Current Status WAMC

[Neuroscifan]

Hello everyone,

I'm starting to get nervous as to my chances for acceptance this cycle.

My stats are as follows:

ORM
4.0 GPA
526 MCAT
1000 hours of research, no pubs.
2000 hours+ of leadership through tutoring, Teaching Assistant.
300+ hours of volunteer work through caregiving for a disabled friend and being on the board of a small non-profit organization
300 current hours and 500 scheduled future hours of medical-related work experience being a caregiver at an assisted living facility for people with advanced dementia and TBI.
40 hours of shadowing in the OR and clinics of two different neurosurgeons pre-pandemic. No luck post-pandemic.

I delayed submitting my primary application until mid-July because I was hoping to get some more shadowing experience and was waiting to find out whether or not I got the job at the assisted living facility. Once I submitted my app, it took a while for it to be verified, etc. My secondaries started rolling in and I got half done by labor day, half the week after. The biggest issue was one letter of rec.

The professor is my undergrad mentor. They helped me get research experience that was key in securing a fantastic internship, and he personally taught me a lot of the skills that helped me make a good impression on the head of the lab that I worked in who I worked closely with and who wrote me a letter of rec as well. Beyond that, this professor I have viewed as a close personal mentor and role-model and have developed a personal relationship over the last 3 years. They even gave me an old high chair and a little rocking chair they had in their garage for my infant daughter to use. I asked this professor if they would be willing to write me a solid letter back in March, to which they graciously agreed. I kept in contact with them and worked as a TA for their classes for the next semester. Once the pandemic hit and everything was pushed off-campus, the professor (who has historically been difficult to contact through email) stopped responding to a lot of my communications. I sent the AMCAS letter forms and didn't hear back from them despite repeated friendly reminders and personal updates about my life and my daughter. In late September, at the start of the new semester that was back on campus, I met with them in their office and they told me they wrote me a great letter and had submitted it ages ago. Apparently due to some clerical error with transferring things from their office on campus to their home setup my letter was left behind and never submitted. Finally, on September 30 the letter was submitted.

Because of the lateness of the letter being received by the schools, none of them had began processing my secondaries until then. I've given up nearly all hope at any interview invitations at any public schools or schools that do rolling admissions. My school list is about half-composed of T20 schools that don't do rolling admissions, and I have been confident that I will still be receiving II as the season grows later, but so far I have been put on hold by one T10 school, and have been rejected (no surprise) by two state schools. I have gotten one invitation to interview by one of my top choices, and interview this week, but am worried that my hopes of admission this cycle are slim outside this one prospect.

I have a solid backup plan if I don't get in this cycle. I haven't taken a gap year yet, and I have a standing invitation to work for pay at the lab that I did research in for as long a term as I am able to. I'll take up that offer and work at the lab conducting research if the offer still stands come April when I'll know for sure if I don't get any acceptances.

What are my chances that the schools that don't do rolling admissions will still throw me a bone and offer an interview? Several claim to do no rolling admissions and each applicant has an equal chance at acceptance regardless of the date of submission of the secondary application, but thinking about the logistics of that, I'm concerned that that's a soft guarantee, seeing as it's not practical to have infinite interview slots.

I've never been this nervous and would be pretty bummed if I didn't get any more II's this cycle. I'm trying not to dwell on it too much and just continue building my application should the backup plan be necessary, but the later it gets, the more anxiety I start to feel.

Thanks in advance.

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[Mr.Smile12]

1) Do you know which schools don't do rolling admissions? Have you connected with them prior to applying? Have you talked to students prior to applying about the lack of clinical experience in your profile relative to other applicants (which 300 isn't bad, but for a "top tier" school, I don't know if you're "average" or "below average").

2) The timing of your letters is not a huge deal, but it depends on how the schools on your list wish to handle them. I think many schools would push forward with reviewing your application even if all the letters have not been received as it sometimes is important post-interview (but some want everything pre-interview). If your schools on your list don't do rolling admissions, chances are they don't look at your file until all your letters are in, but you should find out.

3) If being a TA/tutor is your 2000+ hours of leadership, that's great but doesn't really sell me. Tons of premeds do tutoring, just as a ton of premeds do research. Having that be your sole source of citing leadership skills is not compelling for me as a screener to move your application above others who have demonstrated their leadership skills development.

4) I would need more information about being a caregiver. Is this a volunteer role or paid role? What training and supervision is there? Do you do anything clinical or do you just sit and listen?

 

[Faha]

Which schools did you apply to and where is your interview ?

 

[Neuroscifan]

1) Do you know which schools don't do rolling admissions? Have you connected with them prior to applying? Have you talked to students prior to applying about the lack of clinical experience in your profile relative to other applicants (which 300 isn't bad, but for a "top tier" school, I don't know if you're "average" or "below average").

2) The timing of your letters is not a huge deal, but it depends on how the schools on your list wish to handle them. I think many schools would push forward with reviewing your application even if all the letters have not been received as it sometimes is important post-interview (but some want everything pre-interview). If your schools on your list don't do rolling admissions, chances are they don't look at your file until all your letters are in, but you should find out.

3) If being a TA/tutor is your 2000+ hours of leadership, that's great but doesn't really sell me. Tons of premeds do tutoring, just as a ton of premeds do research. Having that be your sole source of citing leadership skills is not compelling for me as a screener to move your application above others who have demonstrated their leadership skills development.

