency? Would I have the time to pick up extra nursing shifts while in med school? Have any others had success in this type venture? I would love to hear from you. I have millions of questions. My biggest fears: 1. Neglecting my young family. 2. Taking my family into financial hardship? 3. Is physician salaries REALLY all that they are stereotyped to be? (huge) How do you do it? I just don't want my dreams and aspirations to tear my young family apart.
 
The fact is that most of medical education is an anachronism. The system evolved in a completely different society. In that time medical students were young, single men who could get through med school on loans and survive the low pay of residency. Today non-traditional students are having hardship with that system. Is it impossible? No. Lots of people do it successfully. Is it tough and will you be facing challenges that your classmates will not? Yes.

You will sacrifice time at home. Med school is at least a full time job and residency is at least two full time jobs at the same time. There will be rewards, you can expect to make about 3-4x what a nurse does. The flexability of EM fits well with a family.

I'd say it comes down to how much you want to be a doc and how much your spouses job can keep you afloat during the hard years.
 
I just want to be the best daddy, husband, provider, doctor. I know I am not the only person to ever go through this, but I sure feel alone right now. I have a very supportive spouse but my babies are so young.
 
Thank you so much for the post. I feel like I am looking down the barrel so to speak. (not literally) I have gone through school with the goal of becoming an ER physician, from Paramedic to nurse to premed. I went the long way around just so I could be a provider while going after my dream. The good thing is my wife is a very supportive partner. I know I am rambling but it is really nice to have someone to talk to about this.
 
Has the OP thought about becoming some sort of Advanced Practice Nurse in EM?

If you still have 2 years of pre-med stuff to go you are looking at minimum of 9 years before you can practice. This assumes that you get into med school your first time, don't fail anything while there, and then match into a 3 year program.

It is doubtful that the twin goals of making this a financially solvent decision and spending alot of time with your family are going to be achieved. Residents make less than any med-surg/micu/er nurse I know. Moonlighting is available during residency but must be done during free-time/vacations. I say that not to rain on your parade but just to be realistic.
 
Costs of attending medical school are quite high and average debt burden for graduates of medical schools is around $150K for medical school (you can add undergraduate costs to this). This can be offset by scholarships with high academic performance (compared to the rest of your classmates) incoming and while in medical school are the keys to obtaining these scholarships.

Pay in residency is dependent on the part of the country in which you do residency and increase slightly by post graduate year. PGY-1 salaries start around $39-40K with about a $1K increase per year. Moonlighting is highly dependent upon the residency program that you enter. Some residency programs strictly prohibit moonlighting and some allow limited moonlighting once you have an unrestricted license (After all three USMLE Steps are passed). You also have to pay your own malpractice insurance if you engage in moonlighting.

Also be aware that if you borrow money for medical school, the debt is accruing on the sum that you borrow while you in residency. The interest rates can vary unless you consolidate and lock in a specific rate. Congress has also been toying with eliminating the hardship deferment on student loans making it pretty difficult to live on a resident's salary and pay on your loans at the same time if you have a huge amount of debt from undergrad + medical school.

Again, residency (after 4 years of medical school) lasts from 3 to 7 years depending on the specialty with the surgical specialties being 5 to 7 years and the non-surgical specialties being 3-4 years. While you are in residency, your salary will be low especially if you count the number of hours that you will spend at the hospital (somewhere between 50 to max 80). Again, the surgical specialties tend to have the higher numbers for work hours. Most residency programs have on-call every 3-6 days where you will be in the hospital overnight. In addition, there is study and reading that every resident must undertake and keep up with in order to perform high in in-training exams and practice level (the criteria for promotion in residency).

Even getting into residency is quite dependent upon your performance in medical school and on board exams. Since you mentioned EM, you may find that this is a fairly competitive residency which demands a fairly high medical school performance (no chip shot or given). Translated, you are going to be putting in some hours studying first and second year in order to be sure that you have the medical school grades and board scores to be competitive for EM.

While salaries post residency (and board certification) are good, there are no guarantees that salaries will stay where they are especially for those folks who are not in medical school at this point. I would not look to any part of medicine as a "road to wealth and happiness". For Emergency Medicine, you have minimum of 4 years of medical school and 4 years of residency before you see any substantial income. Also keep in mind that you will not be doing much working during medical school because you need good grades to be competitive for residency.
 
