CUM GPA: 3.4, BCPM: 3.09, tons of research and ECs. What should I do?

[streudels]

I'm doing a double degree in Biology and the Humanities w/ college honors. I currently have a BCPM of 3.09 (went to college at 16, didn't understand how serious applying to med schools were back then) and a cum GPA of 3.4. I still have two qtrs left and can raise it up to a 3.5. There's a strong upward trend (2.9 freshman, to a 3.8+ senior year). I've done neurobio research (2 yrs), education research (2 yrs), have a strong theoretical background (thesis 1 yr), public health-related research (1 yr). I'm the pres of a student org, have held leadership positions in Model UN (2 yrs), leadership in local campus UNICEF chapter and honors student board (both 1 yr). TONS of other activities I was actively invovled in. Very limited clinical experience and shadowing. I have a VERY strong interest in global health.

What are my chances of getting into med school? There's a lot of randomness in my app most def. I'm giving myself one more year before I start applying. Should I opt for post-bacc/SMPs or a masters (I've been pushed by my professors to get a PhD in the social sciences...)??

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[hoya09]

You've got a similar story to mine (see my MD apps), so I'll weigh in... Your sGPA is going to cause some problems. You make no mention of the MCAT, so I'll assume you haven't taken it yet. When you do take it, you need to knock it out of the park. If you get a 35+, I'd consider applying without additional coursework. You won't have an easy cycle, but you'll have a chance of getting in somewhere. That being said, no matter what your MCAT turns out to be, more 4.0 ugrad coursework will definitely help your chances. Grad coursework will not help. A PhD in social sciences will make you interesting, but beyond that, do nothing to get you into med school. If anything it could hurt you because you'd be put in the position of (re)taking your MCAT several years out of your basic science coursework (trust me on this point, I was seriously considering this option pre-acceptance). If you have any questions for me, feel free to PM me anytime. Best of luck

 

[sindadel]

I would suggest taking an extra year of undergrad with more upper-division science classes to raise your BPCM. You should get close to a 4.0 with a full courseload to demonstrate that you've pulled your socks up now.

Do well on the MCAT goes without saying. 33+ seems like a bare minimum. And definitely beef up your clinical exposure as it's a weak point in your app. Good luck!

 

[streudels]

Thanks for your replies. You're right, I haven't taken the MCAT, but I intend to get a 40+ to alleviate the damage done by my terrible sGPA. I'm already on my 5th yr, so taking another year in college is not an option. 😛

I'm really looking to go to medical schools that have a strong focus on global health, but after some research, I realize that they are some of the top SOMs in the country (UPenn, UMich, not to mention UCSF and Harvard..). I'd do anything within the next two years to eventually be given a chance to be seriously considered, but my ugrad GPA is seriously dragging me down. I don't understand how an admissions system can be so unforgiving --- I mean, I understand that there are tons of students out there who started strong sooner than I did and have a better chance of getting in --- but for those who developed a stronger conviction later, and who may have the same level of intelligence and passion --- what means can they attempt to be "forgiven"?

I don't want to get a PhD for the sake of getting into med school; I don't think that medicine is the be all and end all of my career and my life. I see it as inextricably connected to my vision of becoming an academic who not only is involved in the theory of health/human rights/int'l relations, but also in policy making and service provision in the form of medicine. I'm sure other med school applicants have expressed this as well. I think my issue is, I'm trying to understand how I can use the time I have to optimize my chances within an admission system that would already cut me down on account of my 'numbers.' How far can explaining yourself take you?

 

[hoya09]

Thanks for your replies. You're right, I haven't taken the MCAT, but I intend to get a 40+ to alleviate the damage done by my terrible sGPA.

Easier said than done, but you're right to aim high.

I'm already on my 5th yr, so taking another year in college is not an option. 😛

I'd do anything within the next two years to eventually be given a chance to be seriously considered, but my ugrad GPA is seriously dragging me down.

These two statements seem somewhat incompatible. You may need more ugrad coursework to improve your chances of getting in *anywhere*, let alone the programs that you mention later. What we've told you, and what you'll undoubtedly hear a few more times is that if you'd "do anything", you'd might as well do what will help... that being more ugrad. See www.back2college.com for a GPA calculator. It will tell you how much coursework you need to get your desired GPA (which for Harvard and UPenn is 3.7+). I got by without doing a postbacc, but my top choice school was not high tier and I kept my options open (applied to 20+ schools, plus DO).

I'm really looking to go to medical schools that have a strong focus on global health, but after some research, I realize that they are some of the top SOMs in the country (UPenn, UMich, not to mention UCSF and Harvard..).

More reasonably, should you not get a 40+ MCAT, would be GW and Tulane. Both have excellent programs in Public Health.

I don't want to get a PhD for the sake of getting into med school; I don't think that medicine is the be all and end all of my career and my life. I see it as inextricably connected to my vision of becoming an academic who not only is involved in the theory of health/human rights/int'l relations, but also in policy making and service provision in the form of medicine. I'm sure other med school applicants have expressed this as well.

