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personally i wouldn't want to work for salary, if you can work hard you should go for private practice where you eat what you kill
with everything.. how much money do u bring in?
That is like asking a startup company how much money they're gonna make... The start is gonna be horrible and slow for new practitioners since no one knows them, but if they're good, likable, and starts developing a patient base, then income will start to increase. You won't make 500k+ on salary. This is totally based on your personality and preference on lifestyle, private practice may not be suitable for everyone but I know it's what I want to do.
Thanks OP for your post. I really feel being transparent with income, contracts is the way we can help future grads and the profession. Being transparent will allow others to make better decision and not accept the low ball offers that several of my friends have received.
Let's hope others feel that same way and actually answer the simple direct questions you ask. I'm still in residency, or else I would add to this.
Yeah I was hoping this would be a go to thread to post salaries ... but some are reluctant, but that is respectful too..
What are your residency salary for 1st,2nd etc years
How can places offer new pods 75K/year while others can offer 130K+? I would think that those places offering 75K would have no people applying unless its like on the beach of California.
It is always fun to look at the PMnews classifieds and see some jobs out there.@newfeet Was it easy find a job/job offers ? Is there a demand for podiatrist currently??
@newfeet Was it easy find a job/job offers ? Is there a demand for podiatrist currently??
It is always fun to look at the PMnews classifieds and see some jobs out there.
http://www.podiatrym.com/Classified_ads.cfm
Well said.You're focusing on the number and not what it takes to earn that or the circumstances of the person in question.
It could be a perfectly fine wage for someone who is enjoying what they are doing. It could be a terrible underpayment towards a person who is being taken advantage of (or perhaps letting themself be taken advantage of). It could be a person putting in their time and working towards a higher income future or partnership. It could be the best they could get in the area they wanted to live in. It could be something you fell into because you didn't bother looking for a job until April of your 3rd year of residency. There are many possibilities.
If you are the full $250K+ in debt than $120K isn't going to allow you to retire your debt on a rapid time table, but maybe you hope to get it forgiven or you just don't care and want to pay interest for 30 years. Maybe your spouse worked through school and paid the bills and $120K is great because you are frugal and mostly debt free.
When the time comes you'll have to decide for yourself what you are worth and you'll have to fight to get it. No one can force you to sign an employment contract. Control the things you can control to the best of your ability.
Are you at a particularly good program or with particularly good residents?Residents graduating my program are getting offers in the $200k range.
You can get these kinds of offers if you are willing to work in the middle of nowhere or the desert.
I'd be shocked if a podiatry resident was OFFERED this much money, their first year out, in a major metropolis where there are plenty of other MD/DO providers, who also perform foot and ankle surgery and can actually take call.
Key word "offered", not MAKING. I''m sure if you are busy enough and your contract includes incentives if you gross over a set value then it's most definitely common to earn over 200K your first year out. But OFFERS over 200K are few and far between unless you like living in Podunk, USA.
There are always exceptions to the rule. But that's what they are...exceptions. There are salaried positions at major hospitals. Which sounds nice but then they will probably be capped at a certain salary level...which is seen at the Kaiser hospitals in CA.
I was offered a position in middle of no where Southwest USA with a guaranteed salary of 240k. The salary was only guaranteed for 1 year.
I joined my current practice in 2009 as an associate making around $130k plus benefits and became a partner a year and a half later. This year I took a salary of $215k and with bonus will take home around $380k plus benefits.
ExperiencedDPM,Newankle, I'm new to this forum, but I've been around the block a few times, and have been involved with assessing practices. I don't know if you're a partner in a podiatric practice, orthopedic practice or multispecialty group. I do know that your numbers are not even close to reality for most of the students or residents reading this site. Very few practices that I've reviewed have had podiatrists even coming close to bringing in 380k PLUS benefits. I believe you, but hope you know and those reading know you are the exception and not the rule.
what part of the country are you located?
You can get these kinds of offers if you are willing to work in the middle of nowhere or the desert.
I'd be shocked if a podiatry resident was OFFERED this much money, their first year out, in a major metropolis where there are plenty of other MD/DO providers, who also perform foot and ankle surgery and can actually take call.