The way I see it, medicine is delayed gratification. You do earn significantly higher than many of the workforce but it takes so long before you actually do that. It's not something you will go to for the money. In fact, my classmates and I often joke that you need to have some dose of masochism to survive the entire medical education process--which by the way is a lifetime!

Here in the US, I am surprised that there are many ways of "practicing" medicine without having to go through the drill. Of course, they probably had their own walls to contend with, but they are definitely shorter and arguably easier. I have a friend who is a naturopathic doctor and another who is a chinese medicine specialist, and another who is a nurse practitioner...they're there...Im still waiting to get a residency slot...

That being said however, I think in the end it all boils down to what you really want. Medicine in its common sense just appeals to me--there have been many sleepless nights when I wanted to quit, but I didn't. I still am able to find meaning in running to the lab and filling out paperworks :laugh:
 
You are very lucky that your wife will have an income and health insurance while you are in school. Here is what we did and it may help you also.

The second your wife gets a teaching job, try living on her income only. Downsize everything in your life (we did, smaller house, cars we could pay cash for ETC) prove to yourself before school that you can survive on her income only. Then take money you make during this process and either pay down any debt (thereby downsizing your monthly expenses) or saving like crazy (make sure to make the most of this savings in the mean time).

We did this and we were able to pay off ALL DEBT so that our monthly expenses are only food, gas, heat, phone. WE saved enough money (smith barney has been doing wonders with it also) to pay tuition from our savings.

I plan on moonlighting in the ER 2-3 shifts a month while in school-that should easily pay off our monthly expenses and my wife can stay at home with our two toddlers.

The fact that your wife has/will have an income has you ahead of the game! IF you live lean, you can do it! Good luck!!!
 
I just want to be the best daddy, husband, provider, doctor. I know I am not the only person to ever go through this, but I sure feel alone right now. I have a very supportive spouse but my babies are so young.

It is daunting to see all of that laid out before you, but it is possible. I have three children also (from 2 months to 5 years), and I know that there will be some sacrafices that I have to make that will kill me inside, but I know that this is what will be best for everyone in the long run. Yes, I will accumulate alot of debt. The hospital that I used to work at paid in the mid 40's for residents a few years ago, so I'm not expecting to bring home substantial money for many many years. The money works itself out over time. As much as I hate the idea, we will just have to take out whatever loans that we need to get by, and be in debt for a while. I think that an education is the best debt that you can incur, so I'll do what I have to.

The one thing that I have had to accept going back to school with kids is that I can't put 100% in anywhere. I won't be the class validictorian, and I won't be the PTA mom either. My husband has to pick up some slack at home, and we have a good nanny that helps to make sure that the little things that I want to do, like walk/drive the kids to school and have them at home instead of a daycare, still happen. My plan is to study at scheduled times (at school or after the kids are asleep), so I still have planned quality time with my family. I just have to keep in mind that my family will always be a priority to me, so I'm not going to pick a more time consuming specialty, and I'm going to do my best to be with them as much as I can.

My feeling is that I would rather make my sacrafices now and do a job that I love for 30+ years than do a job that I hate for the rest of my life and probably have to make sacrafices anyways. My family will be happier if I'm happy also.
 
If your ambition is to become a doctor and practice in ER .... some options :

1) MD 4yrs in USA + Residency 3yrs EM
Pros :you get to become MD and do your desired specialty, EM has
lifestyle suited for family , good salary after residency.
Cons: hardwork , financial strain , high LOAN burden , might have to
spend less time with your family as medical education is hectic .
USMLE exams ....
2) MD or MBBch in Ireland , MBBS in New Zealand or Australia , Poland etc
+ Residency in EM in USA
Pros : the same as above , less financial strain after MD degree
Cons : as FMG getting into EM residency would be harder but not
impossible ...
3) MD 4 yrs in Canada + Residency EM in USA ....
Pros : less financial strain compared to USA ....best part is you are not
considered a FMG when applying to programs ...
Cons : same as for doing it in USA ... still have to give USMLE exams for
residency ..

Basically it depends on your budget to do the MD course first ....so are the best judge when it comes to that ... hopefully your spouse should be understanding of the difficulties you and your family would face .... the rewards are good in the end for all the options above....no easy answers..
 
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