4) I would need more information about being a caregiver. Is this a volunteer role or paid role? What training and supervision is there? Do you do anything clinical or do you just sit and listen?

I’ve spoken with students and advisors about the clinical experience, and they have all assured me that 800 hours is highly competitive at any MD program. They don’t have a distinction in the primary for current vs future planned hours for currently held positions, so I was told I should just put the total of my scheduled hours in my primary with the start and end dates, as well as the weekly hours in the description. Our campus advisor gives 300 hours as the mark for being competitive at any given school. Outside of the advising and mentor advice I’ve received, I don’t know what the specifics are. If I don’t get in this cycle, that will give me an entire year to continue working on the clinical exposure experiences. I hope to diversify my experiences as well if I don’t make it this cycle.

I didn’t receive a single correspondence confirming my secondary application being received and begun processing until the day that my letter was sent through AMCAS, which is why I’ve been concerned. Would it be appropriate to reach out to the schools individually? I’ve been hesitant to do that, and the schools that I have reached out to have not responded to any of my inquiries.

As for leadership, I put down my work on the board of the non-profit organization under leadership on my primary. I’m hopeful that the consistent involvement in being teaching assistants throughout my 3 years of undergraduate demonstrates dedication. As far as for future cycles, do you have any advice as to what experiences I should look for in order to bolster up that potential weak point in my application?

The caregiver position is taking care of all the needs of the residents, which includes taking vitals, doing a brief physical exam after residents fall, and passing medications as well as the typical hygiene care and cleaning. That’s the paid position. The training I’ve received is med delegation, cpr, and first aid. There is little to no supervision during my shifts, as I work nights. There is an on-call nurse and an on-call manager that I call when things happen that are beyond my training.

 

[Neuroscifan]

Which schools did you apply to and where is your interview ?

My interview is at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. I applied to Baylor, Harvard, Mayo, Hopkins, Washington St. Louis, OHSU (IS), UCLA, UW, UCSF, Stanford, Minnesota, Yale, Columbia, Perelman, and NYU grossman.
UCLA declined to interview me, and UW declined to send me a secondary. I was put on hold at Mayo a week or two before my last letter was sent in.

 

[Faha]

My interview is at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. I applied to Baylor, Harvard, Mayo, Hopkins, Washington St. Louis, OHSU (IS), UCLA, UW, UCSF, Stanford, Minnesota, Yale, Columbia, Perelman, and NYU grossman.
UCLA declined to interview me, and UW declined to send me a secondary. I was put on hold at Mayo a week or two before my last letter was sent in.

I would be very surprised if you did not receive an interview at Washington St. Louis with your stats. You could also receive interviews from other schools on your list.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I’ve spoken with students and advisors about the clinical experience, and they have all assured me that 800 hours is highly competitive at any MD program. They don’t have a distinction in the primary for current vs future planned hours for currently held positions, so I was told I should just put the total of my scheduled hours in my primary with the start and end dates, as well as the weekly hours in the description. Our campus advisor gives 300 hours as the mark for being competitive at any given school. Outside of the advising and mentor advice I’ve received, I don’t know what the specifics are. If I don’t get in this cycle, that will give me an entire year to continue working on the clinical exposure experiences. I hope to diversify my experiences as well if I don’t make it this cycle.

I didn’t receive a single correspondence confirming my secondary application being received and begun processing until the day that my letter was sent through AMCAS, which is why I’ve been concerned. Would it be appropriate to reach out to the schools individually? I’ve been hesitant to do that, and the schools that I have reached out to have not responded to any of my inquiries. ...

It's always interesting to see how my peers in advising mark the mileposts for what constitutes a competitive application vis a vis experience hours. It's just as interesting to know how "competitive" definitions vary so much among medical schools. Suffice to say I have my idea of a minimum threshold, but that does not parlay into a "competitive" application for everyone.

I think it is customary for schools to send acknowledgements receiving your application from AMCAS and your secondary application. It's pretty automatic at the schools where I have worked. There's a reason why we tell everyone ahead of time to check your spam/junk folder diligently and green-light all emails from the application service and your schools. That said, I always wonder why the emails that say "we withdrew your application due to a lack of response" never get sent to junk mail.

 

[Neuroscifan]

It's always interesting to see how my peers in advising mark the mileposts for what constitutes a competitive application vis a vis experience hours. It's just as interesting to know how "competitive" definitions vary so much among medical schools. Suffice to say I have my idea of a minimum threshold, but that does not parlay into a "competitive" application for everyone.

I think it is customary for schools to send acknowledgements receiving your application from AMCAS and your secondary application. It's pretty automatic at the schools where I have worked. There's a reason why we tell everyone ahead of time to check your spam/junk folder diligently and green-light all emails from the application service and your schools. That said, I always wonder why the emails that say "we withdrew your application due to a lack of response" never get sent to junk mail.

I have been paranoid that I’ve gotten emails sent straight to the spam folder, but I’ve been checking diligently. Fortunately I haven’t missed any communications. The UC schools I applied to didn’t send a secondary my way until after my letter was received. I’m not sure if that’s the way they do it routinely, or if their preliminary screening just timed itself out to be that way.
The minimum and competitive thresholds are confusing often, since different schools require or focus on different amounts of each portion of the application.