Culture

[erg923]

*I posted this in the psychology forum but would also love see thoughts from here as well.

Allow me to vent...and then post comments or thoughts.

The more work I do, the more I notice a trend in my VA patients to prefer to be by themselves. I am NOT really referring to the social withdrawal that comes with clinical depression/anhedonia or PTSD either. I'm talking about a general personality trait/preference, as well as an irritability and intolerance for others that also appears equally stable and global. I am not sure how pervasive this is in other mental health settings, but I would assume it is there to some degree?

This, in my opinion, perhaps reflects the current culture we live in where many seem to be more enraptured in their own world, own interests, etc. Perhaps this comes from technology? Perhaps the rugged individualism of Western (especially US) culture? So many of my patients are socially disconnected and uninvolved...even with their immediate families (wife, children, etc.) AND they prefer this and see little problem with it. I guess I am just sad to see this. I dont know. Personally, I see much problem with the erosion of "community" (or the percived importance of community) in the fabric of our lives, and I believe it is responsible for alot of the decay in standards of behavior and personal morality. While I cherish the freedom we all have as individuals in this country, the "individualism" thing has swung so far that now we view OURSELVES (our wants, our needs, our preferences, our freedoms) as being of PREMIER importance and that we are only responsible for ourselves. I think this underlying belief is reflected in many common practices, governmental/institutional policies, and behavioral trends in recent years. I am just now sure how "just" this really is. My grandfather, who is 91, always says that the biggest difference between today and when he grew-up in the 30s and 40s isn’t advances in technology or knowledge, it is people's attitude towards one another.

Mother Theresa once said: "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other…"

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[Shikima]

The more work I do, the more I notice a trend in my VA patients to prefer to be by themselves. I am NOT really referring to the social withdrawal that comes with clinical depression/anhedonia or PTSD either. I'm talking about a general personality trait/preference, as well and an irritability and intolerance for others that also appears equally stable and global.

Speaking as a Vet myself, I will agree with this observation.

 

[erg923]

Speaking as a Vet myself, I will agree with this observation.

So what do you think this is about?

 

[Shikima]

So what do you think this is about?

Can't say... you did a good job articulating it. Need time to digest this.

 

[Armadillos]

I wonder how big of a difference this is in vets vs general population. I feel like going through what the military puts you through is going to have a pretty drastic impact on your personality/values independent of any actual PTSD.

Kind of interesting in the context of individualism/reliance on others because isn't one of the main goals of military training to make individuals reliant on each other and function for the benefit of the group as opposed to themselves? (Which is odd to think about because on average the military people I know tend to be much more the "pull yourself up on your own" type, so kind of hard for me to reconcile those two things)

 

[birchswing]

I see this happening in families. There isn't an outward hostility, but people just sort of give up on family roles and get glued to iPads. Also depends on where you live. Some areas of the world people are suspicious if you say hi, others are much more outgoing.

 

[novopsych]

*I posted this in the psychology forum but would also love see thoughts from here as well.

Allow me to vent...and then post comments or thoughts.

The more work I do, the more I notice a trend in my VA patients to prefer to be by themselves. I am NOT really referring to the social withdrawal that comes with clinical depression/anhedonia or PTSD either. I'm talking about a general personality trait/preference, as well as an irritability and intolerance for others that also appears equally stable and global. I am not sure how pervasive this is in other mental health settings, but I would assume it is there to some degree?

This, in my opinion, perhaps reflects the current culture we live in where many seem to be more enraptured in their own world, own interests, etc. Perhaps this comes from technology? Perhaps the rugged individualism of Western (especially US) culture? So many of my patients are socially disconnected and uninvolved...even with their immediate families (wife, children, etc.) AND they prefer this and see little problem with it. I guess I am just sad to see this. I dont know. Personally, I see much problem with the erosion of "community" (or the percived importance of community) in the fabric of our lives, and I believe it is responsible for alot of the decay in standards of behavior and personal morality. While I cherish the freedom we all have as individuals in this country, the "individualism" thing has swung so far that now we view OURSELVES (our wants, our needs, our preferences, our freedoms) as being of PREMIER importance and that we are only responsible for ourselves. I think this underlying belief is reflected in many common practices, governmental/institutional policies, and behavioral trends in recent years. I am just now sure how "just" this really is. My grandfather, who is 91, always says that the biggest difference between today and when he grew-up in the 30s and 40s isn’t advances in technology or knowledge, it is people's attitude towards one another.

Mother Theresa once said: "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other…"

[redacted]
I'll put this more diplomatically. You have a bit of a collectivist world view that is probably informed by the religion you have mentioned numerous times before. That is my observation.

 

[erg923]

[redacted]
I'll put this more diplomatically. You have a bit of a collectivist world view that is probably informed by the religion you have mentioned numerous times before. That is my observation.

I make no secret of that. But none of that changes the fact that if one doesn't really value anything outside their own world/self, this generally leads to problems...both to the individual and for society in general over time. Very relevant to mental health/psychiatry/psychology.