Key word "offered", not MAKING. I''m sure if you are busy enough and your contract includes incentives if you gross over a set value then it's most definitely common to earn over 200K your first year out. But OFFERS over 200K are few and far between unless you like living in Podunk, USA.
There are always exceptions to the rule. But that's what they are...exceptions. There are salaried positions at major hospitals. Which sounds nice but then they will probably be capped at a certain salary level...which is seen at the Kaiser hospitals in CA.
I would say I am at a top notch program (but hey, I'm biased).Are you at a particularly good program or with particularly good residents?
ExperiencedDPM,
Yes, you are 100 percent correct. My numbers are real but I am in the top 1 percent based on my production. I don't supervise a PA or CRNP and I don't have any other podiatrists working under me. I am an equal partner in one of the largest orthopaedic practices in the country. I don't do any wound care or chip and clip. We have everything in house like PT, DME, meds, etc and all partners share equally. My situation is unique and I am very fortunate. No young pod should expect these numbers - it is possible but rare. I have however seen podiatrists make money off other associates and make these numbers and more.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. In some areas, I didn't think a DPM could be a "true" partner in an MD/DO group. I also know several DPM's who work in a very large ortho group, probably also one of the largest in the nation, but the DPM's in that group do well financially, but don't do any surgery. They are utilized to feed the PT department, feed the orthotist, and of course feed surgical patients to the foot and ankle orthopods in the group. In your particular group, are you also performing surgical procedures?
It's been said here before by others, but I'll piggyback on those comments. Working for a large ortho or multi specialty group will allow a much larger starting salary in almost all instances, than working for a podiatric group. The reason is very simple. In order to start a new DPM at 250,000, he must produce at least 600 or 700,000 for it to be profitable. And those are very high numbers in the beginning. The ortho or multispecialty groups CAN afford this number, because the DPM isn't simply producing money by seeing patients in the office. He is producing money by referring to THEIR PT department, THEIR orthotist, THEIR MRI facility, THEIR surgical center, etc. So the money that's being generated by all these ancillary services owned by the practice, allows for higher salaries and bonuses. Most DPM practices don't own these ancillary services (with the exception of surgical centers), therefore can't afford to pay as much.
I dont know about other areas but in my area there is no problem with a DPM being a partner and this was researched as we have MD, DO, and DPM all partners. Ortho groups hiring podiatrists has become popular in my area. Initially they viewed podiatrists as competition then ortho groups realized that the ancillary income provided by podiatrists is worth it and that they help to capture more patients - one stop shopping. Unfortunately some ortho groups (mainly those who also have fellowship trained foot and ankle orthopods) will only hire nonsurgical podiatrists or those who deal with diabetic foot care/I&D's and hospital care. My situation is different. The majority of my practice is surgical. I do all the foot and ankle surgery for my group with the exception of a handful of ankle fractures and achilles ruptures that come in when I am away on vacation. I take "podiatry call" for the hospital just to be fair to the other podiatrists in town who also share call and to serve the community but all of the foot and ankle trauma that comes in through the ER when my group is on call gets splinted and sent to me in the office or one of my ortho partners will admit them to medicine and I'll see them as a consult. I get about half of all the trauma that comes in through the ER. My partners can do ankle fractures but honestly they dont want to deal with foot and ankle. Before I joined, my group had been looking for a foot and ankle orthopod with plans to eventually add a podiatrist in the future but the orthopods they interviewed wanted too much money and were not willing to share in general ortho call. I convinced them that I could do everything the foot and ankle orthopod could do (minus the call) at a fraction of the cost. They hired me as an associate and were pleased. I more than covered my expenses (they made money off of me) in the first 2 years and was offered partnership. I think I brought in around $540k to the practice in my first year and of course have increased that every year since then. My immediate group that I am a partner in is a large group and this group is part of a larger group we formed around 2 years ago. I also am a partner (have class A shares) in that larger group and last time I checked we had 135 physicians but that is always growing as we continue to add new groups. Being in a large group like this affords many opportunities we otherwise wouldn't have. We are leading the movement in collecting data on surgical outcomes/quality measures and satisfaction surveys to present to insurance companies to prove that we are best at providing quality service and what that cost is. This is where healthcare is going. It has been seen already that physician-owned groups do a better job at delivering healthcare at a lower cost thanhospital owned groups (which is our competition). We can negotiate better reimbursements because of our size. We can buy things in bulk like DME and EMR and everything else. We can self-insure ourselves so we own the malpractice and professional liability insurance company.