No one gets a PhD just to help them get into med school. That would be a huge waste of time. I don't have time right now to explain the connections I see between my Linguistics PhD (w/ research in Dr-Pt communication) and medicine, but know that I feel similarly. Still, I wasn't about to wait the 5-7 yrs for a PhD before pursuing medicine. I knew that 5-7 years down the road, I would be an even less competitive MD applicant and that I would have less options to improve myself (read: I would be giving up my MD dreams).

How far can explaining yourself take you?

I'll put it this way: I spent the majority of my college years with an undiagnosed, chronic, and somewhat rare disease. I didn't use it to "explain" my GPA, but it was certainly mentioned. I also had the more typical "transition difficulties" and self inflicted academic/extracirricular overload. Now look at the rejected section of my MD apps. I'll let you draw your own conclusions about "explaining yourself".

I know this post sounds harsher than my last one, but you ultimately need someone to tell you that if you want to get into UPenn or Harvard, you have a long way to go. If you want to get into any allopathic MD school, the road is shorter but still exceedingly difficult for people in our situation. Again, I wish you the best of luck... especially on the 40+ MCAT front...

 

[streudels]

Thanks for that refreshing splash of cold water. What you're saying is what I've been thinking with regards to my situation, but I was hoping it would be otherwise. My "do anything" maxim notwithstanding, taking 6-7 yrs of ugrad is too ridiculous to entertain (my univ. already wants me out bec I'm a fifth yr, not to mention the financial difficulties that I'm in...).

I guess it's all strategy. If I can't strengthen by ugrad GPA, my best bet is to make sure the other portions of my application are much, much, MUCH stronger. I'll be looking into other schools that aren't so top tier as well, but still have a strong global health component.

 

[sindadel]

You can always spend money applying. However, if your ugrad GPA is too low, then you will likely not make it to the point where a person READS your personal statement etc. And even if you do, there is someone with better grades, ECs and their own compelling story who looks like a better interview candidate.

If finances are a major issue for you now, then graduate, get a job, take one or two upper-division science classes a year while saving up money and getting amazing clinical experience. When you have your BCPM over 3.3, then apply. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[jbcarlso]

Just apply....you'll be fine

 

[hoya09]

Just apply....you'll be fine

Care to elaborate on this? The app process is expensive. We're not trying to be mean, we're trying to save the OP time and money.

I actually find this to be one of the more frustrating aspects of premed counseling. You get some people telling you it'll be fine and other people giving you constructive criticism... Ultimately it's your choice, but be aware that the odds aren't in your favor. I applied knowing this and I got lucky. Who knows? You might too... I mean, someone did take the time to make a compelling, evidence based case to that affect... 🙄 Where are the regular wamc posters anyway?

 

[streudels]

I have two quarters left before I graduate, but the classes I'm taking are not science-related and won't be raising my sGPA. I wonder if doing a post-bacc and taking some of the pre-med reqs I didn't do so well in would make any difference, or if I should take a job for a year, and earn enough cash to get into a reputable SMP the following year -- although I can think of doing better things with my time than try to take med school courses full-time just to prove that I'm smart enough to take it on in an actual med school. With the kind of economy we're in right now, fishing out $24,000+ to do just that for a year scares the **** out of me. Right now I'm trying to gauge the financial sacrifices I'm going to have to make, and if those are necessary, or if there are better alternatives to strengthen my app. Like win Time Magazine's Hero of the Year (just kidding).

It's funny when you think you've worked your butt off in college and think you have an amazing record (aside from the GPA) until you realize that everyone's just like you and even better (on paper). Where did all these years go, and what the hell was I doing?

Out of curiosity, hoya09, would you still pursue a PhD in linguistics or post-MD studies after you get your MD?

 

[hoya09]

It's funny when you think you've worked your butt off in college and think you have an amazing record (aside from the GPA) until you realize that everyone's just like you and even better (on paper). Where did all these years go, and what the hell was I doing?

I really feel you on this one. It's a terrible, humbling realization... As for post bacc or SMP, I'm not the best person to ask on that point. I think either would help (I know I said grad courses wouldn't do anything, but SMPs are different). I know that Gtown has one of the more respected SMPs. My fiance did it. They give you a lot of guidance into applying and some of the courses may transfer to whatever med school you attend. At least that way it doesn't feel like a complete waste of time. On the other hand, if you do a post bacc, the concensus around here seems to be that informal is better, meaning that you'd take science courses at a local college without registering in an official postbacc program. It's apparently cheaper to do that. Again, when comparing relative benefits, I'd suggest that you poke around here for people who've pursued these options themselves (try the nontrad forum).

Re the PhD question, I got accepted to MSU's MD program and their PhD in Linguistics. Theoretically that would make me an MD/PhD, but we're still working out the details. They've never had a social science MD/PhD (it's pretty rare overall) so there's a lot of logistic stuff to figure out. Thanks for asking. Again, best of luck