Curious about matching into Psych as a DO student.

[license43]

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[deleted407021]

Also interested in what current applicants and residents think!

 

[MADD!!!]

@Mad Jack

 

[GUH]

Increasingly "competitive" in that the number of applicants is higher but you can easily still match as a DO with average to below average grades and board scores, especially if you have no red flags and audition well.
As far as I've seen at my program, a course failure doesn't seem to torpedo an otherwise great applicant but a board failure likely will.

 

[Mad Jack]

Every year is increasingly more competitive. If you want to stay in a region like the Northeast, it will become increasingly hard to do so. Whereas I received responses to about half of my IM applications (a backup specialty I'm increasingly uncomfortable even ranking), I've only received responses to about 20% of my psych applications in the same region. It isn't impossible to match by any stretch, but you've got to be geographically flexible as the specialty heats up. Per the last charting outcomes, psychiatry had the second lowest overall percent matching of all specialties listed at 77%, a number that will likely continue to decline as time moves on.

 

[Daedra22]

Psych resident and DO here. I have not personally met with a lot of anti-DO bias, though my experiences from med school/residency/fellowship interviews were all in the south, midwest, and pacific northwest. I agree that psych appears to be getting more competitive across the board, but I think that a DO student with a strong application shouldn't find too much resistance based on the MD/DO difference (setting aside the other important academic qualifiers), at least in places I've been.

 

[hallowmann]

Psych is pretty DO friendly in general. You'll get more love in the midwest, and in all honesty, you'll probably get better programs inviting you per competition, because they struggle to attract as many competitive applicants to places like Ann Arbor... or Cincinnati... or Iowa City... or Indianapolis, etc. Many people I know matched successfully in the southwest and northeast though, so its certainly possible, you just have to apply more broadly.

 

[QueenJames]

Honestly... I'd look into what fields IMGs and caribbean students are getting into. A lot of them (many I know) are doing psych and IM. Like A LOT of them.

Their programs may not be top notch hospitals or offer quality training (what I am told by current 4th year Caribs) but...

If they can do it being US-IMGs... I don't think you will have a harder time doing so.

I would say just set up auditions to rotate at their hospital sites during 4th year and you should have a shot.

This is by no means an attempt to crap on Carib students but I think it is a fair strategy and hopefully offers some reassurance.

 

[Candidate2017]

Wondering how hard is it for a DO student to match into a psych residency? Of course a decent program not looking to go to Harvard or any top program....
Would decent board scores be fine?

Just curious how research, failed classes (not that I have any), low/mediocre board scores are for psych residencies.

Are they that competitive?

Thanks.

Getting into a solid psychiatry program is not competitive when it comes to scores or research. However it's harder to predict chances for psych based solely on scores and research. Psychiatry emphasizes social skills and likability. Much more than other specialties. I've seen ever so slightly awkward people with great scores not match because they were considered "weird". It's somewhat unfair but understandable. We have to form therapeutic alliances with the mentally ill and difficult personalities who are prone to misinterpreting or manipulating our communication. An awkward resident can trigger patient violence, med noncompliance/refusal, generate longer lengths of stay, piss off staff and make an attending's job harder. (That's also one of the cool things about psych... to see patients respond differntly to different psychiatrists. We are the scalpel, an actual instrument in our patients' healing.)

The most important thing by far is auditions: work hard, be well liked by attendings, residents, staff. Then interview well, apply broadly, emphasize geographical connections, express interest to your top programs.

 

[Candidate2017]

Honestly... I'd look into what fields IMGs and caribbean students are getting into. A lot of them (many I know) are doing psych and IM. Like A LOT of them.

Their programs may not be top notch hospitals or offer quality training (what I am told by current 4th year Caribs) but...

If they can do it being US-IMGs... I don't think you will have a harder time doing so.

I would say just set up auditions to rotate at their hospital sites during 4th year and you should have a shot.

This is by no means an attempt to crap on Carib students but I think it is a fair strategy and hopefully offers some reassurance.

Terrible strategy. A US grad probably won't have luck with these bottom of the barrel places. They are looking for desperate, beaten down people who they can beat down some more and don't mind terrible conditions and non-existent training.

 

[MADD!!!]

Terrible strategy. A US grad probably won't have luck with these bottom of the barrel places. They are looking for desperate, beaten down people who they can beat down some more and don't mind terrible conditions and non-existent training.

Ehh debatable. I know a few (2) residencies in the area that when you look at their residency page, it’s like 80-90% IMG and 10-20% DO’s. They both have applied for Osteopathic recognition as well, so it’s evident they want more US grads in their programs. Actually one of them (an IM program) used to accept 18 residents but now is reduced to 12 spots per year probably because it was just all IMG and they didn’t want to fund that.

 

[QueenJames]

Terrible strategy. A US grad probably won't have luck with these bottom of the barrel places. They are looking for desperate, beaten down people who they can beat down some more and don't mind terrible conditions and non-existent training.