 

[freaker]

I see less evidence that this is about rugged individualism than narcissistic self-centeredness that is frankly encouraged by a society driven by selling people crap and generally a culture that has arisen since the 1960s that if it makes you feel good immediately, immediately do it--and anything to to the contrary is castigated--noting the big difference between this and the rugged individaul. Go look at a table of teenage girls sitting together. They'll far too often be browsing Twitter and Instagram on their phones, taking pictures of themselves, posting them on their phones, and occasionally commneting to one another about them or adding someone else to their selfies to give the appearance to others that they have friends--something akin to props on a stage. It's some of the most fraudulent social interaction I've ever seen--completely vain and devoid of substance or meaning. Same thing with a bunch of guys hanging around playing XBox--or worse, 35-year old supposed men.

Society expects little to nothing of individuals today. Do it if it's your thing. If it's not, it's okay. Have a kid whenever and with whoever. Or none at all. Pretty much the only rule is "don't judge," unless someone should dare place an expectation on someone else. Individuals spend hours per day sitting in front of a box projecting images that are the most efficient at selling garbage. To socialize, they sit in front of this box while viewing smaller boxes that are also interested in selling them things. Even when we're "together," far too often there is little actual social interaction.

The rugged individualism theory just doesn't hold water given the growing hoards subscribing to social welfare programs and frankly doing little to stand for the individual rights of others. It makes a lot more sense to look at the way things have gone looking for more self-importance and instant gratification. See the rise in divorce rates, the deconstructed family, and the rest of the social reforms of the recent decades to explain the decline in community. When the family means nothing, how do you expect anyone to value a community?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

On reflection as I neared termination with my patients, I realized that a good deal of them were struggling with schizoid types of issues (trouble with true intimacy, strong desire for autonomy). I think that's kind of where we're at socially and not just at the VA.

 

[erg923]

I see less evidence that this is about rugged individualism than narcissistic self-centeredness that is frankly encouraged by a society driven by selling people crap and generally a culture that has arisen since the 1960s that if it makes you feel good immediately, immediately do it--and anything to to the contrary is castigated--noting the big difference between this and the rugged individaul. Go look at a table of teenage girls sitting together. They'll far too often be browsing Twitter and Instagram on their phones, taking pictures of themselves, posting them on their phones, and occasionally commneting to one another about them or adding someone else to their selfies to give the appearance to others that they have friends--something akin to props on a stage. It's some of the most fraudulent social interaction I've ever seen--completely vain and devoid of substance or meaning. Same thing with a bunch of guys hanging around playing XBox--or worse, 35-year old supposed men.

Society expects little to nothing of individuals today. Do it if it's your thing. If it's not, it's okay. Have a kid whenever and with whoever. Or none at all. Pretty much the only rule is "don't judge," unless someone should dare place an expectation on someone else. Individuals spend hours per day sitting in front of a box projecting images that are the most efficient at selling garbage. To socialize, they sit in front of this box while viewing smaller boxes that are also interested in selling them things. Even when we're "together," far too often there is little actual social interaction.

The rugged individualism theory just doesn't hold water given the growing hoards subscribing to social welfare programs and frankly doing little to stand for the individual rights of others. It makes a lot more sense to look at the way things have gone looking for more self-importance and instant gratification. See the rise in divorce rates, the deconstructed family, and the rest of the social reforms of the recent decades to explain the decline in community. When the family means nothing, how do you expect anyone to value a community?

Wow, did you watch that lastest episode of "Girl Meets World" too?" lol

Honestly, I dont really conceptualize this as a "kids these days with their rock and roll music" kind of thing. And frankly, I like X-box. But I take it like I do my bourbon or a bowl of ice cream. In moderation. Also, FYI, the "generation ME" research literature if fraught with methodological problems, and the perception that today's youth are the most spolied, lazy, or inept generation ever goes back to the time of the Romans. Lots of good sociological research there, so....

I do believe that a culture shift has taken place, but you can find other countries with just as much technology that do NOT have these type of culture shift happening, so I wonder what thats about?

 

[Armadillos]

I see less evidence that this is about rugged individualism than narcissistic self-centeredness that is frankly encouraged by a society driven by selling people crap and generally a culture that has arisen since the 1960s that if it makes you feel good immediately, immediately do it--and anything to to the contrary is castigated--noting the big difference between this and the rugged individaul. Go look at a table of teenage girls sitting together. They'll far too often be browsing Twitter and Instagram on their phones, taking pictures of themselves, posting them on their phones, and occasionally commneting to one another about them or adding someone else to their selfies to give the appearance to others that they have friends--something akin to props on a stage. It's some of the most fraudulent social interaction I've ever seen--completely vain and devoid of substance or meaning. Same thing with a bunch of guys hanging around playing XBox--or worse, 35-year old supposed men.

Society expects little to nothing of individuals today. Do it if it's your thing. If it's not, it's okay. Have a kid whenever and with whoever. Or none at all. Pretty much the only rule is "don't judge," unless someone should dare place an expectation on someone else. Individuals spend hours per day sitting in front of a box projecting images that are the most efficient at selling garbage. To socialize, they sit in front of this box while viewing smaller boxes that are also interested in selling them things. Even when we're "together," far too often there is little actual social interaction.

The rugged individualism theory just doesn't hold water given the growing hoards subscribing to social welfare programs and frankly doing little to stand for the individual rights of others. It makes a lot more sense to look at the way things have gone looking for more self-importance and instant gratification. See the rise in divorce rates, the deconstructed family, and the rest of the social reforms of the recent decades to explain the decline in community. When the family means nothing, how do you expect anyone to value a community?

Did your talking points come straight off the desk of Rush Limbaugh?

 

[hamstergang]

Reminds me of this xkcd comic: