Current veterinary student thinking of switching to human med

[john4344]

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Hi guys,

I'm so sorry if this has been asked before - I couldn't find much on the site. ANYWAYS, I'm currently a first year veterinary student. I have never wanted to practice medicine in a traditional sense, but I thought vet school was an appropriate avenue to public health and zoonoses and pathology ect.

I sort of hedged all my bets, and went into this program with the mindset that if I was going to do this, I would do the army scholarship. I am a competitive applicant, but ended up being waitlisted for the program (in vet school, it's a 4 year not a 3 year scholarship). It's doubtful that someone would drop the scholarship, so I'm playing this as I didn't get the scholarship.

I am an out of state student and looking at 300K loans without this scholarship. I did not apply to my in state school due to ongoing family issues that would have detracted from my studies should I have stayed somewhere where I was able to go home all of the time. It's a rather complex situation.

I didn't originally apply to med school for a number of reasons - the main one being I didn't think I could cut it. I didn't have AMAZING grades in undergrad (see: family issues) but now I'm finding veterinary school to be a piece of cake and my grades are fantastic. My interests are zoonoses, public health and dead stuff (people or animals) so I feel like and MD may be a valid option

I like my program, but I don't particularly enjoy my fellow students and the curriculums drive towards clinical medicine only. The job prospects are concerning to me. And at this point, I wonder if I am better off trying for a MD-MPH. I realize there will be loans involved there, but I feel that the earning potential, and other career avenues may be better than is available for a DVM.

So, in short, has anyone "transferred" (I realize no credits would actually transfer) from a DVM to MD program?

Thanks and sorry for the novel. I'm just feeling a bit lost

 

[mimelim]

No medical school will take a veterinary school student as a transfer. If you are interested in becoming a physician, you will have to apply, like everyone else. Take the MCAT, fulfill the prerequisites, etc.

 

[john4344]

No medical school will take a veterinary school student as a transfer. If you are interested in becoming a physician, you will have to apply, like everyone else. Take the MCAT, fulfill the prerequisites, etc.

"So, in short, has anyone "transferred" (I realize no credits would actually transfer) from a DVM to MD program?"

Thank you, I am aware that I would need to apply like a normal person. I guess what I am asking is if anyone has switched directions and left vet med and gone to a MD program and what their experience was like.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

I go to a med school that is heavily affiliated with a vet school. I've never met a vet student who thought of switching to human med, and vice versa. Your interests are unique in that they can be pursued by multiple routes: MD, DVM, or MPH.

If you don't like clinical medicine though, med school won't help you. You'll likely be miserable actually since you will be expected to see lots of patients.

I say it looks better to finish what you started. Get your DVM and go from there.

Why not just finish your DVM and pursue an MPH or veterinary pathology?

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

"So, in short, has anyone "transferred" (I realize no credits would actually transfer) from a DVM to MD program?"

Thank you, I am aware that I would need to apply like a normal person. I guess what I am asking is if anyone has switched directions and left vet med and gone to a MD program and what their experience was like.

I graduated in 1992 from veterinary school and we had a classmate who switched to med school after 2 years. She came from an MD family so I guess someone talked some sense into her. Also in the class who graduated in 1991, a graduate went on to medical school without practicing any I believe. Any change to any human medical field like physician, nurse, physician assistant where you will be dealing with patients day to day generally require at least a thousand hours of some form in dealing with patients. My wife and I both looked into this as a way to leave the sinking ship that is veterinary medicine. However, if interested in military, there is the Uniformed Services Med School where you can graduate debt free but owing about ten yrs to Uncle Sam. A debt of 300k in vet medicine will probably never be paid off especially if just working in general practice and there is less opportunity in vet med for real training in pathology or other fields. I would see even being a human pathology more rewarding professionally and financially than vet pathology which was my favorite and easiest subject.

 

[john4344]

I go to a med school that is heavily affiliated with a vet school. I've never met a vet student who thought of switching to human med, and vice versa. Your interests are unique in that they can be pursued by multiple routes: MD, DVM, or MPH.