My thing is when it comes down to it... unlike most of my med school compatriots that have location restrictions when it comes to residency.. I don't have any limitations. I'm willing to go anywhere... anytime... any hospital in any location possible when it comes down to residency... especially if it is a specialty that I am passionate about.

I'd rather take an IMG's spot at some middle of nowhere program that is considered "trash" by SDN's standards rather than not have a spot at all. I can and will make the most of my training. Not to be dramatic but my life growing up where I grew up... with the people I grew up with... to this point has always been about making the most of every situation no matter how dire it may seem.

Idk if it's right or wrong but that's just MY opinion.

 

[W19]

Every year is increasingly more competitive. If you want to stay in a region like the Northeast, it will become increasingly hard to do so. Whereas I received responses to about half of my IM applications (a backup specialty I'm increasingly uncomfortable even ranking), I've only received responses to about 20% of my psych applications in the same region. It isn't impossible to match by any stretch, but you've got to be geographically flexible as the specialty heats up. Per the last charting outcomes, psychiatry had the second lowest overall percent matching of all specialties listed at 77%, a number that will likely continue to decline as time moves on.

I feel like people in SDN still don't get that there aren't enough spots for all the the psych applicants out there. Last year, one person at my school has to scrambled into a preliminary surgery spot (the road to nowhere)... He thought he would be ok with 209 step1 and ~ 220 step2 because he applied to ~60 programs. I believe he had only 7 invites last year.

This year, he applies FM and has had 13 invites last time I talked to him in mid November...

 

[68PGunner]

I feel like people in SDN still don't get that there aren't enough spots for all the the psych applicants out there. Last year, one people at my school has to scrambled into a preliminary surgery spot (the road to nowhere)... He thought he would be ok with 209 step1 and ~ 220 step2 because he applied to ~60 programs. I believe he had only 7 invites last year.

This year, he applies FM and has had 13 invites last time I talked to him in mid November...

There were 4 unfilled psych spots last year. Why didn’t he apply to all programs if he wants psych that bad? That’s on him.

 

[W19]

There were 4 unfilled psych spots last year. Why didn’t he apply to all programs if he wants psych that bad? That’s on him.

He told me he did not think things would turn out like that. He thought psych was still easy to get in. People just don't realize even psych has a lower step 1 average it's not that easy for people whose step scores are <220 to match. There aren't enough spot for the growing number of applicants. On the other hand, one can easily match IM with very low step scores because there so many spot for not so many US student...

 

[ortnakas]

My theory based 100% on speculation:

Programs with relatively few spots but historically low competitiveness (like psych, PM&R) are good at sniffing out people who apply because it “should be easy to get in” versus people who apply who are more legitimately interested in the specialty.

Edit: typo

 

[MADD!!!]

I feel like people in SDN still don't get that there aren't enough spots for all the the psych applicants out there. Last year, one person at my school has to scrambled into a preliminary surgery spot (the road to nowhere)... He thought he would be ok with 209 step1 and ~ 220 step2 because he applied to ~60 programs. I believe he had only 7 invites last year.

This year, he applies FM and has had 13 invites last time I talked to him in mid November...

Well based on last year's stats: 935 US MD Applicants & 239 DO Applicants for 1,386 Psych Positions (ACGME). So there are still more spots than applicants in regards to US trained physicians only...

 

[68PGunner]

My theory based 100% on speculation:

Programs with relatively few spots but historically low competitiveness (like psych, PM&R) are good and sniffing out people who apply because it “should be easy to get in” versus people who apply who are more legitimately interested in the specialty.

Pretty much this. For example, I have heard that getting a LOR from an ortho doc is a red flag for PMR PDs considering that many sports people shoot for ortho and then use PMR as a backup. At the end of the day, PDs have pride in their fields and don’t want to see like they’re seconds to whatever specialty.

 

[68PGunner]

Well based on last year's stats: 935 US MD Applicants & 239 DO Applicants for 1,386 Psych Positions (ACGME). So there are still more spots than applicants in regards to US trained physicians only...

Honestly, the dude messes up thinking that he has any kind of leverage when it comes to specialty and geography especially w/ his Step scores. If I was in that dude position and a Psych or bust person, I would have applied to every programs in the country. Matched Psych applicants have an average of 220 Step 1. Therefore, the dude was already behind from the competition in the initial start.

 

[surfguy84]

Psych resident and DO here. I have not personally met with a lot of anti-DO bias, though my experiences from med school/residency/fellowship interviews were all in the south, midwest, and pacific northwest. I agree that psych appears to be getting more competitive across the board, but I think that a DO student with a strong application shouldn't find too much resistance based on the MD/DO difference (setting aside the other important academic qualifiers), at least in places I've been.

Also a DO, from California and would love to stay on West coast for residency. Any pac nw programs in particular you visited that would be friendly to a DO with low 240s step1? Familiar with any in California I'd have a good shot at?