@newankle @MarquetteGuy Following up from Podasaurus' question, did either of you attend a specific residency or fellowship that helped you land these jobs or was just your general podiatric training enough for them to take y'all on board?
Thank you!I went to a very highly surgical, very well-known residency program that had strong affiliations with numerous general orthos and foot and ankle ortho who were very involved attendings in my program, along with many well-known, very well-qualified DPM attendings. Working extensively with a foot and ankle ortho was a huge component in me obtaining my position in a large orthopaedic group. This was quite persuasive in my personal experience, and it certainly had a large impact on my training. The connections gleaned from this mixed exposure during training can prove to be invaluable during the job search. I hope this helps.
This thread is gold. Nice to see people talking in a civil fashion about salaries and answering questions. I've learned a lot already. Usually threads like these don't turn out so hot
I dont know about other areas but in my area there is no problem with a DPM being a partner and this was researched as we have MD, DO, and DPM all partners. Ortho groups hiring podiatrists has become popular in my area. Initially they viewed podiatrists as competition then ortho groups realized that the ancillary income provided by podiatrists is worth it and that they help to capture more patients - one stop shopping. Unfortunately some ortho groups (mainly those who also have fellowship trained foot and ankle orthopods) will only hire nonsurgical podiatrists or those who deal with diabetic foot care/I&D's and hospital care. My situation is different. The majority of my practice is surgical. I do all the foot and ankle surgery for my group with the exception of a handful of ankle fractures and achilles ruptures that come in when I am away on vacation. I take "podiatry call" for the hospital just to be fair to the other podiatrists in town who also share call and to serve the community but all of the foot and ankle trauma that comes in through the ER when my group is on call gets splinted and sent to me in the office or one of my ortho partners will admit them to medicine and I'll see them as a consult. I get about half of all the trauma that comes in through the ER. My partners can do ankle fractures but honestly they dont want to deal with foot and ankle. Before I joined, my group had been looking for a foot and ankle orthopod with plans to eventually add a podiatrist in the future but the orthopods they interviewed wanted too much money and were not willing to share in general ortho call. I convinced them that I could do everything the foot and ankle orthopod could do (minus the call) at a fraction of the cost. They hired me as an associate and were pleased. I more than covered my expenses (they made money off of me) in the first 2 years and was offered partnership. I think I brought in around $540k to the practice in my first year and of course have increased that every year since then. My immediate group that I am a partner in is a large group and this group is part of a larger group we formed around 2 years ago. I also am a partner (have class A shares) in that larger group and last time I checked we had 135 physicians but that is always growing as we continue to add new groups. Being in a large group like this affords many opportunities we otherwise wouldn't have. We are leading the movement in collecting data on surgical outcomes/quality measures and satisfaction surveys to present to insurance companies to prove that we are best at providing quality service and what that cost is. This is where healthcare is going. It has been seen already that physician-owned groups do a better job at delivering healthcare at a lower cost thanhospital owned groups (which is our competition). We can negotiate better reimbursements because of our size. We can buy things in bulk like DME and EMR and everything else. We can self-insure ourselves so we own the malpractice and professional liability insurance company.
@newankle @MarquetteGuy Following up from Podasaurus' question, did either of you attend a specific residency or fellowship that helped you land these jobs or was just your general podiatric training enough for them to take y'all on board?
Great info! I, and I'm sure lots of other people on here, appreciate it.I attended a well known residency with well known attendings. It has historically been well regarded and I knew that's where I wanted to be from my first year in podiatry school. Fellowships were just beginning when I finished my residency and considering how long my residency was I didn't feel I needed any more training. Orthopods generally don't know anything about podiatry residencies but if you trained at the same institution as them that helps and if you have an orthopod speak well of you, that is probably the most important so I think fellowships that have ortho attendings are important if you want to land a position with an ortho practice actually performing surgery. The goal should be to eventually become a partner but that is rare. Without partnership there is no job security and sometimes these "ortho practices" hiring podiatrists are actually hospital owned and can replace whomever whenever.