If you don't like clinical medicine though, med school won't help you. You'll likely be miserable actually since you will be expected to see lots of patients.

I say it looks better to finish what you started. Get your DVM and go from there.

Why not just finish your DVM and pursue an MPH or veterinary pathology?

The big thing is the cost of the degree compared to salary. At least with the MD, if I can't find a career in public health to my liking, I have the option of being a ME which does appeal to me. Yes, veterinary pathology is an option, but is the salary enough to offset the loans I have? I'm not sure and I don't want to be in a position where I have to stay at a vet school or in academia to survive.

The other thing with the MPH, is that that is another 20-50K on top of everything.

Again, my big concern, is the loan to job outlook with the DVM. Again, I realize the MD accrues loans as well, but at the very least you have more of a chance of paying them back. Additionally, some schools cover the cost of the MPH and some of y'all have like merit based scholarships.

 

[JeffWasHere]

I would strongly recommend getting an MPH. You don't really need to get an MD for the interests that you have. During your MPH, you will be exposed to many different opportunities to work in public health, infectious disease, and zoonoses. I think the type of jobs that you would get from an MPH are much more what you are looking for. It's also a lot more affordable than vet school or medical school.

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

Why not just finish your DVM and pursue an MPH or veterinary pathology?

Pursuing these options still will keep any vet in a lifetime of debt. DVMs with MPH make little extra to pay for the degree. There are not enough residencies in vet path to make it worthwhile to take that chance and every vet school would require a PHD for employment - more years of getting deeper in debt for jobs that likely pay less than a human Family Practitioner or nurse anesthetist.

 

[Atom612]

If you truly are interested in human medicine, then you'll likely have to start from the bottom and work your way up just like any other non-traditional applicant interested in an occupation change. You're current GPA and performance in veterinary school will likely have little to no bearing on your medical school application, so depending on your stats (you haven't posted any, so can't say either way) you may have to complete a post-bac to improve your GPA and complete the necessary pre-reqs. Score well on the MCAT, make sure to have enough shadowing/volunteering/clinical experience in human medicine that demonstrates you know what you're getting yourself into, and be sufficiently able to justify your reasoning for making the switch from veterinary to human medicine and you should be good to go.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

The big thing is the cost of the degree compared to salary. At least with the MD, if I can't find a career in public health to my liking, I have the option of being a ME which does appeal to me. Yes, veterinary pathology is an option, but is the salary enough to offset the loans I have? I'm not sure and I don't want to be in a position where I have to stay at a vet school or in academia to survive.

The other thing with the MPH, is that that is another 20-50K on top of everything.

Again, my big concern, is the loan to job outlook with the DVM. Again, I realize the MD accrues loans as well, but at the very least you have more of a chance of paying them back. Additionally, some schools cover the cost of the MPH and some of y'all have like merit based scholarships.

Let's assume you go to medical school (4 years):
Chances are you'll pay out-of-state tuition since you don't want to go to your local school.

It will be 3 years of CLINICAL MEDICINE, which you told me you don't like, before you get to 4th year and get to do pathology rotations.

You would have to go to pathology residency, which is 3-4 years, and would require more years to specialize in forensics. The pathology job market is not doing well right now (as per the path sub-forums on this website).

The median salary of a ME is $49,000. Correct me if I'm wrong, you can't believe everything you see on the internet. Plus there are only so many ME jobs out there. I imagine the turnover is abysmal and you would have to wait years to find the right job, or have to settle for a job in a place you won't want to live.

ALL OF THIS, or you finish your DVM or take 2 years and get an MPH.

Finish what you started. Get your DVM.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

Another option, have you thought about applying for an MPH school and just dropping out of vet school? This could save you a lot of loan debt as well.

I just don't think getting an MD would fit your interests since you don't have interests in clinical medicine.

 

[john4344]

If you truly are interested in human medicine, then you'll likely have to start from the bottom and work your way up just like any other non-traditional applicant interested in an occupation change. You're current GPA and performance in veterinary school will likely have little to no bearing on your medical school application, so depending on your stats (you haven't posted any, so can't say either way) you may have to complete a post-bac to improve your GPA and complete the necessary pre-reqs. Score well on the MCAT, make sure to have enough shadowing/volunteering/clinical experience in human medicine that demonstrates you know what you're getting yourself into, and be sufficiently able to justify your reasoning for making the switch from veterinary to human medicine and you should be good to go.

Can you elaborate on why my vet school grades would not count for a MD application?

 

[Atom612]

I'm not an adcom, but as I understand it how you do in the basic sciences as an undergrad gives medical schools an idea of how you could handle their curriculum. This is why doing well in an SMP is advised for those with sub-par GPAs, because the curriculum mirrors that of the first year of medical school. If you consistently perform well throughout the SMP, chances are good you would likewise perform similarly in their medical program. Your current GPA is a statement for how well you can handle veterinary school curriculum, but says little about how you would fare at an MD program. There's also the fact that you're still a first-year. Unlike other graduate programs that are 1-2 years long, you still have 3+ years to go. A single year of performing well in a four-year veterinary program doesn't really tell adcoms that you have what it takes to make it in their MD program, especially since your GPA wasn't all that great during your undergrad. That's not to say you're current performance won't count at all, it just probably wouldn't be convincing enough to overcome a poor undergrad GPA.

I could be totally wrong, but if you're serious about the change you should prepare yourself to do whatever is necessary to prove that you would make a competitive applicant.

 

[DocWinter]

Keep on your track. Patients who cant talk are a blessing.

In response to your above question, it's because medical schools have a tried and true criteria. It's your undergrad gpa with focus on science courses and your MCAT.
Nothing else is going to validate you as a competitive applicant. People with law degrees, MPHs, certificates all go through the same vetting process.

In short, vet school GPA doesn't tell medical schools squat about what they need to know about you

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

Another alternative is to quit vet school and go into an allied health field like medical laboratory science where in addition to getting a useful degree, you are getting exposure to the basic medical sciences being applied to human beings, just in a specialized way. You will be able to get some experience in working with patients through phlebotomy but if you find you do not like that aspect you can stay in the lab sciences/diagnostic sciences. Veterinary medicine is not getting better anytime soon with the debt and increasing classes faster than demand warrants.

 

[Rekt]

Another alternative is to quit vet school and go into an allied health field like medical laboratory science where in addition to getting a useful degree, you are getting exposure to the basic medical sciences being applied to human beings, just in a specialized way. You will be able to get some experience in working with patients through phlebotomy but if you find you do not like that aspect you can stay in the lab sciences/diagnostic sciences. Veterinary medicine is not getting better anytime soon with the debt and increasing classes faster than demand warrants.

Agree. The OP should drop out of Vet school. My medical school has a Vet school and I'm guessing there's more than 100 people per class. It just blows my mind that those people will be >300k in debt with poor job prospects with even lower pay. It doesn't even sound like you want to do it that much, which should be the only reason to become a slave to the debt.

 

[sovereign0]

My interests are zoonoses, public health and dead stuff (people or animals) so I feel like and MD may be a valid option

Judging from the vibe of your post and what your interests are, I'm not sure that medical school is the best way to pursue your interests, especially considering the time, money, and effort necessary to get to a point where you can do so. Not to mention that the time and effort you spend getting into medical school and finishing it would all be spent almost exclusively on stuff you aren't interested in. You'd have to show interest in human clinical medicine to accumulate the ECs to get into med school, and then interact with patients on a personal level for increasing amounts of time in medical school. Only after starting residency would you get to focus your interests.

 

[gyngyn]

Can you elaborate on why my vet school grades would not count for a MD application?

Neither graduate nor professional school grades are an important part of the analysis of academic strength at MD schools. DO schools apparently view this differently.

 

[Wjldenver]

Vet school simply has a poor ROI. At the Colorado State Vet school they even have a financial planner on staff to help students make good choices when managing their debt. Recent statistics from Colorado State indicate that the average vet graduates with $141,000 of debt and new vets make on average $69,500. You can do much better in Med school, but of course the standards for admission are much higher as well.



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[kraskadva]

The pathology job market is not doing well right now (as per the path sub-forums on this website).
The median salary of a ME is $49,000. Correct me if I'm wrong, you can't believe everything you see on the internet. Plus there are only so many ME jobs out there. I imagine the turnover is abysmal and you would have to wait years to find the right job, or have to settle for a job in a place you won't want to live.

Untrue.
The median salary of a coroner is ~$49,000, which is an elected position and a job that typically only requires a Bachelors Degree.
The median salary of a Medical Examiner, which is a physician job, is ~$191,000 according to here. Another site gives the average salary as ~$299,000. I'd guess 200K is more realistic.
But whichever of those numbers you'd like to put more or less faith in, there's not a full time physician job in the US that pays under $150K/yr.
And despite the doom and gloom in the Path forum, forensics is actually an expanding field (albeit slowly). If you actually read over there, the complaints are centered around regular path jobs going to the mass diagnostic centers. If you dig through a bit, you'll find the few forensic path posters and none of them have the same complaints.

To the OP - if you hate vet school, then dropping out would be sensible. But if you don't hate it, just dislike the clinical focus, why not plug through a little longer and see if it grows on you. It would take time and energy (and a very coherent and convincing story about why you're switching) to apply and get into med school. And then you'd have to go through much of the same stuff that you already say you don't like before you would be in a spot to do pathology or public health. I'd say take the time to really think it over before making the leap.
And if you choose to go that path and do get into med school, HPSP money is easier to come by (judging by the recruitment emails and phone calls I'm getting on the regular)

 

[Doctor-S]

First: I noticed this is your first post. So, welcome to SDN! 🙂

Second: Do you have strong/well-considered reasons for believing that you would enjoy human medicine or public health more than veterinary medicine? I realize you're looking for individuals who have withdrawn from a DVM program (to pursue an MD program), but that might not be useful for the reasons set forth below.

Based on your post (and given that I don't know anything else about you), it doesn't sound as if you're currently motivated to study human medicine or veterinary medicine. I may be wrong, and if I am wrong - very sorry. Although you mentioned interests related to "zoonoses, public health, and dead stuff (people or animals)" it doesn't sound as if you're committed to veterinary medicine, public health, or human medicine, at this time. Instead, you mentioned that you're "feeling a bit lost."

With that in mind, I was wondering: have you shadowed MDs? Have you participated in meaningful activities featuring direct human care? Have you had a chance to explore public health work? If yes, did you like these things? I mean, did you really like any of them - and can you visualize yourself being an MD or an MPH for the next 30-50 years of your life? Similarly, have you consulted with a vet med counselor to discuss your concerns, reservations, thoughts and feelings about becoming a veterinarian? I'm just wondering if you've given yourself a fair opportunity to think about "what" you want to do (or not want to do); and if you've given yourself sufficient time to sort-out your thoughts, aspirations, motivations and goals (including important issues related to your quality of life, family issues, personal happiness, career satisfaction, future employment, earning potential, etc.).

Third: If you're feeling uncertain/conflicted about pursuing a veterinary medicine career, have you considered applying for a temporary leave of absence from your veterinary medicine school? Maybe you need some time to figure out if you really want to pursue a career in veterinary medicine or if you want to pursue something else (e.g, MD, MPH, or whatever). In summary, not every medical student becomes a physician; and not every veterinary medicine student becomes a veterinarian. Just saying ... and I truly wish you well. 🙂

 

[Goro]

One of the major roadblocks you will face, even on top of your stated interests, is the fact that you're running away FROM veterinary medicine, instead of running TO Medicine.

H

So, in short, has anyone "transferred" (I realize no credits would actually transfer) from a DVM to MD program?

Thanks and sorry for the novel. I'm just feeling a bit lost